PC PC Dante Unbound: Deep Archimedea: Hotfix 35.5.3

[DeadxxSmile]

Yeah seeing the update, and that you are just changing "fixing" LoS, I am not going to be buying any more new frames or Prime Access. I've bought but Grendel (wasn't playing at the time) since I started, but you have lost my money at this point, I'm not trusting new frames that are good to not get the same knee jerk nuke from orbit nerf. GG DE

 

EDIT: Oh and I just built a Nezha I was enjoying, that also got destroyed. Thanks for that 

Edited April 4 by DeadxxSmile

[Darth_Predator]

So at this point I'm wondering why we just don't nerf everything back to how it was in 2013?

Will be very balanced, not automated and not disruptive. 

C'mon, DE

[TheBlackAce21]

Oh btw, you fixed the energy efficiency not showing the energy cost problem on the UI and now the Railjack plexus stats page doesn't reflect modded values at all. Necramech's also STILL showing their innate melee stats instead of the ones like health, shields, engine etc.

[SeriousHawk22]

At this point, why even bother to build new frames if they'll get nerfed to the ground. 

Edited April 4 by SeriousHawk22

[Victaghost]

Nah this sucks. There has no been enough time passed to properly determine if these Warframes are actually "dominant" and "broken" and there's unintended interactions that make them stronger that are still unfixed, you can't effectively balance them while those are around. So you come out with "oh we'll do a slight pass on these Warframes" and that "slight pass" becomes a sledgehammer because you listen to people who get scared when a Hek gets out-KPMed on Regular Star Chart.

Dante and Nezha were strong, yes, but certainly no stronger than Gauss and I know Gauss Prime's playrates were stratospheric on release so where's his round of nerfs for "dominance"? The "broken" parts of Gauss are functionally identical to the "broken" parts of Dante after all; he's functionally invincible and presses 3 buttons to kill an entire map. He's actually better at this than Dante by a considerable degree.

Also perhaps the LOS hotfix to address the LOS hotfix wouldn't be necessary if you weren't kneejerking out balance passes as quickly as you can to appease people who have no clue what they're talking about. Also stop buying into Youtube clickbait, jesus christ.

Edited April 4 by Victaghost

[DarkMagicMatter]

So we nerfed arca titron, a weapon that less than 5% of people are running, nerfed dante to be a worse styanax, killed nezha's new augment despite the fact that kullervo and dagath do the same thing, and killed even more CC abilities by buffing enemy overguard! I was planning to buy regal aya too, such a shame.

[Lyblac]

Thanks for all the new content and corrections, but after a long time, the metal details/lighting of these accessories still do not have a fix, which at this point, I feel is unacceptable, considering that it cost real money.
 

 

[Raidoser]

il y a 2 minutes, Kavarosh a dit :

That is the feeling. I will never buy another Warframe set

Sadly that's the only way they will react.

Like a lot of people when i saw a fun wizard frame i decided to buy it directly since good update deserve a little investment in my perception and i was even thinking to do the same with kullervo after i finished making a fun build with dante, now i won't.

 

DE is also putting themselves in a very dangerous situation : https://www.ftc.gov/consumer-protection  (there is the same things in most western countries)

So contrary to some idiot in this post who said "DE can do anything they want" no they can't, because when you make a DevStream telling your consumers one thing then doing the opposite it's called a scam for the simple fact that people who listened to that DevStream may have trusted DE and bought a product (so Dante pack here) based on what the official video told them.

[Kosynth]

Hopefully going forward you consider taking more time on adjustments made on new warframes especially when they have an exalted weapon. It wasn't just 5 formas we put on dante but 5 on noctua also.

[Cavern]

3.5k hours in warframe and first time ever i felt the need to go on the forums. Just like many people have expressed the Dante overguard nerf was expected but i didnt think a 60% reduction would be considered a little tweak. Almost no one was complaining about Dante's nuke since ya tragedy has a large radius, but it wouldn't do anything unless there were status procs on the enemies or you were at low levels with a lot of strength. Pretty disappointed that the new frame i really liked got nerfed pretty badly, with just a week of data on him. Could people who spent forma on him and his book get refunds because this seems a little unfair.

