Melee Influence

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

Can someone explain to me what melee Influence does? This person claims to have an awesome setup citing melee influence as a key component.

Yet, using jat kittag, does not have an electricity mod and jat kittag does not do innate electricity damage.

So how does melee Influence benefit the setup when the wiki says the arcane is procced by a melee hit?

https://overframe.gg/build/575559/jat-kittag/the-strongest-saryn-melee-build-to-ever-exist-jat-kittag-whispers-in-the-wall/

[quxier]

https://youtu.be/BHUOcXyuIB8?si=Rgd9ZMdhQhq_sXD6&t=228

228 second

[Venus-Venera]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb (XBOX)Player244024418:

Can someone explain to me what melee Influence does? This person claims to have an awesome setup citing melee influence as a key component.

Yet, using jat kittag, does not have an electricity mod and jat kittag does not do innate electricity damage.

So how does melee Influence benefit the setup when the wiki says the arcane is procced by a melee hit?

https://overframe.gg/build/575559/jat-kittag/the-strongest-saryn-melee-build-to-ever-exist-jat-kittag-whispers-in-the-wall/

don't let that fool you. This is another typical trolloverframe case. So fake information with emotional hype is being spread. it's anything but about helping, it's simply about quick real life cash in YouTube.

How it works was more or less explained in the causal video. and we also see the damage in the video.
and now we can just test saryn with 3 buffs + max str with good tank for sp mode + 2 mele dmg arcanes in simulation. Spawn 20x elite sp lvl 190 units. and let's take ranged glave modded for heavy attack.... and what do we see??? MILLION CRITS non-stop! and in normal sp missions there is really nothing alive... Especially if Saryn has support Warframe in the group, the damage is increased significantly

and you don't even need that. simply take usable mele for slam and spam spam. Especially in the SP circuit you will have an easy time because Saryn gets to 19mil aoe slam crits very quickly.-

Edited May 13 by Venus-Venera

[(PSN)Pablogamer585]

Melee influence spreads all the elemental procs of your weapon when you hit an enemy to all nearby ones, impact puncture and slash are not included as those are physical types.

Azn has Shock subsumed on his Saryn with the Shock Trooper augment which gives him electric damage to all his attacks.

You can deduce this from the first 20 seconds of the video which is linked below the build.
There is no fake information, you just had to look a bit further into things.

Edited May 13 by (PSN)Pablogamer585
Added what Melee Influence does.

[quxier]

10 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

don't let that fool you. This is another typical trolloverframe case. So fake information with emotional hype is being spread. it's anything but about helping, it's simply about quick real life cash in YouTube.

Hold your horses. Just because it's another emotional and "here is the best build for X" doesn't mean that the rest information are wrong. Seriously, trolling is much much better/worse than click-baity videos. At least this vide has some information (just watched ~12 minutes and it's sounds reasonable). Some stuff may be fixed but that's not author fault.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 49 Minuten schrieb quxier:

Hold your horses. Just because it's another emotional and "here is the best build for X" doesn't mean that the rest information are wrong. Seriously, trolling is much much better/worse than click-baity videos. At least this vide has some information (just watched ~12 minutes and it's sounds reasonable). Some stuff may be fixed but that's not author fault.

useful information is always dry and boring. You don't know anything about the human psyche or brain functions anyway. otherwise you would never write such nonsense! When emotions are involved, critical thinking is shut down. That's just a fact!

OP sought help and the video says blatant lies like "The STRONGEST Saryn Melee Build to Ever Exist.". For such a cool video, the author should have at least used a click-bait face with an open mouth and round eyes. That would at least deter all normal people from watching...

and Saryn is a top warframe that has more than 3x very strong builds. Everything can be tested and we can easily check how a build with weapon x + 2 dmg arcanes performs in missions like sp void ani. Because it's pure math and we can compare the kill stats after 5 minutes and exchange them with build and possibly improve the whole thing.

-> I also tested the Jat Kittag earlier with this arcane and the performance was ridiculous!

