PC PC Dante Unbound: Hotfix 35.5.4

[Gandalf_White]

15 minutes ago, TheBlackAce21 said:

I have been keeping a close eye on this the entire time because Dante might be my favorite warframe release in a LONG time. To those talking about LoS revert? You are wrong. He was too strong on release and if you think otherwise, you don't understand enough about how the game works. Even post nerf, his toolkit utility from pageflight and wordwarden alone make him one of the strongest warframes for weapon utility in the game. FULL STOP.

The ability to apply status effects is a major part of the weapon damage meta right now and he has the ability to add status chance and it's multiplicative to base status. That's ABSOLUTELY INSANE. It allows for status chance values that will let you scale heat procs to a stupid level and that's not even counting the effect it has on Gun CO just by itself.

Wordwarden just adds a floating secondary shot that deals a lot of damage for what it is and can be further used to stack status chances you otherwise wouldn't be able to stack with a single gun and companion alone. MORE damage on guns.

Then overguard. Doesn't even matter what state it's in, he has overguard regen and that mechanic has it's own gating outside shields. It's strong as hell on its OWN. And yet we are focused on the fact that he doesn't get a stupidly op range nuke ability as well? It still functions as an AoE coneless expedite suffering. AND it has damage of it's own. It's stupidly strong even with LoS and the fact that it sparked a return to addressing LoS bugs is GREAT for the health of the game.

 

DE I know you are getting a lot of flak right now, and I want you to know that there are people like myself clapping at how this is being handled. I'm overjoyed to see the direction this whole thing has gone. Dante feels strong and balanced. Plus LoS is getting a solid look. I couldn't be happier right now.

You are so out of the loop I can't even believe it.

Most people here are complaining about his fluidity being ruined. Almost nobody cares about him not being yet another OP, boring, bland weapons platform...

[Amen-san]

1 hour ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

I hope your favorite frame receives changes at some point (AKA: Gets completely gutted) just so I can see you mald and seethe on the forums. Then we'll see how well you "deal with it"

People who live in glass houses and all that.

My favorite frame in the past was Limbo. I know the feeling of them getting gutted when DE added more mechanics that ignored the rift, his main mechanic. And I've dealt with it. Try better next time. 

Edited April 5 by Amen-san

[asdf3011]

52 minutes ago, Pretzellis said:

Lol.  Why are you still playing seeing as you hold this mindset?  Enlighten me with your sound logic as to why you continue to engage with something that provides such 'fun' to you.  Or plead the 5th.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Cause I have fun playing the game, but that does not mean the game could not do some stuff better. Just cause I have playing on the new tile set does not mean that I would not enjoy the tile set more if certain stairs stopped causing out of bounds buff resets for example just for walking up them. If daily resets are too much and people use it to run same builds over and over, you could then lower how fast it resets to over two days or even more. However it seems healthy for me if it did reset more then once a week, just because you still be disincentivized by having to wait for the next day before you get a different option set. 

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

1 minute ago, Amen-san said:

My favorite frame in the past was Limbo. I know the feeling of them getting gutted when DE added more mechanics that ignored the rift. And I've dealt with it. Try better next time. 

That's your own fault for being apathetic. I have no sympathy for you. 

[Cpt.Casual]

 

I was so excited for Dante. I am a dad with limited time to play, and therefore accumulate resources, so I tend not to invest into frames before their primes come out. But I loved his theme, his ability to support the team while being survivable himself, and with high investment also be able to nuke low-to-medium level enemies.  I decided I'd finally go all-in; I bought the full pack, no less, so I could access him right away and have all the stellar cosmetics. More so than most frames, Dante takes heavy investment to make him excel; he really doesn't have a dump stat, so you kind of have to invest, or at least not reduce, all of them. That means ranking up a lot of end-game mods and investing a lot of forma. I put one of my few Umbral Forma, and 3 regular forma into him, and naively did the same for Nezha prime because his new augment filled the gap I perceived to make him worth investing in. I feel like I played an April Fools Day joke on myself. 

