Should I Know Anything Before Playing Story Quests Lorewise?

[TARINunit9]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

She is made for a specific purpose, a purpose that could not be known while the sentients were still in Tau

You're misreading the Ropalolyst monologue. Natah was born after war was declared, yes, but she was not born in the Sol System. She was born in Tau

[SneakyErvin]

22 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

You're misreading the Ropalolyst monologue. Natah was born after war was declared, yes, but she was not born in the Sol System. She was born in Tau

No misreading. I'm considering what we know from The Sacrifice too. When Natah is born they are deep in the war according to the events lined up by Ballas in The Sacrifice. It is far beyond a declaration at that point. When Natah is born the Orokin have tried atleast 3 ways to fight the sentients, likely 4 or more if we take Lephantis into account. With the latest attempt being most successful, which the sentients answer to by conceiving Natah to handle it covertly.

[TARINunit9]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

When Natah is born they are deep in the war according to the events lined up by Ballas in The Sacrifice

Yeah. Doesn't mean she was born in the Solar system. Hunhow spells it out bluntly: the Praghasa family all made the jump using the Void, Natah included

[SneakyErvin]

20 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Yeah. Doesn't mean she was born in the Solar system. Hunhow spells it out bluntly: the Praghasa family all made the jump using the Void, Natah included

He doesnt really spell it out at all. He implies some things but later quests and dialogs give more concrete retellings of what happened and when. Since we know that Natah wasnt just a sentient that got a job handed to her later, but a sentient created for that specific job from the start. If she was made in Tau it would also mean that the leaders of the sentients were not part of most of the war even since she is created so late given what she was created for.

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

He doesnt really spell it out at all

"We crossed the gap, wombs in ruin, to bring an end to this."

Not only does "we" imply "Hunhow and Natah (and more beyond)," but "wombs in ruin" fully confirms her birth HAD to happen in Tau

[SneakyErvin]

20 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

"We crossed the gap, wombs in ruin, to bring an end to this."

Not only does "we" imply "Hunhow and Natah (and more beyond)," but "wombs in ruin" fully confirms her birth HAD to happen in Tau

And we have info that comes after that quest that indicates otherwise. Ballas describes Hunhow specifically as a threat before the first frames are made, placing him in Sol. And since Natah was conceived for something happening much later it makes zero sense for her being born prior to crossing to Sol and prior to frames and frames+tenno.

What Hunhow says in Natah is very likely more done in order to sow mistrust and discord between Tenno and Natah. While the info coming from Ballas is a retelling to the point, since he has no reason to lie due to it being a message sent to someone who shares the history told. And I dont really think Natah is in a spot where he considers lying to the Tenno.

Then we can also consider Natah herself, that seem not to have her womb in ruin and be barren, since Ropey is claimed to be her flesh. And she's been stuck in the void for a crapload of time while in the reservoir. She also refers to ancient sentients when talking about the damage the void has on the sentients.

[TARINunit9]

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Ballas describes Hunhow specifically as a threat before the first frames are made, placing him in Sol.

Citation needed. I can find no lines from Ballas that do that

[TARINunit9]

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Then we can also consider Natah herself, that seem not to have her womb in ruin and be barren, since Ropey is claimed to be her flesh

Ropalolyst is probably an Amalgam. While there's no voice line identifying it as such, it has the same textures as the confirmed Amalgam enemies, who were genetically engineered by Alad V to have no Void weakness (direct quote: "Amalgams, with the weakness of neither.")

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

19 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Ropalolyst is probably an Amalgam. While there's no voice line identifying it as such, it has the same textures as the confirmed Amalgam enemies, who were genetically engineered by Alad V to have no Void weakness (direct quote: "Amalgams, with the weakness of neither.")

I believe it is an Amalgam. Born of her flesh could mean that Rope was the first, sentient engineered, Amalgam that was processed and birthed through Natah. We could assume this is why she is enslaved by Ballas and Erra: a mimic, able to form any sentient as she wishes, is also knowledgeable of the Tenno's plans, behaviors and actions, embedding all of those traits into all future sentients 2.0, the Amalgams. Brilliant move Ballas. 

The other issue is with the Lotus' hand being in possession of both Wally and the Drifter. Remember, Wally used the Lotus' hand during the handshake that created the tenno. That incident predates the Old War. In addition, the Lotus participated in the Old War, as an ally, after she was captured by the Orokin and reprogrammed to be "space mom 1.0". She was the recon spy for Hunhow. 

[TARINunit9]

4 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Remember, Wally used the Lotus' hand during the handshake that created the tenno. That incident predates the Old War.

This assumes Wally perceives time as linear phenomena like humans do. And I mean... he probably doesn't. But that's a spoiler OP hasn't gotten to yet

 

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

4 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

This assumes Wally perceives time as linear phenomena like humans do. And I mean... he probably doesn't. But that's a spoiler OP hasn't gotten to yet

 

Crap, I got so intrigued by you and Sneak's debate that I forgot about OP. Dang, my bad OP. 😂 

[SneakyErvin]

23 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Citation needed. I can find no lines from Ballas that do that

Ballas: "We cultured the Infestation, conceiving of a hybrid. Transformed, but only just. The 'Helminth' was created, born to yield these new warriors, worthy of battle against you. The great and terrible Hunhow. So Hunhow is very much there during the war and have made a name for himself prior to the creation of the tennoless OG warframes.

