PC PC Dante Unbound: Hotfix 35.5.6

[ObsidianSage]

2 minutes ago, Nero.DMC said:

it is circular but inconsistenly circular, you are pointing your camara to the front in certain angle and you will target anything being rendered, your back is not being rendered hence you wont get the rendered enemies if the 3 lines they are tracing from them to you are obscured he will not be hit even tho you could technically see him by rotating the camera and being hence hit by your ability, LoS is awful and inconsistent.

That's expands how I understand it to work nicely. By which I don't mean that it works nicely, just that your explanation does. 

[owendawgx]

Thank you so much for not forgetting about the Arca Titron! I haven't tested yet but I will later, I'm hopeful!

[Rigtis]

hace 1 hora, [DE]Megan dijo:

General Overguard Change:

• Frost’s Icy Avalanche Augment Mod will now grant Overguard to non-player allies in radius (i.e. Sentinels, Companions, Specters). 

This is a nice and all, but is still inconsistent with other overguard sources. It is still removed when falling out of bounds and dispelled by nullifers, while other sources of overguard are not affected by these enemies.

[Gaxxian]

hace 9 minutos, TheTundraTerror dijo:

Hundreds of people asking to revert the LoS checks and DE just ignores all of them. If the issue was Tragedy being able to kill level 20 fodder units on Star Chart with three casts, well... than just remove the damage it does itself and remove LoS. I don't know why people are asking for a range nerf or why DE is claiming the range is an issue. Honestly, the fact that so many people don't realize Tragedy did any amounts of damage itself is kind of telling how little would change from removing that minor amount of damage.

This

[Flim_]

Still in the boat of removing LOS from tragedy...

[Tiltskillet]

Just now, Rigtis said:

This is a nice and all, but is still inconsistent with other overguard sources. It is still removed when falling out of bounds and dispelled by nullifers, while other sources of overguard are not affected by these enemies.

Rhino and Atlas Overguard work the same way as Frost's.  So his is consistent with some!

[tartcactus]

What a load of crap. Good job, FE. You have proved me right. Absolutely tone deaf.

Essentially, we refuse to listen to what you want, but, Yay us, we are working on all these bugs in other frames that have been broken for years. Give me a stinking break!

[Armadillidium_vulgare]

2 minutes ago, MrDugan said:

I made a thread warning y'all that they were going to screw a bunch of other stuff up with this.  Everyone kept telling me "oh they're listening to us, cause they're making the LOS nerf that no one wanted better!"

Nope.  All accepting LOS did was give them an open door to feel free to nerf everything else with this nonsense.  Not enough people stuck to demanding a full revert from them because everyone wants to act like compromise is best for everyone.  Well, they can have it.  I'm going back on hiatus from giving them money or engagement numbers.

Pillage was a LOS ability before these changes. He was standing behind a pillar so that he couldn't see the enemies. Even before the latest patch, NONE of those enemies would have been affected. You're taking the fact that Pillage doesn't do something it never did as evidence it was a nerf. 

[Siaw]

10 minutes ago, ObsidianSage said:

I have tested to see if Tragedy will hit targets directly behind me

It only does if the enemies are fully "visible" aka their entire body could be seen if you rotated the camera, as soon as they get obstructed by anything and 1% of their body isn't seen the LoS will fail, so in the end we got an improved LoS to enemies on camera but the same old LoS on enemies behind you and further away than 5 meters lol

[--RV--Honda]

Le reddit momento

[Rigtis]

hace 7 minutos, Kaelxiv dijo:

We have Frames that have similar abilities already that do not require LoS and can clear rooms very fast (Equinox, Saryn, Sevagoth, Lavos, etc.), I do not see the reason for Dante specifically to receive this nerf

Do you guys realize that if we keep repeating this, all it may cause is that they "fix" those frames too? I mean, is not like there's anything stopping them from doing it anyways. Nobody thought Dante would be nerfed and here we are.

[vFlitz]

4 minutes ago, Nero.DMC said:

it is circular but inconsistenly circular, you are pointing your camara to the front in certain angle and you will target anything being rendered, your back is not being rendered hence you wont get the rendered enemies if the 3 lines they are tracing from them to you are obscured he will not be hit even tho you could technically see him by rotating the camera and being hence hit by your ability, LoS is awful and inconsistent.

Yeah, it working differently for things in front of you and things behind you definitely adds to the perceived inconsistency. On top of that it gives people with ultra-wide screens an additional advantage because they can render more of their surroundings at any given moment.

