[Dante Unbound] Our plans for next week (35.5.6)

[Renkuya]

6 minutes ago, DeadlyDullahan said:

Yea the unfortunate reality is that this will likely amount to another point in time where the community was unhappy with their actions (again) because they elected to ignore concerns and grievances (again) where a fraction of players drop the game (again) and DE will move on with the notion that the players they've lost are just negligible numbers on paper and not actual people (a g a i n)

The sad part is they won't see it as a misstep, they'll just see it as a small profit loss. or maybe I'm wrong and enough people actually end up refunding their tennocon tickets to prove a point. who knows.

I had plans to buy PA and the digital tennocon thing. I've bought the last 3 years of physical merch boxes and I've loved doing so. I was in the middle of finishing off pal world with a group of friends and planned to come back and spend then. I won't now. I've been here since 2013, I've experienced a lot of DE's "blunders" but it's pretty stomach turning to see this 35+ page thread being utterly ignored. They're not even commenting on the nezha augment which honestly confuses me to new levels. I've loved and hated Warframe the entire time I've played it, loved it because the lore is great and the gameplay is even better. I hated it because DE seem scattered in what they want warframe to be and throw all this weird crap into the game and then forget about it. I still have friends that won't return because of how railjack launched. I've been talking up DE as of late, I really felt like they were finally getting it and releasing banger update after banger update. There were still some questionable patches but it was way more "love" than "hate". This Dante and Nezha thing feels like old DE, it feels like a company that has their own thoughts about things and entirely ignores feedback. I mean, seriously the initial nerf wasn't even to address feedback, they had a gut feeling dante would be too strong (too dominant) and so they nerfed him the best they could while totally ignoring actual feedback. This new LoS being broken and over complicated is just yet another "DE moment" where you're left scratching your head wondering what happened.

[Fairuslolomg]

En 5/4/2024 a las 14:15, Merrcenary dijo:

I wonder how quickly the developers will comply with the demands of the players and return everything to the imbalanced state that was before the patches? or will they show firmness, as was the case with the nerf of Wukong, and not make concessions?

I admit that Tragedy was broken af. You could erase Hydron entire population in one cast. But LoS change just let the ability practically useless. They should instead make it the way it was before and reduce the base range from 30m to 15-20. No point on destroying that ability I that way. This is truly a tragedy

[Prof-Dante]

Tell me lies tell me sweet little lies ~

[NuxWalpurgis]

@[DE]Momaw@[DE]Pablo@[DE]Rebecca

So a reply about one single off-topic comment about Mesa and FPS, yet not a single response about Dante? Who is the topic of the entire thread? You're shoving your own reputation down the gutter, because this outrage you've been seeing isn't just about Dante at this point.

Reverse the patch and stop f***ing with us. The broken, janky, unwarranted LoS addition is ruining framerate and defeats the entire purpose of Tragedy, which is a detonation for Dante's LoS setup.

More importantly, if you want a reputation of listening to your community feedback, maybe at least give us the decency to respond to our concerns??

What the actual hell?

[TheGreaterWar]

So, if im reading this right, Dante was nerfed for affecting players with skills that want them to be damaged. And I agree with all these changes being applied to remedy this problem, but why was he changed to line of sight?

If he's effecting other player's, then why not fix it and not touch his damaging ability's? If anything this was a problem with the design choice of giving some frames builds and mods that makes them want to take damage, and then designing warframes that make it harder for this play style to exists. These changes will allow these older, wanting to take damage builds to continue to work and keep up with the direction that these warframes design's are going, but non of this called for Dante himself to be nerfed.

If Dante was nerfed for giving over guard to allies, then what about protea's shield regen, Stynax's overgaurd, Revenants augment to give god mode, Limbo's banish, all of these warframe's also have the ability to make it harder for allie's to take damage. So why did Dante get the axe?

 

(Edit: So if Chroma can then charge his damage without taking damage, Shouldn't the augment that just came out be changed to just be, "Vex armor duration increased by 1 second per kill". Cause the damage if puts you through isnt work getting vex armor going so the increase duration would be the ONLY positive that the augment has.)

