Hang on, does mean keep?

[_Eclips3_]

So I saw a post from 26th of April saying "Our next update, Jade Shadows, gives you full control of The Stalker as a new protagonist during a dramatic cinematic Quest — diving directly into a tragic backstory that must be experienced to be believed. Along the way you’ll unveil the 57th Warframe, Jade, and discover both her surprising powers and connection to the legacy of the Tenno."

Since it explicitly says during a cinematic quest, I highly doubt we get to play as him after. Any guesses?

Edited May 26 by _Eclips3_

[Cram_Duahcim]

The best outcome could be they give us Stalker access as a reward once we complete the quest, and they just haven't said anything.

But they probably won't.

[_Eclips3_]

3 minutes ago, Cram_Duahcim said:

The best outcome could be they give us Stalker access as a reward once we complete the quest, and they just haven't said anything.

But they probably won't.

Yeah, I'm guessing it's going to be similar to the playable grineer/corpus/dax story mode where you can play him in the story and then there might be a separate mode where you get to use him such as assassinating bosses.

[Chewarette]

At best we'll get Stalker specters I guess

[Birdframe_Prime]

Nah, we currently have him in Duviri and he's alright there, if you want him.

Themeatically, though, I doubt that DE will want to get rid of him as an antagonist in the game (stalking you for boss kills).

Why? Because Umbra was supposed to be Stalker.

Think through all of the events of The Sacrifice, and then tell me that they wouldn't make more sense as Stalker instead of a completely new frame. You don't get a more satisfying ending to a quest than literally ending Stalker's pain and gaining him in your arsenal, but DE didn't want to follow through with that, and so used it to port Excalibur Prime Umbra over to the rest of the world as plain Excalibur Umbra (with exactly the same stats as Excal Prime, better on original release).

So, for a Quest, where the content and enemy levels will be controlled by the missions you go on, Stalker would be a good choice for a playable frame. For giving him to us as a permanent unlock? Almost certainly not going to happen.

[ominumi]

4 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Nah, we currently have him in Duviri and he's alright there, if you want him.

Themeatically, though, I doubt that DE will want to get rid of him as an antagonist in the game (stalking you for boss kills).

Why? Because Umbra was supposed to be Stalker.

Think through all of the events of The Sacrifice, and then tell me that they wouldn't make more sense as Stalker instead of a completely new frame. You don't get a more satisfying ending to a quest than literally ending Stalker's pain and gaining him in your arsenal, but DE didn't want to follow through with that, and so used it to port Excalibur Prime Umbra over to the rest of the world as plain Excalibur Umbra (with exactly the same stats as Excal Prime, better on original release).

So, for a Quest, where the content and enemy levels will be controlled by the missions you go on, Stalker would be a good choice for a playable frame. For giving him to us as a permanent unlock? Almost certainly not going to happen.

This isn't true at all. DE showcase a new PvP mode. Stalker mode. Players get to use Stalker to hunt down other players during regular missions. As an 'Invader' style of gameplay. The community gave a huge backlash at the idea. Umbra is a Chinese Warframe cosmetics DE wane\ted a global release. They just decided to make a quest so everyone can get the cosmetic. Then shape that quest to fit DE narrative. 

[_Eclips3_]

15 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Nah, we currently have him in Duviri and he's alright there, if you want him.

Themeatically, though, I doubt that DE will want to get rid of him as an antagonist in the game (stalking you for boss kills).

Why? Because Umbra was supposed to be Stalker.

Think through all of the events of The Sacrifice, and then tell me that they wouldn't make more sense as Stalker instead of a completely new frame. You don't get a more satisfying ending to a quest than literally ending Stalker's pain and gaining him in your arsenal, but DE didn't want to follow through with that, and so used it to port Excalibur Prime Umbra over to the rest of the world as plain Excalibur Umbra (with exactly the same stats as Excal Prime, better on original release).

So, for a Quest, where the content and enemy levels will be controlled by the missions you go on, Stalker would be a good choice for a playable frame. For giving him to us as a permanent unlock? Almost certainly not going to happen.

