Warframe Support SUCKS

[Tossenberg]

18 minutes ago, UnstarPrime said:

Haha, I respect your effort in presumably looking up those numbers, but you're falling into some classic software development pitfalls in your attempt to utilize them.  I don't have a ton of time to write a full reply, so I'll just leave this here, which is what I would mostly be regurgitating anyway: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mythical_Man-Month

It's literally nothing about the numbers or math or anything, its about the fact that its not like they are in need of money, they keep expanding, and they can f*cking afford fixing their sh*t.

(Are you actually scared DE will go bankrupt if they fix these bugs or what are you trying to argue for? Do you actually think they can't afford it? Why are you fighting against these bugs being fixed? what is your actual purpose here?)

Edited March 26 by Tossenberg
Addition

[UnstarPrime]

43 minutes ago, Tossenberg said:

Are you actually scared DE will go bankrupt if they fix these bugs or what are you trying to argue for? Do you actually think they can't afford it? Why are you fighting against these bugs being fixed? what is your actual purpose here?)

I've been in the world and on the internet for a long time, and one thing I see all too often is people getting angry and upset due to miscommunications and misunderstandings.  And frequently these misunderstandings lead to conflict.  When that happens, everyone loses.  Being upset sucks.  Being misunderstood sucks.  If misunderstandings like these can be avoided and mitigated, I think everyone wins and the world ends up a better place.

So it's with that in mind that I'm genuinely trying to help you.  You don't understand how software development works (and that's fine, no shade intended) and seem to be under the misconception that solving software problems is as simple as throwing money at them.  This misconception leads you to think you have a practical solution for a problem, and that makes you wonder why these devs are so lazy or stupid or greedy that they aren't solving the problem with this solution that feels so obvious to you.  And that leads you to feeling frustrated, or whatever negative emotion inspired you to make this thread.

And all of that is needless and doesn't help anyone, especially you.  Ergo, me trying to give you some insight into how software development actually works so you can hopefully realize that you are in the Dunning Kruger zone.  There is absolutely no shame in not knowing something; most people don't know most things.  It's when we think we know something we actually don't that we manifest needless hostility, both for ourselves and for others.

And again, I don't want that needless hostility, not for you or anyone else.  When we waste our time and energy jumping at shadows, we have less of it to devote to the people in our lives, the activities we enjoy, and actual problems that aren't born of misunderstandings.

Now, I should clarify: I entirely stand by you complaining about bugs.  By all means, let DE know about how bugs are impacting your experience, and express your desire for them to put more of their resources into addressing them.  I'm all about that, as I would love to see more bugs fixed!  If players don't express these desires, nothing will change.

But I urge you to do so with compassion and humility.  A player saying, "I'd be willing to have no new content for a year if it meant DE could fix 50% of the game's bugs" is providing valuable feedback.  But a player who says "DE has enough money to fix all the bugs if they actually wanted to" is just saying "I don't understand software development" to every software developer in earshot.  It won't get you anything you want and it sets you up to feel bad.

Anyway, I hope you'll consider my food for thought, as I genuinely think it will result in your having a happier and more fulfilling life.  Regardless, here's wishing you well, Tenno!

[Tossenberg]

9 minutes ago, UnstarPrime said:

I've been in the world and on the internet for a long time, and one thing I see all too often is people getting angry and upset due to miscommunications and misunderstandings.  And frequently these misunderstandings lead to conflict.  When that happens, everyone loses.  Being upset sucks.  Being misunderstood sucks.  If misunderstandings like these can be avoided and mitigated, I think everyone wins and the world ends up a better place.

So it's with that in mind that I'm genuinely trying to help you.  You don't understand how software development works (and that's fine, no shade intended) and seem to be under the misconception that solving software problems is as simple as throwing money at them.  This misconception leads you to think you have a practical solution for a problem, and that makes you wonder why these devs are so lazy or stupid or greedy that they aren't solving the problem with this solution that feels so obvious to you.  And that leads you to feeling frustrated, or whatever negative emotion inspired you to make this thread.

And all of that is needless and doesn't help anyone, especially you.  Ergo, me trying to give you some insight into how software development actually works so you can hopefully realize that you are in the Dunning Kruger zone.  There is absolutely no shame in not knowing something; most people don't know most things.  It's when we think we know something we actually don't that we manifest needless hostility, both for ourselves and for others.

And again, I don't want that needless hostility, not for you or anyone else.  When we waste our time and energy jumping at shadows, we have less of it to devote to the people in our lives, the activities we enjoy, and actual problems that aren't born of misunderstandings.

