why do sentinels do nothing so often even with Assault Mode equipped?

[supernils]

is there a cooldown on "attacking"? this is my biggest pet peeve with companions...

[Hazuruk]

What weapon are they using? Could be a fire rate issue.

[(PSN)Sentiel]

We need more info

My Sentinels are a menace that can kill SP enemies

[Traumtulpe]

Are you perhaps invisible? Sentinels will not attack if you're invisible.

[LittleLeoniePrime]

all of the above.

if you're invis they won't attack.

depending on their weapon they might take a while to fire.

and lastly order of precept mods matters a lot. sentinels use the same priority system as elemental mods (top to bottom; left to right.) meaning the top-left most mod will be executed the most.

[RLanzinger]

To @supernils : "is there a cooldown on "attacking"?"

NO but

What is your mod order priority(*) ? (reading order)

• For Deth n' Helios, it can be Special attack first (as it deal more damage).
• Mods priority Can be bug-ed !!! : You have to remove all mods > exit config > reconfig it. Do not use copy config, can be still bugged (rarely but can).

What is your others attack mods ?

• Assault mode (30m & visible) for all
• Djinn have Thumper (60m, visible)...

What is your engaging range vs weapon range ?

• 30m is short (Warframe can jump 50m easily -or hardly if FROST-)
• Verglas for ex : Limited range of 24 meters. Bugs : Verglas does not currently benefit from Sinister Reach despite being able to equip it.

Also there is... (will tell ya about angle speed another time)

(*) : Coolant Leak, Regen, Sanctuary, and Animal Instinct can be placed in any mod slot as their effects are inherently passive, thus they are not affected by Priority nor do they interfere with it. The same applies to mods that affect a Sentinel's stats directly.

[Zakkhar]

2 hours ago, supernils said:

is there a cooldown on "attacking"? this is my biggest pet peeve with companions...

Fire rate, reload, enemy out of range.

Also Precepts that involve some kind of special attack (eg. https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Calculated_Shot) will pause the Weapon attacks.

[Slayer-.]

4 hours ago, (PSN)Sentiel said:

We need more info

My Sentinels are a menace that can kill SP enemies

Same here, they are very good at it.

[supernils]

well, am I hallucinating then?

please check out this, perfectly illustrates the problem. Watch how sentinels stops attacking (or doing ANYTHING) after 2 enemies:

 

@RLanzinger

doesn't help. I removed all mods, went to config again applying only Assault Mode. Sentinel eventually stops doing anything, after 2 - 5 enemies.

 

just for the proof I recorded it again...

 

 

the damage is S#&$ty enough on these companions (no matter the rifle), basically only work as single target primer (or with shivering contageon), but also only with very specific rifles (disclaimer, I moded full status no damage in the build here because it damage is still S#&$). Hounds can do priming much better. AND damage. Why can't Sentinel guns at least have the stats of like BAD Warframe weapons? I mean all companions offer some sort of utility, they should also all have similar damage. Not with some very specific exotic build, with a STANDARD build they shouldn't be completely useless damage wise. At least fix them not attacking at all!

  

On 2024-06-21 at 1:11 PM, (PSN)Sentiel said:

My Sentinels are a menace that can kill SP enemies

show me please!

Edited June 27 by supernils

[Traumtulpe]

51 minutes ago, supernils said:

well, am I hallucinating then?

That's because you paused the AI. Unpause and your sentinel will keep attacking.

[Traumtulpe]

Here's what a Sentinel can do by the way:

(In case you missed it, those 3m damage are from the Sentinel)

Edited June 27 by Traumtulpe

[supernils]

15 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Here's what a Sentinel can do by the way:

that seems to be right. Confusing though, as 1. the sentinel DOES attack of its own, but then stops 2. the mod just says "attacks enemies in range"

36 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

That's because you paused the AI. Unpause and your sentinel will keep attacking.

so please share weapon and build

Edited June 27 by supernils

[(PSN)Sentiel]

Your videos are from Simulacrum with paused AI. All Sentinels will stop attacking in these conditions.

This shouldn't happen in normal missions.

As for my builds, I use Verglas modded for either Cold+HM (if my frame can use Nourish), Viral+Slash or Blast. All use the new Rifle Elementalist mod. Either of these settings can easily kill most SP enemies. You can further improve it by using Duplex Bond, Contagious Bond, and other Bond mods which are usually situational, such as Momentous Bond and Astral Bond.

[FiveN9ne]

Sentinels killing 20 eximus units while having Momentous Bond stacked to the max is skewed af. Use Exo Gokstad Officers for testing instead of having 120% * 13 elements damage bonus + status effects. You're never stacking that many elements in regular gameplay. However, companion weapons can be strong - it's mostly Verglas and Contagious Bond doing work. 

Sentinel build (Wyrm) for Heat dps - for non heat swap Fired Up for something else.

Verglas Grineer build - swap riven for Bane and 60 heat for fire rate if not outsourcing.

Verglas Corpus build should be the same just use Magnetic/Toxin - swap riven for fire rate if not outsourcing.

Semi on topic, i think it's bs that sentinels do not attack while you're invisible. They should be attacking whenever the player is attacking, regardless.

If i'm invisible and walking around, it should chill. If i start attacking, it should start attacking too. Anything other than this makes no logical sense.

[supernils]

@FiveN9ne I'm glad you're calling out those niche situational show offs.

However stating the Verglas has the same flaw as it's VERY hard to get (just buy it, ofc...).

