Kuva Sobek should not be allowed to use Acid Shells

[ToastyGrimlock98]

It was decided that since Kuva Hek was already better than regular Hek that it shouldn’t be allowed to use the Hek’s augment mod Scattered Justice.

This logic should be maintained with Kuva Sobek should not be allowed to use Acid Shells as it will most likely already be far stronger than regular Sobek and therefor shouldn’t have access to an augment that grants it more damage.

[quxier]

no

[Rathalio]

No.

The Hek might be a special case although it doesn't justify not allowing fun for other weapons. And generally most of weapon augments work on every variant so Acid shell should work. Also Sobek without this augment will certainly be pretty underwhelming, shotguns are overall kinda weak in the meta and it's also single target weapon with a small magazine and high reload time. Anyways it wouldn't make sense because Fomorian Accelerant & Nightwatch Napalm work for the Drakgoon kuva and the Orgris kuva, and it's good as is.

[BowserNC]

no

[Gryzbi]

Hu ? i don't think the mods you're talking about have something in common, one is a syndicate augment, the other is looted on Keela to boost some Grineer weapons. 

The Kuva Drakgoon and Kuva Ogris can use there Keela augment.... so why not the Sobek ? 

And you said the Sobek will be far stronger ? any proof ? Do you have any stat to show us ? I'll be very curious and it will be nice to share to the community ^^

 

Edited April 26 by Gryzbi

[ToastyGrimlock98]

22 minutes ago, Rathalio said:

No.

The Hek might be a special case although it doesn't justify not allowing fun for other weapons. And generally most of weapon augments work on every variant so Acid shell should work. Also Sobek without this augment will certainly be pretty underwhelming, shotguns are overall kinda weak in the meta and it's also single target weapon with a small magazine and high reload time. Anyways it wouldn't make sense because Fomorian Accelerant & Nightwatch Napalm work for the Drakgoon kuva and the Orgris kuva, and it's good as is.

Sounds like an oversight on DE’s part. They should make Fomorian Accelerant and Nightwatch napalm unusable on Kuva Drakgoon and Orgris.

or just make Scattered Justice usable on Kuva Hek.

[Tiltskillet]

lol

[LittleLeoniePrime]

Since when are we asking for preemptive nerfs?

[ToastyGrimlock98]

24 minutes ago, Gryzbi said:

Hu ? i don't think the mods you're talking about have something in common, one is a syndicate augment, the other is looted on Keela to boost some Grineer weapons. 

The Kuva Drakgoon and Kuva Ogris can use there Keela augment.... so why not the Sobek ? 

And you said the Sobek will be far stronger ? any proof ? Do you have any stat to show us ? I'll be very curious and it will be nice to share to the community ^^

 

They have plenty in common. They’re augment mods. They make the guns better. What more do you need?

By DE’s own logic if the upgrade gun is better than the base gun it just shouldn’t have access to the augment. Especially if it’s a Kuva variant.

3 minutes ago, LittleLeoniePrime said:

Since when are we asking for preemptive nerfs?

I’m just asking DE to be consistent.

[16Bitman]

Augments for Tetra and Detron work on their Tenet versions too.

[Mr.Holyroller]

1 hour ago, ToastyGrimlock98 said:

It was decided that since Kuva Hek was already better than regular Hek that it shouldn’t be allowed to use the Hek’s augment mod Scattered Justice.

This logic should be maintained with Kuva Sobek should not be allowed to use Acid Shells as it will most likely already be far stronger than regular Sobek and therefor shouldn’t have access to an augment that grants it more damage.

Kuva sobek is DOA without acid shells.
No reason to use it over the strun or boar prime incarnon genesis as far as shotguns go.