Edited April 9 by TheGreaterWar

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

14 minutes ago, Prof-Dante said:

Tell me lies tell me sweet little lies ~

@[DE]Rebecca can do that for you if you want 

Hmm yes a small tweak then boom Dante gets nerfed to the ground 

[Kerlism]

On 2024-04-08 at 2:24 PM, [DE]Momaw said:

We just tested this as both host and client and didn't see an obvious difference in how long it takes to kill an enemy between being capped at 30fps versus the host running unlimited on a high spec PC (over 400fps).

If you're seeing an issue with Peacemaker time-to-kill being affected by frame rate that can be verified with a video recording and a stopwatch, we need more details how to set up the test 😅

If I still had any faith left in DE then seeing this is genuinely making whatever iota of faith I had left completely vanish. There isn't room to say "We haven't read these yet sorry" anymore, that'd be quite the boldfaced lie to try and tell. This is just a transparent display that they couldn't give less of a f**k in regards to player feedback on some of the most knee-jerk and unnecessary changes I've seen in this game's history.

[OneOmniverse]

6 hours ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

That just makes it even worse 

It needs one of your settings to even be decently playable that just makes it even crapyer of a mechanic 

Damn I forgot about that yikes 🙄 just keeps getting worse 

[Renkuya]

40 minutes ago, Kerlism said:

If I still had any faith left in DE then seeing this is genuinely making whatever iota of faith I had left completely vanish. There isn't room to say "We haven't read these yet sorry" anymore, that'd be quite the boldfaced lie to try and tell. This is just a transparent display that they couldn't give less of a f**k in regards to player feedback on some of the most knee-jerk and unnecessary changes I've seen in this game's history.

The crazy thing to me, even if Dante never gets reverted, why can't they say, "We're looking at the Nezha augment"? Dante is debatable, fine. -50% base range on that augment mod is a crime. They released an augment mod and then instantly destroyed it to the point no sane person would use it. And all so Nezha couldn't clear trash off the map...

[Kerlism]

On 2024-04-08 at 10:19 PM, Renkuya said:

The crazy thing to me, even if Dante never gets reverted, why can't they say, "We're looking at the Nezha augment"? Dante is debatable, fine. -50% base range on that augment mod is a crime. They released an augment mod and then instantly destroyed it to the point no sane person would use it. And all so Nezha couldn't clear trash off the map...

Yeah, the augment was strong but -50% range was overkill. Divine Spears has been so meh for quite awhile and finally having a reason to use it was the breath of fresh air Nezha needed, but instead of a fair nerf like -25% or -20% they instead made it totally worthless. On the other hand, Dante getting LoS on Tragedy addresses nothing other than maybe spamming it for low level, which well, other frames can do that exact thing too lmao. Dante doesn't have any innate tools to spread status through walls regardless so it feels like they weren't even thinking, and although they tried addressing people's complaints about overguard messing with health damage benefits, their first way of doing so was through mindless number reductions that severely reduced the impact of his generation methods rather than making overguard work with these buffs in some way (which at least they want to address now I guess).

[NyteStryker_1357]

We all want the LoS reverted off of Tragedy, that much has been made blatantly clear. There is another topic on this forum that is equally said and I feel we need to address it. Words can come from a lot of places, from the head, heart, or hurt. I’ve seen hundreds of people saying that they are disappointed in Digital Extremes as a company, and this is my two cents. As a company it is the primary focus, at ALL TIMES, to prioritize profit and revenue before anything else. They have employees to pay and so many expenses. The electric bill to keep their servers online alone must be very high.

Sometimes, as a company, bait and switch tactics like what they did with Dante are crucial to keep themselves out of the red and keep their fingers away from the “Downsize Button”. They, as a company, have to get money in order to survive. Those of us who hit the 9 to 5 can surely understand that. What they did, as a company, was without a doubt a coldhearted, stone skinned, backstabbing betrayal of our trust to the utmost degree; but that’s exactly what a company has to be sometimes to make it in the world.

They’re like Drusus in the story of Dante Unbound; in that Warframe is a Free-To-Play Title just like the Leverian has no entry fee. Countless dozens of people out there talk about how much they pay for every bundle and Prime Access, but I know that I personally haven’t spent a single cent on this game. Just as Drusus told us how not enough people donated to the Leverian, maybe not enough people were purchasing these packs and Platinum for them to stay above break even. Just as Drusus had to make a deal with Parvos Granum, they had to resort to horrible tactics in order to turn a buck.

I am not disappointed in Digital Extremes as a company, because they’re doing what they have to. It just makes me feel like my heart is breaking that this is still going on, when we already know that they have the power to take LoS off of Dante. Maybe they feel the exact same way, but choose to believe that this still had to be done.

