Dante and LoS Issues and next steps

[Emwue]

21 minutes ago, [DE]Pablo said:

One silver lining that came from this mistake is that we have decided we will revisit older LoS checks to use this improved version in a future update.

OMG, I can't believe that for the first time since her release, Ember is finally getting a buff... ;)

Genuinely through, thank you for finally fixing LoS checks, after players literally reporting problems with them for a decade now, this will be a massive change for quite a few frames, improving game substantially. :)

[Zahnrad]

Out of curiosity, has "Line of Sight Punch Through" ever been attempted?

[MasterControl]

Pablo, I really appreciate that you guys are trying your best to communicate your intentions, and I think a look at LOS as a whole is warranted. However, Tragedy getting an LOS check feels bad for a few reasons. The primary one right now is that LOS has a history of being incredibly inconsistent, yes, but also because most methods of applying status for tragedy are *already* line of sight, and you are fundamentally applying multiple layers of los checks that are functionally unnecessary. It also is locked behind 3 casts, which is quite a bit of time for a situation to change in a way that line of sight becomes a problem.

[PontiacJones]

Thanks for looking into this and I do look forward to these changes being applied to other frames suffering from LoS issues.

That said, I do not agree with the Dante nerfs. Obviously, I don't have the stats that DE has to determine how successful or overplayed a frame is, but it seems like Dante hadn't been out long enough to determine whether he was "dominating" or not. I would think that you would want your new frame to be getting a lot of players, that is a sign you made an interesting frame to play that people like.

I guess I'm waiting to get Jade for a while to be sure I'm not wasting resources.

Edited April 5 by PontiacJones

[Void2258]

The whole issue that started this is OG blocking "health damage". Just make it count as that for proc purposes. None of these other changes were needed to address the actual complaint, and this change made to OG itself fixes ALL the interaction issues, whereas adjusting the values on Dante alone neither addresses the issue for him nor fixes it for other places it comes up.

The LOS thing isn't even an issue that was problematic, so why are you shooting yourselves in the foot over it?

[Carlosmann100]

Just CANCEL the Dante nerfs!! If Dante deserves line of sight, then Saryn and thermal sunder deserves line of sight.

Do you really want your player base to keep returning and playing the same old boring frames over and over again?

REVERT the nerfs!! They are NOT justified.

[-ShadowRadiance-]

7 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Wait really?

Huh..I did not know that, thanks for telling me

Yes. Really. 

YW.

I would have liked like 100+ posts but i cant.

[Numerounius]

Why weren't these well-known prolific bugs, with the most notorious example not listed here of Whipclaw LOS check, fleshed out and fixed before shipping out another change with the intent of using the existing bugged mechanic that should've been fixed first?

This isn't exclusive to this issue, there is a handful of other issues like this.

[VadinParastin]

This is just not what the community wants, LoS makes him so bad people won't want to play him anymore, LoS has always made frames worse, look a Khora for example.

Please listen to the community, he wasn't even the best nuke frame out there and most warframes can destroy regular path, this is not the way forward and doesn't even address the original complaints that were warframes using Rage or Hunter Adrenaline not working with overguard, also for warframes that need to be damaged to work, this change is uncalled for.

[Stelthmastr]

23 minutes ago, Aturixios said:

If you're skewering Dante this much might as well go for LoS on Saryn and Equinox too

Stop it, don't make me uninstall

[MrBeat2827]

I gotta stand on the fact that I really loved the mindless nuke because I’m more of a solo player anyway and the LOS change PLUS the nerf on Overguard makes it difficult to manage energy even with the energy siphon AND arcane energize AND Energy nexus mod….i just can’t play Dante like that because these changes make him useless!! The damage increase on the book wordwarden? doesn’t help. The reason I mainly don’t use it is because my weapons kill enemies with the first shot and the book doesn’t shoot until I hit an enemy with a shot! That ability is practically useless. [DE] Pablo and any other DE member that will listen and can make actual change [DE] Danielle please, please revert the changes on Dante. He was perfect as is. Catering to elite players is why I left Destiny. Don’t make me leave here too. Please…

[JustKelsey]

Pablo, we dont need another warframe that is restricted to LoS just turn down the damage and only make it scale when the enemy has status effects/procs. That way other warframes synergize better with his play style. In other words, in order fot he enemy to take alot of damage he needs to be proced with something from another warframe or gun! 

