Petition to add LOS to Gauss, Saryn and Equinox

[yeahnil]

I'm sure you're confident in it's quality, now that you've doubled down on it for Dante. Other frames could also stand to profit from it. I'm sure people won't mind.

[OnestarMike]

Sounds good to me. Feels pretty fair. Never understood why I could infinitely kill a map of enemies with one button.
🙃

[crazywolfpusher]

4 hours ago, yeahnil said:

I'm sure you're confident in it's quality, now that you've doubled down on it for Dante. Other frames could also stand to profit from it. I'm sure people won't mind.

Fine for me. Just give them Overguard and Overguard regeneration in exchange.

 

[Tiltskillet]

Dante  jealous of Equinox? 

[0_The_F00l]

2 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Dante  jealous of Equinox? 

Haha ,

True , when I originally saw dante I thought "ok , there goes the equinox rework I guess" 

Cause the abilities did feel similar , or atleast has some concepts that would work well on equinox.

The more i played though the more I saw the differences , and dante still kind of comes ahead by quite a margin.

As to the OP ,

Gauss LoS , I am all in for , along with a slightly muted fx.

Saryn has two abilities , that depend on range , you talking of spore or miasma ? I think it would be interesting to have spores work similar to wisps breach surge. The create literal spores that seek enemies in LoS on bursting.

Equinox already has weird mechanics (not to mention the sheer complexity of her kit)  that reduce damage the further you are , need you to get kills by external means and the damage type is also not ideal above a certain level (mostly due to Armor) . If you plan to change equinox collected damage to bleed then i wouldn't mind an los check.

[ShogunGunshow]

Sure. It should be consistent. Saryn will still be powerful. Thermal Sunder getting capped in the head, especially as a helminth, is a positive, and Equinox's garbage hasn't been good in years anyway. 

[vixenpixel]

Gauss already has LoS. He slams into every single wall. 

On a more serious note. Though Im not a gauss player really because the spamming of his abilities are exhausting, I feel like -creating a damage field- by default is different from pulsing out a nova like effect. If you place a spherical shape on the ground or if you produce a nova like spread these are different and shouldn't necessarily be subject to the same mechanical limitations. In this case I do feel like balance should be the deciding factor. Also, if you are using "saryn being a strong nuker" as your main source of material for reverting nerfs on a frame, I feel like you are doing it wrong already. In this context you need to compare the entire frame. Dante has a remarkable repertoire of tools whereas Saryn is very focused on her disease theme. She is versatile but not at all in the same sense of Dante. Dante also is a squad buff frame with one of the most disgustingly OP defensive abilities I have ever seen. Overguard regeneration. This essentially renders him entirely immortal and completely status immune forever. It's like a better mesmer skin. How can people actually then ontop of him being essentially the tankiest frame in the game, additionally want the nuking capabilities of a glass cannon frame? It just completely blows me away that people are this conceited about it. 

[Waeleto]

[Samhel]

Yes please

[Harutomata]

Equinox doesn't deserve a nerf.
Her night form is relevantly less useful because of HP tanking becoming a downgrade instead of a sidegrade to shield tanking, and the channeling part of Mend got really powercrept compared to the shield restoration that Hildryn and Protea can provide. The CC part of her night form isn't in a great spot because of the spot CC is in general.

Unlike Dante's 4th, Maim has nearly half of its base range, needs channeling to store up damage (that you, or teammates have to do, so it can't even be considered disruptive to others), and the damage the ability casts after channeling is not a slash proc, so it's useless against anything armored on SP without casting armor strip before it. If anything, it made it very apparent that Dante's 4th needs changing. But Dante players don't like hearing that.

If Equinox got a LoS check on her one actually relevant ability (Dante has many others), then she'd need a rework or buff on all her other abilities. The state of the "DPS meta" already makes her night form not have many incentive to be used.
With the way Equinox is currently, wouldn't be very smart or warranted to go after her just for the sake of "consistency".
But then again DE nerfed the Halikar disarm for the sake of that even though there were probably 5 people using that weapon. So who knows what kind of feedback they consider reasonable at this point.

[Aruquae]

Aside from Equinox I agree with the others

She already has enough limitations and a good ramp up that falls off without armor strip. I think a damage falloff would be better. 

[L3512]

Saryn's ultimate form is a weapon buffer.

[Gaxxian]

hace 3 minutos, L3512 dijo:

Saryn's ultimate form is a weapon buffer.

