is this finally the time to get rid of crafting time?

[SmokinDice]

Hey "new" DE,

It is once again a moment in time where yet another new creator came in and played your game. I was looking through my starting page on Ytube and found this guy called legendary drops.

He made a great video about warframe and had a really great time with it, as expected, but the moment he found out that he has been playing for 20 hours and then to get a new warframe, even after he happiliy farmed for all the materials and blueprints, he needed to wait for 12+72 hours JUST to play a new frame he instantly was disheartened and understandibly so.

As a new player you want to unlock new things, test stuff out, try everything and unlock everything.

There is content in this game to keep you happy for LITERAL thousands of hours.. there really is NO NEED to timegate players anymore with these uneccessary things that are just not up to current days standards of warframe. To be honest this was always the worst thing about the game, and ESPECIALLY for the purpose of getting new players into the game.

 

I mean the idea is kinda cute, that things need to be build, but then change it so it is just a cute vanity thing that takes maybe 30 seconds, 1 minute, or hell let the warframe be build for 10 minutes so the player maybe stays around for another hour ingame.

 

But, literally EVERY SINGLE FRIEND I tried to bring into the game, quit the moment he had to wait for 72 or even just 24 hours. we live in a fastpace world now, and a new player, playing your game for a day, and then be told, AH maybe skip the next day, or better yet skip the next three days is just a dealbreaker and I can understand why.

If I build a new cool thing, I want to play with it, if I enjoy the game I want to keep playing and I want to use my new toys, if you make me wait for no reason I might log off and never log back in, which is exactly what all of my friends did, or others might try to keep playing for another day while waiting and just get bored because they want new things to try out but cant have any..

So please, for the sake of the games future, please change this ancient system and let new players enjoy the game.

Let time gating players be a thing of the past

 

have a nice weekend everyone.

Edited April 20 by SmokinDice

[Zakkhar]

4 hours ago, SmokinDice said:

There is content in this game to keep you happy for LITERAL thousands of hours.. there really is NO NEED to timegate players anymore with these uneccessary things that are just not up to current days standards of warframe. To be honest this was always the worst thing about the game, and ESPECIALLY for the purpose of getting new players into the game.

It is necesary so that people do not binge play warframe in one go. It is not healthy for them and not profitable for the developer.

4 hours ago, SmokinDice said:

If I build a new cool thing, I want to play with it, if I enjoy the game I want to keep playing and I want to use my new toys, if you make me wait for no reason I might log off and never log back in, which is exactly what all of my friends did, or others might try to keep playing for another day while waiting and just get bored because they want new things to try out but cant have any..

You may do that. But it can always build the anticipation and maybe have you use the plat to shorten the crafting time (or just buy it straight from the market prebuilt with a slot and potato to match). If you do not have a glimpse of patience, this is not a game for you. It is best you realise this at the start of your journey, so both parties do not waste their resources.

[SmokinDice]

7 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

It is necesary so that people do not binge play warframe in one go. It is not healthy for them and not profitable for the developer.

you are already time gated by the 24 hour wait between every mastery rank challange, which already happens frequently in the beginning and already time gates you for at least a week early on.

you are then also time gated by a daily cap of standing you can earn per faction, which is where most of the progress in game is made nowadays anyway, which is yet another time gate AND your standing cap is even lower on lower mastery rank.
 

So there already IS enough times you have to wait to play the game, and waiting is NEVER fun and it does not build anticipation, not nowadays, people just move on, and thats just the reality.

[kadlis12]

Crafting times? Honestly, I can respect them. A thing requires some time to be made, I can imagine that.

But there are other truly artificial gatings. Like Deimos. Oh, so you picked up 8k pieces of some mutated goo? Good. Keep visiting Farher for the rest of your life and you might be lucky to sell 6-30 of those for a token once or twice per day. If you manage to collect 10 Father's tokens, keep visiting Grandmother - and eventually, she will be in the mood to change those into one Grandmother's token. For 50 of those, you can have one of six pictures. ...that takes forever for no reason whatsoever - and the gameplay is a loading screen.

Also, I somehow am irritated that a spacefaring civilization that invented wireless communication requires a personal visit for everything. And no, you can't even chain those visits, because from many places you have to return to the orbiter first. The crown then takes trading, which is enabled, but somehow not supported. If you want to trade, you have to find a trading partner. That means either staring for hours at a specialized screen in a specialized area - or going outside the game and literally breaking the TOS, because I have no idea what is an unfair advantage if not avoiding pointless staring at a specialized screen in a specialized area. Then, you both have to meet in another specialized area and pay a special fee. God, if it was at least a delivery fee, but no, you really had to personally meet to pick up the item. In a spacefaring civilization.

