Removing "Screen Shake" Recoil from specific continuous/beam weapons

[Voltage]

Greetings. Recoil in general exists for weapons to give them some feedback/flavor while firing. Continuous weapons (as we know of as "beam weapons") in general are supposed to have no recoil.

As per Update 22.13.3:

Quote

Beam Weapon behavior was originally changed to help with performance but as we've made optimizations to the game over time, we can return them to their original status of hitscan weapons with pinpoint accuracy and zero recoil. 

However, some weapons have a "screen shake" recoil pattern/effect on firing, which is subsequently not disabled when disabling screen shake in the settings. Because this weapon archetype has a high fire rate and tick rate, this can be anywhere from mildly annoying to causing a headache over long periods of time for players. This has been reported in the past, but I wanted to make a more complete list of these issues.

Unfortunately, there is no proper way to test added recoil without owning a Riven Mod on all these weapons, but I'd still like to bring attention the ones that would benefit from having this "screen shake recoil" removed. All continuous weapons should not have any recoil. This would improve the player experience, and remove an unnecessary recoil pattern/effect that can easily be jarring for the user. I tested all continuous weapons in the game (including all continuous Archguns, Amp Prisms, Amp Scaffolds and the Photor Railjack Armament), and anything with a slight bit of screen shake I wrote here. Unfortunately, I cannot test every single Kitgun Grip. I also do not know whether the Loader affects this. I assume it does not, as I noticed different behavior between two secondary Kitguns with the Splat Loader.

These are the problematic weapons as follows:

Primaries:

• Boar Prime Incarnon Form
  • Base Boar Incarnon Form does not have any screen shake.
• Glaxion Vandal
  • Normal Glaxion does not have any screen shake.
• Phantasma
• Phantasma Prime
• Primary Vermisplicer with the Tremor Grip
• Tenet Glaxion
  • Normal Glaxion does not have any screen shake.
• Torid Incarnon Form
  • This is new/recent. It now has upwards recoil and screen shake recoil.

Secondaries:

• Catabolyst
• Furis Incarnon Form
• Kuva Nukor
  • Normal Nukor does not have any screen shake.
• Mk1-Furis Incarnon Form
• Secondary Vermisplicer with the Ulnaris Grip
  • Secondary Vermisplicer with the Haymaker Grip does not have any screen shake.

Archgun:

• Cortege
• Larkspur
• Larkspur Prime

It would be really nice if this could be addressed and improve the experience of using these weapons. All continuous/beam weapons should behave the same for recoil.

Edited September 16 by Voltage
Added Torid and Boar Prime Incarnon Form

[Tiltskillet]

17 hours ago, Voltage said:

Unfortunately, there is no proper way to test added recoil without owning a Riven Mod on all these weapons

You can probably simulate it by increasing your FPS setting, as it greatly increases the shake on Phantasma and Glaxion Vandal (at least).   FWIW I  looked at Amprex, Synapse, Ignis Wraith, Spectra Vandal, and Ocucor briefly using this method and didn't see any.

 

18 hours ago, Voltage said:

It would be really nice if this could be addressed and improve the experience of using these weapons. All continuous/beam weapons should behave the same for recoil, especially when the current list of 

Cliffhanger...

[Voltage]

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

You can probably simulate it by increasing your FPS setting, as it greatly increases the shake on Phantasma and Glaxion Vandal (at least).   FWIW I  looked at Amprex, Synapse, Ignis Wraith, Spectra Vandal, and Ocucor briefly using this method and didn't see any.

That sounds more like a bug report and not feedback.

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

Cliffhanger...

I accidentally hit Enter last night while writing this and didn't notice I didn't finish the last sentence until now, and now I forget what I was going to say. LOL

[Tiltskillet]

41 minutes ago, Voltage said:

That sounds more like a bug report and not feedback.

You're right, and I was contemplating doing just that after reading your topic.

  But I thought you were concerned about the problem even when only noticeable with the added recoil from rivens.  I think increasing the fps   can make even the tiniest of shakes perceptible even without a riven available to test this. 

I should add that  recoil totaling -100% seems to eliminate this shake entirely, even with 360 fps.  (Although I'm quite insensitive to shake, and obviously I haven't tested every weapon in the game, so I'd be curious to hear other opinions on this.)  So some combination of Deadhead / Stabilizer etc. / Vile Precision / Twitch etc.    I think it would be best to remove recoil from beam weapons entirely--especially those that didn't have it originally, like Phantasma--but that's a kind of workaround in the meantime.

[HunterDigi]

I'm not a fan of the screenshake recoil in general, it makes it very hard to see anything, my eyes start hurting from it. (my 60hz IPS monitor might contribute to this, but then people playing on TVs would get a much worse effect)

I prefer regular recoil that punches view towards up. If this screenshake is accesibility for input, please make it an option to replace shake with recoil.

