Player to player messages/Auction House

[SneakyErvin]

54 minutes ago, _Anise_ said:

your critique can be applied to selling in the trade channels the difference is you have to spam "want to sell" *item* potentially for hour without getting anyone interested and you can't really post your entire inventory in chat

It's not in the same volumes. Since the trade chat is a miniscule part of the whole community and relies on people being online to trade. In the trade chat you likely wont have thousands of players trying to sell that set at once at the same price. If an AH is added everyone can just dump what they dont wanna keep onto said AH and have it sell without them having to worry. If it sells it sells and everything they put up for sale can be sold simultaneously and not trade by trade for instance.

So if DE were to set the minimum prices it wouldnt really matter, since it would still be a minimum price. And the deciding factor of whether or not you make a sale would be based on RNG, or maybe based on which auction is the oldest and shows up at the top, or maybe based on the in-game name of the seller and shown in an alphabetical order. Competition among sellers based on having fair prices and so on would be dead. And all this because the items we can sell in WF are just too common aswell as identical.

The one thing that would likely survive the introduction of an AH is the riven market, since it relies on rarity and RNG.

[PublikDomain]

10 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

What you describe is not an AH, you describe what would be called a trade broker/manager/agent.

Great, then Warframe can have a "trade broker" to... hold auctions, idk dude. Whatever you want to call it.

10 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And you also manage to include horrible flaws as ideas. Like hostage taking of currency due to how your trade works,

That's literally how it works in any other game that has bidding. When you place a bid your Gold or whatever gets held in reserve until you're outbid, then it gets sent back to you. 🤦‍♀️

10 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

and with opportunities to cheat prices due to it all coming down to the player deciding which bid he wants to accept. Including the option to add more to a bid than the "buyout" in this case would demand. Which in itself goes straight against how an AH works.

What buyout? What I described is all bidding, please keep up. The seller could pick whatever offer they feel is most valuable to them just like they can now.

10 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

It does not sell things for you

Because it can't. Like talking to a brick wall. 😂

[SneakyErvin]

14 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Great, then Warframe can have a "trade broker" to... hold auctions, idk dude. Whatever you want to call it.

If that would work yes. Though there would likely be things tied to that aswell that would see a massive drop in prices due to what we can sell in WF compared to other games, and due to what we get from our sales in WF compared to other games.

14 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

That's literally how it works in any other game that has bidding. When you place a bid your Gold or whatever gets held in reserve until you're outbid, then it gets sent back to you. 🤦‍♀️

No it's not. Since what you describe would hold the currency hostage all the way from the bid up to the point where the seller physically manually accepts one of the bids in the pool. That is how you worded your idea, or one of them atleast. Which would result in a player not being able to use his currency even if someone makes a better offer, meaning he cant make a better offer himself or seek out a different seller until the current seller has made up his mind regarding which bid to accept. Which could be the next minute or hour, or anywhere between that and the next day or however long the bid period lasts.

And it would be equally bad if the bid was just a reservation and the buyer could still spent his currency if he finds something else, since then all of a sudden the seller might not sell the item since someone backs on their bid. Which is also a thing not allowed within an auction, where bids are final the moment you place them.

14 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

What buyout? What I described is all bidding, please keep up. The seller could pick whatever offer they feel is most valuable to them just like they can now.

This part which effectively is it.

On 2024-05-31 at 7:15 PM, PublikDomain said:

Maybe I can see that someone else has already met the seller's request, but if I really want the item I can throw in a few Relics or something to make my bid that little bit more attractive!

When I as the seller come back I can see if there are any bids I like. If there are, I can accept them.

If there is a sellers request it is effectively the buyout. If you are talking about a minimum price then you are talking about regular bidding just with a minimum bid required for it to sell at the end of the period. If the seller decides by himself at the end among several different bids it is no longer an auction house, but a personal bidding war with personal rules determined by the seller. If it was an actual auction it would have ended with the highest bid automatically at the bidding periods end or when the buyout price is met during that period.

So if a seller has a minimum price of 200 it means the item wont be sold if a bid doesnt reach atleast that. If that minimum is reached the item goes to whomever made the highest bid as the auction ends. If there was also a buyout of say 500, the auction would end the moment that price is reached by anyone at which point that bidders recieves the item for that price. If there is neither a minimum or buyout, the item is sold automatically sold to the person who placed the highest bid.