Alright, alright, I am calm again. So, in general, I do not mind obstacles if there is a point in it. Some physical limit or a background lore that justifies that. That condition is fulfilled for building things.

 

[kyori]

Steve once told players to go play other games for similar situations. At the time the 1st spiderman was hyped, so Steve told players to go play it.

Also, everything in the game except cosmetics are free, that's in exchange for your time, to grind, to wait.

[Joylesstuna]

It's a predatory practice and probably a big part of DE's financial gains. I don't expect to go anytime soon.

[TennoPain]

41 minutes ago, Joylesstuna said:

It's a predatory practice and probably a big part of DE's financial gains. I don't expect to go anytime soon.

It is not game is free and we are used to it .. New players aready bypass everything and we need to deal with low MRs in Steel path enough is enough. DE have to live from something.

[Oggyswe]

Personally i enjoyed it as it gives you something to look forward to when i were new. 

 

And now when i got around 90% i dont think about it anymore since i got other things to do in and out of the game.

 

Its also a great practice for your patiences and planing. And since its free to play and still loot box and casino free its not that big a hurdle. Or shouldent be atleast.

[Joezone619]

No, the craft times serve important pacing and platinum purposes.

[SmokinDice]

53 minutes ago, Oggyswe said:

Personally i enjoyed it as it gives you something to look forward to when i were new. 

 

And now when i got around 90% i dont think about it anymore since i got other things to do in and out of the game.

 

Its also a great practice for your patiences and planing. And since its free to play and still loot box and casino free its not that big a hurdle. Or shouldent be atleast.

I think this is very easy for us to say, ofcourse we dont mind, as you said we basically have everything and have other stuff to do, but a new player doesn't.

 

lets go with an absolutly stupid and absurd example. AFK journey. I downloaded it just because there was so much commercials for it even from youtubers I like, so I gave it a try.

I played it, I had a lot of fun, it was a cool game, I got some characters from one tribe and had fun with them, so on day 3 I wanted to try some other characters and tribes, since I already became kinda stale, BUT to get them for free I basically had to wait 4  days until day 7, because I couldn't get enough characters from that other tribe and only would get one on day 7.

so what did I do? I quit and never opened the game again, why would I wait for 4 or 3 days just to keep playing with what I want. Ofcourse if I already had 6 copies of each character I wouldn't mind, but when you COULD already have the thing you want, but for some predatory unneeded reason you cant have it, thats just a bad game in your mind.

And while ofcourse afk journey a universe apart in terms of predatory gamba bullsh*t, for a new player it still can feel the same when they first want to build a cool new weapon or frame in warframe.

and I am TRULY sad that I cant get any of my friends to play this game for this single reason. I literally had 8 guys seperatley quit on the game because 3 days to capture an audience while they have nothing new exciting to do is just a stupid idea.. more maps and missions is cool and all, but when you are forced to play the same guy for your first 4 days (which are some of the most exciting when youre new) you just lose interest in 2024.

Edited April 20 by SmokinDice

[PollexMessier]

This is one of the few micro-transaction-y parts of the game I really didn't mind.

One of the more tame things DE does to try to get players to spend platinum.

I'm far more frustrated with slots. I think players should start out with AT LEAST 5 warframe slots, and an equivilant amount of each other type of slot. 25 weapon (5 for each category of weapon, including archweapons cus they changed those to just use weapons slots apparently), 5 vehicle, 10 companion, exct.

And the game should maybe inform you that they exist before you actually run out of them so you're not blindsided.

The timer I can deal with. Grinding something out and waiting for the timer only to get hit with a paywall to use the thing is far worse. Now imagine that you actually paid to skip the timer before knowing slots existed.

I also think the classic color palate only giving you access to the middle column and need to pay platinum for the rest is just a bit ridiculous at this point. It's so obviously formulated to frustrate players with a borderline unusable set of colors to start with. And it's just unnecessary given how many color palates their are in the game and how many colors the full classic palate is missing that would still prompt players to buy another one or 3. Making it something like a 1,000,000 credit purchase instead, I think would be a lot smarter. It would encourage players that would have otherwise just quit on the spot over that to actually play through a fair bit of the game and learn how much stuff the game actually lets you earn.