That's a point, why would they add his personal mode like Khal if we can use him in Duviri. And true, it would be a bit dumb if Stalker hunted himself in the game, but they can easily fix that by adding a voice line as an easter egg like "You stole my super suit" or something when he is about to spawn in. and use eternalism as an excuse like they do for everything else.

5 minutes ago, ominumi said:

This isn't true at all. DE showcase a new PvP mode. Stalker mode. Players get to use Stalker to hunt down other players during regular missions. As an 'Invader' style of gameplay. The community gave a huge backlash at the idea. Umbra is a Chinese Warframe cosmetics DE wane\ted a global release. They just decided to make a quest so everyone can get the cosmetic. Then shape that quest to fit DE narrative. 

Would love if DE just released Stalker mode any way and just said "deal with it" on behalf of the people like me who actually like the idea.

Edited May 26 by _Eclips3_

[C11H22O1]

Just looks like you'll play as him for the quest or at least parts of it, don't think we'll get him

[zThulsaDoomz]

14 minutes ago, _Eclips3_ said:

Would love if DE just released Stalker mode any way and just said "deal with it" on behalf of the people like me who actually like the idea.

This would be an extremely bad idea on DE's end, but the tears would be absolutely hilarious as a result ngl

[Raarsi]

1 hour ago, _Eclips3_ said:

Would love if DE just released Stalker mode any way and just said "deal with it" on behalf of the people like me who actually like the idea.

If only they could afford the overall backlash that would come from it.  Too few players for the idea than there are those who think that whoever is for that idea needs to go play something else.

As for the OP's notion of keeping Stalker, I'm not sure how I feel about it.  He's basically a flimsier Kullervo with invis and a better version of Nyx's Absorb (at least in Duviri).

Edited May 26 by Raarsi

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Why? Because Umbra was supposed to be Stalker.

Think through all of the events of The Sacrifice, and then tell me that they wouldn't make more sense as Stalker instead of a completely new frame. You don't get a more satisfying ending to a quest than literally ending Stalker's pain and gaining him in your arsenal, but DE didn't want to follow through with that, and so used it to port Excalibur Prime Umbra over to the rest of the world as plain Excalibur Umbra (with exactly the same stats as Excal Prime, better on original release).

Well the simplest is that it directly contradicts existing lore, which remained unchanged right up until the Sacrifice.

A lot of really old lore doesn't neatly fit to be sure - for example, the Zariman kids burn someone's face and it's implied that they covered it up by claiming it was a military operatation in the Ember Prime codex entry. This can be made to fit, but it's not quite as neat with the current lore. And yet, most of it still does fit, with a bit of work. Given that we know that there were 'Warframe uprisings', we can retroactively put Rhino Prime's Codex entry as being trying to make a new frame during that period. Is it a clean, easy, clear-cut thing? No, but it CAN work. Stalker's own Codex entry has an example - it references the beat of the Naga Drum, which Hunhow also references. Hunhow references having some control over it, whilst Stalker's entry refers to it as ceremonial - which can be 'close enough' fit together with Hunhow giving Lotus the exact plan to use for the Tenno betrayal. I think there's a few bits and pieces where there's direct contradiction (the design of the Zariman, for example, is different in the Rell comic to the game), where we use the more recent lore, but broadly speaking.

Stalker's lore entry suggests that he was a 'Low Guardian'. Whilst we don't know what that is at the moment, the term 'low' implies that he was a pretty common as much soldier. The Sacrifice's story relies on the character involved being a high-ranking, prestigious Dax. It also relies on Umbra having been locked up ever since his creation, and Stalker's codex entry depicts him - and it's written in first person, it's Stalker - as being thoroughly, consciously and willingly loyal to the Orokin and witnessing the Tenno betrayal. Umbra's story relies on him directly trying to fight and kill a member of the ruling elite, granted for the act of treason and betrayal.

In so many words, whilst themes of pain and trauma are definitely both there, that's kind of a common thread for most of the cinematic quests with the Operator. There's very little to suggest that any of the plot threads and story beats were for Stalker specifically with how much you'd need to change the existing lore. I mean, maybe they'll completely rewrite the book for Jade Shadows - entirely possible, all things considered - but in terms of analysing what's already in the game (and the fact that most of the actual Umbra stuff is pretty secondary in terms of the overall plot beyond being a reason to hate Ballas)? I'm not convinced.

