Petition To Warframe's Creative Director - Rebecca Ford - To Host A Longer Devshort or Mini-Devstream This Week

[JargenBakt]

Given the current state of things and how the recent patches has pretty much sent the community into a deep spiral, I'm opening this petition in the hopes that we can get some more communication and transparency regarding recent events. As much as I like the devshorts, 15 minutes is simply going to be too short to fully explain everything.

[L3512]

What needs explaining? Unless you are a new player or have a short memory, nothing is really out of the ordinary here.

DE apply buffs and nerfs when they see fit to what they see fit.

[JargenBakt]

Quite a lot actually. If you've been paying attention recently, there's been a serious lack of proper communication. Dante got super nerfed into the ground after they told the community that it was going to be minor changes. Deep Archimedea requires the "optional" modifiers to be enabled to get all the rewards despite being told that wasn't going to be the case and that players could just run it multiple times as needed and that the optional modifiers would just speed up the process.

 

Warframe has always prided itself on its community and communication and this is the worst it has been in a while. I've seen a lot of drama and miscommunication over the years while playing, but everything about what has happened recently has shown something is going on on the development side of things. I'd like to hear their side of things that's more than just a simple brief explanation.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Agreed. I really need to know DE Rebecca's thoughts and reaction to this weekends Wrestlemania results. Which was her favourite match, who is her favourite performer, how she would have booked the Bloodline story, whether or not Dante will get to finish his story, whether we will get a true Grappling/Wrestling Warframe? I can't wait for the next Devstream. Plus the fact that Sami Zayn and Kevin Owens are Canadian, and that DE is a Canadian company. Like I am not implying that all people in Canada know each other... I am outright claiming that as a factual truth. No implication needed. 

There are also several anime that I would like to get her takes on, but DE Megan may be required for that one. I am not sure De Steve is as up to date. 

(Not to make light of your suggestion OP, I understand where you are coming from, but Dev Short day is pretty soon, and I don't think the negativity or drama of the current situation, actually warrants anything longer. Forums, have a tendency to overreact and get extreme, but we are still a minority of a minority of the player base. Not to imply that our feedback isn't valid, and I for one, think the nerfs/changes were premature and should be reverted, but I don't have any intense hatred or distaste or any personal feelings involved. Basically in a few months, this will just be added to the "times the Forums caught fire, alongside Regal Aya, AOE nerfs, Melee nerfs, Heirlooms, and insert other larger than usual, but not special negativity waves"). 

That being said, I'd also be welcome if they decided to extend the Devshort to cover more, am always happy for more info, but I'll be fine if they just say that they are still taking in feedback and considering stuff too.)

[kerozen666]

3 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

Agreed. I really need to know DE Rebecca's thoughts and reaction to this weekends Wrestlemania results. Which was her favourite match, who is her favourite performer, how she would have booked the Bloodline story, whether or not Dante will get to finish his story, whether we will get a true Grappling/Wrestling Warframe? I can't wait for the next Devstream. Plus the fact that Sami Zayn and Kevin Owens are Canadian, and that DE is a Canadian company. Like I am not implying that all people in Canada know each other... I am outright claiming that as a factual truth. No implication needed. 

There are also several anime that I would like to get her takes on, but DE Megan may be required for that one. I am not sure De Steve is as up to date. 

(Not to make light of your suggestion OP, I understand where you are coming from, but Dev Short day is pretty soon, and I don't think the negativity or drama of the current situation, actually warrants anything longer. Forums, have a tendency to overreact and get extreme, but we are still a minority of a minority of the player base. Not to imply that our feedback isn't valid, and I for one, think the nerfs/changes were premature and should be reverted, but I don't have any intense hatred or distaste or any personal feelings involved. Basically in a few months, this will just be added to the "times the Forums caught fire, alongside Regal Aya, AOE nerfs, Melee nerfs, Heirlooms, and insert other larger than usual, but not special negativity waves"). 

That being said, I'd also be welcome if they decided to extend the Devshort to cover more, am always happy for more info, but I'll be fine if they just say that they are still taking in feedback and considering stuff too.)

yeah, the last thing the devs should be doing right now is feed the toddler tantrum that is going on.

[Waeleto]

100% we need a LOT of communication and insight into the whole situation to start building trust back after what happened last week ESPECIALLY that there was miscommunication on DE's part involved

[Nero.DMC]

7 hours ago, L3512 said:

What needs explaining? Unless you are a new player or have a short memory, nothing is really out of the ordinary here.

DE apply buffs and nerfs when they see fit to what they see fit.

1) Why did they ship stuff that was not ready? twice...

2) Why was so important to rush nerfs when they were not ready?

