PC PC Dante Unbound: Hotfix 35.5.6

[ShogunGunshow]

2 hours ago, FaraTenno said:

Throw the exact same LoS requirement on Saryn's Spores and Miasma and we'll see if your opinion stays the same.

I mean.

Yes. I would like that. DE should be consistent. 

[AEisenhirn]

Please. Stop tormenting Dante. Remove LoS.

If Dante originally had LoS at launch, no one would have any objections, and he would be as boring a frame as many of the others, judging by the statistics - almost three quarters of all existing ones, including non-prime versions. Take Dante and his accessories away from me, I want the damn platinum back. Guys, has anyone brought Dante back yet? I no longer have the strength to wait for the developers to come to their senses. No hope. And no trust. I'll just collect it in parts, and then raise the frame to the maximum rank and give it to the helminth and forget about it. Same with 75% of other frames. I also think why there is Loki, Ash, Excalibur, Atlas, Hydroid (even after the “improvement”, lmao), Frost, Banshee, Grendel, Yareli, Nyx, Zephyr. And some others that I don’t remember anymore.

I repeat, if this had been the case INITIALLY, we would not have paid attention. But breaking the core mechanics is too much. Let them change the numbers, not the core mechanics. The maximum is numbers. Or improve outsiders. These "improvements" to Dante after the nerf are nothing more than a pathetic sop, a distraction from the main problem. None of this suits me. And as I see, the rest. For God's sake, they shouldn't have introduced improvements to status damage and other improvements. Just remove the damn LoS. Without all other improvements. And if it's so hard for them to think, I'll help them - just reduce range 4, make it the same as for other abilities. All other improvements, I repeat, are dust in the eyes.

The problem is already slowly flowing from the essence of the nerf into the essence of the lies of the developers. They said “a small nerf”, but in the end they buried it below the ground. And then the same developers extremely persistently and stubbornly ignore the most important problem. In addition to lying, they are hypocrites. Instead of correcting pressing problems that were relevant at the time, they put them aside only to remember them almost a decade later, or even more. And now no one needs these corrections anymore. I admit that they are fixing some problematic issues in this and previous patches, but I won’t thank them. Only when it is convenient for them, to try to put out a larger fire, to “make amends” for the consequences of extremely unpopular changes. Trust is a big thing. It is extremely difficult to create, but very easy to lose. But if they are satisfied with “fresh meat” in the form of new players who will blindly run to donate and are not aware of old problems, then the flag is in their hands, we already see that they are not interested in old players or those who are really good at the game, and is focused on playing to level 9999. Okay, pretty good. Let them act as they want. If they like it that way, let them nerf Volt, Sarina, Wisp, Octavia, Misa, Khora, Revenant, Gauss, Mirage, Wukong, Baruuk, and who the hell else is there! Let them be consistent, damn it! Drive all the good frames below ground!
 
And in conclusion - let them return my platinum for Dante and accessories for him, or let them remove LoS. Either they don't value their players.

[Nero.DMC]

51 minutes ago, DeZaruu said:

Thank you for going back and looking at LoS and Overguard in general, DE.

I personally think Dante is great as is (with the upcoming fixes included), and like you discussed on the Devshorts; if you touch range people will be upset, if you touch LoS people will be upset.

People get upset when content is too easy, yet upset when you try to keep things somewhat moderate (AoE changes, damage attenuation, etc).

I'm aware this comment will get a lot of hate, but you deserve to hear from people who's not just overly aggressive.

Its not about hard or easy, its about QoL removing QoL sucks, its not a balance patch is a removed QoL patch, Tragedy is not going to kill unmarked enemies (at least not in any relevant content) It just make Dante more annoying to play without making him any weaker in open spaces, just feels like crap in enclosed spaces, would take reduced range over LoS check any day (and most people would)

[RainThaBeast]

On 2024-04-10 at 8:05 PM, Voltage said:

Thank you for the hotfix and working towards improving Line of Sight for the entire roster affected by its checks.