[MaxTunnerX]

1 hour ago, ominumi said:

This isn't true at all. DE showcase a new PvP mode. Stalker mode. Players get to use Stalker to hunt down other players during regular missions. As an 'Invader' style of gameplay. The community gave a huge backlash at the idea. Umbra is a Chinese Warframe cosmetics DE wane\ted a global release. They just decided to make a quest so everyone can get the cosmetic. Then shape that quest to fit DE narrative. 

Lmao this sounds so much fun, Reminds me of good old Dying Light. And, if handled the same way as in Dying Light (you can opt out of invasions if you dont like them), it would be problem free. But I guess it was another case of "my way or the highway" for the devs or I dunno what happened. Literally nobody would have had a problem with optional PVP and someone would even like it.

Edited May 26 by MaxTunnerX

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Think through all of the events of The Sacrifice, and then tell me that they wouldn't make more sense as Stalker instead of a completely new frame.

...yeah that wouldn't make more sense as Stalker

We already knew the basics of Stalker's backstory YEARS before Sacrifice and Umbra were on the docket: he's a survivor of the Outer Terminus Massacre who swore revenge on the Tenno. None of which really fits Excalibur Umbra at all, either in or out of lore

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

2 hours ago, _Eclips3_ said:

So I saw a post from 26th of April saying "Our next update, Jade Shadows, gives you full control of The Stalker as a new protagonist during a dramatic cinematic Quest — diving directly into a tragic backstory that must be experienced to be believed. Along the way you’ll unveil the 57th Warframe, Jade, and discover both her surprising powers and connection to the legacy of the Tenno."

Since it explicitly says during a cinematic quest, I highly doubt we get to play as him after. Any guesses?

Even if we don't play as him after, I'm just glad we finally got some backstory for the guy. Besides he's just a dumbed down version of other frames smashed together. I really don't see the appeal in NEEDING to play as the Stalker.

[(PSN)Unstar]

Most other characters we've played as we haven't been able to play as after.  Seems likely that the Stalker will be in the same boat.

[Drachnyn]

The stalker has a massive variety of possible abilities so I am against all logic holding out for kitframe.

[Stormandreas]

Please god no.

The entire point of stalker is that he is Autonomous. Us being able to control him (duviri was weird and bad enough), compeltely removes the entire intrigue he has as a character.

Crazy rouge murder frame with an unknown operator going rouge and rebelling? Whoops, looks like he isn't going rouge now, oopsy daisy.

[ominumi]

1 hour ago, MaxTunnerX said:

Lmao this sounds so much fun, Reminds me of good old Dying Light. And, if handled the same way as in Dying Light (you can opt out of invasions if you dont like them), it would be problem free. But I guess it was another case of "my way or the highway" for the devs or I dunno what happened. Literally nobody would have had a problem with optional PVP and someone would even like it.

DE showcase the player using Stalker can fail the mission against the four other players. It wasn't just PvP. It was pure griefing. And Stalker can come in any time during the mission. Imagine doing SP survival for one hour then a player invade as Stalker just to fail the mission. 90% of the playerbase would opt out. Making it totally pointless. 

[MaxTunnerX]

48 minutes ago, ominumi said:

DE showcase the player using Stalker can fail the mission against the four other players. It wasn't just PvP. It was pure griefing. And Stalker can come in any time during the mission. Imagine doing SP survival for one hour then a player invade as Stalker just to fail the mission. 90% of the playerbase would opt out. Making it totally pointless. 

10% players playing something is far from totally pointless. Try boosting usage of anything in the game by 10% and see how long it takes for it to get nerfed. Besides, if the stalker was as weak as the current one, nobody would fail missions and would 1 hit kill him just like they do with NPCs.

Edited May 26 by MaxTunnerX

[Cram_Duahcim]

4 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Nah, we currently have him in Duviri and he's alright there, if you want him.

He's actually not alright. The issue is Stalker is a preset build that offers no customization. Additionally he also has no access to Archon Shards.

