[Dante Unbound] Our plans for next week (35.5.6)

[captn_Pat]

Mesa: press 4 once, everything you can look at is dead. Saryn: press 1 and shoot at it(with lash buff on) everything in 2/3 of the map is dead, takes a bit time, press 4 to accelerate. Dante: press 3 here, press 3 there, oh 5 mobs at once here, press 4 wow 3 mobs dead, 2 where blocked by a leaf of a tree. His 4 just feels silly now, why not just shoot, costs no energy, is faster......this change made him to a boring weapon platform number 37, keep all buffs up and shoot, thats not the mage phantasy he provided at launch, thats just a discount Rhino.

[EnviroUnit]

9 minutes ago, captn_Pat said:

Mesa: press 4 once, everything you can look at is dead. Saryn: press 1 and shoot at it(with lash buff on) everything in 2/3 of the map is dead, takes a bit time, press 4 to accelerate. Dante: press 3 here, press 3 there, oh 5 mobs at once here, press 4 wow 3 mobs dead, 2 where blocked by a leaf of a tree. His 4 just feels silly now, why not just shoot, costs no energy, is faster......this change made him to a boring weapon platform number 37, keep all buffs up and shoot, thats not the mage phantasy he provided at launch, thats just a discount Rhino.

Didn't ya hear? Dante isn't a mage, he is Medusa in male warframe disguise. He needs to make eye contact with an enemy in order to turn them into stone... errr, kill them I mean.

[SneakyErvin]

21 hours ago, MetalMechabolic said:

Pushing for spite nerfs?  Now we are getting spicy~!

Nerf? Huh?

20 hours ago, Shinoyami65 said:

I mean, they allowed Thermal Sunder to exist and be a subsumable you can slap on a Titania to nuke low-level star chart without LoS while moving at light speed. Tragedy honestly isn't that crazy compared to all the other toys you can bring into star chart these days.

Just because something exsists doesnt mean it needs to continue onward. You dont find a 6500 baseline damage ability that can cover over 50+ meters on level with or beyond what we have otherwise for low levels? He could practically stand in a location blind spam 3 and then follow it up with 4 to cover a whole map. No one really cares that tits can swoosh around at lightning speeds and sunder, it is only beneficial on missions like exterminate. On survival, defense, interception etc. Tragedy was miles ahead of sunder. With the same range modding sunder reaches 21 meters while tragedy reaches 52 meters. Why pick the option that requires you to move when you can instead just stand there and reach everything that spawns and deal several times more damage per cast/energy?

 

[Hodric]

Never posted before. Just a solo player joining the chorus to say pre-nerf Dante's dark verse/tragedy mechanics were (finally) something fresh and fun to play with and now it's just one among many.

Edited April 9 by Hodric

[EnviroUnit]

7 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Nerf? Huh?

Just because something exsists doesnt mean it needs to continue onward. You dont find a 6500 baseline damage ability that can cover over 50+ meters on level with or beyond what we have otherwise for low levels? He could practically stand in a location blind spam 3 and then follow it up with 4 to cover a whole map. No one really cares that tits can swoosh around at lightning speeds and sunder, it is only beneficial on missions like exterminate. On survival, defense, interception etc. Tragedy was miles ahead of sunder. With the same range modding sunder reaches 21 meters while tragedy reaches 52 meters. Why pick the option that requires you to move when you can instead just stand there and reach everything that spawns and deal several times more damage per cast/energy?

 

50+ meters you say? Unless, of course, my view of the enemy is obstructed by cover or any other object, right? Then I won't be hitting a damn thing, because LoS mechanic. If I really were to stand still like you said and spam 3-3-4 with any sort of obstruction in the way during any of the mission types you've mentioned, with how things are right now, you'd be cleaning 90% of the enemy population after me 100% of the time.

[Nero.DMC]

14 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Nerf? Huh?