@[DE]Megan, I couldn't be more disappointed by the initial knee-jerk reaction and now this "fix" that still doesn't address the problem people had with overguard. The problem with overguard was that it shut down teammate's abilities that required taking damage to health, not that one frame was generating too much of it. Even with the launch numbers of OG, it was getting torn through in Netracells, which is the level of content you can expect players to be accessing when they play this endgame frame.  Furthermore, no one was complaining about Triumph not needing LoS when you have frames like Saryn, Octavia, Mesa, Guass, and more who nuke whole rooms more effectively, with less investment, at higher levels, and are available earlier in the game.

I truly hope you reconsider returning Dante to his launch state (perhaps reduce 4's range or add damage falloff if you really think it's out of line), fix how Overguard interacts with Rage/Hunter Adrenaline builds, and have the penalty to Nezha's augment apply additively instead of multiplicatively. It's just not worth buying frames, or heavily investing in them, if they are likely to get nerfed so hard, so fast. Surely this is what playtesting before releasing content is for, right? I'd love for a way to get my Umbral Formas, several regular Forma, and resources for Archon shard placement back... 

I guess I'll go play Revenant, Wisp, or Saryn, like everyone is supposed to. 

[Amen-san]

Just now, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

That's your own fault for being apathetic. I have no sympathy for you. 

Okay. I don't think I asked for it? But thanks for letting me know anyways. 

[--RV--Honda]

1 hour ago, RivaAurelius said:

I will be requesting a refund for Dante. This is ridiculous and leaves a horrible taste in the mouth.

Its ok bro dont cry. 😁

[AR_Has]

how can you be this disconnected with your community? we dont CARE about the OG we want his 3rd 4th synergy back , WHY THE NEED FOR 2 LOS TO DEAL DMG , STOP screwing with us , ''we listen to your feedback'' NO YOU DONT , HOW BUFFING HIS OG BACK IS LISTENING TO US??????????????? 

[Sin3z]

6 minutes ago, TheBlackAce21 said:

I have been keeping a close eye on this the entire time because Dante might be my favorite warframe release in a LONG time. To those talking about LoS revert? You are wrong. He was too strong on release and if you think otherwise, you don't understand enough about how the game works. Even post nerf, his toolkit utility from pageflight and wordwarden alone make him one of the strongest warframes for weapon utility in the game. FULL STOP.

The ability to apply status effects is a major part of the weapon damage meta right now and he has the ability to add status chance and it's multiplicative to base status. That's ABSOLUTELY INSANE. It allows for status chance values that will let you scale heat procs to a stupid level and that's not even counting the effect it has on Gun CO just by itself.

Wordwarden just adds a floating secondary shot that deals a lot of damage for what it is and can be further used to stack status chances you otherwise wouldn't be able to stack with a single gun and companion alone. MORE damage on guns.

Then overguard. Doesn't even matter what state it's in, he has overguard regen and that mechanic has it's own gating outside shields. It's strong as hell on its OWN. And yet we are focused on the fact that he doesn't get a stupidly op range nuke ability as well? It still functions as an AoE coneless expedite suffering. AND it has damage of it's own. It's stupidly strong even with LoS and the fact that it sparked a return to addressing LoS bugs is GREAT for the health of the game.

 

DE I know you are getting a lot of flak right now, and I want you to know that there are people like myself clapping at how this is being handled. I'm overjoyed to see the direction this whole thing has gone. Dante feels strong and balanced. Plus LoS is getting a solid look. I couldn't be happier right now.

Just to clarify off the start, i just want to make a comparison to another frame that is fairly loved by the community. Gauss performs simalar in that regard as well. He is an amazing weapons platform frame with great ways to negate/prevent damage with a very similar "op range nuke ability".

He buffs fire rate(which essentially buffs the status rate and dps of any weapon being used), reload speed, attack speed, and casting speed the ability to stagger/ knockdown enemies at will and his nuke doesnt require power strength and is only reliant on the amount of heat procs on target in order to kill.

Dante provides his team with overguard and overguard regen to keep his team alive, gauss provides  massive aoe armor strip to help him and his team have an easier time killing enemies. Keep in mind both frames could disregard the team and just "nuke" the map if they want. So all thats left is which one could do that easier/faster and that would be gauss everytime. Other than that what would be the massive difference, everyframe can be a weapons platform and some weapons dont even care about the frame being played when built right. You could simply run around as volt or nezha with a torid and kill things before your team sees them, so imo theres not much of a difference there besides how people want to kill the enemies.