So generally speaking, he's a weak choice if you have warframes also in the selection table that have these investments and why I advocate to gain access of the warframe (probably not going to happen but I will hope) 

4 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Themeatically, though, I doubt that DE will want to get rid of him as an antagonist in the game (stalking you for boss kills).

And that works right up until The New War. Remember, he becomes an ally in the New War along with Hunhow. I don't see this changing given the ending of TNW.

The narrative is now moving away from Hunhow being an enemy. Now it's basically TMITW and the Narmer. 

So Stalker being the Assassin that hunts us really doesn't fit anymore. It did pre NW but this Stalker Quest will be set post New War so I'm expecting to see Stalker step into a new role, retired or maybe even killed off.

1 hour ago, Stormandreas said:

The entire point of stalker is that he is Autonomous. Us being able to control him (duviri was weird and bad enough), compeltely removes the entire intrigue he has as a character.

I mean your also describing Umbra, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that we can gain control over him. 

Furthermore given how we acquire every warframe in the game, it's completely within reality that we can build a Stalker frame of our own, given that every single warframe is a clone of the origional (even Umbra is).

Now whether or not DE actually gives him to us is something different entirely (they probably wont) but they can do a number of things to satisfy fans.

1) Give us the Stalker helmet, universal for every warframe in the game. (I think this is going to be the reward for Belly of the Beast)

2) Make his loincloth an accessory for Umbra Excal, which also removes his Scarf.

3) Make his 4th ability in Duviri a Helminth ability.

I mean, who would say no to any of this? I think these are all good ways to accommodate and compromise.

 

 

Edited May 26 by Cram_Duahcim

[_Eclips3_]

3 minutes ago, Cram_Duahcim said:

He's actually not alright. The issue is Stalker is a preset build that offers no customization. Additionally he also has no access to Archon Shards.

So generally speaking, he's a weak choice if you have warframes also in the selection table that have these investments.

And that works right up until The New War. Remember, he becomes an ally in the New War along with Hunhow. I don't see this changing given the ending of TNW.

The narrative is now moving away from Hunhow being an enemy. Now it's basically TMITW and the Narmer. 

So Stalker being the Assassin that hunts us really doesn't fit anymore. It did pre NW but this Stalker Quest will be set post New War so I'm expecting to see Stalker step into a new role.

I mean your also describing Umbra, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that we can gain control over him. 

Furthermore given how we acquire every warframe in the game, it's completely within reality that we can build a Stalker frame of our own, given that every single warframe is a clone of the origional (even Umbra is).

Now whether or not DE actually gives him to us is something different entirely (they probably wont) but they can do a number of things to satisfy fans.

1) Give us the Stalker helmet, universal for every warframe in the game.

2) Make his loincloth an accessory for Umbra Excal, which also removes his Scarf.

3) Make his 4th ability in Duviri a Helminth ability.

I mean, who would say no to any of this?

 

 

Yeah, I'd be happy to at least just use his helmet on other frames to make my own version of acolytes. Obviously DE's version of fun is different to ours.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

doubt he'd be playable, though I doubt it matters much to DE if Stalker appears while you're playing as him, considering that we can still play through past events like Alad V's original boss fight on Jupiter (which is before he gets infested AND before Jovian Concord) and Ambulas' boss fight (which was introduced as an event that may or may not have resulted in the death of a character). a chronological order of events exists, but isn't strictly adhered to by any means, so why start now? wouldn't Stalker have stopped Hunting us after Second dream because of his sudden existential crisis? or after New War where he was literally allied with us? depending on his connection to Jade, it may not make sense for him to hunt the player if they are using Jade either, but no doubt the mechanic will still be in place to keep it fair.

ultimately all any of us can do is just wait and see what the quest and update as a whole will have in store. personally I'm just hoping for a flashback scene where we see the Orokin get massacred; it's the one moment in Warframe Lore I want to see the most!