14 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Because it can't. Like talking to a brick wall. 😂

Then it isnt an AH, since it cant achieve that specific thing, beacause it isnt allowed to.

Do you call people that want to be doctors or police officers doctors and police officers even if they arent allowed to perform those occupations for some reason? Likely not, since that would be utterly insane.

[Dexaldem]

On 2024-05-17 at 4:29 AM, PaladinMaximus1 said:

Could we get player to player "mail"?  We can whisper other online players, but never offline players.  Would it be possible to get an in-game mail system to communicate with offline players (receivable when they log in)?  Even if online players in friends list.  I've been waiting for an ingame friend to log in for 2 days for an ephemera trade but we keep missing each other.

Along with that, maybe a Tenno auction house to post items for sell/trade?  The 2 systems could easily work together for item delivery.  It could also work for "delayed" trading items directly.  Send an item to the buyer with a designated price, they choose to pay and the item is released and plat/trade items gets sent to seller like escrow. 

While that is a possibility, it'd be much simpler to just use Warframe Market for all of your needs and wants instead. It already exists, after all. That means no need for development time. Besides, I've personally SEEN the effect Auction Houses tend to have on their communities, and it's.... Not great most of the time. :(

[PublikDomain]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Since what you describe would hold the currency hostage all the way from the bid up to the point where the seller physically manually accepts one of the bids in the pool.

That's literally how it works everywhere else? Other games "hold the currency hostage" all the way from the bid up to the point where the auction ends. Someone puts a 3-day auction for the Sword of Greatness. You bid 60gp. No one else bids. Your currency is "held hostage" until the auction ends 3 days later. And if you change your mind and cancel your bid, you get all your stuff back right away. It's the same. 🤦‍♀️

Or do the games you're playing let you make a bid and then run off and spend that money on something else at the same time? lol

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

If there is a sellers request it is effectively the buyout.

The advertised offer has a suggested bid, but nothing about that has to be forced. There is no buyout. There is no "minimum price" either. It doesn't even need to include any plat. Bidders could put in whatever they wanted. Plat, Relics, parts, Rivens, anything. And while you could perfectly meet the offer's suggested bid, this wouldn't cause anything to happen. The seller still needs to accept the bid. There is no instant buyout.

Remember: you guys are the ones pissing and moaning about how terrible it would be to have instant buyouts and complete automation. And here's an option that has neither yet  you're still pissing and moaning.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Then it isnt an AH, since it cant achieve that specific thing, beacause it isnt allowed to.

Even though it achieves everything else? It's not an auction house because it has too many button presses for your tastes? That's it? This is so worthlessly pedantic.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

On 2024-06-01 at 8:27 AM, _Anise_ said:

your critique can be applied to selling in the trade channels the difference is you have to spam "want to sell" *item* potentially for hour without getting anyone interested and you can't really post your entire inventory in chat

It would be worse than it is now. 

Just because you arent allowed to sell something below X price doesn't mean people are gonna be lining up to buy at X price.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

On 2024-05-31 at 12:15 PM, PublikDomain said:

Which you say because you're still stuck with this false belief that I'm talking about the same "actual" auction house you guys keep alluding to, even though I've told you explicitly over and over again that I'm not. A different system than the one you guys have such a fearful hate-boner for can serve as this game's version of an auction house.

I also don't see why moving the speed limit sign from one part of the highway to another would change much. You really think there'd be a ten-fold increase in trade? That we'd suddenly have another 200,000-300,000 people standing around in a revamped Maroo's Bazaar looking at their trade windows?

Which could be preserved through simple mechanics. You just gotta have a little imagination, and maybe take a second to stop and untwist your undies. Here, simple version. I'll make this really easy to follow:
 

  Hide contents

You know how you can go to Maroo's Bazaar and pick items for sale? Well maybe you don't, who even uses that place? It looks like this:

And then other people can see items you're selling:

But this is hard to see, and it doesn't let anyone know what I'm looking to get. Is this guy selling a Latron Wraith set for a reasonable price? Do they want triple the going rate? Do they want to trade it for a Dera Vandal set? No one knows!