Prime example is Titania's exalted pistols, they screenshake in all directions instead of just recoiling up.
I can zoom to remove that entire screenshake but then I have this very narrow FOV that induces motion sickness if used too much.

[Voltage]

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

I should add that  recoil totaling -100% seems to eliminate this shake entirely, even with 360 fps.  (Although I'm quite insensitive to shake, and obviously I haven't tested every weapon in the game, so I'd be curious to hear other opinions on this.)  So some combination of Deadhead / Stabilizer etc. / Vile Precision / Twitch etc.    I think it would be best to remove recoil from beam weapons entirely--especially those that didn't have it originally, like Phantasma--but that's a kind of workaround in the meantime.

The point of this thread is that out of 41 unique continuous weapons, 25% of them break the rule of having no recoil, and their implemented forced "screenshake" as recoil is inadequate. Given 31/41 have zero recoil, and some of the problematic weapons don't have this mechanic applied equally to the weapon family, it would be better off removed, or atleast allow players to disable it when they disable the accessibility setting for screenshake.

[Tiltskillet]

1 minute ago, Voltage said:

The point of this thread is that out of 41 unique continuous weapons, 25% of them break the rule of having no recoil, and their implemented forced "screenshake" as recoil is inadequate.

Is it a rule?  I mean, do you know that DE ever said something like "beam weapons will never have recoil?" I'm really just asking for curiosity's sake.  I think it would be a good thing if DE made it a rule even if it's not one now.

Also if I've upset you by appearing to suggest there is no need for a DE review here, that was not my intent.  My intention was just to point out a workaround that, unsatisfactory as it is, may still help people in the meantime.

[Voltage]

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

Is it a rule?  I mean, do you know that DE ever said something like "beam weapons will never have recoil?" I'm really just asking for curiosity's sake.  I think it would be a good thing if DE made it a rule even if it's not one now.

2018: 

 

Quote

Beam Weapon behavior was originally changed to help with performance but as we've made optimizations to the game over time, we can return them to their original status of hitscan weapons with pinpoint accuracy and zero recoil.

Edited May 9 by Voltage

[Tiltskillet]

3 minutes ago, Voltage said:

2018: 

 

Thank you.

[Voltage]

4 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Thank you.

I guess this feedback is now a bug report, as I've discovered they put in writing that these weapons should have no recoil. LOL

Edited May 9 by Voltage

[Tiltskillet]

On 2024-05-08 at 4:30 PM, Voltage said:

These are the problematic weapons as follows:

Furis in Incarnon form can be added to the list.    Have you had a chance to look at Tenet Glaxion?

[Voltage]

Just now, Tiltskillet said:

Furis in Incarnon form can be added to the list.    Have you had a chance to look at Tenet Glaxion?

Tenet Glaxion has it as well and already added by me. I will add Furis Incarnon thanks.

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

Credit to @7bigpete for finding furis issue.

[(PSN)Sentiel]

If memory serves, the normal Phantasma didn't have recoil originally. It was added to it when the Prime was released. I could be wrong of course.

Your list is also missing Incarnon modes from Torid and Boar, which are also beams. I'm not sure whether it's worth to mention those though. With Incarnons, it's a bit difficult to place some logic behind their recoil. The worst offender is Gammacor. Normally, it's a zero recoil beam but once transformed it turns into the most vomit inducing launcher in the whole game. Worse then even Archguns. As such, I'm never sure what to expect from them and what rules should apply to them.

 

Anyway, I appreciate this topic because I specifically seek out weapons with no recoil because recoil in Warframe gives me nausea (only in Warframe for some reason). It's quite frustrating to specifically obtain a beam weapon to get around this issue of mine only to find out it has recoil as well. Tenet Glaxion being the latest example.

[Tiltskillet]

4 minutes ago, (PSN)Sentiel said:

If memory serves, the normal Phantasma didn't have recoil originally. It was added to it when the Prime was released. I could be wrong of course.

I think this is true too.  Or at least, if it didn't happen simultaneously with the Prime, it didn't happen long before the Prime release.

[Fred_Avant_2019]

The fact that you can't disable it with the accessibility option is what I find unfair.

You can remove the screen shaking from all sorts of explosions and tremmors in a ship, but if you're firing your gun, that's crossing the line? What? Why? What is the reasoning behind this? Is this some sort of hidden limitations we've not been made aware of? Or is it some sort of """"""""""balancing""""""""""" because omg beams 2 op amirite ? (if so where's all the shaking on the ignis?)

Please remove this screen shake, it's nauseating, and I don't even have a medical condition that would make it worse for me, I can only imagine just how much vomit people who do spray on their screen when they try these for the first time.

[Voltage]

Added Torid and Boar Prime Incarnon Form. Torid was recently added (guessing Jade Shadows), but base Boar Incarnon Form doesn't have any screen shake.

Edited September 16 by Voltage