The timers just ask you for patience. I can handle patience.

[Oggyswe]

46 minutes ago, SmokinDice said:

I think this is very easy for us to say, ofcourse we dont mind, as you said we basically have everything and have other stuff to do, but a new player doesn't.

 

lets go with an absolutly stupid and absurd example. AFK journey. I downloaded it just because there was so much commercials for it even from youtubers I like, so I gave it a try.

I played it, I had a lot of fun, it was a cool game, I got some characters from one tribe and had fun with them, so on day 3 I wanted to try some other characters and tribes, since I already became kinda stale, BUT to get them for free I basically had to wait 4  days until day 7, because I couldn't get enough characters from that other tribe and only would get one on day 7.

so what did I do? I quit and never opened the game again, why would I wait for 4 or 3 days just to keep playing with what I want. Ofcourse if I already had 6 copies of each character I wouldn't mind, but when you COULD already have the thing you want, but for some predatory unneeded reason you cant have it, thats just a bad game in your mind.

And while ofcourse afk journey a universe apart in terms of predatory gamba bullsh*t, for a new player it still can feel the same when they first want to build a cool new weapon or frame in warframe.

and I am TRULY sad that I cant get any of my friends to play this game for this single reason. I literally had 8 guys seperatley quit on the game because 3 days to capture an audience while they have nothing new exciting to do is just a stupid idea.. more maps and missions is cool and all, but when you are forced to play the same guy for your first 4 days (which are some of the most exciting when youre new) you just lose interest in 2024.

Its easy for me to say because i also did get everything this way. 

I only bought nova and oberon bundles everything else i farmed.

 

And if something is fun patiences shouldent be to hard. Its like the marshmellow test wait abit now for a better reward later

[-MElHiOR-]

If you don`t want to wait... Just skip timer via plats. Thats all, man.

I`m from those times where warframe parts dropped from bosses as resources and ammo, and resurrections were limited to 4 per day for each individual warframe. So... Either you weit, or skip the build timer with platinum. Or leave the game. That`s an option too.

[LittleLeoniePrime]

3 hours ago, Oggyswe said:

loot box and casino free

looks at rives...

[LittleLeoniePrime]

2 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

I'm far more frustrated with slots. I think players should start out with AT LEAST 5 warframe slots, and an equivilant amount of each other type of slot. 25 weapon (5 for each category of weapon, including archweapons cus they changed those to just use weapons slots apparently), 5 vehicle, 10 companion, exct.

And the game should maybe inform you that they exist before you actually run out of them so you're not blindsided.

The timer I can deal with. Grinding something out and waiting for the timer only to get hit with a paywall to use the thing is far worse. Now imagine that you actually paid to skip the timer before knowing slots existed.

+100 on this holy S#&$, the first thing i tell literally everyone i've ever introduced to warframe over the year is to spend their 50 starter plat on slots and even then I tend to pay more for them because 50p is only enough for 1 warframe slot and 2x2 weapon slots. That's by far not enough to even reach mr5 - which you need to clear earth in it's entirety...

[SmokinDice]

2 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

This is one of the few micro-transaction-y parts of the game I really didn't mind.

One of the more tame things DE does to try to get players to spend platinum.

really? wow okay, that is so suprising for me to hear that everyone is just okay with this. Im not trying to argue here, it is just that I have a completely diffrent view on this, maybe because I am previously damaged by the fact that this was the sole reason ever people quit on the game in my bubble.

I mean, now that you mention it,  the first color set could 100% be free (I even never bought it lol), and slot really is another point I never thought of.. but you know why? because my friends never got to this issue in the first place since they never even built their second warframe to begin with. xd

And I myself have enough plat from playing that I always just buy them and never game them a second thought, but it is true that this is probably another big issue.

[SmokinDice]

55 minutes ago, -MElHiOR- said:

Or leave the game. That`s an option too.

but do you want more people to leave? or more people to stay?

you can leave any game at any point, thats true. But when there is a single dealbreaker obviously sitting in the face of SO many players and VERY OFTEN the first big red flag a player encounters and several youtubers and 8 of my friends alone quit because of this, I think there is room to improve the game here.

and this is JUST my friends, without this issue they had 8 times more income from my group, what about dozens of other groups were a single person cant get more people into the game because of this restriction..

