Quick Thinking Is A Worthless Mod

[Brimir]

Xcom sounds like fun.

 

The new one? Eh, it's OK and a worthy reboot of the franchise, but lacks the depth of the original.

[low1991]

QT+R was the only viable way I had of keeping Valkyr alive.

 

Armor sucks on Warframes right now, so the design of Valkyr is therefore terrible. How to fix? QT+R.

 

My new build for Valkyr is... Vigor, Vitality, Fortitude, Redirection, Rage.   Constitution, Continuity, Hysteria.

 

Yes, 1 ability.

 

 

You want to know what's OP DE? How about a Trinity with just Rage? Yep, you can never die that way. Tell you what, just remove both mods from Warframe entirely, they obviously weren't meant to be.

 

I do not understand how we ended up with this... QT+R is OP and you never die! Something must be done! IDEA, Let's rework how the mod works entirely! Good? Great! Done.

 

Wat? Why not just drop 40% off of the QT? Or better yet, don't come up with such stupid ideas as 240% energy back in to health in the first place? You set yourself up for this kind of thing that way. It is best to be avoided. Instead of nerfing the mod in to oblivion to fix your own mistake, just do only what is necessary. Seriously, who's idea was it to completely change how the mod works? Why is just changing the percentage not a better idea?

 

I wouldn't be too concerned about this atm if one of two things were to happen.

 

1: Armor gets fixed.

2: There is some way to get significant health back without the obvious things. (Trinity, Nekros, etc.) Maybe some new mod that makes health drop from enemies?

Agreed.

 

atm i don't see the point of equipping QT... 15 mod points for 2 health back that will slowly drains your energy over time?? 

[Tenzek]

I have not been using Steel Fiber because armor does not work properly.

 

I wish I had included it in the video, but a single shot from an Ogris will kill you instantly even with QT+R. If enough overkill damage is applied, you will die and QT will do nothing to save you.

 

 

I will retry this with a rank 9 steel fiber and see what happens.

 

 

 

 

[EDIT] Nope, still die just as fast under the same conditions as my original video. If you would like I can submit a video, otherwise if you do not feel that is necessary then you can take my word for it.

 

I'll take your word for it, but you didn't answer my question.

 

How much armor did you have? The Valkyr has 200 base armor. If you're using a caster frame like the Nyx you have as your avatar, its possible that you still have virtually no armor even with steel fiber.

 

My Valk's armor with a rank 7 SF is 360. If you're using a Nyx, your armor with rank 9 SF is 20.

 

I don't think that's a very good test to slap SF on a frame with nearly no base armor and say that shows armor does nothing.

[Otaiken]

Hmmm as I played without those mods my survival strategy is not to get killed in the first place rather than relying on my ability to "survive" the death. I'm happy that the Rage+QT combo god nerfed.. those arrogant "Lol, I never die" players had to be taken down a bit... especially those who bought it with platinum hahahaha oh... schadenfreude feels so good.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Agreed.

 

atm i don't see the point of equipping QT... 15 mod points for 2 health back that will slowly drains your energy over time?? 

One thing I disagree with, it's not "slow".

[OblivionNecroninja]

Looking at the video, the stagger was a bad idea.

I think it looks neat, but, unless they add a brief period of invulnerability and immunity to CC to the aftermath, the stagger needs to go.

[lautalocos]

to all the people saying that they nerfed it because PVP:

 

you are all wrong. DE has already changed things in conclave, appart from PvE, so your theories about the nerf being because PvP hold no ground.

it was nerfed because standing still taking damage and being inmortal...sorry, not inmortal, ALMOST inmortal is completely overpowered.

 

STILL, it was overnerfed. it should have been changed to having X seconds of invulnerability after reaching 0 health. it would use all of your energy, with a minimum of 100 energy

[xethier]

the easiest and most effective method of reducing the power of this mod would have been to do just that. 

reduce the amount of health % restored by 50% (maxing out at 120%)

 

This would have "reduced the effectiveness" of the mod combination. Which is what was stated in the patch notes.