I think the main reason kuva hek doesnt have shattered justice is because you can shoot all 4 shots in one go as a feature of the kuva variant which is basically a multiplicative multishot increase

For them to not have acid shells on the kuva sobek it would need something special about it that makes acid shells either built-in or irrelevant
 

Edited April 26 by Mr.Holyroller

[JustinJustinJustinJustin]

Lol no 

 

 

Stop asking for something to be nerfed before we can even use it 

[Numerounius]

What needs to happen is to make scattered justice work with Kuva Hek. Not make it the standard.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

This sort of feels more like a sarcastic jab, than sincere, so I apologise in advance for misinterpreting if thats the case, 

If you are actually sincerely asking DE to just be consistent... well the main problem with that, is that most things in reality, and thus in games, are combinations of differences and similarities. When you might ask for consistency, you are usually actually just asking for a specific type of consistency that you may subjectively find more relevant or appealing (well that and objectively depending on a criteria applied). 

For example, the Hek and Kuva Hek have a difference. You can use an alt fire with the Kuva Hek, you can't do that with the regular Hek. Vaykor Hek already has its own Syndicate attribute. Scattered Justice as a Mod/Augment also has different properties to other weapons Mods/Augments. As there are also differences in the weapons themselves. Now its totally totally reasonable, to desire some sort of consistency, and obviously discern between different types and sets of consistencies (like acknowledging that guns will vary but still desiring that a pattern remain constant with say application of mods/augments) but... people should still be able to acknowledge and understand that say... the actual specific interaction with an Augment/Mod on a variable like an Alt Fire, may result in unintended consequences. 

So lets say you hypothetically had to pick one? Either have the Kuva Hek work with Scattered Justice and have its Alt Fire removed, or have the Alt Fire and no Scattered Justice? Personally I would rather have the Alt Fire. Personally I wouldn't mind having both but.. I am extremely biased and favourable towards the Kuva Hek. 

Acid Shells could instead follow the path of Ogris/Kuva Ogris, Kuva Drakgoon/Drakgoon (and well there are actually more Kuva/Tenet weapons that can use specialised mods, IIRC than their aren't, its the Kuva Hek that tends to be the outlier). That being said, eh, maybe the Kuva Sobek will have a new innate feature/mode that so powerful, that they won't let Acid Shell be used. Kuva Hek released strong and a lot of issues people had were prior to the release. It still ended up being a strong meta weapon against Liches/Sisters and then Archons. Its alt fire was extremely strong. It needs to one shot Archons even harder? 

Again, I understand and sympathise with those that wanted it to work, but eh. Same with Sobek. Right now, I think it should work, then again, maybe its been changed enough to be really really strong without it, or that it would be "way too strong with it", but of course thats another discussion. Like obviously people could compare it to the Torid Incarnon, to say "its not more powerful than that so" because something similar happened with Kuva Hek, and comparisons to the Zarr and Bramma, but ehhh... As someone who likes the Kuva Hek, and doesn't like Kuva Bramma and Kuva Zarr, I am just glad the weapon I like has ammo... plus it carved out its own niche for big single target DPS. I still enjoy it a lot sans Scattered Justice. I think it should still be more of an outlier, unless they are cooking up something unhinged for the Kuva Sobek. 

[ToastyGrimlock98]

33 minutes ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

This sort of feels more like a sarcastic jab, than sincere, so I apologise in advance for misinterpreting if thats the case, 

If you are actually sincerely asking DE to just be consistent... well the main problem with that, is that most things in reality, and thus in games, are combinations of differences and similarities. When you might ask for consistency, you are usually actually just asking for a specific type of consistency that you may subjectively find more relevant or appealing (well that and objectively depending on a criteria applied). 

For example, the Hek and Kuva Hek have a difference. You can use an alt fire with the Kuva Hek, you can't do that with the regular Hek. Vaykor Hek already has its own Syndicate attribute. Scattered Justice as a Mod/Augment also has different properties to other weapons Mods/Augments. As there are also differences in the weapons themselves. Now its totally totally reasonable, to desire some sort of consistency, and obviously discern between different types and sets of consistencies (like acknowledging that guns will vary but still desiring that a pattern remain constant with say application of mods/augments) but... people should still be able to acknowledge and understand that say... the actual specific interaction with an Augment/Mod on a variable like an Alt Fire, may result in unintended consequences. 

So lets say you hypothetically had to pick one? Either have the Kuva Hek work with Scattered Justice and have its Alt Fire removed, or have the Alt Fire and no Scattered Justice? Personally I would rather have the Alt Fire. Personally I wouldn't mind having both but.. I am extremely biased and favourable towards the Kuva Hek. 