3) Why all the feedback was ignored, while simultaneously telling us it was not?

4) Why use LoS as a nerf mechanic, it does not solve anything, its just removed QoL. (if you are in an open space dante is as strong as he always was, if he is in a enclosed space he is severly nerfed and 99% of the time the player has 0 agency on what tile the enemies are)

5) Why some WF's are allowed to stay META for years and others just get nerfed instantly (while not even meta?)

[--END--Rikutatis]

LOL you guys need to get over yourselves and touch grass 

Are you all new? Is this the first time you experience a nerf? They're still iterating on it. Give it a few more hotfixes, things will be fine in the end. Has happened countless times in the past. That's how game development works for live services. The LoS still sucks atm, but they'll iron it out and the game will be better for it in the long run.

[Nero.DMC]

2 minutes ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

LOL you guys need to get over yourselves and touch grass 

Are you all new? Is this the first time you experience a nerf? They're still iterating on it. Give it a few more hotfixes, things will be fine in the end. Has happened countless times in the past. That's how game development works for live services. The LoS still sucks atm, but they'll iron it out and the game will be better for it in the long run.

have you not worked in any field at all? i am a dev, if i push unfinished buggy changes i would get fired lol... 
This S#&$ were people dont ask for the minimum standard from an industry is disgusting, we are their clients and they owe their investors/bosses and us as their clients to do better.

pushing unfinished changes is just amateur work, something no company of the size of DE should ever allow.

[Nekomian]

7 hours ago, JargenBakt said:

If you've been paying attention recently, there's been a serious lack of proper communication.

I'm a bit confused by this - we had a devshorts with Reb explaining changes were coming, a hotfix, followed by multiple PSAs (as well as patch note) explaining the reasoning behind it and subsequent changes that were coming, due to faulty implementation.

On 2024-04-04 at 2:02 PM, [DE]Megan said:

Final Verse’s “Tragedy” now only affects enemies within Line of Sight.

• This felt like the most reasonable change to Tragedy since it could be cast back to back without much forethought on positioning. So to make it a more active ability, enemies must now be within range in your Line of Sight to be impacted by it. 

It's fine to disagree with this line of thought and want changes to Dante's kit, but outside of a dev personally giving you a DM or response I don't know how much more they could communicate. Three PSAs within' 24 hours all detailing their exact next steps as a dev team seem more than sufficient to me at least. They'll likely have another dev short as they tend to every week as well, where they'll likely address some of the concerns people have. I'm sure it's by no means a perfect solution (since stream times are always inconvenient for at least someone around the world), but forums are also here to post feedback whenever if someone can't make it to a live discussion.

[Shodian87]

Nah, there's nothing to discuss except they're working on improving LoS issues.

[Tiltskillet]

4 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

Agreed. I really need to know DE Rebecca's thoughts and reaction to this weekends Wrestlemania results. Which was her favourite match, who is her favourite performer, how she would have booked the Bloodline story, whether or not Dante will get to finish his story, whether we will get a true Grappling/Wrestling Warframe?

➕💯

[JargenBakt]

8 minutes ago, Nekomian said:

I'm a bit confused by this - we had a devshorts with Reb explaining changes were coming, a hotfix, followed by multiple PSAs (as well as patch note) explaining the reasoning behind it and subsequent changes that were coming, due to faulty implementation.

What's there to be confused about? Dante released, they later then said the changes were going to be minor, the changes dropped and the entire community gets whiplashed because the changes were not minor. Same thing goes for Deep Archimedea and the optional modifiers being mandatory to receive any kind of reward when we were told the optional modifiers were entirely optional and were just going to be there to speed up the reward process. The communication regarding two pretty major additions to the game have been not all as it had seems. It's why I'm calling for this petition because of the communication issues.

[Nero.DMC]

41 minutes ago, Nekomian said:

I'm a bit confused by this - we had a devshorts with Reb explaining changes were coming, a hotfix, followed by multiple PSAs (as well as patch note) explaining the reasoning behind it and subsequent changes that were coming, due to faulty implementation.

It's fine to disagree with this line of thought and want changes to Dante's kit, but outside of a dev personally giving you a DM or response I don't know how much more they could communicate. Three PSAs within' 24 hours all detailing their exact next steps as a dev team seem more than sufficient to me at least. They'll likely have another dev short as they tend to every week as well, where they'll likely address some of the concerns people have. I'm sure it's by no means a perfect solution (since stream times are always inconvenient for at least someone around the world), but forums are also here to post feedback whenever if someone can't make it to a live discussion.

its exactly for this very reason that they should, WHY are they pushing faulty implementations, what was the rush to push that faulty implementation? why LoS should be considered a good nerf mechanic (its just awful as a nerf too anyway) why some WF's are allowed to stay on top of the meta forever and Dante was required to get instantly nerfed, they did not even have time to test the changes they made and deployed something that was beyond broken... all this needs to be explained.