[Zalteze]

This is honestly the first time I am complaining about a nerf. 

This is the worst nerf to a frame i've seen to date. LOS is so inconsistent that it's not worth using. Meanwhile you've got Mesa, Octavia, Wisp and Saryn still sitting on top with 0 rebalance in recent times. Dante was the first frame in a long time that felt good to play and after the forma I spent on him I was happy. But instead you nerf him mere days post launch. I want my forma back. 

You need to stop nerfing frame and start buffing the old frames. My god Nyx is drowning in a corner with no support in god knows how long yet you'd rather nerf Dante, a fun balanced frame. 

If you won't nerf the top 4 frames by community vote then every frame should be brought to the same standard or alternatively nerf every frame as you seem to be pushing the anti nuke builds atm. 

[TzXtetriC]

Why not just change Overguard to Tap to give allies OG and Hold to give it to yourself

[Iamthepancake]

please review the nezha augment nerf again

[AadaDV]

Make that 5 meters base (so that range would be at least a little bit more useful in his current state of having LoS), or 10 meters fixed.

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

 

• Improved Tragedy’s Line of Sight checks per enemy to be much more forgiving and reliable to fix the many cases players reported of not being able to hit enemies at all. Now, it considers not only the enemies that Dante sees but also those visible on screen/via the camera—so any part of them, big or small, is considered visible/eligible to pass the LoS check.  
  • To break that down a bit deeper: 
    •  Enemies positioned directly behind or in front of Dante 
      • We have made it so that enemies within 5 meters of Dante are automatically considered visible; no LoS checks are required. 
    • Enemies barely in cover or who had just run to cover
    • Enemies positioned at a different height to Dante where they are still partially in view 

Light Verse and Triumph Overguard Increases: 
The second pillar of feedback we want to address is our changes to Dante’s Overguard capabilities. We went too deep with the initial decrease and are, therefore, bumping up the Overguard gain from Light Verse and Triumph to a middle ground between their pre- and post-balance states.   

• Increased the Overguard gained from Light Verse from 250 to 350 at Max Rank.
• Increased the Overguard gained from Triumph from 2000 to 3000 at Max Rank.

 

Seeing as the previous OG gained from Light Verse and Triumph to be 500 and 5000 respectively before Hotfix #3, this comparison becomes 

• Increased the Overguard gained from Light Verse from 500 to 350 at Max Rank.
• Increased the Overguard gained from Triumph from 5000 to 3000 at Max Rank.

Now I'm not saying to revert it back to 500 and 5000 (although that would be nice since your current highest difficulty content shreds shields and health like wet paper mache on even the average Tenno's best build.), but at least increase the base Overguard / Sec on Triumph higher (I'd say about 200 but I'll leave the real number crunching to you guys.) so that it encourages a more active playstyle, always trying to keep the regeneration up with seeking out enemies to get the most out of Triumph (as opposed to the previous trend of casting Triumph a bunch of times and ignoring most enemies, only attacking when feeling threatened). 

If you take away anything though, please let it be this one thing:
If I had to suggest a change, make either Dark Verse or Tragedy have LoS and have the other one not have LoS. That way the LoS would still be effective on both skills; the scenario would be to apply the slash on the enemy with Dark Verse without LoS and have the player try to find the enemy so they can hit said enemy with Tragedy
OR
have the player go around finding and applying slash to the enemy with Dark Verse that has LoS and then the player could detonate those statuses in the range of Tragedy with no LoS requirement.
Basically
slash first through wall, find enemy and cast Tragedy
or
find enemy and slash, Tragedy through wall after

A bit of a personal note:
I previously considered Range to be a necessary stat for him to put him at his best potential. Now I think I'll just focus on his Ability Strength with no regard to his Range in harder missions, and make him basically a melee circle deleter.

Btw your Abilities clip for Triumph in Final Verse is still 500 Light Verse and 5000 Triumph.

[VarjakPrime]

Remove the fog from orbiter it looks bad with dark colors.

