Follow-Up Regarding instability on recent Intel processors

[[DE]Glen]

There has been some confusion about our recent Dev Workshop post describing an issue we ran into with recent Intel processors. To be clear: we were describing a specific issue and how we fixed it on one machine with the hope that it might help others.

We have over 100 workstations containing Intel 13th and 14th-generation processors deployed at Digital Extremes and we were only having problems with one of them; after it had its BIOS updated, the crashes went away.

Furthermore, it would be a mistake to extrapolate our data for “nvgpucom64.dll crashes” to include all crashes.

Here’s a graph we generated from the 666 most-recently reported crashes:

As you can clearly see: Waframe crashes on everything!

What isn’t clear, though, is how many of those crashes would be fixed with a simple BIOS update. Again, it’s not something we would normally encourage people to do – usually the advice is “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” – however if you’re crashing playing Warframe and other games, you have a 13th or 14th generation Intel processor, and you’ve updated everything else, then it’s something to consider (check with your motherboard vendor for updates and instructions).

 

[Agall]

6 minutes ago, [DE]Glen said:

As you can clearly see: Waframe crashes on everything!

 

I get less crashes than everyone else because I only play Excalibur, but I don't play other Warframes to verify this claim.

[SunTzu7]

17 minutes ago, [DE]Glen said:

As you can clearly see: Waframe crashes on everything!

Lol

[Tyeia]

I actually had crashes on a 10th gen Intel processor. After updating my motherboard BIOS things seem a lot stabler

[mazzinia]

With over 13k hours in the game, I think i never had a single crash due to warframe in the last years since I changed to Xeon Gen 1 cpus . This said , a week ago an online ad managed an out of memory in the player on chrome one time too much and crashed hard the latest nvidia quadro drivers, bringing down the whole workstation.

 

[CaptainAnkara]

 

• If your system is using an Intel 13th/14th Gen unlocked desktop CPU and is experiencing stability issues/out of video memory error messages/crash to desktop while the game is compiling shaders, please consult the following sites for troubleshooting assistance:

https://community.intel.com/t5/Processors/Regarding-Reports-of-13th-14th-Gen-Unlocked-Desktop-Users/td-p/1575863?profile.language=en

 

update your bios and revert back to “intel baseline profile”

[mazzinia]

Well well well,

interesting post on this very topic

https://alderongames.com/intel-crashes

seems is a bit more serious

[Roble_Viejo]

hace 2 horas, CaptainAnkara dijo:

 

• If your system is using an Intel 13th/14th Gen unlocked desktop CPU and is experiencing stability issues/out of video memory error messages/crash to desktop while the game is compiling shaders, please consult the following sites for troubleshooting assistance:

https://community.intel.com/t5/Processors/Regarding-Reports-of-13th-14th-Gen-Unlocked-Desktop-Users/td-p/1575863?profile.language=en

 

update your bios and revert back to “intel baseline profile”

This is INSANE, people shouldnt be resetting their f-ing BIOS to be able to play a 11 YEARS OLD GAME

DE, ease down on the Lighting Reworks, everytime you touch up the Lighting system everything looks and runs worse
Warframe already looks as good as it could possible be, now make it stable so it works for another 11 years

[Vaxtin]

I've been getting 1-2 second hang-ups a lot the past week, and I am not sure, but it may be related to Jade Eximus units as I've been playing missions with them due to the event. Having just crashed, I decided to visit the forums. I am on an AMD platform though, with an Nvidia GPU.

[Dalewyn]

@[DE]Glen Can you also clarify on the duplicate SKU entries on the previous pie chart? Duplicate 14700K entries, for example. I'm assuming you guys meant 14600K or something, but would be nice to have it clarified and corrected while we're here.

[Versalkul]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb Roble_Viejo:

This is INSANE, people shouldnt be resetting their f-ing BIOS to be able to play a 11 YEARS OLD GAME

You are missing the point. This issue is NOT Warframe specific. DE cant fix that, as it is likely a hardware issue. There is a great Level1Tech video about it called "Intel has a Pretty Big Problem" that goes into more detail.

[Renzo]

20 hours ago, [DE]Glen said:

As you can clearly see: Waframe crashes on everything!

Warframe's slogan for 2024: Waframe crashes on everything!

[[DE]Glen]

16 hours ago, Dalewyn said:

@[DE]Glen Can you also clarify on the duplicate SKU entries on the previous pie chart? Duplicate 14700K entries, for example. I'm assuming you guys meant 14600K or something, but would be nice to have it clarified and corrected while we're here.

It looks like subtitles in the way crash logs report the base CPU frequency; evidently some are "Core i7-14700K 3418MHz" and some are "Core i7-14700K 3417MHz" in the logs; the base clock estimate was originally written in 2003 to try to identify overclocked systems when analyzing crashes and it doesn't seem to have aged well. I should have just combined them in the histogram but didn't notice sadly.