Nice! Any chance there could be an explored QoL of allowing mods to be ranked on transaction for trading/resource sinking security?

Do not thank them for "fixing" a problem they caused. They didn't even give the community the Dante revert we wanted. We didn't want los fixed. We want it removed entirely 

 

On 2024-04-11 at 5:32 AM, AEisenhirn said:

Please. Stop tormenting Dante. Remove LoS.

If Dante originally had LoS at launch, no one would have any objections, and he would be as boring a frame as many of the others, judging by the statistics - almost three quarters of all existing ones, including non-prime versions. Take Dante and his accessories away from me, I want the damn platinum back. Guys, has anyone brought Dante back yet? I no longer have the strength to wait for the developers to come to their senses. No hope. And no trust. I'll just collect it in parts, and then raise the frame to the maximum rank and give it to the helminth and forget about it. Same with 75% of other frames. I also think why there is Loki, Ash, Excalibur, Atlas, Hydroid (even after the “improvement”, lmao), Frost, Banshee, Grendel, Yareli, Nyx, Zephyr. And some others that I don’t remember anymore.

I repeat, if this had been the case INITIALLY, we would not have paid attention. But breaking the core mechanics is too much. Let them change the numbers, not the core mechanics. The maximum is numbers. Or improve outsiders. These "improvements" to Dante after the nerf are nothing more than a pathetic sop, a distraction from the main problem. None of this suits me. And as I see, the rest. For God's sake, they shouldn't have introduced improvements to status damage and other improvements. Just remove the damn LoS. Without all other improvements. And if it's so hard for them to think, I'll help them - just reduce range 4, make it the same as for other abilities. All other improvements, I repeat, are dust in the eyes.

The problem is already slowly flowing from the essence of the nerf into the essence of the lies of the developers. They said “a small nerf”, but in the end they buried it below the ground. And then the same developers extremely persistently and stubbornly ignore the most important problem. In addition to lying, they are hypocrites. Instead of correcting pressing problems that were relevant at the time, they put them aside only to remember them almost a decade later, or even more. And now no one needs these corrections anymore. I admit that they are fixing some problematic issues in this and previous patches, but I won’t thank them. Only when it is convenient for them, to try to put out a larger fire, to “make amends” for the consequences of extremely unpopular changes. Trust is a big thing. It is extremely difficult to create, but very easy to lose. But if they are satisfied with “fresh meat” in the form of new players who will blindly run to donate and are not aware of old problems, then the flag is in their hands, we already see that they are not interested in old players or those who are really good at the game, and is focused on playing to level 9999. Okay, pretty good. Let them act as they want. If they like it that way, let them nerf Volt, Sarina, Wisp, Octavia, Misa, Khora, Revenant, Gauss, Mirage, Wukong, Baruuk, and who the hell else is there! Let them be consistent, damn it! Drive all the good frames below ground!
 
And in conclusion - let them return my platinum for Dante and accessories for him, or let them remove LoS. Either they don't value their players.

No. Revert dante to his day one self and leave him alone. None of this bs about nerfing his dmg or range.

On 2024-04-11 at 2:14 AM, captn_Pat said:

You do realize that giving tragedy line of sight ontop of his already los dependant 3 that the realistic amount of mobs you can hit with it is severly diminished right? In the simulacrum you can hit all mobs yes, but when in a regular mission with stairs, slopes all kinds of obstacles regular weapons do a better job than his damage spell, that requires setup and energy for imho too little effect. Please reconsider and hear the copious amounts of people that just dont want line of sight on his 4 at all. Reduce the radius a bit if you must (with a bit i dont mean 50% like on nezha ffs)

I agree, except do not change his range or dmg. Just revert all the nerfs 100%

 

On 2024-04-11 at 2:32 AM, StrawberrySparrow said:

People really need to get over the Dante thing. I get being used to the way things were, but this was clearly the intention from the beginning. Also, you guys should actually try out Dante again before repeating the same points over and over

They tested him before launch. If they wanted him to have los they shoulda launched him with it already. They can't give us something nice and new and take it away without massive outrage from the community. 