With how Warframe's maps are designed, LoS just doesn't make much sense for an instant large scale ability that is launched from your frame's position. All the inconsistency is easier to work around if it's something like Whipclaw that is sent out and performs a LoS check from a remote position, or Pillage that is a lingering effect that can truncate some misfires (though that is not to say they don't feel annoying at times). For Tragedy it doubly doesn't make sense because Tragedy is a combo finisher, not a standalone nuke.

[MrDugan]

4 minutes ago, owendawgx said:

Thank you so much for not forgetting about the Arca Titron! I haven't tested yet but I will later, I'm hopeful!

Don't be.  Do some insanely basic math.  It did not function at 1,000%.  Do you think it will suddenly go from "non-functional" to back to where it was before any of the slam changes because of a 25% increase to the additive base damage bonus?  Mine used to one shot lvl200 SP heavy gunners with just capacitor charges and no combo.  It went from doing that, to doing less than 10% of the same enemy's health with the same set up and circumstances.  If it was only doing 10% after the nerf, what do you think it's going to do with a 25% increase to the bonus damage?

Because I've already tested it, and it's still trash.  It's the most laughable change possible.  I cannot fathom how they thought this would fix anything.

[supersauceiro]

Have to say, as a Mag main that has bought a LOT of plat, I am really disappointed with these LOS changes.  Mag is already extremely squishy and is now substantially harder and less fun to play unless she's in a wide open area without a lot of geometry in it.

What exactly do these LOS changes "improve"?  They just make the game less fun and more tedious.  Maybe it's time to move on.

[-ShadowRadiance-]

3 minutes ago, Rigtis said:

Do you guys realize that if we keep repeating this, all it may cause is that they "fix" those frames too? I mean, is not like there's anything stopping them from doing it anyways. Nobody thought Dante would be nerfed and here we are.

That is preferable. 

Either nerf all frames to be in the same state. Or do not 'bind' one single frame with BS reasoning.

[MerlintheAgeless]

40 minutes ago, NoobNoobNoobilla said:

Can I have the -50% on the divine spears augment back? You took another 4.5 meters from it
280% range
Normal: 53.2m
Nerf (-50%): 43.7m
Current: 39.2m

it was -50% *base range*

so the correct numbers are

Unaugmented: 19m * 280% Range = 53.2m

Augmented on Release: 53.2m (same as base range)

Nerfed Augmented: 19m * 0.5 * 280% Range = 26.6m

New Augmented: 14m * 2.8% Range = 39.2m

[TheTundraTerror]

1 minute ago, MrDugan said:

Don't be.  Do some insanely basic math.  It did not function at 1,000%.  Do you think it will suddenly go from "non-functional" to back to where it was before any of the slam changes because of a 25% increase to the additive base damage bonus?  Mine used to one shot lvl200 SP heavy gunners with just capacitor charges and no combo.  It went from doing that, to doing less than 10% of the same enemy's health with the same set up and circumstances.  If it was only doing 10% after the nerf, what do you think it's going to do with a 25% increase to the bonus damage?

Because I've already tested it, and it's still trash.  It's the most laughable change possible.  I cannot fathom how they thought this would fix anything.

Meanwhile, Food Stamp Xoris with the Melee Influence letting me nuke my way through Steel Path missions like the mobs barely exist.

[Tiltskillet]

4 minutes ago, MrDugan said:

I made a thread warning y'all that they were going to screw a bunch of other stuff up with this.  Everyone kept telling me "oh they're listening to us, cause they're making the LOS nerf that no one wanted better!"

Nope.  All accepting LOS did was give them an open door to feel free to nerf everything else with this nonsense.  Not enough people stuck to demanding a full revert from them because everyone wants to act like compromise is best for everyone.  Well, they can have it.  I'm going back on hiatus from giving them money or engagement numbers.

It sounds like if it wasn't this it would have been something else that pushed you to take a break, but FWIW Pillage has always had LoS requirements.  If anything, it'll be better at tagging targets that aren't rendered.

[Arbitrary]

17 minutes ago, MrDugan said:

I made a thread warning y'all that they were going to screw a bunch of other stuff up with this.  Everyone kept telling me "oh they're listening to us, cause they're making the LOS nerf that no one wanted better!"

Nope.  All accepting LOS did was give them an open door to feel free to nerf everything else with this nonsense.  Not enough people stuck to demanding a full revert from them because everyone wants to act like compromise is best for everyone.  Well, they can have it.  I'm going back on hiatus from giving them money or engagement numbers.

Lol. Lmao even. All that video shows is Pillage working perfectly fine, perhaps even better than before.