Just because something exsists doesnt mean it needs to continue onward. You dont find a 6500 baseline damage ability that can cover over 50+ meters on level with or beyond what we have otherwise for low levels? He could practically stand in a location blind spam 3 and then follow it up with 4 to cover a whole map. No one really cares that tits can swoosh around at lightning speeds and sunder, it is only beneficial on missions like exterminate. On survival, defense, interception etc. Tragedy was miles ahead of sunder. With the same range modding sunder reaches 21 meters while tragedy reaches 52 meters. Why pick the option that requires you to move when you can instead just stand there and reach everything that spawns and deal several times more damage per cast/energy?

 

For base star chart you have multiple ways of getting huge area clears, star chart is awful for balancing a frame, low to mid 120-300 SP should be the minimum they balance around, they cant balance around both and since most players spend 99.999% of the time in sp it makes 0 sense to balance for star chart

If they want to balance for it reduce all ability ranges on star chart by 50% and then give it back on SP, enemies are way too weak in star chart and any ability modded for range will map wipe.

[TeaHawk]

The problem here is that DE sold Dante as pure AOE nuke frame to many people. They've been waiting since the release so that first "Dante is OP" videos come out and some people rush to buy it.

And only then they go "oops this ability was intended to be LOS".

This is bull***. Dante was shown at least 2 months before the release. It was supposed to be tested. Such an obvious change could be easily foreseen. It's not tweaking some numbers. It's completely changing how the ability works.

 

DE did this intentionally to sell more plat. What a shame!

 

Only one solution is accepted : remove that los crap

Edited April 9 by TeaHawk

[Stelthmastr]

8 hours ago, Nimogrea said:

Tragedy does poor damage outside of primed targets, to the point that if they're over level 50ish it's not really going to kill them.

This is not true at all. Dante nukes Steel Path enemies with no problems. Eximus units might need priming (a few shots from the Epitaph or even the Kuva Ogris works), but Dante can go to level cap and still perform because of his slash procs without issues. If you are experiencing issues with the damage from his 4, I'd recommend referencing one of the build guides on the official Discord or Overframe.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, Nero.DMC said:

For base star chart you have multiple ways of getting huge area clears, star chart is awful for balancing a frame, low to mid 120-300 SP should be the minimum they balance around, they cant balance around both and since most players spend 99.999% of the time in sp it makes 0 sense to balance for star chart

If they want to balance for it reduce all ability ranges on star chart by 50% and then give it back on SP, enemies are way too weak in star chart and any ability modded for range will map wipe.

That just mean the frame does need that upfront damage, since in higher content that damage doesnt matter anyways. So removing the part they see as disrupted if of no issue, since the content where it does anything is so trivial anyway that it doesnt matter if the damage is there or not.

Reducing range is the worst method, since it also impact the kit when played fully, since it would also reduce the range on actually primed targets. I mean, if you reduce it by 50%, you end up with it reaching 5 meters shorter than Dark Verse as baseline. If you add the penatly as an additive on modded range, it practically does nothing, since it still reaches over 40m at that point with the same modding, which is most of if not the whole map where low level champs live. I mean, DE found AoE weapons to be disruptive because they were used against everything, yet they only hit an area of 12-ish meters. So it isnt odd that DE sees Tragedy as disruptive while dealing the damage it does and covers such a large area aswell with rather small range investments. 52 meter without giving up any strength, and at a 50% reduction it would still be 40m without giving up any strength.

1 hour ago, EnviroUnit said:

50+ meters you say? Unless, of course, my view of the enemy is obstructed by cover or any other object, right? Then I won't be hitting a damn thing, because LoS mechanic. If I really were to stand still like you said and spam 3-3-4 with any sort of obstruction in the way during any of the mission types you've mentioned, with how things are right now, you'd be cleaning 90% of the enemy population after me 100% of the time.

I'm talking about how it worked pre-nerf and the reason for why it was nerfed. Hence the key words like "could" and "was" were used. I know you guys are fuming, but atleast read what is written.

