Warframes with Overguard-giving abilities (Dante, Styanax) can be really UNFUN to get matched with. Many players don't want Overguard. No sense of urgency.

[RyllusPurple]

Since this community complained until dante got nerfed, it would be more fitting, if dante didn't buff allies at all. Nothing for others.

[insanitybit]

11 hours ago, SprinKah said:

I do wonder if the upcomign Magnetic buff, which allows you to deal more dmg towards Overguard, will also affect warframes as well, can't quite remember whether you can get affected by statuses when u have OG on you tho i must admit.

 

It does give status immunity, but that's an interesting point about magnetic. It could still be that magnetic damage does more, since status immunity is separate from damage reduction/buff.

11 hours ago, SprinKah said:

On an unrelated note, I still dunno what this "iframe" term is haha, keep hearing about it but not quite sure what's up with that 

Invincibility frame. It's a pretty common term in various games, it basically means "a moment where you can take literally no damage from any source". At one point this translated directly to a number of 'frames' (the smallest divisible unit of time in a video game), but it's often just a term for "you are invincible". So when I say that Dante gets iframes during his 2 I just mean that for the period of time where Dante is casting 2 he receives no damage from any sources. Another example would be Dark Souls, where during a 'roll' you take no damage for a 'frames'.

[Nira]

16 hours ago, SprinKah said:

Tbh, these days I wish we'd just get like...idk, lvl 2000+ nonchalantly without having to do hours of Survival, maybe then it wouldn't be so bad.

Same here. They kinda went there ish with EDA, but even that's what lvl400? And limited to once a week.

Circuit scales pretty quickly but Decrees sort of make it trivial.

Idk, perhaps I'm just playing the wrong game, desiring myself as a player to be challenged in some way outside of the mod screen. 

[SprinKah]

14 hours ago, RyllusPurple said:

Since this community complained until dante got nerfed, it would be more fitting, if dante didn't buff allies at all. Nothing for others.

TBH, I wouldn't mind it if he's a selfish warframe, but that's just me. 

but well, let's be honest, not like I want them to ABOLISH the buffs, just...make it NOT overkill (10-20k per cast with regeneration is silly), or at least expire or something that would encourage them to actually KEEP UP the casts in a meaningful way, right now it feels like it's basically just a single-cast, subsequent casts just feel like for the hell of it, at least in the case of Dante and Styanax to a lesser extent (after a point). 

It's the best of both worlds. as far as nerfs go, I think that's reasonable.

 

Frankly, I wish they are more critical with balancing, it still baffles me to no end that stuff like the TORID still hasn't even got a Riven disposition reduction, while the Tenet Glaxion and Kuva Sobek and a bunch of other weapons are released with the lowest riven disposition possible. Among other things.

Edited June 13 by SprinKah

[LeonardBlyx]

TBH, I never had this "sense of urgency" in Warframe. Unless you play solely on premade parties, you'll have some kind of survivability integrated into your frame. It could be mods, arcanes, rolling guards, companions, invisibility etc. But whenever you play together with someone, there is always a chance that someone brings something that trivializes the content. There are many, many CC frames that can absolutely lock down an area (Vauban, Zephyr, Hydroid, Octavia etc.) frames that can shield the objective (Frost), frames that can give you 30k shield with status immunity, forced slash and heat procs on enemies (Nezha), frames that can kill enemies that you can't even see it on your radar (Saryn, Volt), frames that can reduce the damage you take by 90% (Citrine), frames that can buff your hp/regen up to the sky (Wisp, Oberon, Trinity) All of these frames trivializes content and when combined with whatever base tankiness you have, you become virtually immortal. For me, Dante adds nothing. The only problem with it is there are too many Dantes and overguard is a lot more visible buff than the others (DR, damage increase, death prevention, hp increase etc.) so it draws a lot more attention than the others. It is creating a visibility bias. 

30k overguard could be overkill for regular starchart, but anything is overkill for starchart, really. And for endless SP missions, 30k overguard is just one stray bullet that hits you.  