When we're discussing Sentinel damage, or any sort of balance problem, we really should use average builds, because that's more representative in order to be able to draw comparisons. But people aren't interested in that kind of discussion, they usually just want to prove you wrong by showing how they succeed under the current circumstances by just using the most OP choices. What I would prefer to discuss is the general state of companions. For your average player.

Maybe next I'm talking about cavats, because even with all their damage mods they are unable to be impactful in mid-level content. Helpful mods like "when you companion kills..." seem like mockery in that regard.

[FiveN9ne]

1 minute ago, supernils said:

@FiveN9ne I'm glad you're calling out those niche situational show offs.

However stating the Verglas has the same flaw as it's VERY hard to get (just buy it, ofc...).

When we're discussing Sentinel damage, or any sort of balance problem, we really should use average builds, because that's more representative in order to be able to draw comparisons. But people aren't interested in that kind of discussion, they usually just want to prove you wrong by showing how they succeed under the current circumstances by just using the most OP choices. What I would prefer to discuss is the general state of companions. For your average player.

Maybe next I'm talking about cavats, because even with all their damage mods they are unable to be impactful in mid-level content. Helpful mods like "when you companion kills..." seem like mockery in that regard.

In general, most companion weapons are trash and most companions can't really do much on their own. Whether they should is a different story. Imo, they're a minor support tool for the warframe and should not be standalone powerhouses. Priming, providing shields/hp/energy etc. i think that is the ultimate role of a companion. But yea, some things can be made to be broken under certain circumstances.

[Traumtulpe]

53 minutes ago, FiveN9ne said:

Sentinels killing 20 eximus units while having Momentous Bond stacked to the max is skewed af. Use Exo Gokstad Officers for testing instead of having 120% * 13 elements damage bonus + status effects.

Fine, have some Steel Path Exo Gokstad Officers (they don't exist outside of the Simulacrum by the way):

 

[FiveN9ne]

1 hour ago, Traumtulpe said:

Fine, have some Steel Path Exo Gokstad Officers (they don't exist outside of the Simulacrum by the way):

 

I know it can kill those but what you did is kinda cheating. You did the first heat stack from sentinel, then stacked another 200 procs with furis then let the tick kill the enemy to spread the hundreds of procs via contagious bond. That's not purely sentinel killing enemies. Try not using any guns and see if the result is the same.

[Traumtulpe]

2 minutes ago, FiveN9ne said:

That's not purely sentinel killing enemies.

Well obviously not since that would be automation of the game and DE really hates that. How about this then:

[VENDOMINUS]

You probably already understand why it wasn't attacking from the other comments.

When it comes to damage, the sentinels output usually ties really closely to the warframe you're playing. As seen, if a Rhino buffs it with roar, it can do pretty well. You can get similar results with Wisp, Volt or any number of frames that provide buffs to it.

There is no need to stress over if it doesn't do as well right now. It will do just fine eventually.

[_Anise_]

5 hours ago, supernils said:

please check out this, perfectly illustrates the problem. Watch how sentinels stops attacking (or doing ANYTHING) after 2 enemies:

turning off the AI in simulacrum kinda turns off your sentinel AI too, don't believe me? leave enemy AI on and instead just toggle invulnerability on yourself and the sentinel and it will go ham

  

3 hours ago, FiveN9ne said:

Semi on topic, i think it's bs that sentinels do not attack while you're invisible. They should be attacking whenever the player is attacking, regardless.

I think they will attack altered enemies only? they will also activate damaging precepts, so dethcube possibly with one of the high damage sentinel weapon + vaporize, or digira with its aoe for status spreading could be nice.

Moa also follow this tactic and won't attack while stealth by default but afaik the mod that makes a moa melee will make it attack in stealth

one think I wonder (did not test) will the combat stealth grated from covert bond override a none attack stealth and make it attack?

 

Edited June 27 by _Anise_

[supernils]

2 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

turning off the AI in simulacrum kinda turns off your sentinel AI too, don't believe me? leave enemy AI on and instead just toggle invulnerability on yourself and the sentinel and it will go ham

thats an interesting theory, that the sentinel doesn't react to aggro, but instead is falsely affected by the setting

@Traumtulpe would be nice if you'd include your loadouts if you dont mind sharing

Edited June 27 by supernils

[supernils]

2 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

Well obviously not since that would be automation of the game and DE really hates that

without being able to survive on their own, this wouldn't be helping AFK playing.

I think all sentinel weapons should do about 20-40% ish of the player damage (both with similar average loadouts). easy to get beginner companions and those who provide high damage support by status lower, others higher. that I would call a balanced game. no weapon should be so bad that is is insignificant. actually sentinels should do MORE damage than other companions, because they have the disadvantage of not being able to be revived.

Edited June 27 by supernils

[Anonymouse7611]

So all companions will self revive now after some time.  It used to be that after sentinels went down they'd stay down until you died and when you revived, so would they.  Anyhow, that no longer a disadvantage exclusive to sentinels among companions.

Early in the game, it's tempting to use your companion as if it were a teammate.  I did this myself to my own detriment.  This isn't what they're made for.  If you are attempting hard content, either git guud or get friends. 

And by 'git guud', in this game, it means leveraging every aspect for what it can do for your total load out.  I used Helios or Panzer Vulpophyla early on to help with killing.  It made me.a lazier and worse player.  I've lately switched to Diriga and using it for priming and then leveraging the status effects to synergize with my warframe abilities and weapons so that together we can do hundreds of thousands of points of damage per second.  If I thought of the companion and my equipment as separate entities we'd each would be doing something like 1%-10% of that kind of damage.

So when you see some of those other videos and people argue that isn't "fair" because the player is priming or whatever.  The reason they're showing you that is because that's actually a better representation of how a companion is used to deal damage.