Edited April 9 by SneakyErvin

[Nero.DMC]

12 minutes ago, Stelthmastr said:

This is not true at all. Dante nukes Steel Path enemies with no problems. Eximus units might need priming (a few shots from the Epitaph or even the Kuva Ogris works), but Dante can go to level cap and still perform because of his slash procs without issues. If you are experiencing issues with the damage from his 4, I'd recommend referencing one of the build guides on the official Discord or Overframe.

yah trash do not need priming but that is the whole point you are killing trash mobs with the ability not real threats, not that in wf any enemy is much of a threat anyway.

12 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

That just mean the frame does need that upfront damage, since in higher content that damage doesnt matter anyways. So removing the part they see as disrupted if of no issue, since the content where it does anything is so trivial anyway that it doesnt matter if the damage is there or not.

Reducing range is the worst method, since it also impact the kit when played fully, since it would also reduce the range on actually primed targets. I mean, if you reduce it by 50%, you end up with it reaching 5 meters shorter than Dark Verse as baseline. If you add the penatly as an additive on modded range, it practically does nothing, since it still reaches over 40m at that point with the same modding, which is most of if not the whole map where low level champs live. I mean, DE found AoE weapons to be disruptive because they were used against everything, yet they only hit an area of 12-ish meters. So it isnt odd that DE sees Tragedy as disruptive while dealing the damage it does and covers such a large area aswell with rather small range investments. 52 meter without giving up any strength, and at a 50% reduction it would still be 40m without giving up any strength.

I'm talking about how it worked pre-nerf and the reason for why it was nerfed. Hence the key words like "could" and "was" were used. I know you guys are fuming, but atleast read what is written.

That's the thing, dante damage is not over the top, he was pulling decent numbers thanks to that extra damage, now he does not, his tragedy require 3 casts and after 3 casts you get to kill the few enemies that see you?, that is a huge investment for a really low payoff, a lot of damage frames can wreak havoc with 3 abilitites, dante could before the nerf now its just mediocre overall, he is still somewhat fun to play but much much more annoying to play.

[sh0shin]

7 hours ago, Renkuya said:

They explained the nerf just fine, he was "dominant". However, they also explained they weren't using any real statistics because new releases kind of break those stats for a while. So this was a purely "Dante seems too popular, let's find something to nerf". Heck, an influx of Nezha players might also be something they saw. The Augment must've gotten a bunch of people who already had Nezha to try him again. This spike in interest made them panic nerf the augment mod.

My problem with this approach is the fact that they nerf due to popularity at all. Who cares if people start using Nezha slightly more. The "endgame" areas of the game are dominated by like 4 frames. Who would care if Nezha showed up .5% more often then his current usage stats? Basing your nerf cycles on "what's popular today" just sounds like a strategy to make people hate your game. I'm obviously fine with nerfs that hit obviously OP things. I never agreed with the Trinity change way back in the day but I never had her to the "make everyone on your team immune to damage" point. That being said, them describing the problem of "it entirely trivializes difficulty" made sense. Here we have an example of DE hearing "nerf dante" and a high release usage, and they responded with a totally out of touch nerf. As has been said, it's entirely wild to see that in response to "Dante screws over Inaros/Nidus/Chroma" they nerfed his 4 with LOS, killed the pageflight thing, nerfed the boost of OG but then upped the regen and somehow in 5 days determined that these were the needed steps to be taken. This sort of rapid nerfs are a strong message to anyone partaking in new content: don't. I won't buy the next warframe if they're going to live and die on this hill of "popularity is bad". Your game isn't going to be popular if you're always hammering people for having fun and destroying anything because "it's popular".

TL;DR: I disagree with nerfing frames based on popularity, as it risks making players dislike the game. Nerfs should focus on overpowered elements, not popularity. The recent Dante nerf, in response to his high usage stats, seemed rushed and out of touch. Rapid nerfs discourage players from engaging with new content, and a consistent approach of nerfing popular elements may harm the game's popularity.

Did they outright call him "dominant"? I swear they were leaning toward "OP/automates play" due to Overguard and Tragedy.

Regardless, I'll say it again: Revenant has broken all 3 of these at various times and in various ways.