Say I want to sell my Prime set for some plat. I already know what I want the other guy's side of the trade window to look like. So what if I could fill it in ahead of time? Then we could skip the awkward "price?" "offer?" back and forth and just get on with it. Anyone that agrees to this trade could just walk up and accept it. It could look like this:

Now you can go to the Bazaar and see what people actually want for their trades! How convenient!

But floating this over people's heads makes it hard to tell what's available... What if you could ask Maroo for the list of people trading here? 🤔

And hey, instead of hoping you landed on a hot instance maybe these bids could be shared for everyone in the Bazaar? How convenient! Now it's easier to tell what's for sale, just like you can already do on warframe.market!

But I don't want to stand around in Maroo's Bazaar all day... I want to play! What if I could hand Maroo my items and pay her a little listing fee so she can show my offer for a few days and listen to bids for me?

If I'm looking to buy something, when I find an offer I like I could then place a bid - or even counter-bid! Like yeah, I know they want plat and bananas, but maybe a bid with just plat would do? So I hand Maroo my plat and pay her the bidding fee and go on my merry way.

Maybe I can see that someone else has already met the seller's request, but if I really want the item I can throw in a few Relics or something to make my bid that little bit more attractive!

When I as the seller come back I can see if there are any bids I like. If there are, I can accept them.

And since Maroo is already holding all of our items and we've all already agreed to the trade, she can wrap up the actual trade part for us! I'm already there, so Maroo could hand me my stuff right away, and the buyer and other failed bidders can get their stuff whenever they come back to visit.

Now this probably isn't the exact specific "real" auction house y'all are so petrified of, but like I keep saying it doesn't need to be!

You still need to be online to list items and place bids.

Nowhere does this have to show offline players' offers - though it'd be pretty convenient if it did.

You still have to travel somewhere to engage in trade.

You still have to put items in the trade window and press OK.

Yourth also have to travel somewhere to pick up your items.

There still aren't instant buyouts. It's not even considered!

There's still room for haggling. It's even encouraged!

This can all be hooked up with things like daily trade limits to slow it down even further.

imagination

Just a searchable, bidding-only actual auction house where there's some built-in back-and-forth and slowness. Would this cripple the economy? Throw us into the dark ages? You'd never make plat again? If warframe.market's massive proliferation hasn't, why would this?

"But just use your imagination". 

 

This is starting to feel like arguing with a pile of sand. I dont know how to make this any simpler. 

There are X number of any given item that exist in game at any given time.

X % of that number, are not going to be available at any given time because of people not being online, not looking at trade chat or wf market, etc.

"Supply and demand" is a thing that exists.

If you add some new way to increase the % of any given item actually available at any given time you are increasing the supply. Period. 

"But im not asking for a real auction house" "but but but" but nothing its all irrelevant because you just keep wishing you can dance around this fact and you cant. 

If youre really here saying "there should just be a (something completely different) then why are we even having this conversation in an "auction house" thread. Go make your own thread and we can discuss why this is still a terrible idea there.

But even if:

>no offline trading 

>no "set it and forget it" afk posts you have to actively keep posting similar to now

>the only real difference is now its a searchable list 

That would still crater prices and that would still result in players having to grind MORE to make the same amount of plat.

 

"If something is okay why isnt something else okay" is a fallacious argument. Something existing doesnt mean something else is justified. 

"The death penalty is already legal so why not just let cops execute people on the side of the road whenever they feel like it".

[PublikDomain]

12 hours ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

"Supply and demand" is a thing that exists.

If trade were more accessible to more people ingame then yes, I'm sure supply would increase. But why wouldn't demand? More people trading = more people selling and more people buying. It's "supply and demand", after all. Why do you ignore that part? There are also systems that already exist to manage that supply and demand. Baro consumes excess Prime parts, the Vault cuts off new supply, Resurgence brings the supply back, daily trades limit the transfer of goods, etc. This is why, despite tens of thousands of people already actively trading on warframe.market at any given time, the market still has not crashed.

12 hours ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

"If something is okay why isnt something else okay" is a fallacious argument.

So now providing evidence to back up your claim is... fallacious? Okie dokie.