Thousands of people have lost their faith in you, but as someone who has well and truly faced the grind in this game even when all my friends told me to give up I know that all we have to do is try harder. Whenever I hit wall after wall and saw no way forward through the game, I just kept logging in and eventually surpassed those obstacles. I watched you give us the Open Worlds, I flew above the stars in my Railjack with spirits flying even higher, I have faced every Node and every Planet Chart I have seen before me, and whenever there was a Bug or a Flaw I brushed it aside because I knew there were people who cared for us that would fix them. I knew in my heart, that Digital Extremes would always come through, so I never faltered.

I’m not going to surrender my faith in all of you, no matter how hard it gets. It’s just never felt this fragile before, and I’m crying literal tears that it might fall apart. I won’t give it up, but I am so scared that I’m going to lose it.

This isn’t just about Dante, not anymore. This all feels like a sign of something worse on the horizon for Warframe as a whole. In a world where corporate monsters prioritize their greed over everything else just like the Corpus, where every game either needs a subscription or relies entirely on paid DLC, you have always been the game that makes me and so many others feel safe and loved by its developers.

You made a mistake and you’re trying to fix it without admitting you were wrong, and I understand that. I’m sure we’ve all stood by our bad choices at some point in our lives. We’ve even made mistakes in regards to this topic itself. So many of us met your choice with rage, thinking only of ourselves and what we wanted. We see your silence as weakness, and many strike at that weakness to bring you down. I want to understand, to comfort you in this error, and so many others do too. Don’t sacrifice your souls by giving in to greed, or cower because you’re afraid to admit you’re human. Just as Drusus called on us, you can too. For anything. We will answer.

We are your Tenno. We love you, DE. I have hope that we always will.

Sincerely,

NyteStryker_1357

[L3512]

30 minutes ago, NyteStryker_1357 said:

Sometimes, as a company, bait and switch tactics like what they did with Dante are crucial to keep themselves out of the red and keep their fingers away from the “Downsize Button”. They, as a company, have to get money in order to survive. Those of us who hit the 9 to 5 can surely understand that. What they did, as a company, was without a doubt a coldhearted, stone skinned, backstabbing betrayal of our trust to the utmost degree; but that’s exactly what a company has to be sometimes to make it in the world.

Pure conjecture, A nerf is not a symptom that DE is dying.

[Nero.DMC]

7 minutes ago, L3512 said:

Pure conjecture, A nerf is not a symptom that DE is dying.

he said "sometimes X" that pretty much implies its conjecture right there and then, you dont need to repeat its conjecture.

And sure, the nerf has nothing to do with lack of comunication, constant lies, hotfixs deployed in a trully shameful state and rushed desitions that make no sense, wich are the real problem to be completely honest, and what have made people refund stuff including tennocon tickets, you can sugarcoat it all you want but they made a mistake and are not adressing it in any way wich makes people even more mad about it, if they wanted to nerf Dante they did an awful job on every single step and that is a symptom of a company that looses their players trust and looses players themselves.

 

[LordOfKenpo]

9 hours ago, Fairuslolomg said:

I admit that Tragedy was broken af. You could erase Hydron entire population in one cast. But LoS change just let the ability practically useless. They should instead make it the way it was before and reduce the base range from 30m to 15-20. No point on destroying that ability I that way. This is truly a tragedy

I can nuke Hydron with Ember Prime, that's not a good standard as to whether something is broken. Dante took a lot more to kill enemies in SP unlike something like Saryn, Mesa or Mirage

 

6 hours ago, NyteStryker_1357 said:

Sometimes, as a company, bait and switch tactics like what they did with Dante are crucial to keep themselves out of the red and keep their fingers away from the “Downsize Button”. They, as a company, have to get money in order to survive. Those of us who hit the 9 to 5 can surely understand that. What they did, as a company, was without a doubt a coldhearted, stone skinned, backstabbing betrayal of our trust to the utmost degree; but that’s exactly what a company has to be sometimes to make it in the world.