Now, I should clarify: I entirely stand by you complaining about bugs.  By all means, let DE know about how bugs are impacting your experience, and express your desire for them to put more of their resources into addressing them.  I'm all about that, as I would love to see more bugs fixed!  If players don't express these desires, nothing will change.

But I urge you to do so with compassion and humility.  A player saying, "I'd be willing to have no new content for a year if it meant DE could fix 50% of the game's bugs" is providing valuable feedback.  But a player who says "DE has enough money to fix all the bugs if they actually wanted to" is just saying "I don't understand software development" to every software developer in earshot.  It won't get you anything you want and it sets you up to feel bad.

Anyway, I hope you'll consider my food for thought, as I genuinely think it will result in your having a happier and more fulfilling life.  Regardless, here's wishing you well, Tenno!

Alright, I hear what you are saying but you still haven't answered my question, so I'll ask again.

Do you think DE doesn't have the money/time/talent/resources to fix these bugs? If you do think they can fix them, then you have no reason to be here in the first place. I am expressing my dissatisfaction with a service, and how stupid I think it is that they have time to try and launch on IOS before just fixing the bugs that have been going around. Some more harsh than others, and some of these having existed for YEARS and they still haven't done anything about them. Now you might argue: "Oh but they are always fixing bugs" or "but they will get to it eventually" Like I said it has been years. They are barely active in the bug forums they advertise so hard, and I don't care how much they are doing behind the scenes, if they can't communicate with the community, give us anything to know about the many bugs we complain about, then its a bad service they are providing through their support, bug fixing teams and community technical communications. 

Now if you don't think they have the money/time/talent/resources to fix this, then they are doing an even worse job. If you can put something together, but not fix it when it breaks, and just leave it broken and damaged for the player to pick up, then of course they are going to get annoyed with you. This isn't about needing to understand humans are working on this and "corporations are also people", I get that, and is by no means attacking those working on this, I'm sure they are probably under enough stress with Dante and all already. But Why is there no management, developer, or anything that can listen to the community just enough for them to actually just slow the pace for a bit, ask the community if everyone is happy, and fix whatever issues there might be. I'm angry that DE is going too fast and isn't fixing the holes they are leaving behind. And if complaining here on the forums is the wrong thing to do, then what is the right thing? Has all this basically just been a way for you to say "swearing bad, try using kinder words"? Is it really all because you think I'm too harsh on them? I literally pay their bills as a player, I am within my right to try and communicate my frustrations to them. Now you might say "then give your money somewhere else and go away" Which is just stupid. I am complaining because I love this game and want it to be better, and I want to keep enjoying it, and I will keep playing no matter what, but if I don't complain, I know they will absolutely never get anything fixed.

Also yes throwing money at something does fix the problem. I would like for you to propose me one realistic problem that can't directly be fixed as a result of more money. 

[Hobie-wan]

1 hour ago, UnstarPrime said:

You don't understand how software development works (and that's fine, no shade intended) and seem to be under the misconception that solving software problems is as simple as throwing money at them.

Indeed. At my last job I was support, but talked to the developers from time to time. There were long standing bugs that were frustrating to me (much less end users) but were low priority because they didn't make the software completely break or had workarounds. It's just a thing that happens with software development once it is more than 1 person making some utility in their basement and there's a company to run.

48 minutes ago, Tossenberg said:

Also yes throwing money at something does fix the problem. I would like for you to propose me one realistic problem that can't directly be fixed as a result of more money.

There is also a need for money to keep coming in. The money to throw at problems has to come from somewhere and if it doesn't get replenished for an extended period of time, the company withers. If people lose interest in the game because they take 6 months or a year off to simply catch up on a backlog of issues, the game withers. Think how many people play new content and then disappear for a month or 3 until there's new stuff. If that wait time is too long, those people won't come back.

Also, your thread title sucks. It is needlessly mean and as pointed out isn't even directed at the right people. You want bugs fixed, which isn't what support does. Do you just want support to waste time telling you "still no update for you" every week? I want issues fixed too, but this thread as presented was a terrible way to provide feedback on things.

[NightmareT12]

8 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Not often enough, but more than "barely ever".   The key point is these responses more than anything take the form of patch notes. 

It's pretty much this. Not everyone has the patience to deal with us as a userbase and that's fine. It's true it makes it look like they don't ever read a thing, but in my experience it's the opposite, they lurk quite often and take notes. A bug not fixed doesn'¡t mean it's purposely ignored, sometimes the way they code things makes it hard to fix.

Sometimes it helps to insist in the patch notes threads, but I think I've seen someone bring up some of these (I keep an eye on the Garuda talons one, despite not affecting me as I don't use TennoGen on her👀).

Edited March 27 by NightmareT12

[tCartmant]

1 hour ago, Tossenberg said:

Alright, I hear what you are saying but you still haven't answered my question, so I'll ask again.

