New mod incoming

[ShruikanUmbra]

I’m intrigued by the new mod Pablo talked about in the last Devstream: a mod thought for semiauto that nullifies fire rate modifications but increases damage and adds punch-through.

-Would it also work on fullauto/charged weapons? (Any weapon)

-Would it nullify the negative fire rate aswell? (Critical Delay)

-Would it nullify external buffs from arcanes/abilities?

-Worth the slot? (enough damage/punch-through+cost)

[L3512]

3 minutes ago, ShruikanUmbra said:

-Would it also work on fullauto/charged weapons? (Any weapon)

Presumably not.

 

4 minutes ago, ShruikanUmbra said:

-Would it nullify the negative fire rate aswell? (Critical Delay)

-Would it nullify external buffs from arcanes/abilities?

Sounds like the intention is fixed fire rate so I'd guess not.

 

4 minutes ago, ShruikanUmbra said:

-Worth the slot? (enough damage/punch-through+cost)

If it's base damage, it's going to need to be quite a large amount to compete with ROF which basically acts as it's own separate modifier in cases where you are not one shotting.

[trst]

Charge weapons are technically a different trigger type from semi-auto. So just off the wording it technically shouldn't, But also charge weapons tend to have innate punch-through.

Again based on the wording "nullifies fire rate modifications" implies all changes to fire rate both negative and external buffs. Though I could see it going either way with the simple approach of all modifications or changing it to only "positive modifications" just so nobody starts rerolling Rivens for a new dead stat as their negative.

And it depends. It either needs to be flat base damage, like Incarnons, or work like a universal faction mod multiplying damage for it to possibly be useful. If however it works like Serration then the mod will be 100% DOA for Primaries due to Primed Shred just being better while possibly useful for Secondaries that don't need fire rate and only if it's cheaper than Seeker's 15 mod cost.

 

Though while I don't know the context it was brought up in if it has anything to do with trying to make semi-auto weapons competitive then it'll be a failure regardless. The one thing we're absolutely not short in is damage so slapping that in does mostly nothing. And as the whole issue with semi-auto weapons is how much more effort they require to hit enemies Punch Through doesn't solve that issue while reduced fire rate would actually make the issue worse.

If DE does want to bridge the chasm between semi-auto vs automatic/AOE then they should just look at the ricochet mechanic some Incarnons have. A mod like: [+50% Ricochet (Nullifies Positive Fire Rate Effects)] would actually be worth slotting.

Edited May 7 by trst

[Tiltskillet]

It's fun to speculate based on what was said during the stream versus what was written in the summary.   But whatever ideas they had during the stream may change a lot before release.  I'm not getting too wound up about it until I see a screenshot or a leak, and maybe not until I get it in my hands.

I'll just note that in the summary it only says "Mod for Semi-Auto weapons that disables the ability to equip fire rate mods but offers damage buffs."  But I'm not going to take any of it too literally at this point.  After all, Pablo used Sybaris as an example, and it's not technically "semi-auto" as far as the Arsenal is concerned.

I'll just talk about what I hope happens:

1 hour ago, ShruikanUmbra said:

-Would it also work on fullauto/charged weapons? (Any weapon)

Hope it works on charge, burst, and other weird trigger weapons and not just what the game calls "semi-auto".  Probably full auto too?  Since they said it would work on semi-auto converted to full.  But I'm less sure about that.  There are some weapons with high innate RoF that might be pretty unbalanced.

 

1 hour ago, ShruikanUmbra said:

-Would it nullify the negative fire rate aswell? (Critical Delay)

I hope not.  That would be very silly.  Plus there are times it's nice to build for slower RoF, for IB/Hemo, ammo economy, or recoil management.

1 hour ago, ShruikanUmbra said:

-Would it nullify external buffs from arcanes/abilities?

Tricky.  I'm leaning toward hoping it does, mostly because it'll be a way for me to control my RoF regardless of squad buffs.   And it makes the penalty more of a real penalty instead of a nominal one that can be largely circumvented.   But it'll be painful in some cases.  I'd have some tough decisions to make with Harrow, for instance.

 

1 hour ago, ShruikanUmbra said:

-Worth the slot? (enough damage/punch-through+cost)

Obviously I hope so.  I'm really curious not only about the quantity of damage bonus but the type.   And if it's 0.5 PT, I may cry. :P

[PublikDomain]

2 hours ago, ShruikanUmbra said:

-Worth the slot? (enough damage/punch-through+cost)

That's the part that confuses me. If it's worth the slot, won't people use it and still use their macro/scroll wheel/etc to make it even better?

[Tiltskillet]

9 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

That's the part that confuses me. If it's worth the slot, won't people use it and still use their macro/scroll wheel/etc to make it even better?

During the stream they said it wasn't coupled with or contingent on using the auto toggle.

[Voltage]

2 hours ago, L3512 said:

If it's base damage, it's going to need to be quite a large amount to compete with ROF which basically acts as it's own separate modifier in cases where you are not one shotting.

I'm curious to try it on Vectis Prime.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

I am intrigued and curious as well, but I am also keeping my expectations low for the moment. I like a few of the weapons of relevant weapon type category, Sybaris for example, but since their are so many unanswered questions, and ways to interpret it, I'm sort of acing under the premise it won't be that good. That way, if it is, I'll be pleasantly surprised. Plus I already saw it as a net positive to have a toggle for those types of weapons, so people could have their choices. The new mod is like the cherry on top of the icing of the cake. 

