Dante without Tomes mods?

[.LeiA._]

Do you folks reckon that Dante will be okay without Tome mods? I'm frickin sick of doing Munio over and over again. All I have are Mandonel parts and 2 Khra Canticle mods.

[0_The_F00l]

It should be ok , but without testing it, it will be difficult to tell for certain.

And since it's exalted , how the mods that need you to have it active will work is also questionable.

You would lose quite a bit of support (thanks to the mods).

 

[.LeiA._]

15 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

And since it's exalted , how the mods that need you to have it active will work is also questionable.

You would lose quite a bit of support (thanks to the mods).

 

Yeah, especially the Invocation mods that buff stats. Wanted to buy if I desperate enough, but the market price for the set is like 200p-ish if I remember it correctly. Argh.

[Pakaku]

I modded my Grimoire just fine without tome mods, I can imagine this one will be no different

[CosoMalvadoNG]

it's just a exalted weapon.  If the damage of the abilities requires modifying the damage of the tome, then possibly i not even use the tome mods in the first place.

In any case, if you put pure tome mods on the Exalted weapon when you use the weapon, you will not do any damage with it.

Edited March 21 by CosoMalvadoNG

[Circle_of_Psi]

3 hours ago, .LeiA._ said:

Yeah, especially the Invocation mods that buff stats. Wanted to buy if I desperate enough, but the market price for the set is like 200p-ish if I remember it correctly. Argh.

Yup, some of the  Invocation mods do look quite nice and I've just gone ahead and checked for you, it's not 200p, it's 140p, so a lot cheaper then then I remembered  but I already got myself the pack out of random, since I know that (hopefully) Dante's weapon will be quite strong since the numbers on the dev stream showed promising numbers 

Edited March 21 by Circle_of_Psi

[-ShadowRadiance-]

Personally il be running one tome mod only.  Dont recall the name or effect and im to lazy to look it up.

Il be modding dantes exalted for toxin and fire rate paired with 2d green sharss and archon cont anyway.

[Circle_of_Psi]

31 minutes ago, -ShadowRadiance- said:

Personally il be running one tome mod only.  Dont recall the name or effect and im to lazy to look it up.

Il be modding dantes exalted for toxin and fire rate paired with 2d green sharss and archon cont anyway.

Since the main damage is Slash, do you think Viral will be better here?

[quxier]

Most of stats can be few times than tome mods so it shouldn't be too much waste. There is armor/shield stripping one but it's weak (for low enemy count). You need 20 enemies to fully armor strip enemy(ies).

[Stormandreas]

Honestly I'd just save up some plat and get the tome mods from the market.

I don't see Dantes tome as being amazing in terms of damage. It's very much a support tool just like the Grimoire, with some extra Crit and being Slash based, which is alright.
30% CC, 2x CD, 20% SC, 1.5 Fire rate and 200 base slash on primary fire, so it's essentially a slash based, slower Snipetron Vandal with some extra CC and SC.
Given it's a secondary, it wont get Hunter Munitions, so wont be able to double up slash procs quickly, and we don't really know what it's Alt fire is like either though.

[Circle_of_Psi]

54 minutes ago, Stormandreas said:

Honestly I'd just save up some plat and get the tome mods from the market.

I don't see Dantes tome as being amazing in terms of damage. It's very much a support tool just like the Grimoire, with some extra Crit and being Slash based, which is alright.
30% CC, 2x CD, 20% SC, 1.5 Fire rate and 200 base slash on primary fire, so it's essentially a slash based, slower Snipetron Vandal with some extra CC and SC.
Given it's a secondary, it wont get Hunter Munitions, so wont be able to double up slash procs quickly, and we don't really know what it's Alt fire is like either though.

Dante's tomb looks much stronger than the trash-tier Grimoire that we have now with what I can see from the Devstream and while yes it is a Dev Build we'll have to take it with a grind of salt, as they say.

Reasons why I think this way?:

1. The Exalted Tomb was only level 12 when it was shown in the Devstream and when Reb switched her mod-set up, we did see the base stats you listed here, so it's tough to say how much the final stats will have at level 30.
2. When Reb had the basic tier Mod set up (Hornet Strike/ Lethal Torrent & Pistol Gambit) the stats were not as great but is already vastly better than the current tome weapon since 1,728 total damage (from Slash) isn't anything to sneeze at but like-wise to the first point, it's tough to say how much the final stats will have at level 30.