Do you think DE doesn't have the money/time/talent/resources to fix these bugs? If you do think they can fix them, then you have no reason to be here in the first place. I am expressing my dissatisfaction with a service, and how stupid I think it is that they have time to try and launch on IOS before just fixing the bugs that have been going around. Some more harsh than others, and some of these having existed for YEARS and they still haven't done anything about them. Now you might argue: "Oh but they are always fixing bugs" or "but they will get to it eventually" Like I said it has been years. They are barely active in the bug forums they advertise so hard, and I don't care how much they are doing behind the scenes, if they can't communicate with the community, give us anything to know about the many bugs we complain about, then its a bad service they are providing through their support, bug fixing teams and community technical communications. 

I will answer it. I very much do think they have the talent to fix it. The resources is the problem. Let me give you an example.

At a previous company, there was a bug that was really simple. When you put a certain value into a string, it would crash the code. Easy right? The code was python.

A guy who writes the codebase for python, saw it and said, well, I know why its happening but I have to change this code right here. Problem is, its a core piece and gets called millions of times in many different ways. I change it, its going to break something else..

This is the problem with bugs, it seems SOO simple at the surface but some bug are just so much of a pain to fix. The above code was fixed, it took, no joke, 6 months for the patch to go out making sure it did not break anything else...

1 bug, 6 months.....

 

Edited March 27 by tCartmant

[Tiltskillet]

4 hours ago, VibingCat said:

I'm genuinely not trying to argue and I'm sorry if I gave you that impression; my goal is rather to show that a part of the community cares about fixes over new content.

Got it.👍 And I agree.  But my gut feeling is that the community, if they had to choose between content and bugfixes--voting with their play time and their wallets and not in some poll--the vast majority would choose new content until the bugs started to become catastrophic.  Some people put a higher priority on bugfixes, no doubt, but I think we're a minority, and I suspect maybe not the most lucrative demographic.

[TeaHands]

1 hour ago, tCartmant said:

1 bug, 6 months.....

DE'S got them beat by 10 freaking years. Tonight is hopefully the last night for Sticky Corners.

[VibingCat]

59 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Got it.👍 And I agree.  But my gut feeling is that the community, if they had to choose between content and bugfixes--voting with their play time and their wallets and not in some poll--the vast majority would choose new content until the bugs started to become catastrophic.  Some people put a higher priority on bugfixes, no doubt, but I think we're a minority, and I suspect maybe not the most lucrative demographic.

Most probably you're right, but anyone would change their mind after a glitch leads to mission failure. Remember the first week of the Circuit? That was a true nightmare. Despite dozens of hotfixes, some issues persist.

Moreover, the new content is usually part of something we don't typically return to after it's complete – with the notable exception of Zariman, for example –, whereas bugs remain, ruining our experience and sometimes maintaining a level of risk that doesn't feel pleasant.

[tCartmant]

18 minutes ago, TeaHands said:

DE'S got them beat by 10 freaking years. Tonight is hopefully the last night for Sticky Corners.

Yeah, Steve told the story that it was a Soulframe dev who fixed it because he encountered it before in a previous gig. Some of these bugs can be really hard to fix. 

[Genitive]

You just spam support with tickets that don't belong there, delaying their response to actual issues people might have.

[Aruquae]

Support Team just radios what you said to the people who are supposed to fix it. 
It’s not in their hands once it’s relayed, and they can’t do much after relaying it. 

Don’t give the support team insults, most are trying their best (and my goodness are they a lot better compared to other games)

Edited March 27 by Aruquae

[SneakyErvin]

13 hours ago, Tossenberg said:

Alright, I hear what you are saying but you still haven't answered my question, so I'll ask again.

Do you think DE doesn't have the money/time/talent/resources to fix these bugs? If you do think they can fix them, then you have no reason to be here in the first place. I am expressing my dissatisfaction with a service, and how stupid I think it is that they have time to try and launch on IOS before just fixing the bugs that have been going around. Some more harsh than others, and some of these having existed for YEARS and they still haven't done anything about them. Now you might argue: "Oh but they are always fixing bugs" or "but they will get to it eventually" Like I said it has been years. They are barely active in the bug forums they advertise so hard, and I don't care how much they are doing behind the scenes, if they can't communicate with the community, give us anything to know about the many bugs we complain about, then its a bad service they are providing through their support, bug fixing teams and community technical communications. 

First thing you dont seem to realize is that different teams work on different things. That ports are made while bugs are still there doesnt mean the bugs arent getting worked on as the port is worked on aswell. And swapping people from one team to another would not magically solve or even help soving whatever it is they are working on. Since again different teams work on different things based on their field of expertise.