[Cram_Duahcim]

50 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

doubt he'd be playable, though I doubt it matters much to DE if Stalker appears while you're playing as him, considering that we can still play through past events like Alad V's original boss fight on Jupiter (which is before he gets infested AND before Jovian Concord) and Ambulas' boss fight (which was introduced as an event that may or may not have resulted in the death of a character). a chronological order of events exists, but isn't strictly adhered to by any means, so why start now? wouldn't Stalker have stopped Hunting us after Second dream because of his sudden existential crisis? or after New War where he was literally allied with us? depending on his connection to Jade, it may not make sense for him to hunt the player if they are using Jade either, but no doubt the mechanic will still be in place to keep it fair.

ultimately all any of us can do is just wait and see what the quest and update as a whole will have in store. personally I'm just hoping for a flashback scene where we see the Orokin get massacred; it's the one moment in Warframe Lore I want to see the most!

I think Stalker is about to get his "Vegita redemption arc" and recieve a new narrative role that will completely change how we interact with him. 

I also believe that this won't be the last we see of him. Does anyone know what next year means for the game? 

I'll give you a hint, it's another milestone for the game 😉

Edited May 27 by Cram_Duahcim

[Birdframe_Prime]

18 hours ago, ominumi said:

This isn't true at all.

It's a strong theory.

You straight agreed with me that DE wanted a way to get the Chinese Excal Prime Umbra into the rest of the world, and this was their way of doing it. That doesn't disprove the theory we have that The Sacrifice was originally written to be Stalker's back story, and DE decided to change it to Excal Umbra so that they could both get the frame people wanted into the game, and also keep Stalker in his current role.

DE has teased Stalker Mode since 2013. I had a clan leader back in 2014 who had directly talked to a member of DE staff who was controlling the original Stalker (which was originally a DE player that would drop into missions because they hadn't gotten the AI to work well enough yet) who invaded him but didn't kill him. Stalker Mode has existed since the closed Beta.

There is a completely different reason, and we're not sure what it is, that DE haven't released Stalker Mode.

Rumours persist... but that's for later.

Next person:

14 hours ago, Cram_Duahcim said:

And that works right up until The New War. Remember, he becomes an ally in the New War along with Hunhow. I don't see this changing given the ending of TNW.

The narrative is now moving away from Hunhow being an enemy. Now it's basically TMITW and the Narmer. 

So Stalker being the Assassin that hunts us really doesn't fit anymore. It did pre NW but this Stalker Quest will be set post New War so I'm expecting to see Stalker step into a new role, retired or maybe even killed off.

This is a good take.

An important note is that The Sacrifice comes before The New War. Unlike Alad V's weird existence, I can see DE wanting to be consistent with Stalker, so not having Stalker suddenly join our side between The War Within and The New War was probably for the best, since it allowed the Stalker to be in the cut-scenes with Hunhow and the Drifter without there being some disconnect with the Operator having tamed Stalker.

If Jade Shadows is our Stalker Redemption, that's a different thing. Or even if Jade Shadows introduces Stalker Mode. Rumours persist, as I said.

I can just see the whole Stalker mechanic being something that DE doesn't want to do away with. It's the same for the G3 and Zanuka, they just... work as this cool little background thing.

 

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Plot twist will be that Jade is the Stalker. Quest will start as Stalker, as he stalks a girl at the Corpus Mall. They will become heavily infatuated as they stalk this new NPC, as they not she starts to do everything he likes in a romantic partner. She reads Yareli comics, likes to do Conservation at Orb Vallis in her spare time, has posters of Wisp, Ember and Mag on her bedroom wall, and she's even a "K-Drive Girl", plus she spends half her time at the Ludoplex Arcades!! She's just like me FR FR. 

Anyway one morning Stalker is on a tree outside her window as she is watching an old animated Dax cartoon series, and he falls out of the tree and hits their head. K-Drive girl hears the noise, and finds their unconscious body, and takes them instead to treat and look after. Stalker is in a coma, and they fall in love. Fast forward 200 years and she dies of untreatable space cancer and with her dying wishes, she says to the Stalker "You were always my angel", and then she fades away and Stalker torn with grief, undergoes a legally distinct Digivolution, where they sprout wings, gets a new colour palette, and all their weapons transform into angel versions. They rebrand them selves Jade, after their dead partners favourite K-Drive. 

I'm calling it now!