[Zephyrean]

Now we'll have whole hotfixes of trying to fix the mistake you made, which could have been fixed simply by reverting the change. It was not overpowered, look at Saryn. Or other frames. Why LOS does not matter on many frames while it matters to you on Dante so much? This feels like a real bait and switch tactics to me. I do not care that much about Overguard amount, but you are losing face every single day with this backwards speak you employ.

Yes, you listen, but you choose to do what you want anyways. And also... Nezha spear augment area is reduced by approx 78% (because of the way circle area is calculated) is a slight change also? Yeah... very slight tweak. Please, at least if you decide to screw us, do not call it a favor.

[maaleru]

5 минут назад, VarjakPrime сказал:

Remove the fog from orbiter it looks bad with dark colors.

At least give us the opportunity to decide whether we want fog or not.

 

[RivaAurelius]

16 minutes ago, --RV--Honda said:

Its ok bro dont cry. 😁

Can you honestly tell me what you get out of being a little twerp?

[Isendur88]

The soft LoS is fine, DE really wanted to punish the ppl who bought this frame with money so I don't know what they expected. Will the next buff to Dante and Nezha be just as impulsive as this nerf?

Nezha getting a nerf to range is fine, but the -50% amount is too drastic - get it to -25% and we can call it a day.

Hope whoever decided on this form of nerf keeps on checking the statistics of how much will Dante's and Nezha's usage goes down compared to days before the nerf.

[Simeoff]

1 hour ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Hey Tenno! Sharing here that we also have plans for a Hotfix next week that will address the following: 

• Adding back and formalizing the Status Damage Vulnerability to Dante's "Pageflight". In other words not just making enemies take more Status procs, but also increasing the damage of their Status. 
• Improving the co-op play between Warframes that give teammates Overguard and Warframes that rely on taking damage. 

Full details here: 

 

We want a change on the Nezha augment mod nerf too

Please address it..

[I-Mad_Genius]

Please undo the Dante changes

[DrLego]

3 hours ago, Museigen said:

Done some tests, ten minutes of steel path mot, and my partial considerations are:

- First, about Tragedy. It's actually functional, now. But there's still bugs and unintended things happening, like enemies that are covered by our warframe by the camera perspective being not hit and some other inconsistencies. I think they are still getting cover by they own allies sometimes, but I'm not sure. All in all, still in a rough state, should be more tested and perfected before implementation from the very begining, but at least this band-aid is better than letting completely broken like it was on the 35.5.3 hotfix.
- About Triumph and Overguard. Now is less of a hassle to deal with. But I still feels it's really lacking. My suggestion is to buff the overguard buff  that gives og by kill, maybe double its effect. It's way more interesting to maintain the overguard with killing than with renewed casts, yet we will still need to renew the buff.
- Wordwarden. Nothing great, but it's ok. My build intend to use all the frame, so I didn't helminthed my exalted and I actually use it to kill some things. Didn't notice anything great here. It's working how it was working, and that is ok. This is not a weapon platform frame.

-Pageflight I really think the nerf was completely uncalled for. Its only niche is to deal with single tanky unites, the dot amplification was good for that. You take it out and the only thing it does is prime one unit at a time slowly. This is useless and not how a primer should work. Without aoe, there's no primer.

That is it for now. I really think you should have taken the nerf slower, instead of recovering him to form slowly. If you had an intention to make LoS better, make it better and only then apply it to Dante if needed. There's a lot of other frames in desperate need of attention right now. The tweak should be a ±10% performance at a time to see how things go. Not to cut off the frame's legs and see how it walks with a walking stick. Again, your initial approach of saying one thing and doing another was wrong to begin with.

EDIT: Just saw the news that pageflight will be returned to form. This is another step in the right direction. Thank you.

Oh neat. Thanks for putting in the work of reviewing Dante's abilities.

[Diaxt3r]

2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

We value your input and how it helps us iterate and improve together. Thank you, Tenno.

No, you do not. There's literally 100+ pages asking to remove LoS from Tragedy, and yet you are doubling down on it.

"After much review and feedback consideration, we recognized that it’s not the damage Dante can deal that needed to be addressed, but rather his accumulation of Overguard." Sure...