Bait and switch tactics like that are generally considered illegal and game companies have lost lawsuits to players for similar things in the past

[L3512]

5 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:

And sure, the nerf has nothing to do with lack of comunication, constant lies, hotfixs deployed in a trully shameful state and rushed desitions that make no sense, wich are the real problem to be completely honest, and what have made people refund stuff including tennocon tickets, you can sugarcoat it all you want but they made a mistake and are not adressing it in any way wich makes people even more mad about it, if they wanted to nerf Dante they did an awful job on every single step and that is a symptom of a company that looses their players trust and looses players themselves.

People have been threatening to quit WF forever, no one cares.

As context, the AOE nerf garnered 13k negative reviews on Steam, the Dante nerf has reached . . . . 150ish.

 

5 hours ago, LordOfKenpo said:

Bait and switch tactics like that are generally considered illegal and game companies have lost lawsuits to players for similar things in the past

Source for a similar case that ended with a lost lawsuit? 

[FaraTenno]

1 hour ago, NyteStryker_1357 said:

Sometimes, as a company, bait and switch tactics like what they did with Dante are crucial to keep themselves out of the red and keep their fingers away from the “Downsize Button”. They, as a company, have to get money in order to survive. Those of us who hit the 9 to 5 can surely understand that. What they did, as a company, was without a doubt a coldhearted, stone skinned, backstabbing betrayal of our trust to the utmost degree; but that’s exactly what a company has to be sometimes to make it in the world.

This line of thinking does not work when it comes to live service video games.
The absolute last thing you would want to do is bait and switch your players like this, because you are then going to have players who do not trust what you release. This then leads to players choosing not to purchase content, or engage with it at all until they know it is balanced. 

Friendly reminder that video games, and their content updates, are supposed to be finished when they're released. Not mostly completed, and finished or fixed later on.

All this has done is spark doubt in the players who did use platinum or the premium pack to gain access to Dante; it's a scab that we will be able to look back at every time DE releases a new Warframe, no matter how ridiculously powerful or appealing the frame is. You look at that scab, and you think:
"Do I really want to risk being disappointed again?"
There's those of us who don't want to risk it. That number only grows the more this happens.

All of this to say that DE is fully aware that this is how it would go down. They are not morons.
This was not an intentional move on their part. They did not plan to release Dante in a broken state, and then nerf him specifically for profit, that does not make sense. There would be no difference had they left him the way he was, if anything they would have gotten more profit from leaving him that way.

This happened because DE isn't fully fueled by greed, and someone thought he needed to be tuned down for the long-term health of the game.
This was someone's effort to genuinely balance the game, and it may have sounded like a good idea on paper, but it turns out to be absolutely horrendous in execution.
That's all this whole situation is.

[LordOfKenpo]

42 minutes ago, FaraTenno said:

This happened because DE isn't fully fueled by greed, and someone thought he needed to be tuned down for the long-term health of the game.
This was someone's effort to genuinely balance the game, and it may have sounded like a good idea on paper, but it turns out to be absolutely horrendous in execution.
That's all this whole situation is.

This should have been caught in testing before it was released and they shouldn't be changing it a week after release. Tragedy would not have been bad for the long term health of the game. It requires line of sight to set up for so unless you're playing at low levels Tragedy wasn't a nuke. At low levels more than half the frames in the game can nuke a room. At high levels, Dante wasn't nearly as good as Saryn, Mesa, or Mirage at nuking. Really what happened was that they saw usage stats and panicked, but those stats were skewed due to him being new and easy to get

Edited April 9 by LordOfKenpo

[DeadlyDullahan]

5 hours ago, L3512 said:

People have been threatening to quit WF forever, no one cares.

As context, the AOE nerf garnered 13k negative reviews on Steam, the Dante nerf has reached . . . . 150ish.

and they do quit. some indefinitely and others for years.
It always ends with a promise from DE to do better in the future, and for a short while they do, up until they don't.
That may be a harsh criticism but there exist other gaming companies, some just as old, that are doing it right; and it's not unreasonable to expect the same standards.
I've stopped watching Devstreams and browsing the forums because DE, to me, comes across as performative more often than it should these days.

The AOE nerfs alone lost them about ~25% of their daily active players. Those numbers didn't recover until the next major content update almost a year later.
I'm not surprised that the Dante issue hasn't garnered the same level of criticism the AOE nerf did because a lot of those players either left or have given up.
There is arguably nothing worse than seeing a long-standing community fall silent to apathy because the average player doesn't feel their voice matters anymore.