What actually happened is that the "combo" is no longer that. The combination was broken.

 

The most vocal forum threads were that of PVP players raging about the combination. Doesn't matter if DE patched it out due to other reasons, the perception is that it was done for PVP reasons. There is a point at which perception is more important than reality. Public relations is an entire market devoted to just that. 

 

Everything about this "rebalance" is fail.

[Sophronius]

I'll take your word for it, but you didn't answer my question.

 

How much armor did you have? The Valkyr has 200 base armor. If you're using a caster frame like the Nyx you have as your avatar, its possible that you still have virtually no armor even with steel fiber.

 

My Valk's armor with a rank 7 SF is 360. If you're using a Nyx, your armor with rank 9 SF is 20.

 

I don't think that's a very good test to slap SF on a frame with nearly no base armor and say that shows armor does nothing.

I was using Valkyr with rank 9 SF. Valkyr's armor was 400. I did not notice a difference when tested, still a very quick death.

 

Not sure why Nyx is the current, I actually changed my avatar to Valkyr since U11 came out. But the forums never changed it, probably because I never logged out and in. Nyx was the Warframe I used as a main for many...many months. So I know how hard Warframe can be as far as being squishy goes. I tried using Absorb as a means to alleviate the problem but it only resulted in death prior to DE fixing it. Thus I ran a very long time with a 'frame that only had 1 good ability. I just got my very first Quick Thinking mod ever about 2 days ago.

 

 

I admit that after getting the mod I found myself Face-Tanking a lot. I wasn't very pleased by it, but it still helped me stick my 6th forma in to my Synapse since XP rates are also broken. I was hoping that QT would get a nerf so that it wasn't so ridiculous, but...omg.. talk about a nerf.

 

 

Sadly I do not feel interested in playing Warframe right now. I really like Valkyr, but she has zero sustain outside of being in Hysteria 100% of the time. Hysteria is not a fun ability in its current state, so I would rather not do that. I put on QT+R so that I could play Valkyr without the need of Hysteria, but now I can't do that so... Time to put down Warframe and go back to...many other options at this point.

[Llyssa]

It's not supposed to keep you alive while you wade through stuff way over your head while taking lethal damage repeatedly. That's not "quick thinking" at all.

 

It's supposed to buy you an extra chance when you get creamed unexpectedly. From the video, it keeps you from bleedout for quite a while while under direct attack, and gives you a chance to flee.

 

The complaint that "when you're being swarmed, it's worthless". Well, yeah. It's not supposed to let you play bad, it's supposed to keep you from those random surprises. You can't possibly be surprised when a swarm shows up and overwhelms you.

[Sophronius]

It's supposed to buy you an extra chance when you get creamed unexpectedly. From the video, it keeps you from bleedout for quite a while while under direct attack, and gives you a chance to flee.

In the video I was desperately trying to move, but the stagger prevented that from happening.

 

One point however....

 

 

But sir... Now that you have taken cover, you have 2hp to work with. Should your shields go down you have no health to cover you and must rely on energy that you didn't spend. This also defeats to purpose of having the mod. Why not save 15 points for something else?

 

Efficiency of QT should be dropped from 240% to 200% to "fix" it's Godmode. Quick thinking has been completely reworked. It used to upon death convert 240% of your remaining energy back in to health. Now it uses energy as health when you run out of health. This is not an "efficiency fix" it is a total rework. The mod's description does not match what it does.

 

You would be better off just going in to bleedout. At least you keep your energy when revived and have full health again. QT is useless in its current state.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Sophronius

[Empiren]

I like how people are acting like its still useful.

 

It stuns you and saps your energy, I'd rather have thiefs wit than this right now.

[ViLeDeth]

I like how people are acting like its still useful.

 

It stuns you and saps your energy, I'd rather have thiefs wit than this right now.

 

I'm definitely pretending to like it just so I don't hold my breath on DE actually making a good change to rectify this stupid move.