Second thing, reporting things to support, especially bugs and demanding compensation for lost loot etc. slows down their process for actually important issues. Report it in the bug section and live with the lost loot. Some of the issues you list in your OP are also of little priority, and some arent even bugs, like Duviri Defense starting "at random". Defense is intended to start after a certain time if you do not head to the objective. It is like that everywhere. Not to mention that some of the things are issues on your end. Like loot images and text not showing for you, which is likely a result of an unoptimized cache for the game, poor connection at the time or alot of trash cache files tied to the game on your computer in general. Which is also likely a result to your soft lock issues, unless you experience those soley in multiplayer, at which point lowering your ping limit or changing matchmaker region might help. Then your Arc Coil bug is an issue tied to Sim, just like many other things in Sim bugging out specifically there. Again not really a pressing matter. Your Netracell issue sounds like a client/host issue, or you are playing Nezha.

And DE does communicate enough. They even tend to change bug report titles with a (known) to let people know that the bug has been reproduced on their end. I dont need an in depths explaination. And if you want bugs to be seen and solved sooner instead of later, making detailed reports on the subforum is the best way, since it has the highest chance of getting seen directly by someone working on it, which leads to them asking for DMs through support with direct instruction on what to provide and how to provide it so it ends up with them directly and skips the normal line.

14 hours ago, Tossenberg said:

Now if you don't think they have the money/time/talent/resources to fix this, then they are doing an even worse job. If you can put something together, but not fix it when it breaks, and just leave it broken and damaged for the player to pick up, then of course they are going to get annoyed with you. This isn't about needing to understand humans are working on this and "corporations are also people", I get that, and is by no means attacking those working on this, I'm sure they are probably under enough stress with Dante and all already. But Why is there no management, developer, or anything that can listen to the community just enough for them to actually just slow the pace for a bit, ask the community if everyone is happy, and fix whatever issues there might be. I'm angry that DE is going too fast and isn't fixing the holes they are leaving behind. And if complaining here on the forums is the wrong thing to do, then what is the right thing? Has all this basically just been a way for you to say "swearing bad, try using kinder words"? Is it really all because you think I'm too harsh on them? I literally pay their bills as a player, I am within my right to try and communicate my frustrations to them. Now you might say "then give your money somewhere else and go away" Which is just stupid. I am complaining because I love this game and want it to be better, and I want to keep enjoying it, and I will keep playing no matter what, but if I don't complain, I know they will absolutely never get anything fixed.

It just isnt realistic since the hardware and software configurations of the community are too vast for them to catch and fix all the bugs even if soley focused on that. Which in return would also halt production in several other departments, meaning that they'd have to let certain people go that now end up with stockpiled and finished work as development for new content gets halted at the end of the line. Then we dont know how many can be moved from what they do either to focus on bug fixing, so you might have even more people left with nothing to do, since they need parts of what the now transfered people usually do in order to get anything done at their end.

And even if DE could hire more for the bug fixing team, it would also result in a need for physical space aswell as picking up more hardware for them to work on etc.

You are also not helping by complaining here on the general forum. Helping would be you posting detailed bug reports in the appropriate bug forums. If you have a bug, that bug may be specific to your setup, meaning that it doesnt help anyone if you just mention the general overarching issue of the bug, since it might not be possible to reproduce on the setup DE uses. What hardware and software do you use? Which frame and settings were used when you ran into the bug etc. All of those things matter.

[BloodForCavalero]

On 2024-03-26 at 11:59 AM, Tossenberg said:

Lately, I have found myself sending A LOT of bug reports to Digital Extremes support teams, and I have been nothing short of disappointed nearly every time. I get about 4 autogenerated messages promising they will get back, but currently, my average wait time before any real person gets to it is weeks, with some reaching MONTHS. 

I get DE is working hard on the new updates and is also receiving a lot of bug reports but instead of the devs acknowledging this, they just keep pushing new content. Now I like new warframes and content as much as the next guy over, but is it really too much to ask for them to just slow their pace and actually fix the rather severe issues that are currently plaguing the game? I would not for a single second mind skipping out on the next 5 warframes if it meant the game ran perfectly.

Some of the issues I have run into are as follows.

- Diriga arc coil is flat out not working.

- Garuda Prime talons mesh still hasn't been fixed after several years and can thus not use tennogen skins.

- Defence operatives (NPC) in archon hunt missions fall through the map and die randomly making you lose the entire (rather insanely boring and tedious) mission.

- Duviri Softlocking me in extraction making me lose the entire mission.

- Duviri Defence randomly starting.

- Netracells random instakill even while invulnerable, shield gated or under "death immunity".