• OP/automates: Mesmer Skin/Shield = godmode, as noted by DE. Full immunity to CC and damage + invulnerability in between stacks. Viral stacks + Enthrall = 1-shot any enemy.
• Dominant: Revenant Prime by himself is most used frame of 2023*
• Disruptive: Mesmer Shield with Vex/HA/Rage is the most noticeable, though Thrall Pact buff requires Thralls to not die and this can cause issues with enemy aggro, therefore KPM and enemy spawns, e.g., spawning the next wave, which would require players to work together to NOT kill enemies. A niche situation, but can be true nonetheless.

*NOTE: a combined ~5.5% usage with normal + Prime -- technically, Volt is the most used at 7.26% with both forms. Wukong/Prime is at about 6.8%, Excalibur + Umbra (+ Prime (0.03%)) makes up for ~6.6%. 

Are any of these reasons to nerf Revenant? No, probably not, unless there is a tweak to Mesmer that makes the game more interactive and fixes issues with on-hit abilities/buffs. Revenant is also... boring, and his main use is to bypass the game's difficulty modifiers, to trivialize content like any kind of endurance run (though I like to spam Reave to go zoom zoom as a Gauss main myself :P). He's the easiest frame to use for level cap besides invis frames.

Let's look at another popular frame: Wisp/Prime (~5.1% usage in 2023). She is both DPS and support, akin to Dante.

• OP/automates: Motes give you all the buffs you could ever want, trivializing the star chart and base SP, as well as pretty much every mission type. Shock + HP + move speed = invulnerable team. Fire rate/attack speed = DPS buff to the whole team. Add Breach Surge DPS to Motes buffs, and Wisp is a demon of a weapons platform. Wisp herself is invisible in the air and invulnerable after phase-shifting to her illusion, both of which can be spammed ad nauseum.
• Dominant: top 5 used frame.
• Disruptive: Shock motes can slow down defense (not mobile defense) missions, trigger Spy mission conditions. Haste mote theoretically could ruin Internal Bleeding/Hemorrhage builds. Again, a weaker pillar, but technically can and will occur.

Does any of this mean Wisp should be nerfed? Definitely not! The mote buffs aren't game-changing enough to be cast into irrelevance nor are the other abilities so insane as to be touched, especially after Breach Surge was finally correctly nerfed (not in my opinion, but per DE changes) to not work on Eximus, and the damage "fix" before that.

So, then, what is the nerfing philosophy at play? The internal logic of these decisions will baffle me until they explain it further. I'm mostly over the changes, and my opinions have been beaten to a pulp at this point. It's the principle of the thing that is now getting to me. I hope DE can clarify and I look forward to it if so.

Edited April 9 by sh0shin

[EnviroUnit]

50 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I'm talking about how it worked pre-nerf and the reason for why it was nerfed. Hence the key words like "could" and "was" were used. I know you guys are fuming, but atleast read what is written.

Oh I read what you wrote, alright. No need to spell it out for me. I know what you have referenced, and I stand by my previous statement still. You have been discussing his pre-nerf state, and I have mentioned his post-nerf, his present state. That's still the hot topic 'round here isn't it? Or has that changed while I was in the bathroom? Also "fuming" is not the word I'd use to describe my stance regarding this whole nerf fiasco. I'd like a full revert as much as most of the folks around here, but am I slamming my head against the desk or cursing your mother because of it? Certainly not. I don't feel THAT strongly about it all.

Edited April 9 by EnviroUnit

[tartcactus]

When you are a service provider,  and DE is exactly that, your customers, us Tenno, are only going to remain loyal to you up to the point that they perceive that you are providing a desired service and that you have their best interests at heart. Clearly, there are a lot of people who perceive that you have dealt them a disservice and from your ignoring their feedback they percieve that you no longer care about their satisfaction with your game. Unfortunately for you, DE, perception is reality. Bear in mind that the players providing feedback are only those few that actually believe in you enough to tell you their concerns. For every player posting a complaint, there are hundreds who will just leave the game without saying anything and the biggest proportion of them actually buy content. You need to admit you goofed. You need to abjectly apologize and you need to listen to your players, before you have a lot fewer players to listen to. I have other things that I can spend hundreds of dollars per year on. Not buying another collection, not buying another PA pack, not buying Tennocon tickets x3 depending on how you deal with this and depending upon how tone deaf you are. Refund my platinum I spent for Dante.