 

On 2024-04-11 at 3:06 AM, Museigen said:

Yeah, just take LoS off of Tragedy completely. The new dante tragedy rewards a really tiresome playstyle of instant explosions, and jump and rover to explode, repeatedly.
Release Dante was more dynamic and interesting to play because it offered tactical options, also he felt better in general to play with.
Dante now is tiresome and repetitive compared to release Dante.

Remove the LoS and let the data come. The nerf was too hasty.
If the data say that the range is too big, just nerf the range a little. The problem with line of sight is not a problem of balance exactly, it's a problem of function and gameplay. The Dante with so much LoS checks is a worse character to play, than how he was on release.

Don't give them any ideas about nerfimg range. We all saw how they massacred nezha.

[AEisenhirn]

7 минут назад, RainThaBeast сказал:

No. Revert dante to his day one self and leave him alone. None of this bs about nerfing his dmg or range.

I agree, except do not change his range or dmg. Just revert all the nerfs 100%

I agree with you, but do you understand that this is not real? We can do anything to bring back the original Dante, but it seems to me that on our (the players’) side we need to take much more ambitious measures. Will we do this? I want to believe.

Edited April 11 by AEisenhirn

[Chewarette]

Cool, where are Garuda's fixes for her Line of Sight changes that appeared without any sort of information ?

[Iamthepancake]

Could we also fix everything that scales with enemy hp such as the mod Acid Shells not scaling with the Steel Path enemy HP increase?

[Me-Mow---]

10 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

The following Warframe abilities have received the aforementioned improvements: 

• Excalibur’s Radial Blind (Rendered Check)
• Excalibur Umbra’s Radial Howl (Rendered Check)
• Dante’s Dark Verse (Rendered Check)
• Helminth’s Sickening Pulse (Rendered Check)
• Hildryn’s Pillage (Rendered Check)
• Mag’s Pull (Rendered Check)
• Nova’s Null Star Augment (Rendered Check)
• Hildryn’s Aegis Storm (Raycast Check from floor where Hildryn is hovering)
• Khora’s Whipclaw (Raycast Checks from multiple points around the whip's impact)
• Qorvex’s Chyrinka Pillar (Raycast Checks from top and center of pillar)

The above changes also tangentially fixes the issue of low FOV preventing LoS checks from occurring (this was most reported for Dante’s Dark Verse, Hildryn’s Pillage, Khora’s Whipclaw, Mirage’s Prism, and Mag’s Pull). 
 

More LoS Improvements in Future Update: 
The following Warframe abilities will be receiving the same treatment in a future update, since they require Cert update (more information on what this means here) in order to launch across all platforms. 

• Ember’s Fire Blast
• Gyre’s Rotorswell
• Vauban’s Tesla Bank Augment
  • While a Cert update is required to apply the new LoS checks onto Vauban’s Tesla bank, we have in the meantime fixed the AoE from the mines getting blocked by non-static objects.The Augment was preventing the mines from behaving as they do in their non-augmented state where they check for cover for static objects (level geometry), so we’ve rectified that so that it is subject to the same checks as Tesla Nervos AoE.
• Zephyr’s Tailwind (Dive Bomb) 

Hi!

Is there any plan to review vorunas second ability too?

Sometimes even standing on different elevation stops her pouncing even with clear line of sight at the enemy.

Thank you.

[DarthVZ]

As expected, DE just doubles downs. At least we managed to claw back something I guess? In any case all I can do is hope that this behaviour will affect players financial decisions in the future. 