- Display and screen jittering / latency (fixed by alt tabbing but still a pain that they haven't fixed that).

- Volt Ephemera spilling over onto other frames.

- Lighting and effect stacking issues in simulacrum.

- Resource images and names not even showing after extraction.

- Arbitration extraction softlocking.

These are just what I have experienced, but I have seen tons scattered across the forums and Reddit, some having lasted for years without being addressed in any way, and honestly, that is not good enough DE. You have the money and time to fix all this, but instead, you are working on (and excuse my language) #*!%ing plopping warframe onto iPhones, like 90% of your player base doesn't exist or needs priority. 

I have been writing to DE support, giving them tons of logs, screen recordings, screenshots, data and whatever else they could wish for. To this day I have still not received any compensation or alike for the resources I have lost, which to this date totals to around: 236 steel essence, 87 vitus essence, 42 riven slivers, 118 arcanes (from acolytes and duviri) and an unknown amount of endo worth in mods and just plain endo.

DE has been sloppy with their newer updates and bug fixes, and their support team is barely doing anything else than ask for logs and go on about their day after having let you wait for upwards of months. 

I love the game, but get your (again excuse my language) S#&$ together DE

Bug reports have their own section. 

Support is for ingmae issues that directly affect your account.

[UnstarPrime]

16 hours ago, Tossenberg said:

And if complaining here on the forums is the wrong thing to do, then what is the right thing?

I got to this line and my heart sank.  I literally wrote a full paragraph encouraging you to complain on the forums.  I'm doing my best to assume good faith on your part, but I'll admit to having trouble rationalizing how you'd miss that.

 

Let's both you and I take a deep breath.  In.  Hold it in there for a few seconds.  Now out slowly.  Okay, I'm ready to continue.

 

If I were to try to summarize everything I've said to you up until this point in a single sentence, it would be this:

"Don't make bad faith assumptions".

Recognize that there's a meaningful difference between knowing something and guessing.  Give others the benefit of the doubt unless you have tangible reasons not to.  Have humility.  And do so not simply because it benefits others, but because it directly benefits you.

 

In any case where you're not making an assumption, fantastic.  A bug happens in your game.  You hate the bug.  You tell the developers about the bug and tell them you hate it and you want it fixed.  FABULOUS.  You have not made any assumptions, you are just spitting truths.  Telling them about your experience as a customer?  Telling them what kind of changes would make you happy?  Hell yeah, you're the expert on that topic, fire away.

But imagining that you currently know how to run any aspect of their company better than them, when they have all the knowledge about the inner workings of their company and you're lacking the vast majority of that?  There's simply no way a grounded person could confidently think such a thing.

So don't.  It will make the world a better place.

 

16 hours ago, Tossenberg said:

Also yes throwing money at something does fix the problem. I would like for you to propose me one realistic problem that can't directly be fixed as a result of more money.

What do you mean by the word "realistic" in this sentence?  I can think of plenty of problems that can't be solved with more money...but I have no way to know whether they would be "realistic" to you.  Is a "realistic problem" one that can be solved by throwing more money at it?  If that's the case, then it becomes a tautology, since it would be impossible to name a problem that can be solved with money that can't be solved with money.

 

@SneakyErvin did a nice job reply to a lot of your questions, so I'm not going to reinvent the wheel and instead just add some supplemental replies that I hope you find helpful.

17 hours ago, Tossenberg said:

Do you think DE doesn't have the money/time/talent/resources to fix these bugs?

It doesn't matter what you or I think, what matters is reality.  And neither of us has the necessary information to determine that reality without making guesses of a magnitude that is careless.  We can know how much money DE has reported having, but we have no way of knowing how they are allocating those resources.

But broadly speaking, profit-driven companies don't just have a pile of money that they could spend on something but aren't spending.  Because investing that money into a project is how profit-driven companies make even more money than they started with, which is among their key purposes.  So without knowing a great deal more about their resource allocation efforts, we would have to be operating in bad faith to presume that DE had untapped resources that weren't tied to initiatives (or cushions in case of disaster).

 

17 hours ago, Tossenberg said:

Why is there no management, developer, or anything that can listen to the community just enough for them to actually just slow the pace for a bit, ask the community if everyone is happy, and fix whatever issues there might be.

Friend, they do this all the time.  The community in turn responds in two ways: with their words and with their wallets. And DE reacts and responds to both.  And as I stated before, DE has found that their ability to bring in the money — which they need to continue paying their staff and developing the game — correlates with their cadence of releases.

 

20 hours ago, Tossenberg said:

Are you actually scared DE will go bankrupt if they fix these bugs

With respect, one thing that makes it clear you're not a software developer is that the first consequence of "lowered profits" that comes to your mind is "bankruptcy".  You say you're not worried about DE going bankrupt, and I agree, because it's generally a long and gradual road to bankruptcy.