[Nekomian]

13 minutes ago, JargenBakt said:

the changes dropped and the entire community gets whiplashed because the changes were not minor

All things considered, the changes were rather minor - overguard cap was unchanged, meaning it just takes more casts to reach. Tragedy's range and strength was unchanged, only requiring LoS (which admittedly was buggy on release, and still has edge cases they need to clean up). The strength of the abilities themselves were largely unchanged, and how you play Dante (casting frequently at enemies) largely went unchanged, outside of requiring enemies to be near you or visible.

15 minutes ago, JargenBakt said:

Same thing goes for Deep Archimedea and the optional modifiers being mandatory to receive any kind of reward when we were told the optional modifiers were entirely optional and were just going to be there to speed up the reward process

I genuinely cannot find this anywhere where they stated modifiers would "speed up the reward process"; even the dev stream where they first showed this off shows that it requires all modifiers for all rewards, or you can use less for "less rewards that week". Pablo states it many times, as does Megan when she mentions you can play with no modifiers and it affects the research value (and thus, weekly rewards given by proxy):

6 minutes ago, Nero.DMC said:

why LoS should be considered a good nerf mechanic (its just awful as a nerf too anyway) why some WF's are allowed to stay on top of the meta forever and Dante was required to get instantly nerfed, they did not even have time to test the changes they made and deployed something that was beyond broken... all this needs to be explained.

Sure, but I was indicating that there's no lack of communication (if you want to be pedantic, one could say "OK but it didn't address my personal concerns / the important concerns", which will always be true per individual since that varies so wildly). It's fine to request they discuss specific topics in a devstream or address it, but petitioning for an immediate response and saying that there's been no communication on their changes is a bit disingenuous. They made an explanation for LoS and Dante changes; if it wasn't satisfactory to people that's fine, but like one was communicated, and then reiterated 3 times in PSAs. I'd understand if it was some shadow nerf or like, undocumented change with no explanation whatsoever, but it wasn't that, which is why I'm confused by this sentiment. Again, it's fine to disagree with the changes too (plenty of people have), but I wouldn't discount what has been said and announced.

[Nero.DMC]

11 minutes ago, Nekomian said:

 

Sure, but I was indicating that there's no lack of communication (if you want to be pedantic, one could say "OK but it didn't address my personal concerns / the important concerns", which will always be true per individual since that varies so wildly). It's fine to request they discuss specific topics in a devstream or address it, but petitioning for an immediate response and saying that there's been no communication on their changes is a bit disingenuous. They made an explanation for LoS and Dante changes; if it wasn't satisfactory to people that's fine, but like one was communicated, and then reiterated 3 times in PSAs. I'd understand if it was some shadow nerf or like, undocumented change with no explanation whatsoever, but it wasn't that, which is why I'm confused by this sentiment. Again, it's fine to disagree with the changes too (plenty of people have), but I wouldn't discount what has been said and announced.

here is the thing about what has been said by them, communication is a two way street, if i ask you why you did A and you answer me with why you did Z you are not being effective at communicating anything, you are just talking nosense, the community has been very vocal about the reason why LoS does not work and why they hate the change, they simultaneusly told us they are reading feedback and ignored all the feedback provided and never aknowledge it.

So i sadly dont consider good communication when they are simply saying whatever they want to say and not answering the legit doubts the community has about their way of implementing this changes, you can argue about how in quantity their communications seems like a lot, but in quality is clearly lacking they are not adressing what people want to know, if they dont adress the community's problems they simply are not giving us quality communication, they are just announcing what they are going to do. 

Its like every time they told us they were hearing the feedback and then by their actions they confirmed that after the first hotfix they had no idea what our problems were with regards to overguard messing other frames that required taking damage, innefective communication at its worst.

[JargenBakt]

25 minutes ago, Nekomian said:

I genuinely cannot find this anywhere where they stated modifiers would "speed up the reward process"; even the dev stream where they first showed this off shows that it requires all modifiers for all rewards, or you can use less for "less rewards that week". Pablo states it many times, as does Megan when she mentions you can play with no modifiers and it affects the research value (and thus, weekly rewards given by proxy):

It was implied and I wasn't the only one who came to that conclusion too. There are a whole slew of other people here on the forums who thought the exact same thing and said the exact same thing I did. This is why Deep Archimedea is an absolute nightmare in its current form as so many of us thought it was all going to be optional with the only thing we had to do was run it multiple times with whatever modifiers we choose until we hit max reward tier. There's a progress bar, but no saved progression. The optional modifiers are optional yet they aren't optional and are required. You see where I'm coming from? There's a huge implication of how the system was suppose to work before release because of multiple factors at play here including the awful way of the information is portrayed on the UI. No one, and I mean no one, was thinking that everything was going to be required from the start and that we would pick our restrictions and play at our leisure throughout the week until we completed it and received all five rewards.