 

Quote

Frankly, I wish they are more critical with balancing, it still baffles me to no end that stuff like the TORID still hasn't even got a Riven disposition reduction, while the Tenet Glaxion and Kuva Sobek and a bunch of other weapons are released with the lowest riven disposition possible. Among other things.

A while ago, DE announced that they are going to release every future weapon, without exception, with the lowest disposition upon release, and then increase their disposition as needed. 

[SprinKah]

9 hours ago, LeonardBlyx said:

TBH, I never had this "sense of urgency" in Warframe. Unless you play solely on premade parties, you'll have some kind of survivability integrated into your frame. It could be mods, arcanes, rolling guards, companions, invisibility etc. But whenever you play together with someone, there is always a chance that someone brings something that trivializes the content. There are many, many CC frames that can absolutely lock down an area (Vauban, Zephyr, Hydroid, Octavia etc.) frames that can shield the objective (Frost), frames that can give you 30k shield with status immunity, forced slash and heat procs on enemies (Nezha), frames that can kill enemies that you can't even see it on your radar (Saryn, Volt), frames that can reduce the damage you take by 90% (Citrine), frames that can buff your hp/regen up to the sky (Wisp, Oberon, Trinity) All of these frames trivializes content and when combined with whatever base tankiness you have, you become virtually immortal. For me, Dante adds nothing. The only problem with it is there are too many Dantes and overguard is a lot more visible buff than the others (DR, damage increase, death prevention, hp increase etc.) so it draws a lot more attention than the others. It is creating a visibility bias. 

30k overguard could be overkill for regular starchart, but anything is overkill for starchart, really. And for endless SP missions, 30k overguard is just one stray bullet that hits you.  

"Sense of urgency" might be a bit of a stretch, it's more like....the game should at least be able to poke at you with a stick, agitating enough to still force you to move and put in a semblance of effort. Like you'd still need to run around, dodge and shoot enemies in order to not get pecked...but as things stand, getting 30k OG nonchalantly WITHOUT END just kinda takes all that away. That's the unfortunate thing that happened to SP Effervo max-eyes boss fight. 

And like I said, the main issue that I have isn't exactly the fact that warframes nowadays can be pretty bonkers....hell, I couldn't care less if Saryn can go about causing havoc, Citrine doign whatever she does, etc etc etc...I do have a bit of an issue with how Warframe is nowadays, but it is what it is....

My MAIN ISSUE with Dante/Styanax is the fact that teammates are GIVEN OVERGUARD INDISCRIMINATELY and there's nothing you can do about it. Like I could honestly care less if they were to just replinish and fill up their Overguard only for themselves....but most of the times, I honestly want nothing to do with it, I just want to play the game, largely in control of my shield and health. When it comes to other warframes and their abilities, alot of the times you can jsut IGNORE them or RUN AWAY, or wait for them to expire...but this isn't the case with Overguard. 

And like you said, 30k+ OG is pretty damn OVERKILL for general starchart stuff, even basic SP and Netracell adn etc.. and that it generally won't matter too much ONLY IF you do stuff like do hours of SP endless, so in that scenario, there isn't really a big difference between 30k+ vs 5k or so, and with how OG works now, having less OG isn't really detrimental (since it stops dmg spill-over and all that).

SO, wouldn't capping the amount of OG you can get from Dante/Styanax to like....5k or so, or at least make them expire/decay is basically THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS? It'd reduce the annoyance a lot of people get from just getting OG indiscriminately, and STILL be useful for stuff like SP endless endurance, it'd also encourage Dante/Styanax to keep the buffing going as well. I think that's fairly reasonable.

Also, I don't think using endless SP endurance stuff as a benchmark for balancing is very fair...

9 hours ago, LeonardBlyx said:

A while ago, DE announced that they are going to release every future weapon, without exception, with the lowest disposition upon release, and then increase their disposition as needed. 

I'm aware of this, but that's beside the point. They also said quite a long while back that they're not going to be reducing the riven disposition of the Incarnon'd weapons just yet, several patches after they were introduced....which was really REALLY strange to me. The Torid at the very least, deserves to have the worst disposition, among some other notable incarnon weapons. 