[MetalMechabolic]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Nerf? Huh?

"I'm fairly sure those same people would blow a couple of additional fuses if your idea was added aswell, which just makes me want to see your idea implemented all the more!"

Not sure how else to interpret this.  Not sure why people defend a company like it's their best friend either.  Guess i'm just dumb, lol.

[Circle_of_Psi]

6 hours ago, Erupter76 said:

This is such an over dramatic and unnecessary post. Especially since the entire point of this post goes down the drain when you realize that in the same DevShorts that announced they were nerfing Dante, Steve revealed that this first quarter saw record breaking profits. DE is not hurting for money.

And you posted this because?

5 hours ago, Llightmare said:

I usually do not comment on these topics but the CC changes on overguarded enemies were harsh. 

Shame you had to come and make a comment about such

Welcome either way

5 hours ago, RavlinWasTaken said:

I can't believe that the community has bullied DE into bringing back the status damage multiplier, making it even easier to go to higher levels??

I know this will all blow over in a few weeks like with AOE and Ammo changes in the past but this situation seems exceptionally silly for all this backlash.

Really, bullying, is what you're calling it?

I know some people are going a bit too far but this seems way out of line that you think it's resorted to this, but to be fair, I can only judge by your text (and your profile pic) of where you stand, so I can't see the full picture here, you mind clearing it up?

Edited April 9 by Circle_of_Psi

[Nero.DMC]

6 hours ago, Erupter76 said:

This is such an over dramatic and unnecessary post. Especially since the entire point of this post goes down the drain when you realize that in the same DevShorts that announced they were nerfing Dante, Steve revealed that this first quarter saw record breaking profits. DE is not hurting for money.

The price of goodwill and trust is much higher than what you loose in 1 quarter, the returned tennocon tickets, the lost of faith in the company, the lost of exitement over new updates is a big hit, like it or not, the fair complaints about Dante should not be ignored, yet they are ignoring them and i really hope (like a lot of people) that this hits them hard enough to realize why its a bad idea.

[tartcactus]

By continuing to ignore our complaints, you are only generating more ill will. It makes it appear that you no longer care. Which makes all the claims that you love your community look like bald faced lies. Be brave, respond, DE.

[SneakyErvin]

18 minutes ago, Nero.DMC said:

That's the thing, dante damage is not over the top, he was pulling decent numbers thanks to that extra damage, now he does not, his tragedy require 3 casts and after 3 casts you get to kill the few enemies that see you?, that is a huge investment for a really low payoff, a lot of damage frames can wreak havoc with 3 abilitites, dante could before the nerf now its just mediocre overall, he is still somewhat fun to play but much much more annoying to play.

"The few". No you wipe out a whole bunch of enemies. Have people even tried him after the nerfs? I'm beginning to doubt it. He has no problem pulling of 2 kills per second in SP by just using skills and the occasional melee/range attack to make floaty book attack. And that is respectable kps. And pulling decent numbers? So you mean a skill dealing 25 million of mostly cinematic damage isnt decent? Yeah those extra innate 6500 damage sure makes a difference out of those 25mil, considering how they'd end up adding something like 65 damage on a CHG in SP, or with my strength a bit over 200 damage. 

The only difference is you cant effectively spread his damage, because you cant hit behind you, which was counter productive anyways in higher content. And his disruptive approach in low content is no longer possible. Which is inline with former DE changes to the game when it comes to AoE.

25 minutes ago, EnviroUnit said:

Oh I read what you wrote, alright. No need to spell it out for me. I know what you have referenced, and I stand by my previous statement still. You have been discussing his pre-nerf state, and I have mentioned his post-nerf, his present state. That's still the hot topic 'round here isn't it? Or has that changed while I was in the bathroom? Also "fuming" is not the word I'd use to describe my state regarding this whole nerf fiasco. I'd like a full revert as much as most of the folks around here, but am I slamming my head against the desk or cursing your mother because of it? Certainly not. I don't feel THAT strongly about it all.