 

The whole idea of a consecutive game mode that is hugely restrictive is a truly awful idea anyway because players need to be able to take breaks after some difficult sessions.

[drakolich21]

2 hours ago, JargenBakt said:

It was implied and I wasn't the only one who came to that conclusion too. There are a whole slew of other people here on the forums who thought the exact same thing and said the exact same thing I did. This is why Deep Archimedea is an absolute nightmare in its current form as so many of us thought it was all going to be optional with the only thing we had to do was run it multiple times with whatever modifiers we choose until we hit max reward tier. There's a progress bar, but no saved progression. The optional modifiers are optional yet they aren't optional and are required. You see where I'm coming from? There's a huge implication of how the system was suppose to work before release because of multiple factors at play here including the awful way of the information is portrayed on the UI. No one, and I mean no one, was thinking that everything was going to be required from the start and that we would pick our restrictions and play at our leisure throughout the week until we completed it and received all five rewards.

 

The whole idea of a consecutive game mode that is hugely restrictive is a truly awful idea anyway because players need to be able to take breaks after some difficult sessions.

No it wasn't? I watched all streams where they discussed the game mode and it seemed pretty clear to me that things would be how they are. They only said you could run the mission multiple times, but they were pretty clear that you needed a specific amount of modifiers in a single session to get to the various reward levels. Increasing the mission difficulty increases your reward, and you can decide to skip some rewards to make the mission easier.

The only thing that was up to interpretation was wether you needed all modifiers enabled to get the "best" reward (guaranteed melee arcane or tau shard). And you don't, since the last reward is phosphor, meaning you can drop one modifier.

 

Edit: watched the devstream again and it's pretty clear. Not up to interpretation.

Edited April 8 by drakolich21

[ShogunGunshow]

No amount of explanation is going to convince anyone of anything at this point, peoples' minds are made up.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

The tone sounds really desperate.

Basically "I can't accept the changes that were made by this company, so I need them to make an extra effort to say the same thing again so I can really process how horrible they are to me."

[Psianide73]

There could be a 10 hour dev stream... Some of you still wouldn't be satisfied. 

 

[JargenBakt]

Well, I've said all that I wanted to say. At this point the only choice is to wait to see how the dev team will handle everything going forward. All I'm hoping now is that my thread got noticed and my petition request forwarded. I won't be disappointed if nothing comes of it, but hey... it would be nice.

 

Sometimes you just gotta rant, you know?

[L3512]

13 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:

1) Why did they ship stuff that was not ready? twice...

2) Why was so important to rush nerfs when they were not ready?

3) Why all the feedback was ignored, while simultaneously telling us it was not?

4) Why use LoS as a nerf mechanic, it does not solve anything, its just removed QoL. (if you are in an open space dante is as strong as he always was, if he is in a enclosed space he is severly nerfed and 99% of the time the player has 0 agency on what tile the enemies are)

5) Why some WF's are allowed to stay META for years and others just get nerfed instantly (while not even meta?)

1. This is the company that shipped RJ in an almost completely unplayable state and went on holiday. I'm not even going to hold that against DE as people get pissy about anything, especially (DE)layed content.

2. LOS was always bugged, did you cry about it on Khora? Ready or not LOS is getting fixed to hopefully resolve it's issues, for something that spanned a couple days, it's not the end of the world.

3. Not reversing a nerf is not ignoring feedback. They know your feedback and presumably disagree with it.

4. LOS was always bugged, ask DE, LOS should be in a better place for every frame after this, which would be a win.

5. The only true META in WF was Eclipse Volt for PT and captures.

 

[Shinoyami65]

14 hours ago, kerozen666 said:

yeah, the last thing the devs should be doing right now is feed the toddler tantrum that is going on.

Please, you were throwing just as much of a tantrum on these forums and Reddit about Overguard and "P2W" when Dante was released.  

There isn't much difference between your Dante posts and the current flood of negative feedback other than that DE responded to the initial feedback and has yet to respond to the current feedback (and didn't even properly address your points given that Dante still provides high Overguard at lower levels). Well, that and your high horse, I suppose. 

[ReddyDisco]

I'm just glad LoS is getting improved this week, will help ember and khora. This nerf to dante turned out to be a blessing in disguise for others