12 hours ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

But even if:

>no offline trading 

>no "set it and forget it" afk posts you have to actively keep posting similar to now

>the only real difference is now its a searchable list 

That would still crater prices and that would still result in players having to grind MORE to make the same amount of plat.

Yes, the only real difference is that it's a searchable list. And if you will kindly take note, the economy's searchability has already been improved. And what has happened?

Did DE adding filters to trade chat to make it more searchable crater prices? No.

Did warframe.market providing a searchable list crater prices? No.

Edit: Come to think of it, here's a searchable list right here on the forums: https://forums.warframe.com/forum/180-trading-post/. Has this cratered prices? No!

So why would a searchable list crater prices if improved searchability has never cratered prices in the past? I think this is a very fair question.

12 hours ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

"But im not asking for a real auction house" "but but but" but nothing its all irrelevant because you just keep wishing you can dance around this fact and you cant. 

If youre really here saying "there should just be a (something completely different) then why are we even having this conversation in an "auction house" thread. Go make your own thread and we can discuss why this is still a terrible idea there.

Well it goes like this: someone suggested something. A lot of you got very upset about this. Doom! Gloom! Gamer rage! So I suggested an alternative. Isn't that how a conversation works? A little back and forth, a constructive sharing of ideas? But instead of actually thinking about alternatives, some of you seem more interested in complaining that someone would dare to suggest an alternative in the first place.

And I'm not dancing around anything. I'd love to talk about an auction house! And I have been. You guys are the ones getting mad about definitions and what makes a "real" auction house and whatever. I'm still not sure what you'd instead prefer I call a place where people can put items up for auction and place bids on those items, but Sneaky seems to think this is a "trade board" for whatever that's worth. I'd prefer to just call it an auction house and move on with my life. 🤷‍♀️

Edited June 3 by PublikDomain

[SneakyErvin]

23 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

That's literally how it works everywhere else? Other games "hold the currency hostage" all the way from the bid up to the point where the auction ends. Someone puts a 3-day auction for the Sword of Greatness. You bid 60gp. No one else bids. Your currency is "held hostage" until the auction ends 3 days later. And if you change your mind and cancel your bid, you get all your stuff back right away. It's the same. 🤦‍♀️

Or do the games you're playing let you make a bid and then run off and spend that money on something else at the same time? lol

No, that is not what you described in your idea, the idea I talked about. In your idea several people can bid on an item and then the buyer decides which bid he picks at the end. That is you who presented that idea. Also, you cannot cancel bids in an AH system, bids are binding.

23 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

The advertised offer has a suggested bid, but nothing about that has to be forced. There is no buyout. There is no "minimum price" either. It doesn't even need to include any plat. Bidders could put in whatever they wanted. Plat, Relics, parts, Rivens, anything. And while you could perfectly meet the offer's suggested bid, this wouldn't cause anything to happen. The seller still needs to accept the bid. There is no instant buyout.

Remember: you guys are the ones pissing and moaning about how terrible it would be to have instant buyouts and complete automation. And here's an option that has neither yet  you're still pissing and moaning.

Yeah... so not an AH then. Since in the end it is up to the seller to make the decision which bid or trade he likes most. Which again would also hold the currency hostage until the seller is arsed to complete the deal. It would also be terrible for buyers who are trying to obtain items they need in the moment, like BPs that just wont drop for them etc. I wouldnt use the system, since I'd have to wait until the next day probably to see if I got the item or not. And it wouldnt incentivice me to keep farming for the item during the bid period either. So a system that would really only benefit the seller, since he could milk as much as possible without doing much, with no real QoL for buyers.

23 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Even though it achieves everything else? It's not an auction house because it has too many button presses for your tastes? That's it? This is so worthlessly pedantic.

What "everything else" do you refer to? It practically does nothing, while an AH does practically everything.

[-ShadowRadiance-]

On 2024-05-17 at 3:41 PM, Psianide73 said:

I've never found it clunky. It takes a few steps, but trades are usually completed in under a minute. 

Ive spent -to much-plat through trades. 

Rarely have any issues.

[PublikDomain]

37 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

It would also be terrible for buyers who are trying to obtain items they need in the moment, like BPs that just wont drop for them etc. I wouldnt use the system, since I'd have to wait until the next day probably to see if I got the item or not. And it wouldnt incentivice me to keep farming for the item during the bid period either.