XDDD

Just as Dante is an OG weapon platform, lol xD

[yeahnil]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb vixenpixel:

How can people actually then ontop of him being essentially the tankiest frame in the game

Overguard is downright useless later on. Even if you have 100+k lvl 1000 mobs deplete it one or two shots. So yeah, tell me how he's the tankiest again. 

vor 3 Stunden schrieb vixenpixel:

It's like a better mesmer skin. How can people actually then ontop of him being essentially the tankiest frame in the game, additionally want the nuking capabilities of a glass cannon frame? It just completely blows me away that people are this conceited about it. 

You're not really playing levelcap or later modes, are you? Mesmer skin takes a single cast, has built in CC and can be recast anytime. Saying that it's stronger than OG is a cope if I've ever seen one.

 

vor 3 Stunden schrieb vixenpixel:

Also, if you are using "saryn being a strong nuker" as your main source of material for reverting nerfs on a frame, I feel like you are doing it wrong already.

You mean apart from having one of he best nukes in game, being able to turn literally any subsume into a nuke (newest case, Loki's decoy augment) and being one of the best weapon frames with free toxin & corrosive on a weapon and a get out of jail free card with molt? Yeah she's so bad that Pablo is afraid of touching her again, because he has no idea how to nerf her ("I'm afraid to do rework no 18")

 

Sure buddy

[SneakyErvin]

7 minutes ago, yeahnil said:

Overguard is downright useless later on. Even if you have 100+k lvl 1000 mobs deplete it one or two shots. So yeah, tell me how he's the tankiest again. 

Do you even Dante bro? He has infinite OG aslong as you kill atleast 1 mob each 2 seconds, it is really that simple. I love the people that go "I need to do these many 22 and 224 before being able to survive!". No you do a single 224 and then you kill until it is time to rebuff. Only reason to currently do it more often is to "fix" the bug with companions and melee, and maybe in a DA incase your group mates got S#&$ty picks that wont let them kill regularly.

12 minutes ago, yeahnil said:

You're not really playing levelcap or later modes, are you? Mesmer skin takes a single cast, has built in CC and can be recast anytime. Saying that it's stronger than OG is a cope if I've ever seen one.

In SP Rev's Skin lasts for about as many seconds as it has charges, so 20 charges means rebuffing roughly around each 20-25 sec. Dante is immortal for aslong as his 4 is active, for me that is around 75 seconds. You only need to monitor it versus things like regular demos and the fragmented one that can actually dispell you. Funny part is that you are immune to Violence silence, but a scrambus will rape your buffs with a broken bottle and a rusty knife.

16 minutes ago, yeahnil said:

You mean apart from having one of he best nukes in game, being able to turn literally any subsume into a nuke (newest case, Loki's decoy augment) and being one of the best weapon frames with free toxin & corrosive on a weapon and a get out of jail free card with molt? Yeah she's so bad that Pablo is afraid of touching her again, because he has no idea how to nerf her ("I'm afraid to do rework no 18")

No she doesnt. She has an attrition "nuke", which can scale up decently. But lets face it, even at a 10k stack it is still "only" 30k damage which needs to tick. Dante is hundreds of thousands and millions of damage on demand, damage that gives zero #*!%s about armor in the first place, and everything else dies since nothing else has enough health/shields to take the hit.

[vixenpixel]

23 minutes ago, yeahnil said:

Overguard is downright useless later on. Even if you have 100+k lvl 1000 mobs deplete it one or two shots. So yeah, tell me how he's the tankiest again. 

If you actually read what I wrote you would understand the tech. Let me explain in simpler terms. Overguard regeneration. If you constantly regenerate something without a cooldown and have a 0.5 iframe window you are in fact immortal. Because 1 and 1000 is the same number in terms of iframe creation. 

26 minutes ago, yeahnil said:

You mean apart from having one of he best nukes in game, being able to turn literally any subsume into a nuke (newest case, Loki's decoy augment) and being one of the best weapon frames with free toxin & corrosive on a weapon and a get out of jail free card with molt? Yeah she's so bad that Pablo is afraid of touching her again, because he has no idea how to nerf her ("I'm afraid to do rework no 18")

Sure buddy

So snide when you don't even get it. XD

[Tiltskillet]

3 hours ago, Harutomata said:

With the way Equinox is currently, wouldn't be very smart or warranted to go after her just for the sake of "consistency".
But then again DE nerfed the Halikar disarm for the sake of that even though there were probably 5 people using that weapon. So who knows what kind of feedback they consider reasonable at this point.

Who knows?, indeed.  But the situations are pretty different.  Incredibly niche as Halikar was, it wasn't just a consistency fix (and disarms still aren't totally consistent) it was a bug fix.   Maim lacking LoS reqs isn't a bug, and adding them would be a major balance change to a longstanding frame.  Something DE is historically reluctant to do unless the frame is dominating play in some fashion.