[ZeroDusk]

Thank you for the Nezha base range increase!! I think it's totally reasonable. And wow was not expecting the LoS changes to so many Warframes which is awesome!! Really love you guys and all the feedback you take into consideration 💖

[_King_Nothing_77]

10 hours ago, Galexivity said:

I believe I speak for the majority when the main issue with Dante when it comes to Tragedy is the LoS. While we appreciate the fixes that you are doing, you need to see that the best fix for Dante's tragedy is to revert the LoS changes on it and make it a circle again. Reduce the range of it if that's the problem. Don't make it one-shot level 26 enemies if that's the problem. But once again, you're missing the mark just by a tad. Please just get rid of LoS for Dante's Tragedy. There are so many reasons and possible solutions that members have asked for who play your game for hours on end. We love you DE, but we really want you to listen. ;n;

Definitely, I feel like reducing the range of tragedy down to say 25 meters in exchange for reverting line of sight would be fair

[H0LDEN]

9 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

NOTE: Warframes that grant themselves Overguard, like Kullervo or Rhino, will not be able to trigger Rage and Hunter Adrenaline from their own Overguard. Only Overguard granted by allies is eligible because this is the only interaction that is potentially disruptive to your build (i.e your ally puts Overguard onto your Rage-Build Nidus). 

Well there is no distinctive way with the current UI to discern self-granted overguard vs ally-granted overguard. Kullervo hovers around 20k self-granted overguard with a decent build, Dante can easily push 50k to allies. Are you really telling me if I have say 1k self-granted overguard and 49k ally-granted overguard the mods would be non-functional?

[0xPalki]

DE killed Dante after "small changes" and are trying to kill the rest of the frames (but not the popular ones like Sarina or Volt).  Bring back the original Dante, remove LoS.

 And fix the Topaz Archon Shard that you broke in the winter.  You removed the shield gate for it, but the description is still not true!  It is written to kill the enemy, but it works when imposing a status.  Fix it or return the original version.

It seems that while earning a lot of money on Warframe, you cannot hire a separate team of testers and you simply release updates without proper testing, guided by the fact that Warframe has been in open beta for 11 years.

Edited April 11 by 0xPalki

[Kerlism]

Alright I have lots to say,

 

  Dante first. Pageflight getting status damage back is nice, unneeded nerf when it was done (like much from the DA patch but I digress). But giving DE credit for reverting this when it shouldn't have happened to begin with would be pretty disingenuous of me, and rather than pretend this is some huge W for DE we can just forgive this specific change and move on. The resulting 1 billion damage cap on tragedy is fortunately very generous and the reasoning behind it is understandable, no complaints there. However, I still don't see why LoS must remain on Tragedy. In the last Dev Shorts, Reb saying it is due to it being the largest AoE without LoS kinda falls short of a good explanation. Sure when used against level >30 ish enemies the full range is certainly a problem since the base damage of the ability is good enough to clear without setup at that level, however going any higher in level and the LoS really begins feeling like an extremely short sighted change. The base damage simply cannot kill once you reach a certain enemy level unless you bend over backwards to shove as much strength into Dante as possible, even then you'd struggle to comfortably kill level 100 enemies (even without SP modifiers), meanwhile moving from group to group to spread status procs now poses the risk of a wall, environment object, or buggy LoS making Tragedy fail to deal damage entirely which has a huge negative impact on his feel while you play him. Easiest way to solve this is to remove LoS on tragedy and do one of two things, 1. Reduce the range, this will suck yes but it helps solve the low level clearing aspect of tragedy (personally I would go from 30m->25m to keep it hitting enemies without feeling constrained on range), or 2. Reduce the base damage of the ability to encourage people to focus more on the status detonation rather than the base damage (i would have it go from 6500->3000-3500 ish, a big decrease to the base damage but without touching the status multiplier!). Moving away from Tragedy, his OG generation should also be increased now that the Vex Armor/Rage/Hunter Adrenaline synergies have been ironed out, since as of right now it feels extremely lackluster. Personally, a full revert on the OG number tweaks would be best but if it must remain toned back somehow than here's what I suggest, Triumph be increased from 3000->4000-4500 (since the current -40% from launch feels extremely undeserved) and Light Verse increased from 350->450 (since it genuinely feels like it does nothing rn outside of casting the variants of Final Verse). Overall, Dante still has a lot of changes needed to make him feel great again.