He's still as strong as before after the nerf outside of star chart. DE stated long ago that when they run into a disruptive playstyle it will get nerfed, Tragedy pre-nerf would fall under that style. And when DE nerfs things that deal damage in a 12m radius, it isnt a shocker they nerf something that deals damage in a 52 meter radius and wipes out low level content without any actual prep. Yes he took 3 steps to pull it off, but it was in the end still 3 fast casts totaling 100 cost, like most 4 skills do as baseline.

Also. You are free to curse my mother if you like, she wont care since she's just ashes under a turf of grass.

22 minutes ago, MetalMechabolic said:

"I'm fairly sure those same people would blow a couple of additional fuses if your idea was added aswell, which just makes me want to see your idea implemented all the more!"

Not sure how else to interpret this.  Not sure why people defend a company like it's their best friend either.  Guess i'm just dumb, lol.

I dont see his idea as a nerf. I see it as a sensible fix to a problem regarding disruptive gameplay incase they cant fix LoS fully. I mean, it really shouldnt effect anyone that actually plays him as intended by priming and detonating, and it will do nothing in high level content. It would only effect those that didnt actually prime and only used dark verse in order to be allowed to cast Final Verse in low levels. And those people I'm refering to would deserve a nerf out of spite since they are so obnoxious towards the devs. I have nothing against people giving criticism, but most of these people arent doing that, they are just volatile and disrespectful.

And if this was about defending the company no matter what, then I wouldnt agree with the idea posted would I? Nor would I criticize other parts that went live in Dante Unbound either, like RNG loadouts, those #*!%ing bunny ears and so on? But sure, write it of as whiteknighting or whatever you want if it makes you feel better, I dont really give a squat.

One of the funnier excuses here is from the people that claimed they ran around and "primed the whole map" in order to use tragedy to wipe it. Those guys must have some serious access to frame based status duration, since it takes a whole lot of #*!%ing time to too around with a 50 degree primer to prime 360 degrees of the map, especially when the primer they claim to use abides by LoS by design and has a far lower effective range aswell.

[MetalMechabolic]

2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

One of the funnier excuses here is from the people that claimed they ran around and "primed the whole map" in order to use tragedy to wipe it. Those guys must have some serious access to frame based status duration, since it takes a whole lot of #*!%ing time to too around with a 50 degree primer to prime 360 degrees of the map, especially when the primer they claim to use abides by LoS by design and has a far lower effective range aswell.

I wouldn't think it's THAT crazy and, more than likely, they are being a bit hyperbolic.  That said, I can destroy the normal starchart with Saryn without worrying about LoS because of the toxic damage ramping up the longer you are poisoning enemies.  At times the toxic damage was so potent the group of enemies that ran into the room died before I even get a shot off because Saryn's toxic spores don't care about LoS.  After that, seeing DE taking Dante out back with the first nerf felt real strange since a newbie like me can see how some frames like Saryn can make normal starchart maps ezpz.

[Circle_of_Psi]

15 minutes ago, tartcactus said:

By continuing to ignore our complaints, you are only generating more ill will. It makes it appear that you no longer care. Which makes all the claims that you love your community look like bald faced lies. Be brave, respond, DE.

26 minutes ago, Nero.DMC said:

The price of goodwill and trust is much higher than what you loose in 1 quarter, the returned tennocon tickets, the lost of faith in the company, the lost of exitement over new updates is a big hit, like it or not, the fair complaints about Dante should not be ignored, yet they are ignoring them and i really hope (like a lot of people) that this hits them hard enough to realize why its a bad idea.