But as a software developer, what it's difficult to talk about without getting a bit emotional is what happens long, long before bankruptcy: layoffs.  I don't know if you've ever lost your ability to sustain your existence, but it's devastating.  To be doing good work, to maybe have even found a job you're happy to do, and to lose it all through no fault of your own and suddenly have no idea how you're going to pay for your day-to-day needs?  I genuinely wouldn't wish that on anyone.

And of course, that means the quality of the game suffers, because lower headcount means less work going into the game. 

So when customers put up money for new content but don't put up money for bug fixes, DE is wise to listen.  The consequences to doing otherwise are tangible.

[Tossenberg]

5 hours ago, UnstarPrime said:

I got to this line and my heart sank.  I literally wrote a full paragraph encouraging you to complain on the forums.  I'm doing my best to assume good faith on your part, but I'll admit to having trouble rationalizing how you'd miss that.

 

Let's both you and I take a deep breath.  In.  Hold it in there for a few seconds.  Now out slowly.  Okay, I'm ready to continue.

 

If I were to try to summarize everything I've said to you up until this point in a single sentence, it would be this:

"Don't make bad faith assumptions".

Recognize that there's a meaningful difference between knowing something and guessing.  Give others the benefit of the doubt unless you have tangible reasons not to.  Have humility.  And do so not simply because it benefits others, but because it directly benefits you.

 

In any case where you're not making an assumption, fantastic.  A bug happens in your game.  You hate the bug.  You tell the developers about the bug and tell them you hate it and you want it fixed.  FABULOUS.  You have not made any assumptions, you are just spitting truths.  Telling them about your experience as a customer?  Telling them what kind of changes would make you happy?  Hell yeah, you're the expert on that topic, fire away.

But imagining that you currently know how to run any aspect of their company better than them, when they have all the knowledge about the inner workings of their company and you're lacking the vast majority of that?  There's simply no way a grounded person could confidently think such a thing.

So don't.  It will make the world a better place.

 

What do you mean by the word "realistic" in this sentence?  I can think of plenty of problems that can't be solved with more money...but I have no way to know whether they would be "realistic" to you.  Is a "realistic problem" one that can be solved by throwing more money at it?  If that's the case, then it becomes a tautology, since it would be impossible to name a problem that can be solved with money that can't be solved with money.

 

@SneakyErvin did a nice job reply to a lot of your questions, so I'm not going to reinvent the wheel and instead just add some supplemental replies that I hope you find helpful.

It doesn't matter what you or I think, what matters is reality.  And neither of us has the necessary information to determine that reality without making guesses of a magnitude that is careless.  We can know how much money DE has reported having, but we have no way of knowing how they are allocating those resources.

But broadly speaking, profit-driven companies don't just have a pile of money that they could spend on something but aren't spending.  Because investing that money into a project is how profit-driven companies make even more money than they started with, which is among their key purposes.  So without knowing a great deal more about their resource allocation efforts, we would have to be operating in bad faith to presume that DE had untapped resources that weren't tied to initiatives (or cushions in case of disaster).

 

Friend, they do this all the time.  The community in turn responds in two ways: with their words and with their wallets. And DE reacts and responds to both.  And as I stated before, DE has found that their ability to bring in the money — which they need to continue paying their staff and developing the game — correlates with their cadence of releases.

 

With respect, one thing that makes it clear you're not a software developer is that the first consequence of "lowered profits" that comes to your mind is "bankruptcy".  You say you're not worried about DE going bankrupt, and I agree, because it's generally a long and gradual road to bankruptcy.

But as a software developer, what it's difficult to talk about without getting a bit emotional is what happens long, long before bankruptcy: layoffs.  I don't know if you've ever lost your ability to sustain your existence, but it's devastating.  To be doing good work, to maybe have even found a job you're happy to do, and to lose it all through no fault of your own and suddenly have no idea how you're going to pay for your day-to-day needs?  I genuinely wouldn't wish that on anyone.

And of course, that means the quality of the game suffers, because lower headcount means less work going into the game. 

So when customers put up money for new content but don't put up money for bug fixes, DE is wise to listen.  The consequences to doing otherwise are tangible.