Acid Shells could instead follow the path of Ogris/Kuva Ogris, Kuva Drakgoon/Drakgoon (and well there are actually more Kuva/Tenet weapons that can use specialised mods, IIRC than their aren't, its the Kuva Hek that tends to be the outlier). That being said, eh, maybe the Kuva Sobek will have a new innate feature/mode that so powerful, that they won't let Acid Shell be used. Kuva Hek released strong and a lot of issues people had were prior to the release. It still ended up being a strong meta weapon against Liches/Sisters and then Archons. Its alt fire was extremely strong. It needs to one shot Archons even harder? 

Again, I understand and sympathise with those that wanted it to work, but eh. Same with Sobek. Right now, I think it should work, then again, maybe its been changed enough to be really really strong without it, or that it would be "way too strong with it", but of course thats another discussion. Like obviously people could compare it to the Torid Incarnon, to say "its not more powerful than that so" because something similar happened with Kuva Hek, and comparisons to the Zarr and Bramma, but ehhh... As someone who likes the Kuva Hek, and doesn't like Kuva Bramma and Kuva Zarr, I am just glad the weapon I like has ammo... plus it carved out its own niche for big single target DPS. I still enjoy it a lot sans Scattered Justice. I think it should still be more of an outlier, unless they are cooking up something unhinged for the Kuva Sobek. 

I fail to see how having an alt fire invalidates a weapon from having an augment installed.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

12 minutes ago, ToastyGrimlock98 said:

I fail to see how having an alt fire invalidates a weapon from having an augment installed.

 

Sure, but ultimately thats up your own discretion and sincerity as far as finding whether a reason exists, and then deciding whether you ultimately agree or disagree, whilst also being able to maintain an understanding and acknowledgment for the opposing perspective to the one you end up leaning towards. 

To someone like myself, a multi shot boosting augment on a weapon that already has very strong multi shot normally, before addressing a new feature that allows for a multiplicative multi shot function, is distinct enough to understand why discretion may be used. Even if I could also disagree and desire that Scattering Justice should be allowed regardless or take a more neutral or apathetic stance and have no strong sense or feeling one way or another, or if I agreed and thought it should be disallowed. 

Understanding and endorsement are different. 

[KitMeHarder]

3 hours ago, ToastyGrimlock98 said:

It was decided that since Kuva Hek was already better than regular Hek that it shouldn’t be allowed to use the Hek’s augment mod Scattered Justice.

This logic should be maintained with Kuva Sobek should not be allowed to use Acid Shells

Yes, because one S#&$ty exception always makes the rule. Right? Just ignore the countless other augments adversary weapons can use, including THERMAGNETIC SHELLS, which is the same exact augment.

3 hours ago, ToastyGrimlock98 said:

I’m just asking DE to be consistent.

This community has such a S#&$ty way of asking for nerfs to be reverted sometimes. I feel y'all would throw your own firstborn under a bus too if it'd get you what you want.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

5 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

I feel y'all would throw your own firstborn under a bus too if it'd get you what you want.

 

Well, my first born, second born and third born, for consistency sake. Like even if hypothetically my first born was the literal anti Clem, or like a little clone of Ballas, or perhaps a sinister shadow aspect of the Main the Wall, and my remaining children were all lovely, sweet, compassionate, fun, witty kids, precious, innocent and warm... All I am asking my wife, is that we stay consistent. If one child is under the bus, all the children should go under the bus. 

My mother didn't raise no hypocrite, well, except maybe my brother... Wait a minute, did I just figuratively throw him under the bus with what I just said... Whelp, guess its time to go lay down on the figurative road, so I too will get run over by the figurative bus... You know, for consistency, since thats really the only thing that matters really. 