I have to agree with this ^

Edited April 9 by Circle_of_Psi

[EnviroUnit]

8 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

He's still as strong as before after the nerf outside of star chart. DE stated long ago that when they run into a disruptive playstyle it will get nerfed, Tragedy pre-nerf would fall under that style. And when DE nerfs things that deal damage in a 12m radius, it isnt a shocker they nerf something that deals damage in a 52 meter radius and wipes out low level content without any actual prep. Yes he took 3 steps to pull it off, but it was in the end still 3 fast casts totaling 100 cost, like most 4 skills do as baseline.

Also. You are free to curse my mother if you like, she wont care since she's just ashes under a turf of grass.

Oh, but I won't, that's the point. I don't feel the need to engage in some aggressive campaign fused with vulgarity just because someone disagreed with me. Also, would you mind sharing your build that's unimpeded by current nerfs? And please don't tell me that it involves a meta weapon, Huras Kubrow with Mecha Set and Roar. Just, just, please don't.

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

50 minutes ago, Stelthmastr said:

This is not true at all. Dante nukes Steel Path enemies with no problems. Eximus units might need priming (a few shots from the Epitaph or even the Kuva Ogris works), but Dante can go to level cap and still perform because of his slash procs without issues. If you are experiencing issues with the damage from his 4, I'd recommend referencing one of the build guides on the official Discord or Overframe.

Nope he starts falling off bad after 500 and the level cap is 9999 even with 420% strength i can barely get him to 1000 without having major problems my weapons even have rivers and arcanes  im fully built and still have trouble 

[LordOfKenpo]

22 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

"The few". No you wipe out a whole bunch of enemies. Have people even tried him after the nerfs? I'm beginning to doubt it. He has no problem pulling of 2 kills per second in SP by just using skills and the occasional melee/range attack to make floaty book attack. And that is respectable kps. And pulling decent numbers? So you mean a skill dealing 25 million of mostly cinematic damage isnt decent? Yeah those extra innate 6500 damage sure makes a difference out of those 25mil, considering how they'd end up adding something like 65 damage on a CHG in SP, or with my strength a bit over 200 damage. 

The only difference is you cant effectively spread his damage, because you cant hit behind you, which was counter productive anyways in higher content. And his disruptive approach in low content is no longer possible. Which is inline with former DE changes to the game when it comes to AoE.

I have played him a lot since the nerf and what I noticed is I have had to change my playstyle significantly to get less results. Before I would use dark verse on multiple groups of enemies and then position myself between them to hit them all with tragedy which usually killed or at least did significant damage to all/most of them. This was like culmination onf multiple abilities and strategic placement to get this effect. Now I have to basically use the full dark verse/tragedy on each group which significantly reduces the level of thought/strategy used to play him as well as costing far more energy for the same effect.

[MetalMechabolic]

36 minutes ago, Nero.DMC said:

The price of goodwill and trust is much higher than what you loose in 1 quarter, the returned tennocon tickets, the lost of faith in the company, the lost of exitement over new updates is a big hit, like it or not, the fair complaints about Dante should not be ignored, yet they are ignoring them and i really hope (like a lot of people) that this hits them hard enough to realize why its a bad idea.

Personally, I wasn't even that hyped about Dante.  I just figured the plat in the pack was a good incentive on top of getting the newly released frame.  After seeing them going full League of Legends on newly released characters/frames (Oops, too powerful better tweak it.  Thanks for the cash early adopters!) with the Hype > Release > Wait a week > Nerf cycle I know not to bother checking out news since things change this quickly.  At least it's fun to move around in this game!

[__sHVeD___]

Damage through walls is the only thing that saves the game in old locations. Have you forgotten what the map of locations in the game looks like? These are pipes and small halls with a bunch of objects.. In the locations like Kuva and infected ships Los destroys the game.

Dante: The energy is enough for 3-4 uses of “Tragedy”(or another ultimate) , and it can hit just 5-10 mobs maximum. This does not in any way contribute to active gameplay, but on the contrary forces you to sit in one convenient position. People who complain about warframes that destroy entire locations, apparently do not play the Steel Path at all. Dante can't kill high Level mobs by “Tragedy”. He was strong before the nerf, but he wasn't stronger than other warframes, but now he is just useless trash..