[FiveN9ne]

The build can be improved by removing viral from the weapon and subsuming Nourish instead of Shock Trooper. This frees up an additional melee mod slot and Nourish is a better subsume ability than Shock. It also frees up a mod slot on the frame itself because no augment. 

Logic behind using Shock Trooper is electric weighing, which isn't that relevant as you only need it to proc influence, you don't need to spam many electric procs or use it to kill. Especially with Saryn. Spores armor strip, you have viral/electric on weapon. Toxin is force proc'd for every hit/status spread. Blitz explodes and spreads Lash even more.

The only thing i'm not sure is if Vulcan Blitz is bugged like Acid Shells is and scales off base enemy HP ignoring Steel Path modifiers.

The easiest and best way to setup melee influence would be on weapons that don't need to have electric or that have corrosive innately. Something like a Prova Vandal that force procs electric on slam. This allows you to use Corrosive/Heat (Viral with Nourish or primer optional). Most people use 2 green shards to allow Corrosive to full strip enemies resulting in everything dying in 2 seconds. You can also use a Caustacyst, Rumblejack, Arca Titron. This setup works on any frame. Obviously, if you use Saryn, she can do it with any weapon because of Venom Dose.

As far as the "clickbait" title that was mentioned, it is just a way to gain visibility due to Youtube's algorithm. Is it the strongest Saryn melee build? It quite possibly could be. Is it important if it is not? No. A lot of Youtube videos have clickbaity titles, that's just how it works nowadays, blame Google not the content creators.

[SneakyErvin]

The main thing is you just want some source for electric, enough to get the buff up. After that you preferably want one main element so only it procs as often as possible since the damage is based on the modded damage of the element that triggers. This is also why you want a weapon that hits fast and several times over with combos, since you'll produce so many statuses that spread.

Slow weapons with slow and few hitting combos but high multipliers wont help you with influence, since the damage isnt based on the damage you deal, but the damage you've got modded. This also applies to your heavy attacks, so you preferably want a weapon that hits several times with a single heavy attack. Because if you have a big single hit with a massive multiplier, you'll simply kill the target you hit and spread no potential status (even if a proc occurs). But on a multiple hit HA you might not kill the target on damage instance 1 or 2, but instead on damage instance 3, so in that case if instance 1 and 2 procs statuses, those will also spread while damage instance 3 wont since it kills the target.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 30 Minuten schrieb FiveN9ne:

Is it the strongest Saryn melee build? It quite possibly could be.

Oh well. if you ignore everything possible and don't compare? but to each his own...
and there are still options for helmith skills that have much better dmg boost than those mentioned above. Someone has EVER tested something like this:

1. Hold mele button with fast mele?
2. Mele arcane ani stack up and instant kill with tennokai elite units/accolutes?
3. slam spam?

So in comparison, the slow grandpa two-handed weapon with Elec Proc is a useless thing.
Above all, you revealed the simple trick with green shard. How quickly do lvl 9999 enemies die again? Oh yes..

Edited May 13 by Venus-Venera

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Pablogamer585 said:

Melee influence spreads all the elemental procs of your weapon when you hit an enemy to all nearby ones, impact puncture and slash are not included as those are physical types.

Azn has Shock subsumed on his Saryn with the Shock Trooper augment which gives him electric damage to all his attacks.

You can deduce this from the first 20 seconds of the video which is linked below the build.
There is no fake information, you just had to look a bit further into things.

WIKI "Melee Influence only triggers from direct melee strikes."

OK, so you don't need electric on your melee, just need to proc electric somehow and then to proc influence, melee strike an enemy with an electric status proc.

I tried this with my hildryn with elemental ward using electric. I was using prisma skana.  Nothing was different. Damage numbers and red crits were basically the same as any other mission. Also tried nautilus with cordon and in 20m of SP survival I think it grouped enemies 3 times?

[quxier]

1 hour ago, Venus-Venera said:

OP sought help and the video says blatant lies like "The STRONGEST Saryn Melee Build to Ever Exist.". For such a cool video, the author should have at least used a click-bait face with an open mouth and round eyes. That would at least deter all normal people from watching...

