Blaze Artillery augment requiring Temporal Anchor feels forced

[(PSN)Unstar]

For context, I'm one of the Protea players who really loves Protea's time theme and is still trying to get Temporal Anchor to feel worthwhile.  That said, it's no secret that a significant subset of the community hasn't been able to find value in Temporal Anchor and considers it Protea's Helminth slot.

And given that context, it feels rough that the new Blaze Artillery augment requires Temporal Anchor to function.  I can only speak for myself, but it feels like it's trying to give players a reason to keep Temporal Anchor by explicitly coupling this Augment to an ability that it doesn't need to be paired with.

Why not simply give the augmented Turret its own duration?  It feels disappointing that this augment isn't just competing against every other mod that could occupy a mod slot, but that it's also simultaneously competing with the value that any Helminth ability could bring to Protea by being in her 4th slot.

Thanks for considering my feedback.

[PublikDomain]

It definitely feels more like a Temporal Anchor augment than a Blaze Artillery augment. It doesn't help that we already have a Temporal Anchor augment that already buffs Blaze Artillery. Do we really need a second one? That stacks?

All I want is an Blaze Artillery augment that converts Duration to Ammo. Instead of 3s, give it 9 shots and it'll persist until it runs out of ammo. Scale with Duration as before. Simple, clean, valuable.

[quxier]

3 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

And given that context, it feels rough that the new Blaze Artillery augment requires Temporal Anchor to function.  I can only speak for myself, but it feels like it's trying to give players a reason to keep Temporal Anchor by explicitly coupling this Augment to an ability that it doesn't need to be paired with.

That's exactly what they are doing. They are trying to give us synergies (or dependencies, I've not checked all augments). I'm all for synergies.

 

And protea at least have it easy. Xaku have more horrible augments. First, instead of fixing 3rd being horrible to cast (wheel abilities are slow to cast) they just give you 35-105% strength 15-45% efficiency on different cast of 3rd (according to wiki augment auto changes to next sub-ability). Or another augment that heals when 2nd kills enemy affected via 3/Gaze (armor strip) or 4th.

 

Are they good for augment or they should be built-in? That depends.

This one seems like it changes your gameplay (from spamming 2nd to having auto-turret following you ala xaku). On other hand recent just increase damage (by armor stripping) so I think it should be built in.

3 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

Why not simply give the augmented Turret its own duration?  It feels disappointing that this augment isn't just competing against every other mod that could occupy a mod slot, but that it's also simultaneously competing with the value that any Helminth ability could bring to Protea by being in her 4th slot.

That would honestly result in Xaku 2.0. No need for that.

3 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Do we really need a second one? That stacks?

I bet not. Imagine armor stripping & killing enemies without spamming. That would be too good, imho.

[Birdframe_Prime]

I would say that's because it is forced.

DE don't like it when the 4th or 'thematic' ability of a frame is the one consistently Helminth'd off. It makes them feel bad. They don't want to rework Temporal Anchor, or change it for something else, because as a concept it's absolutely fine. Especially because it can reset your Energy and other stats back to where they were.

It's just... that players find the rewind inconveniencing. Which is, ultimately, the failing of any Ability.

But that's the thing, having multiple Augments that require Temporal Anchor to be active to use is exactly how they're going to make you keep the ability.

Remember Chroma?

Why did DE put his Elemental switching button on his 1 instead of onto Elemental Ward?

It's because people would Helminth off his 1 for being absolutely useless. So DE gave it a function that everyone wanted... at least, everyone wanted on another ability... so that players wouldn't Helminth off his 1 anymore.

They didn't rework his 1, they didn't change it to be better, or swap it out for something better. They implemented Elemental Switching at long last, and put it on his 1 instead of his 2.

So to conclude:

It's not just forced, it's a pattern. DE don't like you using Helminth to get rid of one ability all the time. But they don't want to rework that ability so that it's good enough to not Helminth off. So to make you keep the ability DE force you to make the choice between having the nice things for the rest of the frame's kit, or having a better ability on the frame.

Edited June 1 by Birdframe_Prime

[Vortex]

I can only see the player being penalized when using this augment, can't even call it a band aid as it is just a bad trade.

Her 4 should be reworked instead, forcing me to return to the initial point just make my game play too stationary and boring.

Edited June 2 by Vortex

[Waeleto]

11 hours ago, quxier said:

That's exactly what they are doing. They are trying to give us synergies (or dependencies, I've not checked all augments). I'm all for synergies.

