Treat losing Overguard like losing Health (Vex Armor + Rage/Hunter Adrenaline)

[16Bitman]

Whenever you lose overguard, it's treated like losing health.

To avoid making it an infinite energy generator for Dante and Styanax, severely reduce the rate at which it's converted.

Chroma is in a bad enough spot with Vex Armor already imo, make the conversion rate more generous on him.

 

This is to stop Overguard generating Warframes to be disruptive to other players.

[ThePredicament]

Yeah, there needs to be some kind of change to how overguard is treated, especially when it comes to Rage builds.

As for Vex Armor, I would say take damage for Scorn until it's maxed then over to Fury until that's maxed.

[Joezone619]

Overguard easily breaks builds that use rage, and hunter adrenaline. Especially since its a buff you can't deny, decline, or get rid of, even by running out of bounds.

[ShogunGunshow]

Either a change to overguard, or a change to those mods to specify 'non-shield damage' or 'Health or Overguard' instead of just Health.

[Tiltskillet]

 

On 2024-04-02 at 3:44 PM, 16Bitman said:

To avoid making it an infinite energy generator for Dante and Styanax, severely reduce the rate at which it's converted.

It would have to be, given the quantities of overguard hp involved, how easy it is to generate more even apart from the extra energy, and the fact that HA/Rage returns wouldn't be reduced by DR.   Without a severe penalty, these mods would work better on overguarded frames than they do on the frames that traditionally use them with health.

My first instinct is to have them still not work at all on overguard when the player is opting in to it. So non-functional on Kullervo, Rhino, or Dante; or on augmented Atlas, Frost, or Styanax.  Shared overguard is still problematic, but the benefit should outweigh the issues.

[quxier]

55 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

On 2024-04-03 at 12:44 AM, 16Bitman said:

To avoid making it an infinite energy generator for Dante and Styanax, severely reduce the rate at which it's converted.

It would have to be, given the quantities of overguard hp involved, how easy it is to generate more even apart from the extra energy, and the fact that HA/Rage returns wouldn't be reduced by DR.   Without a severe penalty, these mods would work better on overguarded frames than they do on the frames that traditionally use them with health.

Yeah, like 30k Overguard via Dante would yield 12k energy (40% from 30k).

1% would be fine I guess.

ps. if my math is right

57 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

My first instinct is to have them still not work at all on overguard when the player is opting in to it. So non-functional on Kullervo, Rhino, or Dante; or on augmented Atlas, Frost, or Styanax.  Shared overguard is still problematic, but the benefit should outweigh the issues.

"Not working on X" is bad. It doesn't have to be the best but we need more not less options.

[Tiltskillet]

1 minute ago, quxier said:

"Not working on X" is bad. It doesn't have to be the best but we need more not less options.

It would be more options than we have now, not fewer.   Players don't need endless options, and developers probably don't need balancing for every option added to their workloads when they've got plenty of other things to do.

That said, there might be a way to make it work on those frames.  I'm just skeptical it's worth the effort when there's no  pressing need.  If there is a pressing need, it's for frames that are getting overguard and don't have any say in it.

 

[quxier]

2 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

That said, there might be a way to make it work on those frames.  I'm just skeptical it's worth the effort when there's no  pressing need.  If there is a pressing need, it's for frames that are getting overguard and don't have any say in it.

Well, we have Energy Nexus... but it's kind of end-gamish. Not sure how Rage & co build would work without it. I'm not sure how easy it's to replace for something else as I'm rarely use Rage builds.

3 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

14 minutes ago, quxier said:

"Not working on X" is bad. It doesn't have to be the best but we need more not less options.

It would be more options than we have now, not fewer.   Players don't need endless options, and developers probably don't need balancing for every option added to their workloads when they've got plenty of other things to do.

It would be more if Rage & co worked on Overguard.

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Maybe Chroma is due for a rework though. Being shutdown by enemies would be one thing, but if you're playing with a Dante in your public squad, you're getting shutdown by an ally... it's not good game design if you have to bow to your allies' whims to get your own buffs to work. I wouldn't even blame the teammates at this point, they're just trying to help you not die, the key issue is that also means you can't even use your frame's kit in the first place because of that.

 

As for Rage/Hunter Adrenaline, I think it just needs to be reworked so that it can regenerate a fixed amount of energy everytime you get hit, with an internal cooldown if needed, regardless of if you did lose health, shields, overshields or overguard.

[Tiltskillet]

22 minutes ago, quxier said:

It would be more if Rage & co worked on Overguard.

Just so we're clear, I'm suggesting making them work (with a penalty) on  allied overguard.  Specifically where the frame can't generate it themselves 

So less options than every frame but more than currently, where they don't work on overguard [full stop].  Which is causing problems for players who aren't opting in to overguard in the first place.

Edited April 4 by Tiltskillet