[-KyloRen-]

Am i missing something that im still unable to unlock elite? I finished a run with every debuff on and full loadout and elite is still locked....

[AnonymoZero]

Hey DE, you know anything about this, how do the AI moves when hit with Xata's 2? Is it a thing? Bugged? I don't know what to make of this, but if it's bugged, fix it please.

 

[Exxzo]

4 hours ago, Fosgatt said:

First and last time, I invest forma and shards into a new frame.. one week and nerfed. 

I feel bad for people who actually bought him with plat.

Yeah, me the dunce I bought the plat pack with the lackluster weapons, and I even went and ground out another Dante in disruption for helminth, because I like him so much 4 forma and 4 archon shards plus the $20 or however much it was for the pack. I knew they would Nerf him I thought they’d at least give him a month so I get my moneys worth first damn. let the shine where off.

3 minutes ago, Kosynth said:

Hopefully going forward you consider taking more time on adjustments made on new warframes especially when they have an exalted weapon. It wasn't just 5 formas we put on dante but 5 on noctua also.

Fuuuuu I forgot the three forma in the Noctua 😭😭😭

Edited April 4 by Exxzo

[Ogundiety]

So it looks like other people hit the various points for the most part.  I like dante, but not particularly attached to him, though from people I trust not to overreact the bird status damage especially feels a bit...weird.  Nezha change feels just like too much, so I guess I'll take that mod out (if it had lowered by 25% instead..).

 

However, I do want to express my displeasure with the mechanisms for the new mode.  It's fairly brutal for solo players, in an extremely unfun way, and gating the elite section (which aggressively makes it easier to rank up points for) behind doing a full suite of choices just feels really strange.  Even with this week's obvious weighting on the choices, there are some really problematic situations that can and will arise, and some of the modifiers are, simply, not fun.  Didn't get a frame that can selfheal effectively?  WEll you're in for an extremely annoying and difficult challenge, especially if you can't find someone else to do it with on your level.

 

Looking ahead to the future challenges, the modifiers for things like Mirror defense just make it seem like it will just be miserable, and you can't even use a 'defense' loadout because you need to have the flexibility for other missions.  The 'solution' being 'Well you need to do it with other players' just doesn't seem like a solid one, to me, but perhaps that's just the level of insistence that is supposed to be comfortable at this point?

 

I got through it this week with a friend, but it definitely put a sour taste in my mouth at the thought of doing it again next week, and I feel like I'm going to be dragged in a few times here to help someone do it to unlock elite, because once you've done that you just have what seems to be a significantly easier time getting most of the values.

 

When the thumbs are removed from the scales and we get more actual randomness in, I think most people's interest in doing this is going to be...difficult to muster up.  Most of the challenges (reading from the notes, perhaps they play a bit differently)  just don't seem interesting, just a lot of 'haha you screwed up, now you wasted 25 minutes' encouraging you to play incredibly cautiously.

 

I did like the little invul guys in the exterminate mission, though they really should drain health a hair slower than 'full to dead in .3 seconds' and they also should probably not teleport in front of you while you're going full tilt.  But mechanically they were the only thing I found actually entertaining, so I wouldn't raise a fuss if they were left in as is.  Every other challenge was irritating rather than engaging, for me.

[Ghastly-Ghoul]

17 minutes ago, Raidoser said:

Sadly that's the only way they will react.

Like a lot of people when i saw a fun wizard frame i decided to buy it directly since good update deserve a little investment in my perception and i was even thinking to do the same with kullervo after i finished making a fun build with dante, now i won't.

