DetectiveUseless Posted April 15 Posted April 15 The Argonak is the sort of weapon I want to like but can't. I like the idea of a weapon that can switch between an automatic status-spreader and a semi-auto crit machine, but this weapon just isn't good at all. Its damage is pitiful and neither mode is worth using. On the one hand, the semi-auto mode doesn't provide any increase in base damage and the crit-rate is average. On the other hand, the auto mode has an abysmal crit rate and fire rate for only an average status chance. If you like the idea of applying status with one mode and headshots in another, the Stahlta and Kuva Quartakk are far better options. Even if you don't have access to those two alternatives, the Argonak is so bad at its job that you may as well just use the Braton. The signature highlighting might as well be flavor text for how often it comes up. The best part about it is probably the armor strip the amalgam augment mod gives to daggers, but if you're running a gimped primary to boost your melee by a bit, you might as well run the Rauta for that role instead. I would propose a significant buff to all of its stats, but that would run the risk of being too good in the early game. Instead, I propose giving it an Incarnon-like upgrade. Not an Incarnon Genesis, as it already has an alt-fire and thus wouldn't be eligible for one, but instead an item that provides three similar evolution tiers. The first tier would obviously be a damage buff, but the second and third tiers should be geared towards buffing its other stats like crit/status and fire rate. Such an addition would make the Argonak a lot more relevant and flexible in its use. 2
LapuLapo Posted April 15 Posted April 15 I feel like the more straightforward buff would be "make Kuva Argonak exist" rather than adding something that's totally not an Incarnon Genesis so it's stats can be buffed. Alternatively, I guess Baro could show up with Argonak Wraith, or something like that. Hypothetically. 6
DetectiveUseless Posted April 15 Author Posted April 15 2 minutes ago, LapuLapo said: I feel like the more straightforward buff would be "make Kuva Argonak exist" rather than adding something that's totally not an Incarnon Genesis so it's stats can be buffed.. I got the idea of the "Not-ig evolution tiers" before I realized the Argonak was bad. I wanted something to provide buffs to weapons that couldn't receive Incarnon Genesis due to already having alt-fires, such as the Corinth, Penta, and sniper rifles. I feel they provide more interesting weapon customization than just the mod system alone. 1
RLanzinger Posted April 15 Posted April 15 The signature highlighting's feature should be an exilus MODS : Argonak's Sight the weapon skins is meuh.. but the global Semi+Crit to Auto-Status make it a good All-rounder. Zenith's is probably his Tenno counterpart... available at 100, 300, 500 daily tribute
LapuLapo Posted April 15 Posted April 15 yeah i can see that that would be definitely desirable on its own merits (my poor spearguns!) but I have trouble seeing DE integrate it with the game in general. If it's not part of the Incarnon system where is it from? what's it gated behind? why these specific weapons, etc. On a mechanical balance level it seems pretty reasonable but idk how you signpost that these buffs are available and when to look for them. Like would they be...dojo research? some special side-shop at Cavalero that explains they're different? syndicates? there's definitely places to put them but idk if there's a good way to do it.
Tiltskillet Posted April 15 Posted April 15 I will never turn down an Argonak buff, but in terms of dps it's roughly in the right place for an MR7 single target rifle. For me it's main problem is it feels bad in both modes, having RoF I can't use effectively and not enough punch in semi-auto, and having too small a magazine and too long a reload to use in full-auto. It really could have used something like the Stradavar Prime formula, where the weapon's mag/reload/RoF was balanced better around full auto, and then semi-auto used more ammo per shot. But seven years after its release, a restructure seems implausible. My main hope is for a higher MR variant with significant improvements. 2
Vaml77 Posted April 19 Posted April 19 I consider it the sexiest weapon visually speaking... But the damage is as if she were a very ugly woman hahahaha 2
Pakaku Posted April 19 Posted April 19 Could be a good Kuva candidate. Otherwise, unless you love the highlighting gimmick, there are better alternatives like the Kuva Hind, Tiberon Prime, Stradavar Prime... On 2024-04-15 at 10:06 AM, DetectiveUseless said: Not an Incarnon Genesis, as it already has an alt-fire and thus wouldn't be eligible for one It's such a ridiculous restriction. They could move the transform button to something like a hold-reload, and open up way more weak weapons to the potential for an adapter. 2
Redrigoth Posted April 23 Posted April 23 On 2024-04-15 at 11:06 AM, DetectiveUseless said: The Argonak is the sort of weapon I want to like but can't. I like the idea of a weapon that can switch between an automatic status-spreader and a semi-auto crit machine, but this weapon just isn't good at all. Its damage is pitiful and neither mode is worth using. On the one hand, the semi-auto mode doesn't provide any increase in base damage and the crit-rate is average. On the other hand, the auto mode has an abysmal crit rate and fire rate for only an average status chance. If you like the idea of applying status with one mode and headshots in another, the Stahlta and Kuva Quartakk are far better options. Even if you don't have access to those two alternatives, the Argonak is so bad at its job that you may as well just use the Braton. The signature highlighting might as well be flavor text for how often it comes up. The best part about it is probably the armor strip the amalgam augment mod gives to daggers, but if you're running a gimped primary to boost your melee by a bit, you might as well run the Rauta for that role instead. I would propose a significant buff to all of its stats, but that would run the risk of being too good in the early game. Instead, I propose giving it an Incarnon-like upgrade. Not an Incarnon Genesis, as it already has an alt-fire and thus wouldn't be eligible for one, but instead an item that provides three similar evolution tiers. The first tier would obviously be a damage buff, but the second and third tiers should be geared towards buffing its other stats like crit/status and fire rate. Such an addition would make the Argonak a lot more relevant and flexible in its use. support this post: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1381871-incarnon-acrid-argonak-stug-convectrix-ripkas-lecta-suggestion/#comment-12957427