What I'm trying to say is that OP asked about "why Influence works but weapon doesn't have Electric damage (not innate)" and you go crusade against yt creator. Nothing more to say. I won't reply to another similar reply.

34 minutes ago, FiveN9ne said:

The build can be improved by removing viral from the weapon and subsuming Nourish instead of Shock Trooper. This frees up an additional melee mod slot and Nourish is a better subsume ability than Shock. It also frees up a mod slot on the frame itself because no augment. 

Logic behind using Shock Trooper is electric weighing, which isn't that relevant as you only need it to proc influence, you don't need to spam many electric procs or use it to kill. Especially with Saryn. Spores armor strip, you have viral/electric on weapon. Toxin is force proc'd for every hit/status spread. Blitz explodes and spreads Lash even more.

So subsume Nourish -> free viral; Mod for electric. Ok, not sure about Shock trooper but can Jat kittag/Saryn proc Influence reliably? I've tested Influence and if it's not some huge attack speed, status chance and/or guaranteed electric proc it's very bad at procing Influence.

3 minutes ago, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

2 hours ago, (PSN)Pablogamer585 said:

Melee influence spreads all the elemental procs of your weapon when you hit an enemy to all nearby ones, impact puncture and slash are not included as those are physical types.

Azn has Shock subsumed on his Saryn with the Shock Trooper augment which gives him electric damage to all his attacks.

You can deduce this from the first 20 seconds of the video which is linked below the build.
There is no fake information, you just had to look a bit further into things.

WIKI "Melee Influence only triggers from direct melee strikes."

OK, so you don't need electric on your melee, just need to proc electric somehow and then to proc influence, melee strike an enemy with an electric status proc.

I tried this with my hildryn with elemental ward using electric. I was using prisma skana.  Nothing was different. Damage numbers and red crits were basically the same as any other mission. Also tried nautilus with cordon and in 20m of SP survival I think it grouped enemies 3 times?

If I understand that wiki quote correctly, your melee needs to proc electric. In case of Nautilus or elemental ward your melee doesn't proc electric, hence no Melee influence trigger. Compare it to e.g. Melee Vortex that just need kill (probably from melee, I don't remember) but magnetic proc can be from any source.

[(PSN)Pablogamer585]

hace 9 minutos, (XBOX)Player244024418 dijo:

OK, so you don't need electric on your melee, just need to proc electric somehow and then to proc influence, melee strike an enemy with an electric status proc.

Your melee weapon activates melee influence, all you need is for the weapon to be able to proc it, as Five9 mentioned some weapons can inherently do this due to them having electricity on some of their attacks, even Volt's passive works for this purpose. External sources like sentinel weapons or anything but your melee, won't.
There are "not really melee" things in game which can trigger melee influence, but these are far from your everyday play occurrences or things that you can use in your favour easily.

For example, Blackout Pulse, a Railjack ability despite being a ranged explosive attack, triggers melee influence.

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)Pablogamer585 said:

Your melee weapon activates melee influence

This does seem to be the case. I'll have to duplicate the saryn and jat kittag build (making a new jat kittag now since i sold it), but again using hildryn with electric element ward the simulacrum gets me decent hits up to 200k-ish and some orange. I changed my prisma skana to only have electric and suddenly all red crits but the damage numbers weren't as high. Enemies died faster though. Best build seems to be electric only with the extra mod slots for quickening and carnis mandible to increase slash

[Venus-Venera]

vor 19 Minuten schrieb (PSN)Pablogamer585:

but your melee, won't.

very important point because this is exactly what confuses most players. And most of the time they are absolute beginners who have almost no understanding of the game. The official wiki urgently needs to improve this!

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

The question is whether electric needs to be procced by your melee or if it can be procced by something else. Yes the melee will trigger influence but do you need electric on it?

In simulacrum I simply don't see enough of a difference to know. 

[FiveN9ne]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Pablogamer585 said:

Your melee weapon activates melee influence, all you need is for the weapon to be able to proc it, as Five9 mentioned some weapons can inherently do this due to them having electricity on some of their attacks, even Volt's passive works for this purpose. External sources like sentinel weapons or anything but your melee, won't.
There are "not really melee" things in game which can trigger melee influence, but these are far from your everyday play occurrences or things that you can use in your favour easily.

