Dante and LoS Issues and next steps

[LordOfKenpo]

1 minute ago, mc_polo_on_pc said:

Remove LoS and instead do the following:

• Cut the range of the ability by 50-75% if you are concerned about room nuking
• Decrease the damage output of tragedy by 25-50% if you were concerned about room nuking
• Combination of the 2 former points but the number are now 10-35% instead
• Induce a hard cooldown (ex: 45 second hard cooldown before next tragedy cast) that is unaffected by duration or efficiency.

And to be honest, there are other frames that LoS would make useless. So if the team is hard-pressed on keeping it, too prideful to admit messing up, or other reasonings, go back and do a PTS on LoS id possible. Clearly it isn't ready and seems to be untested. Public relations going to need some hard recovery after this.

I had proposed the following changes to resolve the actual problem and to keep him viable and fun:

1) For the OG issue, make Triumph only apply OG to Dante and reset the values to the original number. I don't see an issue with light verse still applying to allies as it gives a small buff but the amount given shouldn't hurt the build that need to take damage to play too much

2) For Tragedy, if you feel there really needs to be a change, remove LOS and just reduce the range to 75%. Dante is mage themed and mages tend to do AOEs. It feels bad to effectively remove the dps ability from a dps frame as badly as you did and this while weaker definitely wouldn't feel nearly as bad.

3) For Pageflight I understand the change made here wasn't listed, but it was a cool effect and I don't think anyone was upset about it so I think it should have just been added to the description instead of removing the effect (or keep it in a more limited capacity).

[Twisted_Wisdom]

1 minute ago, Iedarus said:

DE seems to be dead set on one meta where only a handful of frames are in the cool kids club and the rest given wedgies and shoved in lockers,

I would give your post a 'like' but as there is a limit on being able to do that - which is another way to skew statistics - and just so many, many posts on this topic now, i can only wait and watch as the list of comments of unhappy warframe players grows.
Dante shouldn't have been given a wedgie and turned into a locker warframe, but as you say he might upset the much loved Meta DE salute as being acceptable. No one else thinks Dante can be another Saryn, Mirage or Octavia. Maybe Dante is an excuse to introduce changes to screw us over progressively on the rest of the game DE will gradually 'update' that none want updated in that manner.
Makes no sense to provide what looks and plays like being an excellent warframe then gutting him, all the while telling us what needs to be fixed (overshield), and not fixing that, but changing something that no one said needed to be changed (damage).
The transparency we get from DE is fake. Its gaslighting.

[mc_polo_on_pc]

1 minute ago, LordOfKenpo said:

I had proposed the following changes to resolve the actual problem and to keep him viable and fun:

1) For the OG issue, make Triumph only apply OG to Dante and reset the values to the original number. I don't see an issue with light verse still applying to allies as it gives a small buff but the amount given shouldn't hurt the build that need to take damage to play too much

2) For Tragedy, if you feel there really needs to be a change, remove LOS and just reduce the range to 75%. Dante is mage themed and mages tend to do AOEs. It feels bad to effectively remove the dps ability from a dps frame as badly as you did and this while weaker definitely wouldn't feel nearly as bad.

3) For Pageflight I understand the change made here wasn't listed, but it was a cool effect and I don't think anyone was upset about it so I think it should have just been added to the description instead of removing the effect (or keep it in a more limited capacity).

TBH I was expecting the OG nerf from the start but man tragedy changes DE did just did not fit right.

I agree with your points but man, they could have done anything else before adding LoS.

[LordOfKenpo]

Clearly DE has seen this since [DE] Danielle pinned this thread about 5 min ago

[CelticShaman]

Why are you absolutely ignoring people's feedback? Why are you pretending that everybody is okay with an LOS change? If you're absolutely against fixing Dante why don't you explain yourself? Give us reasons why Dante is not allowed to hit through walls when other warframes can.

Explain yourselves.

That being said, I still want Dante back the way he was. There's no way he was busted in less than a week. Do like somebody suggested and make a dragon key that removes overguard. Plain and simple.

[Azzaruth]

Just remove the flipping LoS!

[[DE]Danielle]

The LoS changes Pablo mentioned in the OP launched today! So we're closing this thread to direct everyone to the latest updates: 

• Deployed Hotfix today to improve Tragedy's Line of Sight checks (full details in patchnotes) 
• Shared our plans for a hotfix next week that will address the following (full details here):
  • Adding back and formalizing the Status Damage Vulnerability to Dante's "Pageflight". In other words not just making enemies take more Status procs, but also increasing the damage of their Status
  • Improving the co-op play between Warframes that give their teammates Overguard and Warframes that rely on taking damage.

In an effort to centralize feedback, you can continue to share your thoughts in the dedicated Dante Feedback Subforum. 

 

[Volgona]

Look. I understand he was a bit too strong out of the gate. But line of sight is fundamentally a really bad feeling mechanic. If you want to nerf his 4, remove the line of sight check and put in a cone, like what his 3 already does. This would both be synergistic with his 3 and also a visual indicator such as "i used my 3, i can see the enemies i hit, so if i cast my 4 now it will hit those same enemies. 

As it is, even after the "fix", the line of sight continues to be in an extremely bad place and i really wish it were just a cone like his 3 is without the line of sight check. 
Thanks.
-Vol