 

So it's quite early to tell how strong this weapon will be but the problem here is that, if his Tomb weapon is as terrible or worse than the Grimoire, Dante will be DoA (or at least his 1st power) and it'll just be a free slot for whatever power people desire and I think DE try to avoid doing this.

 

The Grimoire is so trash because of the low DPS and it's stuck with the worst damage in the game Electricity Status, it's MR fodder and I haven't even bothered to make a build for it, since for me to get high DPS numbers I have to use both Primed Heat/Convulsion to even just get to 1,376 points of damage and that's a fully level 30 Tome and a rank 12 Dante tome sits at 1,728 with just the base Hornet Strike mod. (On top of that, that damage is only Radiation damage), Also why Electricity and not Void Damage, it'll fit the lore so much better

So I am holding a tiny bit of hope that his Tomb will be much stronger, it's just a shame that Dante will only have the best Tome weapon we have

Edited March 21 by Circle_of_Psi

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

The Grimoire is so trash because of the low DPS and it's stuck with the worst damage in the game Electricity Status, it's MR fodder and I haven't even bothered to make a build for it, since for me to get high DPS numbers I have to use both Primed Heat/Convulsion to even just get to 1,376 points of damage and that's a fully level 30 Tome and a rank 12 Dante tome sits at 1,728 with just the base Hornet Strike mod. (On top of that, that damage is only Radiation damage), Also why Electricity and not Void Damage, it'll fit the lore so much better

Dont look at the Grimoire for the stats, that is my advice. We have 3 weapons in a loadout, not all of them need to deal damage. The Grimoire is an extremely potent utility tool and it can also wipe out full corridors of Steel Path trash with the alt fire. Which also ends up buffing you with very strong buffs. 10 energy per second, alternate path to efficiency, more power strength and so on. 

Right now I use it as the active weapon as I play melee, since a quick RMB+alternate fire sends of a massive AoE ball of lightning that buffs me while CCing, killing or adding electric+rad to the enemy for CO. And since I use it together with melee the damage buff from the arcane is always maxed when I swap over to throw a lightning ball.

Dante's Tome will likely be alot stronger for damage since it is slash based, but dont let the damage stats fool you, since Dantes tome wont have access to arcanes. It will scale with power strength, but you'd need alot of power strength to reach the same damage that a gun arcane provides. Another benefit on the Dante Tome is that you dont need to waste a slot for an augur mod to grab some shield gate potential, since you still have your normal secodary to hold that mod.

I'll likely mod his tome with cold, toxin, xata invocation, galv diffusion, lethal torrent, galvanized shot/hornet strike, creeping bullseye/primed pistol gambit and primed target cracker, with lethal momentum or lohk canticle as the exilus. Depending on how much strength I plan to invest on the frame, I might drop galv shot/hornet strike for primed heated charge instead.

[Tiltskillet]

8 hours ago, .LeiA._ said:

Do you folks reckon that Dante will be okay without Tome mods? I'm frickin sick of doing Munio over and over again. All I have are Mandonel parts and 2 Khra Canticle mods.

 

[PR1D3]

8 hours ago, .LeiA._ said:

Yeah, especially the Invocation mods that buff stats. Wanted to buy if I desperate enough, but the market price for the set is like 200p-ish if I remember it correctly. Argh.

When you say "market price" are you referring to trade chat/warframe.market? If so, DON'T. That price for the set is a flat out scam when the whole set is like 150 in the actual in game market. If anyone selling that set for anything less than the in game market they're straight up scamming hoping that one is obvious of the cheaper option provided by the devs.

[Waeleto]

Atm i'm thinking of running all tome mods + nourish in the place of his 3

[Stormandreas]

8 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Dante's tomb looks much stronger than the trash-tier Grimoire that we have now with what I can see from the Devstream and while yes it is a Dev Build we'll have to take it with a grind of salt, as they say.

Reasons why I think this way?:

1. The Exalted Tomb was only level 12 when it was shown in the Devstream and when Reb switched her mod-set up, we did see the base stats you listed here, so it's tough to say how much the final stats will have at level 30.
2. When Reb had the basic tier Mod set up (Hornet Strike/ Lethal Torrent & Pistol Gambit) the stats were not as great but is already vastly better than the current tome weapon since 1,728 total damage (from Slash) isn't anything to sneeze at but like-wise to the first point, it's tough to say how much the final stats will have at level 30.