 

[Aruquae]

38 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Who knows?, indeed.  But the situations are pretty different.  Incredibly niche as Halikar was, it wasn't just a consistency fix (and disarms still aren't totally consistent) it was a bug fix.   Maim lacking LoS reqs isn't a bug, and adding them would be a major balance change to a longstanding frame.  Something DE is historically reluctant to do unless the frame is dominating play in some fashion.

 

Not to mention maim has a ramp up, could also contribute to them being hesitant about adding LoS

[Tiltskillet]

10 minutes ago, Aruquae said:

Not to mention maim has a ramp up, could also contribute to them being hesitant about adding LoS

Yeah, balance issues aside.  I didn't want to get into that because Equinox would clearly need other adjustments if LoS was added to Maim. (And she really could use several  adjustments anyway: any rational person would admit she's much worse off overall than Dante has been at any time in his short but very eventful existence.)   If somebody really wants to categorize the Halikar change as a balance adjustment at all, it's clearly on a far different scale than LoS-restricted Maim would be.

[Roble_Viejo]

I have the feeling DE will unironically do this

For DE Warframe isn't just their job, its their LIFE.
This is a good thing 99% of the time, but when
it comes to "Balance" it always misses the mark.
For them its personal, they are stubborn about it
they will keep doubling down in a power trip 🙃

I thought under Rebb and Pablo's Era this was over, I
wonder who exactly wants LoS on Dante at all costs 🤔

Objectively speaking: This is bad for Sales
Why would you buy the latest Supporter Pack if the
Warframe is gonna get Nerfed 1 week after release?

This is PvE Looter Shooter game, so called "Power Fantasy"
by DE themselves, so why are they scared of power? 
That's because they cant detect Bots properly and any
Warframe capable of Afk'ing is considered an offender.

If Saryn and Octavia not only exist but keep getting Buffed
then why in the heck the newest frame deserves a Nerf? 😕

My words might sound controversial, but I LOVE Warframe.
This game needs to be the BEST it can possibly be, and is not
exclusively for DE to decide, the Community has a word too.

Want to Nerf the Afk'ers ? Then spawn more Mini Bosses !
Make better Missions, based on fighting and not idling 🗿

[Numerounius]

How would you add LOS to them then? I can think of multiple ways of adding it, some where it might be good and others where it might be bad.

Edited April 12 by Numerounius

[-ShadowRadiance-]

Sinxe accuracy is a stat. Add it to proteas blaze artillery turret *nods*

Give her turret a... 30% chance to miss *nods* or just blow itself up cause it got jammed. *nods* 

 

Should be good with protea primes release around the corner. *nods* 

But lets wait 2 days after prime access release B4 doing these nerfs so it wont affect sales *nods*

[Stormandreas]

Sure, lets do it.

As a Gauss player, it makes absolutely 0 difference considering his speed.

Saryn should yes, use LoS on Miasma, with 1 exception. If the enemy has a spore on it, Miasma still works. Makes the kit even more synergistic around sporing enemies and popping spores.

Equinox does need a little love, so while we're at it, lets buff her up and make her kit more cohesive. LoS honestly wont make that big of an impact other than maybe 4-7 enemies behind a door at that point.

Anyone who wants to claim Octavia, she requires LoS, always has. Pick a better example. Mesa too, as does Revenant.
Other things that require LoS already:

• Pillage also requires LoS, I guess Hildryn is terrible to? (imo, other than pillage she kinda is mostly cause her 1 is just not great and her 4 far to shield hungry with no pillage access)
• Fireblast
• Mag essentially requires LoS because enemies get stuck on walls and corners which isn't useful.
• Strangeldome
• Desolate hands
• Ash - All
• Quorvex - all
• Banshee - Sonic boom, though I'd actually like Silence to require LoS so enemies don't keep getting stunned rooms away where I can't see or do anything to them (and nor they I)
• Gyre
• Proteas Blaze Artillery
• Etc.

(my point here is, there are TONS of things in this game that require LoS and are in no way considered trash. Why is Dante suddenly dumpstered because he needs LoS and has needed LoS anyway the whole time because Dark Verse required it? He isn't.)

There are some exceptions that would make sense.

• Novas Molecular prime - Literally bathes the area in Antimatter. You think walls will stop antimatter? Yea, not likely
• Volts Overloa... Discharge - Electricity also tends not to care about walls provided the material it's going through has some sort of conductivity
• Garas Mass Vitrify - Honestly I dunno how they'd even manage to code this to work for LoS in the first place. It doesn't seem overly feasable. 

Edited April 11 by Stormandreas

[Museigen]

It's really baffling those ideas, absurd! I don't know how they thought it would be a good idea to shove it down Dante, a perfectly good and cool frame with a very successful release!

Edited April 11 by Museigen

[(XBOX)XYZ RUMBEL]

No