All it takes for them is to change it back, drop the effective % you get back to make it more dangerous when dancing with death and that's it.

 

To make it even more reasonable, just retire the mod entirely and let those who have it, keep it. It is gone forever - now a novelty item.

Edited November 28, 2013 by ViLeDeth

[KvotheTheArcane1]

It's not supposed to keep you alive while you wade through stuff way over your head while taking lethal damage repeatedly. That's not "quick thinking" at all.

 

It's supposed to buy you an extra chance when you get creamed unexpectedly. From the video, it keeps you from bleedout for quite a while while under direct attack, and gives you a chance to flee.

 

The complaint that "when you're being swarmed, it's worthless". Well, yeah. It's not supposed to let you play bad, it's supposed to keep you from those random surprises. You can't possibly be surprised when a swarm shows up and overwhelms you.

When a single grineer stunlocks you, something is probably wrong...

 

They way they nerfed it was bad. DId it need a nerf? YES, FOR THE LAST TIME, YES. It however did not need to be made worse than intruder.

[VaNki]

Well I feel kind of bad for Rage and Quick thinking.

 

 Just by last night I asked myself "Well what am I gonna do now?"  I have done fully forma the WFs I want, maxed out the mods I want. Those mods are my motivation to play Void and searching for secret rooms. Now DE just took away half of my motivation to play...

 

p/s: I own 3 combo of QT+Rage and it's kind of sad when I know DE nerfed it...

[VaNki]

Well what done is done and I think DE has predicted players reactions but they still decide to do it.

[PeterKha]

Aka, it is just a worthless mod now.

 

Just proved the thread, thanks.

How long have you exactly played this game? There are a total of about 249 mods and quite a few of them are absolutely trash and worthless from the very beginning, you're making it seem as though every other mod is useful except for this mod.

 

I honestly don't understand why everybody is QQing over it. The game doesn't revolve around QT+R because you can survive and do just fine with any other frame on any other mission because that's how I play the game. 

[KvotheTheArcane1]

How long have you exactly played this game? There are a total of about 249 mods and quite a few of them are absolutely trash and worthless from the very beginning, you're making it seem as though every other mod is useful except for this mod.

 

I honestly don't understand why everybody is QQing over it. The game doesn't revolve around QT+R because you can survive and do just fine with any other frame on any other mission because that's how I play the game. 

You're missing the point, have you tried it? They nerfed it in about the worst possible way. It's like they got together, and talked "Hey, what's the WORST way we could nerf QT?" "OH, OH I KNOW! Lets keep the stagger, but only let it restore the player to 2 hp!" "BRILLIANT!"

Edited November 29, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[LisRestall]

How long have you exactly played this game? There are a total of about 249 mods and quite a few of them are absolutely trash and worthless from the very beginning, you're making it seem as though every other mod is useful except for this mod.

 

I honestly don't understand why everybody is QQing over it. The game doesn't revolve around QT+R because you can survive and do just fine with any other frame on any other mission because that's how I play the game. 

You don't understand? Try going to high level plays w/o using your beloved Rhino, Trinity, Nova, Nyx and see if you can last long.

 

Again, to those people who doesn't understand a thing due to their LACK of comprehension or ZERO experience using QT+R, this is the most simple way to explain it.

 

QT+R combo had a bug that will keep you alive from weak damage no matter what which is YES, it's OP and broken and needs to be FIXED, no more further argument on that but another problem remains, it's the 96% immortality, YES, OP and BROKEN, so what is needed? DE breaking the synergy of the 2 mods completely and make QT a totally crappy useless mod that will keep stunlocking you until you die which is clearly opposed to "QUICK THINKING"? FFS, this is not the needed fix, obviously they just needed to lower the conversion rate of QT from IDK, maybe from 240% to 200%? or 180%? The overnerf is unnecessary as this mod is very rare and costs a D polarity and high amount of slots which forces players using it to forma their frames.