 

DE is also putting themselves in a very dangerous situation : https://www.ftc.gov/consumer-protection  (there is the same things in most western countries)

So contrary to some idiot in this post who said "DE can do anything they want" no they can't, because when you make a DevStream telling your consumers one thing then doing the opposite it's called a scam for the simple fact that people who listened to that DevStream may have trusted DE and bought a product (so Dante pack here) based on what the official video told them.

Except that players who bought Dante or any item that is farmable payed to skip the grind. This is what DE will classify the purchase as. The nerfs did not affect this purchase.

Edited April 4 by Ghastly-Ghoul

[streepe]

Yeah line of sight on Dante feel really bad. How about going hybrid? You don't need line of sight for enemies within dark verse range, but you do need line of sight beyond that.

[Hawk197]

And just like that, it's Styanax all over again. Dante wasn't automating any part of the game, no idea what the hell you guys are on about with that. What to know a frame that automates gameplay that would fit your definition of "automation"? Mesa. Press 4 to win. Dante doesn't do that. You need at least two other buttons before his 4 can even do anything. Just to give some inclination as to how stupid this argument is, Peacemakers have a 25 energy cost and 9.68 energy drain at base. Dante requires two casts of either 2 or 3, both of which cost 25 energy at base, then his 4 costs 50 energy at base. So Peacemakers right now can be used for 7 seconds. For 7 seconds, you can kill everything within a cone of sight. Dante's Tragedy is heavily bugged, so half the time stuff RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU don't take damage because... Derf Anyo decided to give every single enemy a void barrier that can't be seen?

 

And how about overguard? Well, because DR doesn't affect overguard like it does with overshield, overguard is much easier to take out. This wouldn't be an issue normally, but Dante has low survivability stats as his whole gimmick was suppose to rely on overguard. In total, Dante has an EHP (Effective Health Pool) of 819. Let's compare that to a few other frames that are "casters" shall we? Lavos has an EPH of 2775, Ember has an EPH of 907, and Gyre has an EPH of 1248. Dante can only "outtank" when it comes down to the really squishy frames like Mirage and Nova, who both have a way to reduce damage.

 

Finally, what about fun factor? The concept of loading up on "Verses" to "recite" a poem or such is quite enjoyable, but it doesn't really add anything new. Outside of Wordward and Pageflight, Dante doesn't really have any unique skills. Both Triumph and Tragedy are just beefed up Light and Dark Verses, so really Dante only has 5 unique skills. Compared to Equinox, the first frame that had this "dynamic skill kit", Dante is one note. With Equinox, you're applying shields and armor, cc or debuff, DR or increased damage, and healing or slash nuke. So what we have, is basically Equinox after it's two halves combined, got old, grew a beard, and had to return to the frontlines because "these new kids don't know how to fight a war anymore".

 

I would heavily suggest looking at the nerfs again. The only reason Dante is strong is because most people don't go to level cap. When you go to level cap, Dante struggles, simple as that. He can't nuke as effectively, overguard isn't as good as shield gating, and he lacks the general team buffs, armor strips, and cc that make him a worthwhile team pick compared to Gauss, Chroma, Octavia, Revenant, Ash, and the likes. Dante did need nerfs, but this wasn't how you do it. I'd recommend reverting all changes, then adding a short cooldown timer to each Final Verse, so it promotes players casting more than just 3/3/4, then removing the overguard regen so players have to recast 2/2/4 more often. Beyond that, nothing else was really needed, unless in exchange you buffed. Decreased costs, increased survivability stats, increased damage values, stuff like that if you want these nerfs to stick around.

[PollexMessier]

2 hours ago, Arbitrary said:

It did work on CC "immune" enemies. You just had to be quick about it. The original version of the augment was insanely busted. A 50m AoE that only required you to see 1 enemy to kill everything was far too strong.

It doesn't work on CC immune enemies at all if they're moving. If you're lucky, and they're not moving, and they remain stationary until you can find an enemy to blast with your slash weapon, then sure some of them will go down, maybe, if you have enough status damage to get through overguard or some of the BS invisible resistances some of these enemies have, which severely restricts your build and weapon availability. Even then, most of them are going to not get hit. You might get 2 in a crowd of 15 of them. It's so conditional and outside of the player's control it's barely even worth considering as a factor. For the most part, it doesn't touch them.