For example, Blackout Pulse, a Railjack ability despite being a ranged explosive attack, triggers melee influence.

Things like Diriga Electro Pulse can proc influence too, there are other "bugged" ways but they shouldn't be considered as they will get fixed eventually i imagine.

1 hour ago, Venus-Venera said:

Oh well. if you ignore everything possible and don't compare? but to each his own...
and there are still options for helmith skills that have much better dmg boost than those mentioned above. Someone has EVER tested something like this:

1. Hold mele button with fast mele?
2. Mele arcane ani stack up and instant kill with tennokai elite units/accolutes?
3. slam spam?

So in comparison, the slow grandpa two-handed weapon with Elec Proc is a useless thing.
Above all, you revealed the simple trick with green shard. How quickly do lvl 9999 enemies die again? Oh yes..

What's OP about the build is not the damage you deal with your melee but the fact Vulcan Blitz explodes % hp in a radius which triggers Toxic Lash which triggers Blitz etc. and causes a chain effect. This on top of Melee influence with Viral Electric Toxin and Spores is what makes it strong, not the actual melee swings. It has very high map clearing potential. 

1 hour ago, quxier said:

So subsume Nourish -> free viral; Mod for electric. Ok, not sure about Shock trooper but can Jat kittag/Saryn proc Influence reliably? I've tested Influence and if it's not some huge attack speed, status chance and/or guaranteed electric proc it's very bad at procing Influence.

I find people underutilize Range a lot when it comes to influence. Hitting multiple enemies massively increases proc chance. And as you guessed it, you free up a mod slot for it. 

20 minutes ago, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

The question is whether electric needs to be procced by your melee or if it can be procced by something else. Yes the melee will trigger influence but do you need electric on it?

In simulacrum I simply don't see enough of a difference to know. 

Despite some bugged things like mentioned above being able to proc it, yes melee needs to have electric or to proc electric with an attack. Outside of force procs on slams or using Shock Trooper, you have to mod for it.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 1 Minute schrieb FiveN9ne:

What's OP about the build is not the damage you deal with your melee but the fact Vulcan Blitz explodes % hp in a radius which triggers Toxic Lash which triggers Blitz etc. and causes a chain effect. This on top of Melee influence with Viral Electric Toxin and Spores is what makes it strong, not the actual melee swings. It has very high map clearing potential.

Unfortunately that's not true at all. because here you have to define what content it is about.
Because for normal missions most people have their favorite speed runners and Saryn is definitely not one of them.

And for SP there are hard hitters who produce a lot of overkill damage and Saryn can't score points again without Warframe support... (since it's about something like SP circuit)

and I don't say anything bad to Saryn either. Because Warframe is actually good and has a lot of potential for tweaking...

[quxier]

1 hour ago, FiveN9ne said:

2 hours ago, quxier said:

So subsume Nourish -> free viral; Mod for electric. Ok, not sure about Shock trooper but can Jat kittag/Saryn proc Influence reliably? I've tested Influence and if it's not some huge attack speed, status chance and/or guaranteed electric proc it's very bad at procing Influence.

I find people underutilize Range a lot when it comes to influence. Hitting multiple enemies massively increases proc chance. And as you guessed it, you free up a mod slot for it. 

Range + Attack speed? Because I honestly don't see anything even 'average' without good attack speed. And I'm using Range (primed reach) on probably most builds but no attack speed.

[(PSN)iuvenilis]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

The question is whether electric needs to be procced by your melee

Generally, yes. Which is why, as has been mentioned, they're using Shock trooper augment to add the elec damage to their melee.

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

29 minutes ago, (PSN)iuvenilis said:

using Shock trooper augment to add the elec damage to their melee

Yeah looking at the jat kittag build it has physical and viral only so the added electric will not mix with any other elements and it will stay pure electric. Probably a good way to proc electric since you get 100% status chance vs my melee which is like 35%