  The LoS improvements in general are definitely appreciated even if they came to be due to the Dante incident, however LoS has been clunky and very gross to use on most of the things that require it so it getting improved is genuinely a very nice change. 

  Divine Retribution getting a much more fair range reduction is great, again not much credit to hand out since the -50% shouldn't have been as extreme as it was when they initially changed it. Nezha mains can rejoice knowing the augment needed to make your spears worthwhile will no longer heavily screw with your range lol, thank god.

  OG working with the major health damage based buffs is definitely nice however, Rage/Hunter Adrenaline not working with self generated OG is such a pointed change towards making this work on everyone except Kullervo. This is so unbelievably silly that it's sort of sad, a potential new synergy down the drain due to an exception that really only impacts a single frame, but at the very least it didn't kill any already existing synergies.

  Finally, Arca Titron getting a little boost is nice after it got completely gutted, I never used it personally but the change from the slam buff being multiplicative to additive seemed pretty unneeded since they could've just reduced the multiplier rather than making it a base damage boost. Although prenerf, the slam changes made its multiplier pretty disgustingly broken, I think a multiplier is much more satisfying than more base damage, however I'm not one to speak for it since I never cared to use it.

 

We still have lots to do here DE, this is a good step but you took so many steps backwards in the DA hotfix that we need a little more than just a few steps.

[Drake_MPrime]

Ok nice, let's keep those changes for a while and we'll see...

[Gaxxian]

Remove base dmg & LoS from Tragedy. Tyvm :)

[SuperGameChief]

Please fix the soft-lock bug on Voidrig's grenade ability! Thank you!

[MouthfulOJoules]

11 hours ago, ConanThLibrarian said:

Hydraulic Barrel mod has disappeared from the game and inventory.

It was a perfect mod to optimize Catabolys with the new augment.

Conclave stuff getting thrown into the gutter, what a story.

[[DE]Momaw]

8 minutes ago, SuperGameChief said:

Please fix the soft-lock bug on Voidrig's grenade ability! Thank you!

This is on our Known Issues list. Because it requires code related changers, it cannot be delivered until the next platform cert update.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1388578-dante-unbound-known-issues-thread/

 

[SamaelWar]

The latest "fix" of LoS of Tragedy's Dante is still very buggy. As you mentioned DE please make it AoE and shrink the range of Tragedy, that big range even have been the largest in Warframe is useless with that LoS mechanics because it cant kill more than 20-30 meters, even just a few enemies. We do not need that big range on ability which barely kills and its considered as Ultimate ability. It has to be AoE even with short range like 30ish meters or something like this. That LoS is not for Dante, you shown it as Frame without that mechanics on his Tragedy, so let it be that way as you shown it in first place.

Edited April 11 by SamaelWar

[Phoenician]

24 minutes ago, [DE]Momaw said:

This is on our Known Issues list. Because it requires code related changers, it cannot be delivered until the next platform cert update.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1388578-dante-unbound-known-issues-thread/

 

This is all that is responded to? Nothing to address the fact that this thread is once again filled with OVERWHELMING community feedback regarding Dante?

[MorkiePrime]

wow, you did to chroma is good "Thumps Up DE", he is usable now..like the damage increase by the way

Edited April 11 by MorkiePrime

[Siic07]

You say that Dante was too strong so you add LOS to him

 

And they say that he is still very strong with LOS which is a lie Dante is now not put in S-Tier both on Websites and by Content Creators.

 

And why he's no longer in S-Tier because of what's the point of having a lot of damage if the damage doesn't hit almost anyone.

 

That's why now he can't even compete against Saryn, Octavia because of LOS made him turn into a completely bad warframe to play and totally boring.

 

[Shadow_of_Christ]

REVERT LOS CHANGES AND THEN REMOVE LOS THEN REVERT DANTE TO ORIGINAL RELEASE this is 95% feedback please acknowledge it and stop avoiding it.

[Grimm49]

are dread mirror and blood altar supposed to be LOS?