And sure, it was op if you're sacrificing build flexibility to max out range. But with more reasonable all-rounder builds it wasn't. Now you need to minmax range just to make it functional. Overextended which is a hit to your strength, plus another range mod, just to get back above base range is an obscenely huge ask. If you want to also use anything else in his kit with any level of effectiveness, you basically just can't use the augment at all now.

Edited April 4 by PollexMessier

[MarkyMark403n]

4 hours ago, Joezone619 said:

and like that limbo is useless.

I mean this is not even remotely true. He's still massively useful and effective if your primary goal is to significantly increase the amount of dead weight in your squad.

[Simeoff]

Nezha's base range being cut 50% on the new augment mod is TOO much

like...do 25-30%, but half?

DE pls..

[Diaxt3r]

Okay, so Dante & Nezha's augment were nerfed to hell AND CC is now even more obselete?

Fantastic!

[Senpai-Of-Food]

gg DE one week is all you gave him how sad, you shouldve given him atleast a month or 2 and then gather all your bs data and see if he realy was to strong or whatever.

i did a 90min survival with inaros while a team mate was playing dante and guess what i had over 3k kills and dante had like 1500 kills, maybe next time actualy try playing your game like most of us then youll see most nerfs you guys do are just bs.

and the nezha augment nerf was also not needed i have barely seen any nezha's the last week to begin with just saying.

so do your part and do an uno reverse on this stuff ty.

[Argon-Queen]

Just want to say that I'm not a fan of random gear for Deep Archimedea, and that I enjoy the game more when I get to use my preferred frame and the likes. Who doesn't have a fave or two, right?

[Kosynth]

But DE, April fools was 3 days ago....

[Sam_Stenton]

As somebody who has a full time job and works long hours I usually log on with friends to relax and chill out, grinding for everything isn't an option for me any more, too many commitments and life things going on, so when I see that shiny Dante pack with fancy cape and armour set included, I start twitching.

A short look at YouTube reveals that he is simple but has some depth to him, I like that, I specifically like frames that need a little bit of extra skill to really make them work well, Dante seemed like a good balance of rotations and timing to get a large reward of damage and support, so I bought the pack, 700 plat for what was at the time a compelling addition to the arsenal and all the shiny that comes with it, made sense to me, looked good on Mag and Rhino, even found use on Excal. 

These nerfs to me just make me realise that my new trust in DE that started to form with the good moves as of recent was highly misplaced and that these knee jerk nerfs will happen regardless, he was not really that powerful in the high level content. 

Even with ridiculous investment with shards and maxed arcane's he would still require status stacked onto enemies to do the big damage and that would lead him to get completely road blocked by eximus and other heavy units as the slash procs alone wouldn't break through at high level play, if the damage AOE was such an issue it should either be reduced in size and concentrated (multiples all current proc counts by 2x fixed) or given a similar treatment to Dagaths cavalry (which goes through everything) LOS isn't a big deal for me as I take it like it is, but if you're going to nerf the area damage and consistency of that damage you need to get the calculator out and determine how much trying not to alter his base damage has actually caused him to feel a lot worse than just dropping the damage multiplier from a base of 3x to 2.25x or 2x

I know it's not your problem what I spend my plat on and it was my own choice but normally when you buy something you get to enjoy it for a while before it breaks, would suggest to avoid this in the future looking at what is actually too strong on a given frames kit and making small adjustments rather than dragging nearly every piece of his kit through the dirt, just reducing the triumph numbers from 5k to 3k for him and 1.5k for allies and removing the status damage bonus from his birbs would have brought his AOE damage back in line, the abilities are pretty set and forget with 60s being easy to get to, just seems like the numbers needed small tweaks and not this massive change that's cause the community to throw him to the trash bin.