You just keep running in circles and is honestly waste my time. I don't have any need for a broader perspective on how a bug report system works, nor do I need lectures in sympathy when this is about none of this. My core reason for this post is I experience their support team S*CK at just doing plain support things, like keep requesting logs I have already sent, not following up on their promises, and spending a ton of time just getting back with responses. No I'm not a software developer, nor have I ever claimed to be even affiliated with software or programming. My rant also mentions that I think that in general DE as a company delivering the product "warframe" (you may have heard of it) is doing a bad job at fixing bugs. Like mentioned further up in the thread, took them literal years to just get around to fixing sticky corners. And when it comes to "oh they need to make new content to keep the money flowing in" there is literally no evidence that  suggests that taking 1 update to just mega fix everything they can wouldn't bring even more money in, BECAUSE THEY HAVE NEVER EVEN TRIED ANYTHING LIKE THAT. It's always just hotfixes and fix whatever requires fixing. I think they are lazy / priorities wrongly in the same way I think the dev team of pokemon scarlet/violet are lazy, in the same way I think the same of all those other gaming companies that rush projects and leave them a buggy mess, which I feel like is direction DE is going. 

Also just quite the whole "what does realistic mean?" I'm not saying money could summon a unicorn, or create a square circle. At this point I'm not even interested in your answer anymore, it's just nonsensical and a waste of time. Goodnight

[Alarwyn]

Greetings Tenno,

I'm not getting a reply to support tickets from anyone. I have had a ticket open for the past month with zero response. Another ticket got a single response which was not even addressing my issue and was just general "advice" that did not even concern what was happening after a week or so, and no activity to my reply to that ticket (which is still open) for two to three weeks now. Absolutely no help has been effectively given.

There needs to be a way to actually contact an individual regarding for example purchases rather than get shuffled off into a system where you can be effectively ignored without consequence to the individual or the company which is allowing it to happen.

A month and still no help and a single probably copy paste response is terrible. DE needs a phone number available for support to be blunt. This ticket only system can be abused so easily by ineffective staff. My only option outside of DE at this point is to claim fraud via the internet which gets reported to the law enforcement instead of the company, which in my country would be the FBI.

Or to wait. And hope someone will respond, that their reply will be useful, and eventually after perhaps months that things will be addressed. Absurd.

This treatment is bad enough to make me uninterested in the game itself as well as advise others to avoid the companies games as they simply do not care to spend the required money to have real Customer Service for their player base to get assistance with issues.

Maybe someone at DE will read this and take note. Doubtful, but still maybe. Not many frustrated players bother to continue on with an issue after a month, nor do they get around to posting on a forum when support has already failed completely. I have to wonder how many people just stop playing and leave the game permanently as it is obviously much easier than going to all this trouble and sticking with trying to find a solution.

By the way looking into Emailing DE outright they have a huge red "STOP if you have an issue with warframe contact support" warning. So that seems fairly pointless. Most likely others have tried just that in order to actually get help already, and just don't care to give that help at all it would seem. I might still try that, my issue is with DE itself failing to follow through with their end of a financial agreement with one of the tickets so maybe they would not just refuse to talk based on my not following the contact methodology they find cheapest.

You have my Email DE, feel free to use it. /Salute

[Circle_of_Psi]

39 minutes ago, Alarwyn said:

My only option outside of DE at this point is to claim fraud via the internet which gets reported to the law enforcement instead of the company, which in my country would be the FBI.

lol good luck with that pal, I hope you got a good lawyer!

 

But seriously onto the topic at hand: You'll have to wait until Support can get back to you in the matter you have, support receives a lot of tickets daily and it takes time for them to go through them all if your ticket has barely any information or is just rant/raving, this ticket will likely get ignored, opening up multiple tickets will only delay the time they respond.

If you STILL haven't got any response, you are free to close the ticket and make a new one, make sure you add as much detail as possible, if that still doesn't work your best bet is to contact DE on the forums with your problem, since they can help you with a problem as well.

Overall you just have to wait, while I will agree with you that DE support is, lacking for a better term we're all human at the end of the day and sometimes we make mistakes, for now all you can do is try again and this time wait, don't spam or reopen tickets unless you have to. 

 

Hope this helps and good luck with your support and your ticket.

[Rawbeard]

so what you are saying is that you want to speak to the manager?

[(XBOX)XYZ RUMBEL]

My last 2 tickets have not been answered either. I think that support only answers questions that they want to answer, for whatever reason

[Lobotomizeur]

What kind of questions did you asked them ? They may not respond if your request is indeed considered a waste of time.

They always answered my ticket so far, if your ticket looks loike "I've got an issue" with nothing more in it, well, yeah noone's gonna waste his time trying to get information from you, especially when it regards already answered topics or stuff you can easily find on the internet, same regarding advices / possible modiciations about things not a % of the community would care about.

Anyway, just answer your ticket or open a new one.