 

maybe another solution is the implementation of a "foundry booster" something that just has charges, which all the whales can have filled up all the time to instantly build stuff, and you can just buy booster charges for that 50 plat.. and then give new players starting out already 10 charges for free so that they can built and experiment in their first 3 days.

 

 

to give another example, I regularly play the path of exile leagues, and I know the game is structured totally diffrent, but I often play that game for just a week, maybe two, or sometimes even just three days.. just imagine the people at GGG say, yeah you can make a new character for your league, but you have to wait 3 days... people would just quit that game yet again. xd

my point is, creating builds, creativity, testing out new cool gear IS THE POINT of the game, and when you are limitied to a single frame in your first 3 to 4 days it is just SUCH a disapointment.. Im a grindy guy and I can stand waiting, but many people just aren't. and if you want them to leave in their first 3 days of playing and dont even want them to experience the CORE drive of the game and make them wait for it, I think this is just devastating for a game..

(play gta and start with a honda civic, but to built a key for another car, it takes three days and you cant rob a car on the street and are stuck to your one car. would you play that?)

 

My issue here is the REAL day 1-3 gaming experience.. and I bet alot of people are lost here, and MANY MANY of them actually liked the game and are just turned of by any time gating they approach on their first or second day of playing. you really only have several minutes or maybe an hour to catch a customer, and some that stay may still be on the fence, and such a simingly minor detail as this could just swing their needle down to "nope, not dealing with this".

Edited April 20 by SmokinDice

[SmokinDice]

31 minutes ago, LittleLeoniePrime said:

+100 on this holy S#&$, the first thing i tell literally everyone i've ever introduced to warframe over the year is to spend their 50 starter plat on slots and even then I tend to pay more for them because 50p is only enough for 1 warframe slot and 2x2 weapon slots. That's by far not enough to even reach mr5 - which you need to clear earth in it's entirety...

that is an issue I wasn't even aware of.. I might need to start a fresh account at some point and try this out. but shouldn't you at the start maybe just have 1 slot for a weapon you might get and like, and have another just to level up stuff and immediatly sell since it is trash anyway? like all the bratons and latos you all just buy for credits anyway? or just sell everything ever untill you get the nataruuk? isn't that realtively early to get now?
but for warframe slots I definitly agree that you should buy them.

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Skiiiiiiip. Bait thread.

DE's entire revenue spawns from all sorts of intentional gating. Time is one of them.

[PollexMessier]

4 hours ago, SmokinDice said:

really? wow okay, that is so suprising for me to hear that everyone is just okay with this. Im not trying to argue here, it is just that I have a completely diffrent view on this, maybe because I am previously damaged by the fact that this was the sole reason ever people quit on the game in my bubble.

Maybe it's just cus I knew about the crafting times before I started playing. But it really doesn't feel that bad. Especially compared to other mmos.

Elder Scrolls Online has, or at least had at one point, several month long timers to research weapon and armor... augments? I forgot what they were called. It was insanely ridiculous.

Black Desert has a god damn mobile-game esque energy system that gets spent by: Collecting resources, Increasing reputation with individual npcs, completing quest objectives, Reading books for lore, and probably several other incredibly stupid things, that you have to wait a... day? (it's been a while since I played it) for it to fill back up. Or lay in a bed and afk for 5 hours, if a network hiccup doesn't kick you out of the bed because the game can't handle your internet stuttering for 2 millionths of a second, despite 75% of the game's progression being overnight afk activities.

I think the only mmo I've played that didn't have some sort of horrendously worse time gating system than warframe is probably Destiny 2. And I despise that game with a burning passion for several other reasons. Namely the multiple ways the game just outright erases your progress every few months, and tries to pretend like it's not doing it by raising a little number labled "power" that does basically nothing.

If you're use to single player games, smaller peer-to-peer games, or pure pvp games which tend to have substantially less content in them, the timers do look really bad. But if you're familiar with other MMOS they look like Jesus descended from heaven to personally oversee the development of the system.

I usually hate when people use this as an excuse for horrifically awful systems in games. But, the devs have to make money somehow. And cosmetic and grind-skip microtransactions can only carry a large live-service game like this so far. Compared to the monetization of similar games, the timers are very, very tame.

The one that annoys me is the mastery timer. The one that shows up if you fail a mastery test (or succeed even, if you somehow manage to have two mastery rank-ups in one day) That thing just has absolutely no reason to exist.