So keep using trade chat.

[Eternal_Phenix_Prime]

On 2024-05-17 at 7:29 AM, PaladinMaximus1 said:

Along with that, maybe a Tenno auction house to post items for sell/trade?  The 2 systems could easily work together for item delivery.  It could also work for "delayed" trading items directly.  Send an item to the buyer with a designated price, they choose to pay and the item is released and plat/trade items gets sent to seller like escrow. 

Horrible idea, you'll literally destroy the game's economy with such a feature. The closest we have at the moment is the fan site "warframe.market" for setting up trades. When listing an item it is common practice to undercut the next guy (who's online) by 1 platinum for a quick sale.

Having an in game auction house would essentially be like having every seller online 24/7 & being a part of the game itself, will see far more use than warframe.market
Competition to be the cheapest offering will be at an all time high (essentially the entire player base), driving prices so far down that selling items for plat won't even be worth doing anymore.

Edited June 4 by Eternal_Phenix_Prime

[SneakyErvin]

20 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

So keep using trade chat.

What would then be the point of adding something if it doesnt improve what is already there?

[PublikDomain]

6 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

What would then be the point of adding something if it doesnt improve what is already there?

Because there are other people than you who trade? If you don't see the value in it... ok? So don't use it. Things can be improved for people who aren't you. Why do I always have to explain this concept to you?

[SneakyErvin]

19 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Because there are other people than you who trade? If you don't see the value in it... ok? So don't use it. Things can be improved for people who aren't you. Why do I always have to explain this concept to you?

Or they could do changes that would benefit everyone while also not pushing it mostly into the hands of the sellers. Like you know, just implement the market setup into the game for easier access. Since that wouldnt have a chance to #*!% up trading as much as an AH or what you propose.

[PublikDomain]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Like you know, just implement the market setup into the game for easier access.

Great, glad you finally agree with me.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

On 2024-06-03 at 9:57 AM, PublikDomain said:

So keep using trade chat.

if using trade chat is a drop in a bucket compared to a sea of passive posts that would be like trying to fish using a red solo cup, scooping a cup of water at a time and hoping you get something.

 

On 2024-06-02 at 11:53 PM, PublikDomain said:

If trade were more accessible to more people ingame then yes, I'm sure supply would increase. But why wouldn't demand? More people trading = more people selling and more people buying. It's "supply and demand", after all. Why do you ignore that part? There are also systems that already exist to manage that supply and demand. Baro consumes excess Prime parts, the Vault cuts off new supply, Resurgence brings the supply back, daily trades limit the transfer of goods, etc. This is why, despite tens of thousands of people already actively trading on warframe.market at any given time, the market still has not crashed.

So now providing evidence to back up your claim is... fallacious? Okie dokie.

Yes, the only real difference is that it's a searchable list. And if you will kindly take note, the economy's searchability has already been improved. And what has happened?

Did DE adding filters to trade chat to make it more searchable crater prices? No.

Did warframe.market providing a searchable list crater prices? No.

Edit: Come to think of it, here's a searchable list right here on the forums: https://forums.warframe.com/forum/180-trading-post/. Has this cratered prices? No!

So why would a searchable list crater prices if improved searchability has never cratered prices in the past? I think this is a very fair question.

Well it goes like this: someone suggested something. A lot of you got very upset about this. Doom! Gloom! Gamer rage! So I suggested an alternative. Isn't that how a conversation works? A little back and forth, a constructive sharing of ideas? But instead of actually thinking about alternatives, some of you seem more interested in complaining that someone would dare to suggest an alternative in the first place.

And I'm not dancing around anything. I'd love to talk about an auction house! And I have been. You guys are the ones getting mad about definitions and what makes a "real" auction house and whatever. I'm still not sure what you'd instead prefer I call a place where people can put items up for auction and place bids on those items, but Sneaky seems to think this is a "trade board" for whatever that's worth. I'd prefer to just call it an auction house and move on with my life. 🤷‍♀️

What you are dancing around, over and over again, is how increasing the % of an item that exists compared to how much of that item is actually "for sale" at any given time would affect prices.