[PublikDomain]

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

During the stream they said it wasn't coupled with or contingent on using the auto toggle.

Didn't he say kinda the opposite?

It disables the auto-fire toggle and fire rate modding for that weapon and gives damage and punchthrough.

Fire rate modding isn't all that common - especially on SARs - and the build multipliers that you can get from that can be achieved in other ways, so if you're already using a macro/scroll wheel/etc for your Latron or whatever then this new mod isn't going to stop you from doing that.

Edited May 7 by PublikDomain

[0_The_F00l]

I find it too vague currently ,

If it just locks the fire rate to default then some weapons, for me atleast , will not be equipping it.

My prisma grinlok , chakur and arca plasmor forego damage for some better fire rate for example.

If it locks the fire rate at a fixed value between 2 to 2.5 I may consider it.

[Tiltskillet]

58 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Didn't he say kinda the opposite?

It could have been more clear, but between 1:17 and about 1:18 they mention three times, in various ways, that the auto setting can be used in parallel with the mod. 

If that's not what they meant, they really need to script these streams a bit more, lol.

56 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

If it just locks the fire rate to default then some weapons, for me atleast , will not be equipping it.

My prisma grinlok , chakur and arca plasmor forego damage for some better fire rate for example.

If it locks the fire rate at a fixed value between 2 to 2.5 I may consider it.

Well, that'd be a buff for those weapons' APS, and a severe penalty for the 5.0 APS semi-auto weapons.  Even though I think slow weapons tend to have special problems in this game that faster weapons don't, I hope they don't go that route.

[ShruikanUmbra]

14 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Obviously I hope so.  I'm really curious not only about the quantity of damage bonus but the type.   And if it's 0.5 PT, I may cry. :P

If I’m not mistaken, Pablo also said that it would replace Shred(prime), so it would need 1.2 PT minimum, similar cost (from 11 to 16, Madurai), and an equivalent in damage (additive or multiplicative) as the +30%/+55% fire rate.

 

13 hours ago, Voltage said:

I'm curious to try it on Vectis Prime.

Vectis Prime sounds like a special case: a weapon usually combined with both additive and mutiplicative damage (charged/primed chamber). I hope the new mod brings up high additive values or an universal faction multiplier, so it multiplies both the additive damage and the final multipliers some weapons have access to (charged/primed chamber, longbow sharpshot, …)

[Nira]

Sounds neat but they could just repurpose Heavy Caliber for it, instead of adding yet another mod. The name still fits and HC is currently obsolete. 

[L3512]

6 hours ago, Voltage said:

I'm curious to try it on Vectis Prime.

I'm partially apathetic. About the Mod. Semi toggle is good QOL IMO.

Edited May 7 by L3512

[ShruikanUmbra]

hace 1 hora, Nira dijo:

Sounds neat but they could just repurpose Heavy Caliber for it, instead of adding yet another mod. The name still fits and HC is currently obsolete. 

That’s a great idea!

[SneakyErvin]

I'm wondering how it will interact with multi-mode weapons like Kuva Hind, Tiberon Prime and so on. Will it work on all the modes or just Burst and Semi? Or how it will work on weapons like Burston that has burst in normal mode and very high RoF full-auto as incarnon. 

Also if it works on all types of weapons and just caps RoF, it will be an interesting choice on weapons that could benefit from PT while lacking slots to field both Gundition/Serration and Shred(Primed). Meaning that if it is a universal mod, replacing (Amalgam) Serration with it on weapons that cannot benefit from gundition (small AoE hit weapons) could be a great benefit.

[PublikDomain]

9 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

It could have been more clear, but between 1:17 and about 1:18 they mention three times, in various ways, that the auto setting can be used in parallel with the mod.

Hmm, yeah that's not very clear.

9 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

If that's not what they meant, they really need to script these streams a bit more, lol.

DE? Following a script? lol

[Venus-Venera]

vor 15 Stunden schrieb ShruikanUmbra:

-Worth the slot? (enough damage/punch-through+cost)

certainly not!
Most weapons need all the damage they can get. and many warframes play without buffs. therefore I can also go into mele range and kill it very quickly.

[Voltage]

7 hours ago, L3512 said:

I'm partially apathetic. About the Mod. Semi toggle is good QOL IMO.

I like the QoL and everything as well. The only weapon I want to try the mod on is Vectis Prime :p

I do wonder if the semi auto toggle turns Sybaris into an auto-burst like Battacor.

[Tiltskillet]

8 hours ago, Nira said:

Sounds neat but they could just repurpose Heavy Caliber for it, instead of adding yet another mod. The name still fits and HC is currently obsolete. 

I value HC and its siblings primarily for their effects on spread.  More in the Sim than anywhere else, but Magnum Force and Vicious Spread get a bit of use in actual missions.

[UnstarPrime]

Warframe's buildcraft is often buried under the weight of having so many multipliers.  Don't want your melee weapon to animate so fast that it's an incomprehensible blur?  That's your choice, but you'd be leaving two different layers of damage multipliers on the table.

So I'm incredibly intrigued by any mods that are attempting to provide more viable options in this space.  Singular precision attacks with a powerful weapon feel so great; fingers crossed that this can deliver.