 

So it's quite early to tell how strong this weapon will be but the problem here is that, if his Tomb weapon is as terrible or worse than the Grimoire, Dante will be DoA (or at least his 1st power) and it'll just be a free slot for whatever power people desire and I think DE try to avoid doing this.

 

The Grimoire is so trash because of the low DPS and it's stuck with the worst damage in the game Electricity Status, it's MR fodder and I haven't even bothered to make a build for it, since for me to get high DPS numbers I have to use both Primed Heat/Convulsion to even just get to 1,376 points of damage and that's a fully level 30 Tome and a rank 12 Dante tome sits at 1,728 with just the base Hornet Strike mod. (On top of that, that damage is only Radiation damage), Also why Electricity and not Void Damage, it'll fit the lore so much better

So I am holding a tiny bit of hope that his Tomb will be much stronger, it's just a shame that Dante will only have the best Tome weapon we have

If you think the Grimoire is trash then you don't know what it's purpose is.

It's a buffing/utility tool, not a damage tool.

If you also think Electric is the worst status in the game, you don't know how electric status procs work. They actually hit HIGHER numbers than Slash procs do. Just remove armour.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

2 hours ago, Stormandreas said:

It's a buffing/utility tool, not a damage tool.

I tried telling people this from the day WitW launched. remember all the threads about the Grimoire being trash? I do. dozens upon dozens of them.

Grimoire is mainly aimed at people who are willing to give up their Secondary slot for some added buffs/utility and deal most of their weapon damage with either Primary or Melee, or abilities if they're running frame that can do it.  it was free with a quest, has AoE and unlimited ammo with zero reload or recharge and the easiest charged alt-fire in the game, ain't no way it was gonna be hitting large numbers, otherwise why would anybody use anything else? Nataruk also hits most of those criteria, and everybody was running that bow after they did New War.

personally I'll try it with both an all-Tome config and one with a more traditional config, and see which I prefer. most of the fun of new frames and exalted weapons is experimenting with builds and seeing what works for you and what doesn't!

 

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

No Tomes? No Tomes? Wow, to be Tomeless. How sorrowful. 

For real though, probably won't be that big a deal. Ultimately we'd have to wait to know for sure, but Dante's book seems more DPS based, and a lot of the Tome mods strength/power is around buffing/auxiliary effects. Meaning traditional mods will probably be better, unless Dante's book is more intended as a Support type weapon, which it may... but then in which case, arguably the modding will matter less, and or can be side stepped in other ways. 

That being said, I sympathise with your situation, since Whispers Mirror Defence was the part of the update I liked the least, and after a decent try and getting the Tome modes, I actually had another of the other stuff from the update, I just sold those for Plat to buy the Tome mods. I might be wrong, but I get the sense either that grind will be made a bit easier with time, and or players will eventually get enough to make it more feasible just to buy them from other players. 

[-ShadowRadiance-]

17 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Since the main damage is Slash, do you think Viral will be better here?

Most likely. Even if nourish is gutted il be using Dante to test how much to a degree. Since i plan to make use as said of a toxin build woth archon cont.

[Circle_of_Psi]

19 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Dont look at the Grimoire for the stats, that is my advice. We have 3 weapons in a loadout, not all of them need to deal damage. The Grimoire is an extremely potent utility tool and it can also wipe out full corridors of Steel Path trash with the alt fire. Which also ends up buffing you with very strong buffs. 10 energy per second, alternate path to efficiency, more power strength and so on. 

Hmm, that seems to be the problem I'm having, since if you can wipe out full corridors of Steel Path trash with the alt-fire alone, then I assume the main fire can as well since the mod setup I went for seems a bit overboard.

(The setup: https://overframe.gg/build/new/6429/grimoire/?bs=WzEsNjQyOSwzMCwxLFtbNDE2LDEwLDNdLFs0MTUsMTAsMV0sWzU1MTcsMTAsMV0sWzQyNSwxMCwxXSxbNjQ3OCwxMCwzXSxbNDEzLDEwLDFdLFs2MzcwLDMsMV0sWzQwMiw1LDFdLFs2MzYzLDMsMV0sWzAsMCwwXV1d)

So that might be where my problem lies so you might be right, I porb suck at modding or I'm too focused on what I think the term is "Mid-Maxing?"