[Alarwyn]

I'm not looking for a player to help me fix one of my tickets. no player is going to be able to address my account transactions so why give details? And you certainly aren't going to tell me what their standalone launcher Error codes are and how to fix/troubleshoot them successfully. I have yet to even see a reply on that topic from a Dev. My tickets are still open, I have not closed them, so why make a new one? Nobody at DE has closed my tickets, or even replied to one of the two.

I'm simply looking for a way to actually contact Customer Service and find out what answers they can give me. I doubt anyone actually has this information, but who knows? It would be nice to be wrong on that one.

To the person saying "good luck" you are thinking lawsuits and civil law, fraud is criminal law. You file a report with law enforcement. All you have to spend is the time and effort in typing, such as in this post as an example. Not terribly expensive. If they did make a mistake and they owe me, I am pretty dang sure they will fix it IF I can get through to a human being which is the entire point. 

If they had an accessible account history like every other gaming company has that I have ever done business with then things would be simple. I could look things up myself then inside 5 to 10 minutes for at least one ticket and a phone support number would fix the other issue in an hour or less at most. I wonder if people even realize that good companies still have a human being available for players to get assistance from in a timely fashion? Instead they think a post and reply system is just the way things are. A sad day indeed.

To put it into the example of the "manager" troll statement above I'm wandering the store looking for any employee. I am apparently alone in a vast, empty warehouse of a retail company looking for anyone with a pulse to respond to a shout but all I get is silence besides the company jingle on the overhead speakers.  At least a few of the other shoppers have stopped to chat, ah human contact! I've been wandering about for a month now, so I figure the shout is well deserved at this point. If it takes this long to get a reply then they need to hire more support staff to be blunt. The length of the delay is as frustrating as the actual issue! If every Karen would wait a month to "ask for a manager" retail would be an idyllic paradise.

If players could fix things for me I would happily get that done rather than simply not play due to wondering if I would actually get anything in return for giving them actual money. "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me".

I guess I could go in game and grind valuable things then sell to other players for plat, totally skipping DE earning a profit from me directly and remove their actual monetary involvement in any of my future "purchases" so to speak. After their failure to support their financial transactions in a timely fashion it is highly dubious if I would want to continue to do business with them in real currency. I guess this is one good thing from the free to play model, I do have that choice. I am equally likely to simply consider this a write off and take myself elsewhere entirely for another long break from Warframe.

I will probably check back in after a while once or twice to see if anything useful was posted but so far the forums are no better than the ignore, errr "support" ticket system.

 

 

 

[PrideB4TheFall]

Content > Bug Fixing

Ask any dev. They will all tell you the same.

Edited April 16 by PrideB4TheFall

[Mr.Holyroller]

The support team doesnt handle bugs. 
Its kinda funny that you posted this on the forums because the bug reports FAQ on the forums would tell you everything you need to know to submit coherent, usable, bug reports

[UnstarPrime]

On 2024-04-15 at 10:42 AM, Alarwyn said:

I'm not getting a reply to support tickets from anyone. I have had a ticket open for the past month with zero response. Another ticket got a single response which was not even addressing my issue and was just general "advice" that did not even concern what was happening after a week or so, and no activity to my reply to that ticket (which is still open) for two to three weeks now. Absolutely no help has been effectively given.

Based on what I've experienced with some of my current tickets and what I've heard from others, I get the impression that Support is currently facing a workload that greatly exceeds their typical bandwidth: both cross-play and iOS have launched with a variety of issues that are now being sent down the same pipeline for all the other issues that can occur in the game.

That said, I've had support tickets at this time that are resolved in days, and I've had support tickets that have waited more than a month before getting a reply.  As someone who has worked a support role before, it's presumably because some issues are easier than others to investigate and resolve.  One of my tickets is on something that DE has never had to solve before, so I'm not surprised that after months my ticket is still open (though they have gotten back to me a few times).

I would simply recommend patience.  As long as you provided them with the information they'll need to investigate your issue, and as long as you were polite in your ticket, they'll get back to you when they have something worthwhile to report back to you.  Payment-related tickets are generally among the higher-priority tickets in my experience, so if your ticket is taking awhile it's likely because there's some nuance to your particular situation that is exacerbating the process.

As for the phone thing, if DE had a hotline you could call into, your situation would likely be even worse: they've had the same massive pile of issues to solve, only everyone would be calling simultaneously instead.  You'd be one of thousands of people on hold all day, potentially without even getting through.  That's part of what makes a ticketing system much more sensible: it saves you and everyone else from having to deal with that huge pain in the butt, instead allowing you to just do your thing until Support can give you the help you need.

All of that said, I presume there's some way to give DE your feedback about your dissatisfaction with their support process.  It wouldn't be posting here in General though, as they generally only read the Bugs and Feedback sections.

Anyway, hope your issue gets resolved soon.  Hang in there!