 

To the haters, yes, we like using QT+R on our rarely used favourite frames such as Saryn, Valkyr, etc because this gives us an opportunity to play on higher levels aka end-game content, sorry if we don't have fun if we're not using it, and yes, I'm sure you guys are having fun using your common Vitality and Redirection while getting protected by Trinity who is also having fun by spamming 4 (TEAM GOD MODE) for the whole run.

Edited November 29, 2013 by LisRestall

[Tenzek]

A simple fix for QT might have been to give it a cooldown period. If it saves you, it can't save you again for X seconds. This would prevent invincibility loops while allowing it to give you a chance to get away with a mistake.

[Sophronius]

I honestly don't understand why everybody is QQing over it. The game doesn't revolve around QT+R because you can survive and do just fine with any other frame on any other mission because that's how I play the game. 

I think that the thing we need to be most concerned about here is how they went about nerfing the mod. They did it in the same way we have seen many other dev's do in their respective titles. Instead of making a slight tweak, they absolutely destroy it.

 

What does this mean? Well it was in my OP. Any mod, Warframe and/or weapon at the time it is considered OP has the potential of becoming completely broken instead of tweaked.

 

Iron Skin is the only other thing that comes to mind when I think about the severity of this nerf...except I'm still not sure if that was as bad of a nerf as QT.

 

The point is that it is such a hardcore nerf that it makes me nervous about the future of Warframe. Clearly, due to stagger not being removed in this nerf/change, it was not well thought out, if even tested properly.

 

 

Side note: Armor is currently broken and there is no way to regain health as Valkyr without having another support 'frame. So... high level missions = no go.

 

Before you say I suck, I started out as Loki at the very beginning of U7 and it was absolutely difficult. I also used Nyx as my main for many months before her abilities got fixed.

Edited November 29, 2013 by Sophronius

[xethier]

i'll echo what most have said here already.

 

nerfing r+qt was needed. it was the way they went about it. (completely destroying the combination instead of "reducing the effectiveness" -- which, by the way, was the exact wording they used)

 

i do end-game content with any frame. haven't had trouble if a good group is paying attention and i'm not doing something dumb.

i don't use rage+quick thinking. (i've used it a total of 5 times 3 of which were against the stalker, and only one of those did i survive (only post u11))

I don't really care about the mod, i care about how DE decided to completely hose the mod without any regards to the players and the play-style.

[VaNki]

• Reduced effectiveness of the interaction between Rage/Quick Thinking mods to prevent indefinite immortality in all game modes.

This is a lie.

Edited November 29, 2013 by VaNki

[PeterKha]

You don't understand? Try going to high level plays w/o using your beloved Rhino, Trinity, Nova, Nyx and see if you can last long.

 

Again, to those people who doesn't understand a thing due to their LACK of comprehension or ZERO experience using QT+R, this is the most simple way to explain it.

You're joking right? I don't even play half those warframes... LOL and I'm still smashing out high level content. I see the abuse in invincibility from trinity but who gives a F***, with skill you don't need cheap skills to get through the game. I can go high level content with any frame, excal, ember, loki because frames help but not as much as weapons do and it's called playing smart not running head on attempting to kill every god damn thing in sight and becoming a bullet sponge and thinking you're invincible.

 

I've played this game for a long time and I have unlocked most of content and I've done high level content, endless defence and survival for long periods with breeze.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

You're joking right? I don't even play half those warframes... LOL and I'm still smashing out high level content. I see the abuse in invincibility from trinity but who gives a F***, with skill you don't need cheap skills to get through the game. I can go high level content with any frame, excal, ember, loki because frames help but not as much as weapons do and it's called playing smart not running head on attempting to kill every god damn thing in sight and becoming a bullet sponge and thinking you're invincible.

 

I've played this game for a long time and I have unlocked most of content and I've done high level content, endless defence and survival for long periods with breeze.

I love "L2P n00b" attitude you have, because it looks silly. long story short (to cut out the arguing about who does and does not use what and epeen showing), QT was over nerfed, they didn't lower the effectiveness, they removed it.