[TheBlackAce21]

25 minutes ago, Sin3z said:

Just to clarify off the start, i just want to make a comparison to another frame that is fairly loved by the community. Gauss performs simalar in that regard as well. He is an amazing weapons platform frame with great ways to negate/prevent damage with a very similar "op range nuke ability".

He buffs fire rate(which essentially buffs the status rate and dps of any weapon being used), reload speed, attack speed, and casting speed the ability to stagger/ knockdown enemies at will and his nuke doesnt require power strength and is only reliant on the amount of heat procs on target in order to kill.

Dante provides his team with overguard and overguard regen to keep his team alive, gauss provides  massive aoe armor strip to help him and his team have an easier time killing enemies. Keep in mind both frames could disregard the team and just "nuke" the map if they want. So all thats left is which one could do that easier/faster and that would be gauss everytime. Other than that what would be the massive difference, everyframe can be a weapons platform and some weapons dont even care about the frame being played when built right. You could simply run around as volt or nezha with a torid and kill things before your team sees them, so imo theres not much of a difference there besides how people want to kill the enemies.

Gauss also has more limited range to Dante, less offensive and defensive utility for his TEAM and his nuke doesn't scale very well beyond being an armor stripping bot which other abilitys can also do much more effectively at scaled play.

Dante provides all these weapon and defensive buffs to himself AND the team. Dante also has damage multiplication on DoT abilities which when paired with any other DoT applying warframe could provide insane amounts of raw damage scaling into unprecedented levels of play. Now, there are other ways to deal with those problems aside from LoS but I think using LoS to address it when the rest of his kit is as useful to the team as it is isn't a bad thing.

I see the comparison you are trying to make but I think we will infinitely disagree that a LoS nerf is an unacceptable way to deal with the situation. I'd rather have AoE LoS expedite than removing that mechanic and keeping it a nuke every day of the week. Why? Because it adds methods of play and utility that other warframes don't have and that makes Dante more interesting and less mindless. I count that as a positive.

[Goat80]

I truthfully appreciate the fact that the community absolutely lost it yesterday and the Devs realized they goofed hard. At least they're admitting fault and somewhat reverting what's been done. In that consideration though, Nezha's Divine Retribution augment could only effect trash units. Can you folks not gut the bejesus out of the range of that mod? It legitimately cannot effect ANYTHING immune to CC as it is, so gutting 50% of the range just by applying a mod to maintain trash units is like taking a hammer to someone's a brand new laptop and expecting it to work fine. Smh! If there was an unintended result that was taking out eximus or acolytes, I could've fully understood a change. But to gut the range to 50% no matter the build on a brand new augment is just ridiculous. Especially when (as I've said earlier) all he was able to do was nuke crap enemies that the Acrid could kill. Come on DE?! Y'all showed up like the Koolaid man on your own stuff and slammed through the wall with a smile expecting us to be happy, yet we never had realistic time to use the new stuff. You folks are going to run people off if you keep making these broad stroke nerfs. I thought that maybe you would've learned your lesson with the Khora Whipclaw nerf back in 2022 and the backlash that came from that. But apparently not. Please be better than this. I enjoy this game VERY MUCH and I don't want to see it destroyed by its own development team because players aren't going to want to invest their time into a game that's constantly gutting its own content with no regard for a players time invested. I'm honestly begging you here! Please stop dropping sledgehammers into content and have an insane belief that the community that keeps them running will continually take it lying down. 

[TheBlackAce21]

38 minutes ago, Gandalf_White said:

You are so out of the loop I can't even believe it.

Most people here are complaining about his fluidity being ruined. Almost nobody cares about him not being yet another OP, boring, bland weapons platform...

The point I'm making isn't that he is JUST a weapons platform, it's that he is strong in many ways and having a nuke on top of all that would be too much. He also provides this "weapon platform" stuff to his ENTIRE team, which other warframes with similar weapons platform play styles generally do not do. And he has insane defensive utility on top of it.

This is a game that has guns. I like to shoot those guns. I don't like mindless ability casting. There are other games for that. Striking a balance between abilities and weapons makes the game more fun and this is part of that. Sorry to say but I think you and I just have different goals for this game.