There is a difference between synergy and restriction, have they learned NOTHING from the horrible spot oberon is in right now because of his 2/4 "synergy" ? they already made a temporal anchor augment so why does an augment for her SECODN ability need the use of her FOURTH ? is the fact that an augment takes a mod slot not enough of a restriction ? 

[quxier]

2 hours ago, Waeleto said:

14 hours ago, quxier said:

That's exactly what they are doing. They are trying to give us synergies (or dependencies, I've not checked all augments). I'm all for synergies.

There is a difference between synergy and restriction, have they learned NOTHING from the horrible spot oberon is in right now because of his 2/4 "synergy" ? they already made a temporal anchor augment so why does an augment for her SECODN ability need the use of her FOURTH ? is the fact that an augment takes a mod slot not enough of a restriction ? 

I don't know about oberon nor his "synergy" so I cannot comment on that.

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by restriction. Maybe the same as I mean by dependency? By dependency I mean that frame (almost) cannot exist without another. In this case 2&4 of Protea can work on their own but are just better with each other (in some cases).

Augment based on such interaction isn't inherently too bad. I'm 50-50 on such cases. Sure, I would like standalone version for 4 (and 1-2 as well). Is taking mod slot enough? That honestly depends on augment. In this case if you can put armor-strip augment with future augment, you may armor strip automatically enemies around you (aka aura). That would be too overpowered imho.

14 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

DE don't like it when the 4th or 'thematic' ability of a frame is the one consistently Helminth'd off. It makes them feel bad. They don't want to rework Temporal Anchor, or change it for something else, because as a concept it's absolutely fine. Especially because it can reset your Energy and other stats back to where they were.

14 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

It's not just forced, it's a pattern. DE don't like you using Helminth to get rid of one ability all the time. But they don't want to rework that ability so that it's good enough to not Helminth off. So to make you keep the ability DE force you to make the choice between having the nice things for the rest of the frame's kit, or having a better ability on the frame.

But why not change aiblity to make them good enough rather than (or maybe with help of) "synergy augments"? Look at Grendel Nourish. They removed the wheel (merged sub abilities into 1). It's one of the best thing. It made me use that ability. Why not do something like this with Xaku/3? They instead of slapped some "spam all abilities but not the same".

Protea/4 is niche ability. One thing that is useful in general is that it "gives you energy". Outside energy you have rewind & explosion. Rewind is niche. Explosion is not very great as you have not too much control. To be honest I'm sure if it does any decent damage as it rewinds to quickly. Now if explosion where e.g at the start (gain damage from previous 4) OR some "damage path" where you "mark" something for small CC/damage then it would be better.

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, quxier said:

But why not change aiblity to make them good enough rather than (or maybe with help of) "synergy augments"?

Why ask me? I don't know why they do this any more than you do.

All I know is the facts of what they have done.

That's why I said it's a pattern.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 20 Stunden schrieb (PSN)Unstar:

For context, I'm one of the Protea players who really loves Protea's time theme and is still trying to get Temporal Anchor to feel worthwhile.  That said, it's no secret that a significant subset of the community hasn't been able to find value in Temporal Anchor and considers it Protea's Helminth slot.

And given that context, it feels rough that the new Blaze Artillery augment requires Temporal Anchor to function.  I can only speak for myself, but it feels like it's trying to give players a reason to keep Temporal Anchor by explicitly coupling this Augment to an ability that it doesn't need to be paired with.

Why not simply give the augmented Turret its own duration?  It feels disappointing that this augment isn't just competing against every other mod that could occupy a mod slot, but that it's also simultaneously competing with the value that any Helminth ability could bring to Protea by being in her 4th slot.

Thanks for considering my feedback.

Protea is unfortunately generally an extremely poorly designed Warframe. She might be OK for camping because she can survive extremely long periods of time with shield drones and 3rd and 4th skills that can take fatal damage.

However, her style of play is ultimately just about pointless 2nd skill spam like a bot.

It might be OK for console? But why do it for PC too???

Such a mindless style of play existed in Diablo3 (maybe it exists in Diablo4 too). Because there you had to keep skills with a 1 second duration on CD. And there wasn't just one such skill, but 4-5 skills at the same time. And each skill lasted 1-3 seconds and then had to be activated immediately......... All of this without tactics or thinking. And for hours too....?!?!?!

And that's no joke. Every normal player has written a macro for it.

That annoyed me with Khora too, when her 1st skill was still good. I played with her the whole time and simply moved her 1st skill to the right mouse button...

Conclusion: not only does her 4th skill need to be revised, but also her 2nd skill... and of course the augment mod is totally wrong... the augment mod should simply work without the 4th skill.