 

4 hours ago, FaraTenno said:

This happened because DE isn't fully fueled by greed, and someone thought he needed to be tuned down for the long-term health of the game.
This was someone's effort to genuinely balance the game, and it may have sounded like a good idea on paper, but it turns out to be absolutely horrendous in execution.
That's all this whole situation is.

Unfortunately that's a case of "The road to H*** is Paved with Good Intentions"

I agree it genuinely may have likely been an internal decision and opinion that Dante needed to be tuned down for the health of the game, that by itself isn't an issue. Devs are typically always doing their best to figure out what works and doesn't work in their games.
The way this whole situation has played out with the community being ignored, rushed fixes, strong arming the changes at the expense of the players experience, etc. doesn't reflect the actions of Developers who are thinking about the games long-term health.

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

4 hours ago, DeadlyDullahan said:

and they do quit. some indefinitely and others for years.
It always ends with a promise from DE to do better in the future, and for a short while they do, up until they don't.

Then we have them stick to there word no more promises no more empty words from developers that have sat there and sead the same things over and over 

Actions speak louder than words have them actually do somthing rather than say there going to do somthing because the comunity is tired of empty promises and saying well do better next time well its next time and you shour didn't do better this time then last time 

 

4 hours ago, DeadlyDullahan said:

Devs are typically always doing their best to figure out what works and doesn't work in their games.
The way this whole situation has played out with the community being ignored, rushed fixes, strong arming the changes at the expense of the players experience, etc. doesn't reflect the actions of Developers who are thinking about the games long-term health.

This time they didn't other wise they would have waited a minimum of 3 weeks to collect data and decide weather he needed a fix or not but they didn't a few days in and poof a nerf there there and there 

Right now I dont think there thinking or even care about the comunity at this point literally 26 pages of people wanting the same thing and what do they answer well nothing about Dante but instead ignore everyone on this thread and talk about mesa 

They aren't thinking about the games long term health there just thinking of how much they can squeeze out of you right now it seams 

[Nimogrea]

5 hours ago, Fairuslolomg said:

I admit that Tragedy was broken af. You could erase Hydron entire population in one cast. But LoS change just let the ability practically useless. They should instead make it the way it was before and reduce the base range from 30m to 15-20. No point on destroying that ability I that way. This is truly a tragedy

Is volt OP then? He can erase hydron with the press of his 4 aswell. Just because something can clear low level enemies easily does not mean that it's op. Tragedy does poor damage outside of primed targets, to the point that if they're over level 50ish it's not really going to kill them.

Edited April 9 by Nimogrea

[Iamthepancake]

Could we also fix everything that scales with enemy hp such as the mod Acid Shells not scaling with the Steel Path enemy HP increase?

[FaraTenno]

1 hour ago, LordOfKenpo said:

This should have been caught in testing before it was released and they shouldn't be changing it a week after release. Tragedy would not have been bad for the long term health of the game. It requires line of sight to set up for so unless you're playing at low levels Tragedy wasn't a nuke. At low levels more than half the frames in the game can nuke a room. At high levels, Dante wasn't nearly as good as Saryn, Mesa, or Mirage at nuking. Really what happened was that they saw usage stats and panicked, but those stats were skewed due to him being new and easy to get

1 hour ago, DeadlyDullahan said:

Unfortunately that's a case of "The road to H*** is Paved with Good Intentions"

I agree it genuinely may have likely been an internal decision and opinion that Dante needed to be tuned down for the health of the game, that by itself isn't an issue. Devs are typically always doing their best to figure out what works and doesn't work in their games.
The way this whole situation has played out with the community being ignored, rushed fixes, strong arming the changes at the expense of the players experience, etc. doesn't reflect the actions of Developers who are thinking about the games long-term health.

To be completely clear, I absolutely agree with both of these statements, nor am I defending the current release.
I'm simply trying to dismiss the festering opinion of "DE did this on purpose to scam us."
We've got no real explanation why LoS was implemented but people seem to think their silence and the timing means it was planned from the beginning. I don't think this is the case, but I do agree this situation has been handled incredibly poorly, and I'm not sure why when things like the Eclipse nerf were caught before they were detrimental to the player experience.

Changes this major should have been saved for internal testing and discussion for the next major content update, which we already know is baking.
I'm of the belief that hotfixes should really only be used for urgent fixes, which I will grant Overguard definitely needed at the time, but Dante was needlessly punished without any explanation.
The matter is made even worse, as the hotfix that nerfed Dante also gave the "disrupted" frames ways to work around Overguard anyway. Dante's OG nerf was immediately redundant, and Tragedy wasn't tied to the real problem at all.