[desdendelle]

Can y'all use this fix to fix how, if there's a teeny tiny ledge between you and the enemy, you can't cast Voruna's 2 at them?

[LioncubPrime]

I am sorry to say that it looks like even Pablo wants to defend the decisions they made earlier on the line of sight, no matter what he said at the beginning that they botched the patch. You know you did something very wrong, fix it rather than saying any solution to have the issue even more patchy. This is the way people will leave the frame and eventually the game. There have been plenty suggestions to fix Dante, so please open your mind and try to fix it right rather than keep defending the botched execution.

[_GoodLuck_]

Revert the changes. Just agree that you made the bad decisions

Edited April 5 by _GoodLuck_
typo and grammar

[Stelthmastr]

29 minutes ago, [DE]Pablo said:

One silver lining that came from this mistake is that we have decided we will revisit older LoS checks to use this improved version in a future update.

 

This is great news. Does this mean a second look at how LoS works for abilities like Whipclaw and mods like Acid Shells?

[DeadlyDullahan]

It's nice that the LOS system is finally getting looked at after so many years. Unfortunate that it comes as a result of being tone deaf.

[Mohawk666ImI]

21 minutes ago, Waeleto said:

There actually no way all the feedback is flying over your heads like that, you have well over 100+ pages of feedback on the LoS and overguard but you're still not listening

Yeah cuz it's low quality feedback. You can just move and then do the final verse, you know, use some skill to know your positioning and what you'll hit, it's fine. While yes they have said it's glitched, the Nerf as intended doesn't stop you from doing ridiculous amounts of damage, it just stops you from mindlessly soaking dark and finial all the time. It makes you think about casting before you spam it anyway cuz you're just going to miss something around the corner,  2.5 seconds before you can see it and already about to cast it again .

 

 

Td:lr your feedback is bad and you should do better 

[Darkauscus]

Full revert or bust tbh. Sorry nerfing an A tier frame just does not make sense

[MistressOfDreams]

16 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

That's a good change.
Don't listen to people asking for a revert, if they want AoE nuke across walls, they don't actually want to play the game.

Tell me you never played Warframe without telling me you never played warframe

[Rihenwn]

hace 32 minutos, [DE]Pablo dijo:

We botched the LoS change to Dante yesterday, I apologize for shipping it in that state. We will be making changes later today to improve it, details ahead.

Saryn, Volt, Mirage, Xaku and other warframes were never limited by LoS. Dante DOES NOT NEED LOS. You delivered a warframe one way, you should keep it that way. 

There's people who paid money for this. You're failing your community all over again, from the second you decided to introduce a warframe without submitting it to proper testing, to making drastic changes to it and expecting your playerbase to be okay with it.

 

[Waeleto]

4 minutes ago, -ShadowRadiance- said:

Yes. Really. 

YW.

I would have liked like 100+ posts but i cant.

Yea it sucks i can't like anything on this thread

[DeityOfBlood]

If you are dead set on this LOS nightmare then shouldn't all frames abide by it?

Edited April 5 by DeityOfBlood

[TwistedEventide0666]

Why can’t you just remove LoS from Tragedy entirely? Adding it feels like a slap to the face to the players who were enjoying having another nuke frame who was then nerfed into the ground a week after launch. Especially when there’s multiple frames that have similar mechanics to Tragedy that haven’t been made LoS, like Equinox’s Maim, Saryns Miasma and Spores just to name a few. LoS should never have been added to Dante and while we appreciate that LoS changes are coming a lot of us want it removed from Dante entirely. As for the overguard changes, the only thing you really changed was how fast a player can generate the overguard, a better fix would have either made it so it doesn’t effect squad mates at all or reduced the range for the squad aspect of it. 

[Numerounius]

Hello Pablo! Thank you for sharing details on the public forums where everyone can view them freely instead of on Twitter. Do you mind continuing this trend of cross-posting Warframe development information here on the forums as well instead of leaving information exclusive to twitter users who have to remain logged in to view the contents of the post?

Again, thank you!