22 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Ropalolyst is probably an Amalgam. While there's no voice line identifying it as such, it has the same textures as the confirmed Amalgam enemies, who were genetically engineered by Alad V to have no Void weakness (direct quote: "Amalgams, with the weakness of neither.")

It's not if you listen to both Sallad and Natah. Sallad tells us it is placed there by the sentients to pressure him to work. Natah refers to it as "ancient". We've also known about this Lyst version ever since PoE. While everything regarding the Gas City amalgation experiements takes place later in the timeline.

22 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

The other issue is with the Lotus' hand being in possession of both Wally and the Drifter. Remember, Wally used the Lotus' hand during the handshake that created the tenno. That incident predates the Old War. In addition, the Lotus participated in the Old War, as an ally, after she was captured by the Orokin and reprogrammed to be "space mom 1.0". She was the recon spy for Hunhow.

Spoiler

That is because the void is non-linear aswell as timeless. Her hand simply gets chop-chopped and goes through the void hole in the now, giving Wally access to it in order to use it in the past to set the events in motion.

The sentients are potentially their own downfall since they created Natah which led to the creation of the tenno. That is if the hand actually matters in the handshake or it was just for S#&$s and giggles.

edit: But thinking too much about that would make my head explode because of time crap.

 

Edited May 29 by SneakyErvin

[TARINunit9]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

So Hunhow is very much there during the war and have made a name for himself prior to the creation of the tennoless OG warframes

All this proves is that the protoframes (i.e. Kullervo) fought against Hunhow's Conculysts. It does NOT prove that Hunhow himself made the Solar Rail jump BEFORE giving birth to Natah. You simply have not proven that.

Remember Natah's line "and then the Golden Wrath came" -- it could have been the protoframes who made the jump from Pluto to Tau, and then Hunhow killed them. That's a possible event in the timeline

[SneakyErvin]

18 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

All this proves is that the protoframes (i.e. Kullervo) fought against Hunhow's Conculysts. It does NOT prove that Hunhow himself made the Solar Rail jump BEFORE giving birth to Natah. You simply have not proven that.

Remember Natah's line "and then the Golden Wrath came" -- it could have been the protoframes who made the jump from Pluto to Tau, and then Hunhow killed them. That's a possible event in the timeline

If they fought his Conculysts then he was also there. Since we know what type of sentient Hunhow was/is, he is a massive "carrier" sentient, so whatever lysts belong to him are carried by him to war. We can see how it works while inside Murex ships for instance. And how the Orokin would know of Hunhow without his personal presence is far fetched. Or do you think Hunhow had his own "Made in Taiwan" stamp attached to the lysts?

We dont know exactly what the golden wrath is. It can either refer to something Orokin done against the sentient, but can also be the state of mind that overtook the sentients after them beginning to change and grow emotions like creativity, pride and the will to live. The sentients did in the end feel mistreated and held anger against the Orokin and wanted to stop them from destroying more of the galaxy. They wanted to punish them, so it wouldnt be strange if she refers to it as the Golden Wrath, since wrath is an emotional state often connected with punishment for something someone has done wrong to you. The sentient having been created to slave for the Orokin to build a new world for them to end up destroying as they seek more and more power and riches. While also having planned for the eventual death of those slaves.

[drnlmza]

On 2024-05-28 at 1:49 PM, SneakyErvin said:

And we have info that comes after that quest that indicates otherwise. Ballas describes Hunhow specifically as a threat before the first frames are made, placing him in Sol.

That doesn't place Hunhow in Sol - we have multiple bits of lore that show that the Old War was fought on both sides of the connection to Tau. The Mag Prime codex entry specifically describes jumping to another system from Outer Terminus with a Tenno warframe on board. That such attacks were not expected to go well for the Orokin Empire (see said codex entry) would be more than enough to establish Hunhow as a serious threat before he traveled to Sol.

Various bits of quest dialog (avoiding specifics because of the OP) places destroying the connection between the systems quite late in the Old War. 

 

[SneakyErvin]

21 hours ago, drnlmza said:

That doesn't place Hunhow in Sol - we have multiple bits of lore that show that the Old War was fought on both sides of the connection to Tau. The Mag Prime codex entry specifically describes jumping to another system from Outer Terminus with a Tenno warframe on board. That such attacks were not expected to go well for the Orokin Empire (see said codex entry) would be more than enough to establish Hunhow as a serious threat before he traveled to Sol.

Various bits of quest dialog (avoiding specifics because of the OP) places destroying the connection between the systems quite late in the Old War. 

 

Yeah it was fought on both sides, but Hunhow was a main threat. There is no reason why the sentients wouldnt have attacked in force to start with. Hunhow isnt just the avarage general individual, he is a key part of the sentient warmachine since he is a fortress, a ship, a factory and so on. Whole armies are inside him and rely on him to mobilize those forces. Just as Praghasa, whom had another purpose aswell by being a literal weapon.