Truly I see no real problem with the Overguard nerf, it still feels generous enough when you build him correctly and at least functions. I'm just pointing out the weird thought process that could have easily been avoided, as these comments have pointed out.
 

[Circle_of_Psi]

10 hours ago, Kosynth said:

Companies tend to work on multiple things at once.
What do you want? HR to start firing people if they don't put 100% focus on Dante?

10 hours ago, CelticShaman said:

Of course not. But in a thread with 25 pages about Dante that no one seems to be addressing, picking out one side comment made about Mesa and addressing it seems pretty tone deaf...

10 hours ago, yeahnil said:

Keep in mind that this isn't the only one. There were many others that were either locked, merged or straight up deleted.

10 hours ago, LordOfKenpo said:

This is also a thread specifically about changes to Dante not Mesa and yet they only respond to the off topic comment about Mesa

I fell asleep and woke up to like 2 fresh pages, so I think the answer to your question is yes, while not exactly the solely Dante part, as Shaman said here. Since keep in mind what Yeahnil said here, they have been locking/deleting topics due to they are "not suitable"

Also switching the convo about Mesa over Dante seems to be a daft move since it's bluntly ignoring the main subject 

8 hours ago, Renkuya said:

This is the thing I found pretty disgusting. Blatantly ignoring the "unnerf dante" crowd seems like an oddly hostile approach from DE. I've held of on playing since the nerf, I probably just won't play until they fix him. I'm really not liking this way of handling things.

8 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:

its incredible they managed to sidestep making any comment today, DE is really testing us...

Yeah, it does seem quite a bit of an oddly hostile approach but when players doing it, it's bad, since the last time players did take a "hostile approach" it didn't end well and this is something I'd not see happen.

Question tho, has Reddit or Twitter been filled yet with this sorta thing or is it just here?

8 hours ago, DeadlyDullahan said:

I'm sure they're cooking up a response and trying to find a way to word it that minimizes the backlash they're going to get(it won't) when they confirm that they're not going to listen to the community on this issue- which frankly isn't the first time and doubt it'll be the last time. I'm just personally fed up with it at this stage after years of promising they'd stop this kind of behavior. Anything less than an apology with sincere action isn't going to cut it anymore, the empty promises are old and overused.

You'd get used to this I'm afraid, as we all know this is exactly what's happening.

9 hours ago, LordOfKenpo said:

Apparently someone has reported that using Dante's Tragedy now actually drops the games FPS significantly, another reason to revert the change. They were saying they regularly get 100+ FPS but when using Tragedy a lot it drops to about 30FPS. If that's true its another reason to remove LoS

6 hours ago, NuxWalpurgis said:

So a reply about one single off-topic comment about Mesa and FPS, yet not a single response about Dante? Who is the topic of the entire thread? You're shoving your own reputation down the gutter, because this outrage you've been seeing isn't just about Dante at this point.

Reverse the patch and stop - with us. The broken, janky, unwarranted LoS addition is ruining framerate and defeats the entire purpose of Tragedy, which is a detonation for Dante's LoS setup.

More importantly, if you want a reputation of listening to your community feedback, maybe at least give us the decency to respond to our concerns??

What the actual hell?

8 hours ago, Gandalf_White said:

Doesn't suprise me in the slightest. The entirety of LoS nerf along with hotfixes has been rushed out ASAP to shove it down our throats and hope we forget about it over the weekend. 

Now if there was no Dante nerfs all this would never have happened and everyone would have been happy

As White said, it doesn't surprise me in the slightest either that LoS is causing issues and they want to keep it in, so I guess RIP the game then if that's true.

Well, the weekend happened and everyone is still here, so this isn't going to go away any time soon the fact that so many have reported it does cause FPS, problems, I have to wonder why they still have not yet responded to this issue, since it's a game-breaking error.

Tho has anyone else reported this issue?

2 hours ago, FaraTenno said:

This line of thinking does not work when it comes to live service video games.
The absolute last thing you would want to do is bait and switch your players like this, because you are then going to have players who do not trust what you release. This then leads to players choosing not to purchase content, or engage with it at all until they know it is balanced. 

Friendly reminder that video games, and their content updates, are supposed to be finished when they're released. Not mostly completed, and finished or fixed later on.