(XBOX)xSeeMyEvilx Posted August 24 Posted August 24 Yeah it seems no matter what I do with it. It struggles. I really like the weapon in look an design. But geez. It's a good example of jack of all trades. And master of none. I could get a perfect riven an it still be pretty meh.as I have a decent one. Testing it at steal path 225 it's best results is relaying on slashs. An it feels really bad. An the way to boost it more feel uncomfortable to replay on frame an or other way to help it. It held back by it damage split with impact. Impacting it effectiveness. Kind of forces hunters munitions. It's magazine. Strange clip amount. It should be higher an faster fire rate. Semi should have it's exclusive mod built in as passive. An I don't think this will do much for it. 1
Tankzilla Posted August 30 Posted August 30 Agreed. I think a lot of the Chem lab weapons are underutilized 2
DeeDeeLyla Posted October 19 Posted October 19 (edited) Some rambling thoughts after recent updates made things a LOT better for a LOT of things (but not quite enough, including this, more below) Blast not long ago got turned into one of the single best status effects in the game currently (from the abysmal mess it had been before), especially for things that can stack it quickly enough & have enough damage to make it respectable; as you can tell, neither firing mode of Argonak does enough for it to even come close to competing w/ the existing meta primaries, although I'm doing my darndest to make it work anyway because I happen to like this so much now that I even ditched my Synoid Simulor for it ("WHOAAA," right??? Well...) So hear me out: remember when they added new Kuva stuff to the Lich pool when Sisters of Parvos first arrived? Well now they have THE perfect opportunity to do that again since we are getting new adversaries for the Infested when Warframe: 1999 arrives, & Kuva Argonak is in my mind THE perfect candidate for that They can make whatever neat flavor text for the description (I'd like to think Worm Queen has it made to commemorate the Elder Queen, maybe) but aside from that, what about stats? Well guess what, all that a Kuva Argonak ACTUALLY needs: -> Merging the best of both firing modes into ONE firing mode & having said firing mode be... SEMI ("WHAAAT?!?!" you may be asking; well we have an accessibility option now to make Semi-firing weapons work exactly like Auto-firing weapons, in fact I use it for Argonak's semi mode right meow & I don't even bother with the current auto-firing mode... IN FACT IT'S A NUISANCE TO ME BECAUSE I'LL ACCIDENTALLY SWITCH TO IT, GO "ARRRGH!!! WHY?! RAAAHHH!!!" & THEN HAVE TO SWITCH BACK TO SEMI EVERY SINGLE TIME IT HAPPENS... & despite me being an Arcane Arachne enthusiast now, WHO ALSO DESPISES LEDGE-GRABS BECAUSE OF THAT & wishes ledge-grabs were added to the activation conditions, or maybe better yet if an option was made to toggle those off -- ALONG WITH ONE FOR MELEE SLAMS WHEN WE WANT TO AIR MELEE INSTEAD -- if not getting rid of ledge-grabs entirely (Drifter would sure be happy for that too) I also think those who like the recently added Semi-Cannonade mods should be able to equip those on any Semi they'd like to! -> So by "best of both worlds" I mean: the crit chance & crit damage of the semi merged w/ the fire rate & status chance of the auto, again into one SEMI mode (see why above, or if you don't like essay reading & can pick up on why, then maybe you already know) -> Finally, PERHAPS MOST IMPORTANTLY FOR THE STATS, is some added base punch-through even if that's only 1-2 meters: why? It can be INFURIATING for something to be highlighted behind a wall, then you go to shoot it annnnnnd... even w/ the Amalgam unique mod & Primed Shred & maybe punch-through on a riven (hey I happen to like my +heat +cold +critical-damage riven, which makes room for a bunch of other stuff, bite me!), it's currently possible to STILL not have enough Punch-Through & finding your hitscan bullets going NOPE against a wall or whatever decides to ruin someone's day anyway (SOME *DOORS* LAUGH AT EVERYONE BY THE WAY, YOU'D THINK W/ THEM BEING PAPER-THIN THAT WOULDN'T BE THE CASE) -> TL;DR: Kuva Argonak w/ ONE firing mode (PREFERABLY SEMI) having all its best stats into that one, w/ some base punch-through & then I swear to void it can probably start competing vs. TORID even if they were to add a Coda version of the latter for whatever reasons... ANYWAY I 100% AGREE, ALSO: MORE OPTIONS IN THE "META" IS A GOOD THING, ACTUALLY hence why I switched from Titania Prime to Jade ("<GASP>"!!!) EDIT: Since I anticipated some muckle-chuck trolls (no, NOT the Homestuck variety) or whatever -- to whom I'd be responding w/ apt Homelander GIFs -- would more than happily point out: "Y r U uSiNg JaDe'S 3 WhEn YoU hAvE ArGoNaK & aMaLgAm" (or vice-versa) WELL GOOD QUESTION! That's because, yes, there ARE actually some enemies where JADE'S 3 DOESN'T STRIP THEIR ARMOR... BUUUUUUT THE AMALGAM UNIQUE MOD W/ DAGGER DOES (or vice-versa) oh & by the way it's also ANOTHER reason why I love Ceramic Dagger Incarnon & by extension ANOTHER reason why I love Argonak... even w/ all that, I'm STILL saying Kuva Argonak needs to be a thing, for reasons I have hopefully extensively gone into above... cheers!!! EDIT 2: My short-term memory be damned, I just now remembered that my 34th birthday was a day or two ago, timezones also be damned... so yes this would be THE perfect late gift from Digital Extremes Edited November 1 by DeeDeeLyla 1
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