"Why wouldn't demand increase"

Because nothing about any of this magically increases the amount of people who need to buy any given part. Buying is *already* easier than selling. And most of these threads are wanting offline, automated trading which would theoretically, but not in the real world, benefit the seller more than the buyer anyway. If i can afk sell an ember prime chassis im coming back to "free plat". If i can afk buy an ember prime chassis that does me no good considering i have to be online to even do anything with it. 

and even if the amount of buyers did increase, somehow, "because more people are using it" or whatever you wanna tell me, once you have an ember prime chassis you dont need more. Thats it. You're done. You're out of the market.

Every time you've either just dismissed it as "doom and gloom", "wah i cant handle competition", or pretended that some trivial attempt at compromise is gonna completely negate that. 

I still dont know why youre arguing with people in the 10 millionth "auction house thread" but yet claiming what you want isnt actually an auction house. 

"Well i dont see any alternatives".

The alternative is we leave trade chat alone. Is it perfect? No. But its a reasonable balance as is. Dont make this a knee jerk "well we HAVE TO DO SOMETHING?1!!!1".

"

"So why would a searchable list crater prices if improved searchability has never cratered prices in the past? I think this is a very fair question"

warframe.market has *already* drove down prices. First of all. Second and more importantly this is either a willfully ignorant or willfully dishonest comparison.

Theres a big, big difference between a searchable list on a third party, external website that you have to go out of your way to sign up for, that you have to use another device or window to even use, that only a subset of the community even bothers with, vs having that be the default in game for everyone.

>every ember prime chassis is the same as every other ember prime chassis

>if someone undercuts you by even literally 1p theres no reason to buy from you

>all of a sudden instead of what we have now theres what, a list of a hundred or more listings stacked on top of eachother sorted by price?

You cant make an apples to oranges comparison like that, claim thats "proof" of jack squat, then say "nuh uh la la la i cant here you" when called out on it, ignore every difference between the two, and act like you "win".q

While im at this, "but baro exists! But vaults exist!". Its already priced in to the current system pal. 

And if youre NOT actually calling for offline trading, automated trades, "set it and forget about it instead of having to repost" etc and alllll youre really asking for is a freaking list structure then idk why youre so adamant about arguing about this in what is essentially the wrong thread. Which brings me to the next point.

 

Pointing out bad ideas are bad ideas =/= mad so you can go ahead and quit with the "everyone is mad but me" projection.

On 2024-06-04 at 5:59 AM, SneakyErvin said:

What would then be the point of adding something if it doesnt improve what is already there?

"no you dont understand but muh feelings. I FEEL LIKE it would be an improvement logic be damned"

23 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Because there are other people than you who trade? If you don't see the value in it... ok? So don't use it. Things can be improved for people who aren't you. Why do I always have to explain this concept to you?

Features being added or not added to trade chat affect everyone.

2 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Great, glad you finally agree with me.

This is facepalm worthy.

[PublikDomain]

9 hours ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

if using trade chat is a drop in a bucket compared to a sea of passive posts that would be like trying to fish using a red solo cup, scooping a cup of water at a time and hoping you get something.

I'm not sure what you're saying here - isn't trade chat already like this? Throwing your offer out into the sea of scrolling messages in the hopes you get something to bite? Trade chat is already a drop in the bucket. If some luddite wants to stick to trade chat because they don't see the value in being able to search for trades, let em. That's no reason everyone else should have to settle for less.

9 hours ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Because nothing about any of this magically increases the amount of people who need to buy any given part.

Ok? Improving ingame trade tools isn't magically increasing the total number of available parts either. Both supply and demand can be increased by having more total buyers or more total items to trade, which improved ingame trade tools doesn't do to either, but both can also be increased by making selling and buying more accessible. You already seem to understand that making ingame trade more accessible would increase the number of people who are accessing it to sell things, now apply that same logic to the number of people who would access it to buy things.

9 hours ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

and even if the amount of buyers did increase, somehow, "because more people are using it" or whatever you wanna tell me, once you have an ember prime chassis you dont need more. Thats it. You're done. You're out of the market.