19 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Right now I use it as the active weapon as I play melee, since a quick RMB+alternate fire sends of a massive AoE ball of lightning that buffs me while CCing, killing or adding electric+rad to the enemy for CO. And since I use it together with melee the damage buff from the arcane is always maxed when I swap over to throw a lightning ball.

What I'm trying to do is set up Grimoire as sort of a go-to weapon that can shred Steel Path Mobs with both the main & alt-fire, while buffing myself and my teammates with powerful buffs, rather than Primer for say Meele or other weapons, but I'm not entirely sure how to do such.

19 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Dante's Tome will likely be alot stronger for damage since it is slash based, but dont let the damage stats fool you, since Dantes tome wont have access to arcanes. It will scale with power strength, but you'd need alot of power strength to reach the same damage that a gun arcane provides. Another benefit on the Dante Tome is that you dont need to waste a slot for an augur mod to grab some shield gate potential, since you still have your normal secodary to hold that mod.

Fair enough

Edited March 22 by Circle_of_Psi

[SneakyErvin]

3 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Hmm, that seems to be the problem I'm having, since if you can wipe out full corridors of Steel Path trash with the alt-fire alone, then I assume the main fire can as well since the mod setup I went for seems a bit overboard.

(The setup: https://overframe.gg/build/new/6429/grimoire/?bs=WzEsNjQyOSwzMCwxLFtbNDE2LDEwLDNdLFs0MTUsMTAsMV0sWzU1MTcsMTAsMV0sWzQyNSwxMCwxXSxbNjQ3OCwxMCwzXSxbNDEzLDEwLDFdLFs2MzcwLDMsMV0sWzQwMiw1LDFdLFs2MzYzLDMsMV0sWzAsMCwwXV1d)

So that might be where my problem lies so you might be right, I porb suck at modding or I'm too focused on what I think the term is "Mid-Maxing?"

What I'm trying to do is set up Grimoire as sort of a go-to weapon that can shred Steel Path Mobs with both the main & alt-fire, while buffing myself and my teammates with powerful buffs, rather than Primer for say Meele or other weapons, but I'm not entirely sure how to do such.

Fair enough

I run a similar build but without Primed Heated Charge, I run the Xata mod instead for the energy. Rad just does too little compared to adding damage over time with electric. I'm not sure how the tome performs as a constant killer weapon, since I never rely on it more than to bring up the wanted buffs from it at times. If you really want it as your main gun I'd pair it with specific frames that can help pull it off.

Garuda and Hydroid are likely very solid candidates, since Garuda allows you to access guaranteed slash with it while also adding +100% damage from her passive and Hydroid buffs it out like a madman by giving it insane corrosive. If you also run Nourish on Hydroid you'll have access to viral aswell. In addition to his armor strip etc. But I cant see it becoming more than a utility tool for most.

[Circle_of_Psi]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I run a similar build but without Primed Heated Charge, I run the Xata mod instead for the energy. Rad just does too little compared to adding damage over time with electric. I'm not sure how the tome performs as a constant killer weapon, since I never rely on it more than to bring up the wanted buffs from it at times. If you really want it as your main gun I'd pair it with specific frames that can help pull it off.

Garuda and Hydroid are likely very solid candidates, since Garuda allows you to access guaranteed slash with it while also adding +100% damage from her passive and Hydroid buffs it out like a madman by giving it insane corrosive. If you also run Nourish on Hydroid you'll have access to viral aswell. In addition to his armor strip etc. But I cant see it becoming more than a utility tool for most.

Hm alright then (Sorry OP for hijacking your thread, sort of gone off topic here)

 

I did ditch this build and go for another build that is a bit more streamlined and made something like this: (Link: https://overframe.gg/build/new/6429/grimoire/?bs=WzEsNjQyOSwzMCwxLFtbNDE2LDEwLDNdLFs0MzMsNSwyXSxbNDQ5LDUsM10sWzU1MTcsMTAsMV0sWzQwMiw1LDFdLFs1NTE4LDEwLDJdLFs0MTUsMTAsMV0sWzQyNSwxMCwxXSxbNjM2MywzLDBdLFswLDAsMF1dXQ==)

But I think there isn't any need for Rad damage at all, anything else you can suggest?

 

Since I rather not rely on certain frames just to get the most out of it

 

Edited March 22 by Circle_of_Psi

[Stormandreas]

8 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Hmm, that seems to be the problem I'm having, since if you can wipe out full corridors of Steel Path trash with the alt-fire alone, then I assume the main fire can as well since the mod setup I went for seems a bit overboard.