All this has done is spark doubt in the players who did use platinum or the premium pack to gain access to Dante; it's a scab that we will be able to look back at every time DE releases a new Warframe, no matter how ridiculously powerful or appealing the frame is. You look at that scab, and you think:
"Do I really want to risk being disappointed again?"
There's those of us who don't want to risk it. That number only grows the more this happens.

All of this to say that DE is fully aware that this is how it would go down. They are not morons.
This was not an intentional move on their part. They did not plan to release Dante in a broken state, and then nerf him specifically for profit, that does not make sense. There would be no difference had they left him the way he was, if anything they would have gotten more profit from leaving him that way.

This happened because DE isn't fully fueled by greed, and someone thought he needed to be tuned down for the long-term health of the game.
This was someone's effort to genuinely balance the game, and it may have sounded like a good idea on paper, but it turns out to be absolutely horrendous in execution.
That's all this whole situation is.

4 hours ago, NyteStryker_1357 said:

Sincerely,

NyteStryker_1357

Agreed with both people here

(Tho, why is your text so small Nyte?)

[Renkuya]

29 minutes ago, FaraTenno said:

To be completely clear, I absolutely agree with both of these statements, nor am I defending the current release.
I'm simply trying to dismiss the festering opinion of "DE did this on purpose to scam us."
We've got no real explanation why LoS was implemented but people seem to think their silence and the timing means it was planned from the beginning. I don't think this is the case, but I do agree this situation has been handled incredibly poorly, and I'm not sure why when things like the Eclipse nerf were caught before they were detrimental to the player experience.

Changes this major should have been saved for internal testing and discussion for the next major content update, which we already know is baking.
I'm of the belief that hotfixes should really only be used for urgent fixes, which I will grant Overguard definitely needed at the time, but Dante was needlessly punished without any explanation.
The matter is made even worse, as the hotfix that nerfed Dante also gave the "disrupted" frames ways to work around Overguard anyway. Dante's OG nerf was immediately redundant, and Tragedy wasn't tied to the real problem at all.

Truly I see no real problem with the Overguard nerf, it still feels generous enough when you build him correctly and at least functions. I'm just pointing out the weird thought process that could have easily been avoided, as these comments have pointed out.
 

They explained the nerf just fine, he was "dominant". However, they also explained they weren't using any real statistics because new releases kind of break those stats for a while. So this was a purely "Dante seems too popular, let's find something to nerf". Heck, an influx of Nezha players might also be something they saw. The Augment must've gotten a bunch of people who already had Nezha to try him again. This spike in interest made them panic nerf the augment mod.

My problem with this approach is the fact that they nerf due to popularity at all. Who cares if people start using Nezha slightly more. The "endgame" areas of the game are dominated by like 4 frames. Who would care if Nezha showed up .5% more often then his current usage stats? Basing your nerf cycles on "what's popular today" just sounds like a strategy to make people hate your game. I'm obviously fine with nerfs that hit obviously OP things. I never agreed with the Trinity change way back in the day but I never had her to the "make everyone on your team immune to damage" point. That being said, them describing the problem of "it entirely trivializes difficulty" made sense. Here we have an example of DE hearing "nerf dante" and a high release usage, and they responded with a totally out of touch nerf. As has been said, it's entirely wild to see that in response to "Dante screws over Inaros/Nidus/Chroma" they nerfed his 4 with LOS, killed the pageflight thing, nerfed the boost of OG but then upped the regen and somehow in 5 days determined that these were the needed steps to be taken. This sort of rapid nerfs are a strong message to anyone partaking in new content: don't. I won't buy the next warframe if they're going to live and die on this hill of "popularity is bad". Your game isn't going to be popular if you're always hammering people for having fun and destroying anything because "it's popular".

TL;DR: I disagree with nerfing frames based on popularity, as it risks making players dislike the game. Nerfs should focus on overpowered elements, not popularity. The recent Dante nerf, in response to his high usage stats, seemed rushed and out of touch. Rapid nerfs discourage players from engaging with new content, and a consistent approach of nerfing popular elements may harm the game's popularity.

[hadrien2111]

NEZHA'S AUGMENT NERF IS STILL VERY MUCH OUTRAGEOUS, STOP PRETENDING LIKE YOU CAN'T SEE ALL THE COMMENTS ABOUT IT