And yet this "issue" already exists and has always existed with trade as it already exists, and is entirely unchanged by the presence or absence of a search bar. Once you have Ember Prime you bought off of trade chat you're already out of the market. Why do you seem to act like this is some new thing that would suddenly change? This is already what happens right now and - again - systems already exist to consume this excess supply, limit production of new supply, and limit how quickly that supply moves around. The answers to your concerns already exist. And you seem to understand this? Like you yourself say, Baro's already priced into the current system. So why couldn't he be priced into an updated system? Use that imagination, buddy.

9 hours ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

I still dont know why youre arguing with people in the 10 millionth "auction house thread" but yet claiming what you want isnt actually an auction house. 

I want exactly what I've said I want. You guys are the ones whining about how this isn't actually an auction house. I don't care what you want to call it or even understand why any of you think what it's called means anything. I want improved ingame trade. Call that whatever you want.

And the reason I'm still here saying ingame trade should be improved is simply because people dooming and glooming over every minuscule thing to try and protect their little walled scam garden bothers me on a personal level. That's really all it is. Trade chat is a cesspool and the fewer unknowing people that fall for it the better.

9 hours ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

warframe.market has *already* drove down prices. First of all. Second and more importantly this is either a willfully ignorant or willfully dishonest comparison.

And yet prices are stable?

Wolf Sledge:

Nova Prime:

Mesa Prime:

Etc.

Nice, flat, stable prices. Race to the bottom? Nope. Continuous crash? Nope. Doom? Nope. Gloom? Nope.

Instead, the reason "prices have dropped" is because DE themselves are messing with the supply. Consider Melee Duplicate:

Now what possibly could have happened March 25th through April 7th? Did DE implement a new search bar? Nope. Did more people suddenly start trading? Nope. What happened? DE shared news of new drop sources and drop rates and the market shifted for the upcoming new supply. It's not warframe.market's fault that prices dropped, it's DE's! The reason you can't sell Ember for >1,300p anymore? It ain't that we discovered a new search bar, my guy! It was DE unvaulting her and handing her out again. DE manipulating supply is what causes prices to change, and this impacts prices far more than anything trade improvements have ever done, but you aren't complaining about that are you? Probably because "DE shouldn't unvault Ember so I can keep being the only one that can sell her" is so obviously scummy. "DE shouldn't improve trade so I an keep selling things for more than they're worth to people who don't know better" is scummy too, it's just being hidden behind fearmongering about muh economy.

9 hours ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Theres a big, big difference between a searchable list on a third party, external website that you have to go out of your way to sign up for, that you have to use another device or window to even use, that only a subset of the community even bothers with, vs having that be the default in game for everyone.

Only a subset, huh?

Looks like quite a large subset to me! Whether you like it or not, warframe.market is already the default method of trade. The only reason to use trade chat is to rip off suckers who don't know any better.

Also you don't have to sign up for anything. You can search for prices and buy items off warframe.market without any account whatsoever. Which is probably why so many people use it!

Edited June 6 by PublikDomain

[OneOmniverse]

On 2024-05-17 at 8:57 AM, Waeleto said:

+1

Current trading system is just a time waste 

well true ,ehh not sure they really wanna do anything about it tbh

[SneakyErvin]

23 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Great, glad you finally agree with me.

I guess you havent kept up at all with what has been said if you think "finally". Since I've always been of the idea that implementing the market within the game would work.

19 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Only a subset, huh?

Looks like quite a large subset to me! Whether you like it or not, warframe.market is already the default method of trade. The only reason to use trade chat is to rip off suckers who don't know any better.

Also you don't have to sign up for anything. You can search for prices and buy items off warframe.market without any account whatsoever. Which is probably why so many people use it!

That is still small activity in comparison. Since again you are missing a large part of the PC population and all consoles (aside from switch) with those numbers. That said, adding market to the game would not have near the same impact as adding an automated system since the online requirement to trade and the manual searching for buyers and sellers would still exsist.

So it is slightly overdramatic to think prices would change massively by just adding warframe.market as a default system to the game. The issue comes when things get automated and online requirements are removed, since suddenly instead of having 50% of the concurrent number trading, you'd have traders that exceed several upon serveral hundred percent of the concurrent players. Which would just be unhealthy trade competition in a game with itemization like WF.

We are probably looking at 1/3 of the total concurrent playerbase active on warframe.market if we go by the screenshots you provided.