Edited April 21 by PollexMessier

[quxier]

10 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

10 hours ago, SmokinDice said:

There is content in this game to keep you happy for LITERAL thousands of hours.. there really is NO NEED to timegate players anymore with these uneccessary things that are just not up to current days standards of warframe. To be honest this was always the worst thing about the game, and ESPECIALLY for the purpose of getting new players into the game.

It is necesary so that people do not binge play warframe in one go. It is not healthy for them and not profitable for the developer.

Yes, because creating habit that makes you check game even you don't want to play is very healthy.

7 hours ago, SmokinDice said:

 

and I am TRULY sad that I cant get any of my friends to play this game for this single reason. I literally had 8 guys seperatley quit on the game because 3 days to capture an audience while they have nothing new exciting to do is just a stupid idea.. more maps and missions is cool and all, but when you are forced to play the same guy for your first 4 days (which are some of the most exciting when youre new) you just lose interest in 2024.

How about Duviri? It's far from perfect but it lets you farm frame (and its augments!) and try different gear that you don't own.

4 hours ago, LittleLeoniePrime said:

8 hours ago, Oggyswe said:

loot box and casino free

looks at rives...

+1

*DE removing Fur lottery*: we can do better

*DE letting other lottery stays intact*: can't touch this

4 hours ago, SmokinDice said:

4 hours ago, LittleLeoniePrime said:

+100 on this holy S#&$, the first thing i tell literally everyone i've ever introduced to warframe over the year is to spend their 50 starter plat on slots and even then I tend to pay more for them because 50p is only enough for 1 warframe slot and 2x2 weapon slots. That's by far not enough to even reach mr5 - which you need to clear earth in it's entirety...

that is an issue I wasn't even aware of.. I might need to start a fresh account at some point and try this out. but shouldn't you at the start maybe just have 1 slot for a weapon you might get and like, and have another just to level up stuff and immediatly sell since it is trash anyway? like all the bratons and latos you all just buy for credits anyway? or just sell everything ever untill you get the nataruuk? isn't that realtively early to get now?
but for warframe slots I definitly agree that you should buy them.

Yes:

Quote

From the start you have slots for 2 Warframes, 8 weapons (primary, secondary and melee), 8 Sentinels or their weapons and 2 Kubrows.

https://support.warframe.com/hc/en-us/articles/203733700-Foundry-Crafting-FAQ

Still, at the beginning you don't know what is good and bad. Selling your weapons feels SOOOO bad.

 

[(PSN)rexis12]

The issue with the Craft Timers will always be the fact that, for us we don't care due to the increasing amount of other things to grind as well as other things to do that help pass the time, newer players don't have that and and that can turn new players away and hurt the game as a whole. 

Because the issue of Craft Time not only comes from the repeated runs of the boss, which can be hard for new players, but also the resource grinding and the wait time. Demanding quite a lot for what is basically another character that in other games you just get from completing missions.

Rhino you get so early while you have NOTHING to do besides going through the game and nothing to  grind for, and not staying result in players not know if that the time passes while you manage other game resources like Syndicates and Bounties and Relics and Other Crafting items.

Personally while I am fine-ish with the Craft Time it's still a bad implementation that makes War frame reek as a predatory game with P2W mechanics, despite not being so.

Doesn't even make sense for it tbh, why gate the time players would want to:

1. Play this new game that you want then to stay with for a long time

2. Play this new Frame and keep the older players playing for the health of the game. 

Hell I'd even settle for the timers to be at max, one day, because there's no reason to have a new character be behind a fuccking THREE DAY WAIT, and that's not getting into the fact that the MANDATORY NECRAMECH for progression, is also behind a three days wait. 

[Joylesstuna]

I'm honestly surprised how many people have been conditioned to think it's ok. Many scummy f2p mobile games still use it and it's one of the few incredibly predatory things still in warframe.

[Mr.Holyroller]

I wouldnt want the craft time to be removed, but they need a walkthrough to crafting that informs you that crafting is core to the game and you should try to always have multiple things crafting

[Oggyswe]

8 hours ago, LittleLeoniePrime said:

looks at rives...

Rivens do not cost plat. You can get the best one plat free. While as someone mentioned above the kubrow fur thing costed exclusivly plat.

Rivens use rng yes but you do not need real money

 

And saying player trading isent a good argument since you can trade with other things then plat. And also way to much plat since its not controlled by the devs. 

 

Relics are like loot boxes but you do not need to buy them for plat. You can but since most players drown in relics who actually buys them?