If some non-incarnon newly released weapons still get the lowest disposition and only rising by VERY little afterwards, but stuff like the Torid or Dual Toxocysts remain with abhorrently high disposition for what they are now...it'd be pretty silly, as is the case. 

There are CLEARLY weapons that are not Incarnons that are CLEARLY inferior to them...but are still stuck with pretty pathetic dispositions....Ignis Wraith for example, maybe if they flip the disposition of the Torid with it, that'd certainly be a lot more fair. 

Edited June 14 by SprinKah

[LeonardBlyx]

I still think the visibility is causing this problem. Nezha has been doing it for a decade now, the only difference is Dante gives Overguard to the entire party in the range, while Nezha does 1 person at a time with an unlimited range. Like Overguard, Warding Halo also does not expire. Both provide status immunity, and you can't remove them until they expire. You can't IGNORE it because, in addition to status immunity and damage reduction, it staggers everyone in 2m of you. You can't RUN AWAY from it, because it is not a ranged ability. And you can't wait for it to EXPIRE because it doesn't have a duration. 

[quxier]

1 hour ago, SprinKah said:

"Sense of urgency" might be a bit of a stretch, it's more like....the game should at least be able to poke at you with a stick, agitating enough to still force you to move and put in a semblance of effort. Like you'd still need to run around, dodge and shoot enemies in order to not get pecked...but as things stand, getting 30k OG nonchalantly WITHOUT END just kinda takes all that away. That's the unfortunate thing that happened to SP Effervo max-eyes boss fight. 

Here is a thing, you cannot dodge. At some point enemies doesn't care if you roll or run. They still hits you. Why? Because they know exactly where you are. It's mostly visible & fun when you are not yet visible but Grineer uses turrets to shoot at your exact location.

30k OG doesn't take that away because there weren't such things. At least not in "later game". Sure, very low levels when there are not many enemies you can roll to cover. In later game you want to do it quicker. Cover shooting is not the way.

 

Oh, and you can say that I'm talking "silly stuff". Unequip your shield (gate) mods, rolling guard, adaptation. Don't use any (pseudo) immortality. Don't buff yourself too much. Then go to stuff like Archon hunt... SOLO. Have fun (for few seconds/minute).

 

ps. I'm not saying what you write about "game need to poke you to run/dodge" is wrong. I'm just saying that's not WF 99% of time.

1 hour ago, SprinKah said:

SO, wouldn't capping the amount of OG you can get from Dante/Styanax to like....5k or so, or at least make them expire/decay is basically THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS? It'd reduce the annoyance a lot of people get from just getting OG indiscriminately, and STILL be useful for stuff like SP endless endurance, it'd also encourage Dante/Styanax to keep the buffing going as well. I think that's fairly reasonable.

Also, I don't think using endless SP endurance stuff as a benchmark for balancing is very fair...

Balancing over X is honestly not great.

When Gyre came out (afair) I had issue where she basically melt normal star chart. Some people said that SP is the content we are supposed to play. Some months/year later and we have much more SP+ content.

Without any sort of "normal give you X damage, Y hp/og, SP - X+M damage, Y+N hp/og, E/DA  X+U damage, Y+I hp/og" we will have frames or guns that vastly overpower some content and may be good or enough for other.

[Nerthiril]

On 2024-06-12 at 12:27 AM, SprinKah said:

On an unrelated note, I still dunno what this "iframe" term is haha, keep hearing about it but not quite sure what's up with that 

Iframe is short for invincibility frame. Usually seen in darksouls like combat where rolling grants you a brief period of taking no damage in order to dodge attacks. This exact same thing can be seen in the mod rolling guard where you become invincible for 3 seconds upon rolling. Note harrows invincibility buff is not an iframe. Iframes are short periods of invincibility while performing an action. Usually leaving the player unable to take any other action till that iframe granting one is complete. Not just straight up giving invincibility for 30s