[Voltage]

21 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

The only reason to use trade chat is to rip off suckers who don't know any better.

Which is honestly fine. We don't live in an ideal world. I don't mind saying this as a hot take, but I'm glad DE has planted themselves on keeping trading the way it is.

I like making my hundreds of Platinum off maxed mods and individual prime sets lol. I also don't feel any obligation to support the idea of a pro-new-player trading system when we're in a landscape where you either take advantage of how things are or fall behind the curve. 

I still respect people for having their moral preferences on this topic, but I rather just make use of what we have and appreciate that it's an opportunist/profiteering driven system. 

Trading is honestly one of the few end-game activities the game offers with a substantial reward for the more experienced players.

Edited June 6 by Voltage

[PublikDomain]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

We are probably looking at 1/3 of the total concurrent playerbase active on warframe.market if we go by the screenshots you provided.

And 1 in 3 is a lot, lol. Here it is visually based off Borris' most recent platform estimates with this supposed "large part of the PC population" included:

🙄

47 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Which is honestly fine. We don't live in an ideal world. I don't mind saying this as a hot take, but I'm glad DE has planted themselves on keeping trading the way it is.

I like making my hundreds of Platinum off maxed mods and individual prime sets lol. I also don't feel any obligation to support the idea of a pro-new-player trading system when we're in a landscape where you either take advantage of how things are or fall behind the curve. 

I still respect people for having their moral preferences on this topic, but I rather just make use of what we have and appreciate that it's an opportunist/profiteering driven system. 

Trading is honestly one of the few end-game activities the game offers with a substantial reward for the more experienced players.

I don't really know what to say to this... "I appreciate the profiteering" just strikes me as an odd thing to say out loud. Like yeah I'm sure if you're benefiting from taking advantage of less experienced players you'll appreciate it and not feel any obligation to support changing it, but it's really not that hard to put yourself in others shoes. If your opposition (or lack of support) to improving ingame trade is "I appreciate the profiteering", like... At least you're saying it out loud I guess?

Edited June 6 by PublikDomain

[Caerith]

I use warframe market and I support having an auction house.  Let people continue to do their trades in trade chat and 1:1 trades in warframe market, but give me the option to not get a hundred IMs the second I toggle to "online in game."  I don't care if I'm not optimizing my profit, I just want to play the game not be a stock broker.

[Caerith]

Oh but direct mail I could do without.  The two best decisions I ever made with my reddit account were:

1. Turning off private messages.
2. Deleting my reddit account.

I do not want my video games to have an inbox where I can log in to hundreds of bad opinions. 

If you want to be able to do a specific trade with a specific person, I'd suggest adding an "asynchronous trade" option to trading posts at dojos.  Set a trade, let them accept it within 7 days, voila. 

[Voltage]

1 hour ago, PublikDomain said:

I don't really know what to say to this... "I appreciate the profiteering" just strikes me as an odd thing to say out loud. Like yeah I'm sure if you're benefiting from taking advantage of less experienced players you'll appreciate it and not feel any obligation to support changing it, but it's really not that hard to put yourself in others shoes. If your opposition (or lack of support) to improving ingame trade is "I appreciate the profiteering", like... At least you're saying it out loud I guess?

I said it out loud because I felt there is value in that cold truth. I have been in the other shoes on multiple occasions. It's a learning experience. I didn't start out Warframe being on the winning side of a trade. You get there over time like anything else. This "ideal trading system" these threads aim to achieve also has its own downsides. 

If we had an auction house for even just Riven Mods, you'd have people abusing the way auctions work, and you'd be back at square one with taking issue on how some are advantaged individuals. That's just how this stuff goes. Keeping Warframe trading in the current fashion creates a good motivation to farm items to sell. I'd absolutely hate my time grinding for Platinum if I could only get the 50-100p a set you earn from the competitive race to the bottom that Relics enabled, especially with how prevalent AFK farming Aya has become. It also stings when you're old like me, and you're trading for a fraction of what you used to because everything's been devalued so heavily across the board.

The only thing worth using Platinum on for me at my stage of the game is 4 and 5 digit trades for specific Riven Mods, and the occasional Deluxe Skin or a consumable like Forma.

Edited June 6 by Voltage