 

[L3512]

no

[LittleLeoniePrime]

9 hours ago, ToastyGrimlock98 said:

I’m just asking DE to be consistent.

you'ree not tho. The hek uses a SYNDICATE augment mod while the augments for the drakgoon, ogris and sobek drop from rathuum/kela de thaym they are different things.

not to mention the tenet tetra can use all tetra augments as well.

they made an EXCEPTION for the hek, for good reason. It's alt-fire is already op as is, it doesn't require more multishot can we simply just accept this exception to the rule as such and give other weapons they power boost they (might) need

Edited April 27 by LittleLeoniePrime

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

6 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

community has such a S#&$ty way of asking for nerfs to be reverted sometimes. I feel y'all would throw your own firstborn under a bus too if it'd get you what you want.

Like some spartan warrior, the buff has been weighed and has been found wanting, or the buff sacrifices itself as tribute.

[FiveN9ne]

Acid Shells only scales off of Bane so i don't see how base stats have anything to do with it. Not to mention how it's broken and doesn't take into account the SP health modifier but only takes the base unit's value. Outside of Saryn it's barely usable.

The only thing the kuva variant does is make it easier to kill the initial single target and for that purpose Sobek is a sub par shotgun. The kuva version will very likely be mr fodder because dispo will be too low to compete with regular Sobek. This is of course not taking into account any added gimmicks or unknown alt fire mechanics but simply a stat rehaul.

Edited April 27 by FiveN9ne

[Pakaku]

Kuva Hek already has 400% multishot on its alt-fire, and the syndicate mod would effectively double that. That's an insane amount of power and I'm not surprised it was ever restricted

Unless a Kuva Sobek has the same multishot alt-fire mechanics, there should be no problems with running the syndicate mod

[ToastyGrimlock98]

On 2024-04-27 at 2:15 AM, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

 

Sure, but ultimately thats up your own discretion and sincerity as far as finding whether a reason exists, and then deciding whether you ultimately agree or disagree, whilst also being able to maintain an understanding and acknowledgment for the opposing perspective to the one you end up leaning towards. 

To someone like myself, a multi shot boosting augment on a weapon that already has very strong multi shot normally, before addressing a new feature that allows for a multiplicative multi shot function, is distinct enough to understand why discretion may be used. Even if I could also disagree and desire that Scattering Justice should be allowed regardless or take a more neutral or apathetic stance and have no strong sense or feeling one way or another, or if I agreed and thought it should be disallowed. 

Understanding and endorsement are different. 

I feel like that was nothing more than a massive word sandwich to say “stfu Scattered Justice shouldn’t be usable on Kuva Hek”.

 

when DE made that decision they said they’d be watching the feedback for good reasons to change that. They got plenty of good reasons. They didn’t change it.

 

On 2024-04-27 at 8:17 AM, LittleLeoniePrime said:

you'ree not tho. The hek uses a SYNDICATE augment mod while the augments for the drakgoon, ogris and sobek drop from rathuum/kela de thaym they are different things.

not to mention the tenet tetra can use all tetra augments as well.

they made an EXCEPTION for the hek, for good reason. It's alt-fire is already op as is, it doesn't require more multishot can we simply just accept this exception to the rule as such and give other weapons they power boost they (might) need

Why should it being a syndicate augment make any difference? Thats  a random detail. Supra vandals far better than regular Supra. Yet it can still use Supras syndicate augment. So the fact that Kuva Hek can’t is just an arbitrary restriction born from extremely flimsy logic.

Dude, we have Warframes that can nuke whole maps. Giving more damage to a single target weapon isn’t going to ruin the game.

On 2024-04-27 at 11:34 AM, FiveN9ne said:

Acid Shells only scales off of Bane so i don't see how base stats have anything to do with it. Not to mention how it's broken and doesn't take into account the SP health modifier but only takes the base unit's value. Outside of Saryn it's barely usable.

The only thing the kuva variant does is make it easier to kill the initial single target and for that purpose Sobek is a sub par shotgun. The kuva version will very likely be mr fodder because dispo will be too low to compete with regular Sobek. This is of course not taking into account any added gimmicks or unknown alt fire mechanics but simply a stat rehaul.

Weapons are more than their riven disposition. 

[FiveN9ne]

3 minutes ago, ToastyGrimlock98 said:

Weapons are more than their riven disposition. 

How about you re-read what i wrote again and come up with an actual argument instead of singling out 1 phrase out of context and thinking you had a gotcha moment.