Here, have a video of Pillage (made mere minutes ago) being extremely generous with a LoS check.

After seeing an enemy, they are considered to be in LoS for a bit after, even if you cannot see them.

Edited April 10 by Arbitrary

[Agall]

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

Line Of Sight (Los) Improvements 

As announced last week, we have revisited LoS checks on other Warframes to bring them in line with the new and improved version of Dante’s LoS added in Hotfix 35.5.4. 

To reiterate, there are now two variations of LoS checking: 

1. The first type of check sees if any part of the enemy has been drawn on the screen, so that any part of an enemy, big or small, is considered visible/eligible to pass the LoS check.
2. The second type of check is for enemies that are not on screen. We now check for LoS to the enemy's head, torso, and feet instead of only to their body which will increase reliability there as well.

For Abilities that hit enemies in a full circle around you, both checks are used: Once to evaluate enemies that you can see and then a second sweep to check targets to the sides and behind you that aren't visible.
 

The following Warframe abilities have received the aforementioned improvements: 

• Excalibur’s Radial Blind (Rendered Check)
• Excalibur Umbra’s Radial Howl (Rendered Check)
• Dante’s Dark Verse (Rendered Check)
• Helminth’s Sickening Pulse (Rendered Check)
• Hildryn’s Pillage (Rendered Check)
• Mag’s Pull (Rendered Check)
• Nova’s Null Star Augment (Rendered Check)
• Hildryn’s Aegis Storm (Raycast Check from floor where Hildryn is hovering)
• Khora’s Whipclaw (Raycast Checks from multiple points around the whip's impact)
• Qorvex’s Chyrinka Pillar (Raycast Checks from top and center of pillar)

What about Radial Javelin?

It still has the severely limted LoS restriction that was introduced years ago with the heavy nerfs. With Excalibur Umbra's new augment likely increasing the frequency of his use in end-game content, I think its worth revisiting this ability as well.

If reverting/improving its LoS restriction isn't an option, potentially making the ability a pseudo-exalted to get its damage on par and synergize with Exalted Blade (and in that case its own augment).

[Nero.DMC]

6 minutes ago, Rigtis said:

Do you guys realize that if we keep repeating this, all it may cause is that they "fix" those frames too? I mean, is not like there's anything stopping them from doing it anyways. Nobody thought Dante would be nerfed and here we are.

Good more people complaining and telling them what to do to fix the stupid mistakes they keep making, this would be the best, they would loose more money and eventually realize that people PLAYING their game do not enjoy LoS

[Void_Vis_Vires]

1 hour ago, LittleLeoniePrime said:

this exception is stupid. it should either work never or always. making such a weird exception just feels unintuitive.

 I agree. This is also really frustrating because for years now I have ran melee health tank builds on Excal and most of my frames. Now since this doenst apply outside of those frames I literally cant play the way i have for years whenever there is a source of over guard present. And they keep adding more and more ways for playing to give over guard.
 

Will you all at DE please consider making it so that over guard generates energy for hunter adrenaline and rage. That or please give us a toggle to opt out of receiving over guard. Im not trying to be dramatic but this is quite literally ruining the game for me and id rather not start dropping from squads that have an over guard frame whenever i see them. I would rather simply not receive the defensive benefit from over guard if it disables my main play style.

[Stajo98]

#UNBIND DANTE

Reb said it herself in Devshorts 11, the issue with Tragedy was it having such high range! Lower the range and remove los. I do not understand why DE are so stubbornly clinging to this stupid nerf. 

[Frame-5858]

Dear DE,
You seem intent on doubling down on this LoS change. I would like to know why? What benefit is there to the system that the old method did not have? What do you know that the players do not?

Thank you for your time in answering this question.

[MrDugan]

10 minutes ago, Armadillidium_vulgare said:

Pillage was a LOS ability before these changes. He was standing behind a pillar so that he couldn't see the enemies. Even before the latest patch, NONE of those enemies would have been affected. You're taking the fact that Pillage doesn't do something it never did as evidence it was a nerf. 

It was LOS before, but it does not feel the same now as it did before.  Argue with it all you want, they're going to keep making abilities worse with this nonsense.  That's what I was saying, and I frankly don't care about anyone else's opinion on the matter, because DE is going to prove me right regardless of how much I argue with the damage control team.  They will keep slapping this on stuff, it will make all of them worse, they will fix nothing, and since they spent dev time on "fixing" LOS, you can expect to see more of this moving forward.  Gotta get some mileage out of their new toy.