(The setup: https://overframe.gg/build/new/6429/grimoire/?bs=WzEsNjQyOSwzMCwxLFtbNDE2LDEwLDNdLFs0MTUsMTAsMV0sWzU1MTcsMTAsMV0sWzQyNSwxMCwxXSxbNjQ3OCwxMCwzXSxbNDEzLDEwLDFdLFs2MzcwLDMsMV0sWzQwMiw1LDFdLFs2MzYzLDMsMV0sWzAsMCwwXV1d)

So that might be where my problem lies so you might be right, I porb suck at modding or I'm too focused on what I think the term is "Mid-Maxing?"

What I'm trying to do is set up Grimoire as sort of a go-to weapon that can shred Steel Path Mobs with both the main & alt-fire, while buffing myself and my teammates with powerful buffs, rather than Primer for say Meele or other weapons, but I'm not entirely sure how to do such.

Fair enough

No canticle on your grimoire. That's a big problem. Plus you've modded entirely for Radiation, when the fact that it does forced electric procs on the alt fire, means you maximize on Conjunction voltage AND get corrosive, which will then armour strip on the right frames plus do a DoT that is actually stronger than slash (yes, electric procs will do more damage than slash procs given no armour and the same buffs)

Canticles are amazing and far better than the Invocations. You focus on damage with the Grimoire, when that's not it's best use by any means.

Edited March 22 by Stormandreas

[Circle_of_Psi]

18 minutes ago, Stormandreas said:

No canticle on your grimoire. That's a big problem. Plus you've modded entirely for Radiation, when the fact that it does forced electric procs on the alt fire, means you maximize on Conjunction voltage AND get corrosive, which will then armour strip on the right frames plus do a DoT that is actually stronger than slash (yes, electric procs will do more damage than slash procs given no armour and the same buffs)

Canticles are amazing and far better than the Invocations. You focus on damage with the Grimoire, when that's not it's best use by any means.

Uh, I do have a Canticle I think, I used Lohk Canticle, I think?

 

But anyway I can definitely see the issue with using Rad so I've decided to ditch that build but here's where the problem lies, if I can't do damage then how is the book gonna be useful to get Kills and Porc the Canticle? (Since I did mention that I don't want to use the book as a primer)

I don't have to focus on damage but I'd like at least some kind of damage to rip and tear into Steel Path and more, so how do you think I'll balance that out? (Also I'll try out what you just said about corrosive, tho sadly I don't own Conjunction Voltage or any Pistol Arcane for that matter)

Edited March 22 by Circle_of_Psi

[Stormandreas]

11 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Uh, I do have a Canticle I think, I used Lohk Canticle, I think?

 

But anyway I can definitely see the issue with using Rad so I've decided to ditch that build but here's where the problem lies, if I can't do damage then how is the book gonna be useful to get Kills and Porc the Canticle? (Since I did mention that I don't want to use the book as a primer)

I don't have to focus on damage but I'd like at least some kind of damage to rip and tear into Steel Path and more, so how do you think I'll balance that out? (Also I'll try out what you just said about corrosive, tho sadly I don't own Conjunction Voltage or any Pistol Arcane for that matter)

Ah sorry, other way around, Invocation > Canticle, got mixed up there :P.

You can do damage, with Corrosive and electric procs alongside 2 emerald shards. Besides, again, for the 3rd time, the grimoire is a buffing tool. You use it to buff up your strength, duration or efficiency to then boost your frame. It's a magic tome, which is designed as a buffing tool, for caster or support roles.

If you don't own ANY pistol arcane... farm for them. They drastically improve builds for steel path. Voltage is great for the grimoire 1. because of the forced procs on the alt fire making it very easy to upkeep and 2. multishot. More multishot means more charge for the alt fire, which lets you fire the alt fire more often.

Electric procs also do more dmaage than slash procs. Infact, they both use the exact same calculations, except electric procs do 50% of your damage vs Slash doing 35% AND Electric procs also include modded electric damage (slash procs do not include modded slash damge).
It's very easy to get much higher DoT numbers with Electric, especially on pistols, than slash, and we know how powerful slash is anyway.
Only thing Electric needs then, is armour strip, so, corrosive+2 emerald shards or an ability stripping armour.

Edited March 22 by Stormandreas