[TheGreatMorph]

My Warframe crashes on DirectX11, when SSAO Quality is set to Very High. With, or without overlays like steam or geforce. Doesn't crash when set to High though, and does not crash even on Very High if using DirectX12. RTX 4070Ti GPU. Do you guys have any similar reports, or is this an issue on my side?

[[DE]Glen]

9 minutes ago, TheGreatMorph said:

My Warframe crashes on DirectX11, when SSAO Quality is set to Very High. With, or without overlays like steam or geforce. Doesn't crash when set to High though, and does not crash even on Very High if using DirectX12. RTX 4070Ti GPU. Do you guys have any similar reports, or is this an issue on my side?

Fixes for SSAO Very High are coming with next hotfix (we just need to wait for all platforms to get through cert).

[Salenstormwing]

On 2024-07-15 at 3:05 PM, Roble_Viejo said:

This is INSANE, people shouldnt be resetting their f-ing BIOS to be able to play a 11 YEARS OLD GAME

DE, ease down on the Lighting Reworks, everytime you touch up the Lighting system everything looks and runs worse
Warframe already looks as good as it could possible be, now make it stable so it works for another 11 years

You would think that, but the problem is that on the NEW 13th and 14th gen motherboards, the INITIAL Bios that comes preinstalled on your motherboard probably DOES NOT have the fix to keep your chip from working in a dangerous way.

I've recently purchased 6 high-end 14th gen PCs for my work and ALL of them had issues with CPU-intensive programs like MAKING A PDF, where sometimes it would crash to outright bluescreen the PC.

The problem is NOT the game; the problem wasn't my Adobe 2020 Standard (a 4 year old program at this point); the problem is the BIOS needed to be updated to make sure the CPU worked properly.

Complaining about an 11-year old game not working properly on a new PC misses the point that it's NOT the game's fault. This is like putting the normal gas you've been putting in your old car for years and putting it into a BRAND NEW CAR with a BRAND NEW ENGINE, and there's a huge flaw in said engine where on occasion it might just spontaneously explode.

And the BIOS crashing issue isn't ONLY for Warframe. Again, I've seen OTHER programs that are HIGH CPU-dependent die just as fast and hard as others and the only way to fix it is to update your bios to a new version. You're not "RESETTING" it, you're "UPDATING" it.

If you have an HP or Dell, you can always go to the company's support page to get the proper update for your system. Otherwise, use CPU-Z to find the make and model of your BIOS, as well as what VERSION of the BIOS you have, and then do a Google search to see if there is an update for your BIOS as well as the proper instructions to do an update of the BIOS.

Again, Warframe is NOT the problem. It's the fact that Intel MB manufacturers didn't program them properly and now a LOT of motherboard makers are making updates to their BIOSes to keep them from damaging the board and CPU (as well as keep your games and programs stable).

I know the Z790 Taichi Lite motherboards that came in my work PCs have had updates almost every 2 weeks since April when this sort of thing first came to light way back in April. Their bios they were installed with was 5.06. In late April, they updated to 6.11, and just this week they updated to 7.01. That's a LOT of revisions for something that isn't usually updated as much as you'd think.

 

TL:DR: Warframe makes PC CPU work hard. 13th & 14th Gen CPU MBs need update to keep from failing under high CPU load. Update your BIOS.

PS: If you don't know how to update your bios, tell folks here, so we can try and help you. Like using CPU-Z (a free program) will get you a lot of info folks can use to get you the proper support.

[Salenstormwing]

As a follow-up, sometimes Windows Update will have BIOS updates that have been provided to the Microsoft available for you to download. To check,  go to SETTINGS > WINDOWS UPDATE > ADVANCED OPTIONS. Under OPTIONAL UPDATES, see if there are any update for your PC listed there. A Bios Update will usually say something like BIOS or FIRMWARE or SYSTEM or something similar to that.

It's still best if you check with your motherboard's manufacturer or your PC's manufacturer for BIOS updates (if you are advanced enough) but for folks who know where Windows Update is, this is a good first place to check for a possible fix for crashing issues of your new PC.

[--RV--Cola]

Quote

As you can clearly see: Waframe crashes on everything!

Now that's a flex!

[Salenstormwing]

Good news. Intel just released the new Microcode 0x129, which should help with CPU stability and keeping the 13th and 14th gen CPUs from destroying themselves slowly while under intense pressure.

Check your Motherboard and/or PC Manufacturer for any motherboard bios updates if you're running one of the effected processors. I know Dell released my R16 Aurora's Bios update on Thursday, and the Z790 Taichi Lite has a new Bios available from Friday. If your specific board doesn't have one yet, it should be out soon.

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intel-details-microcode-update-patch-has-negligible-performance-impacts-requires-bios-update

[Tesla_Reloaded]

2 часа назад, Salenstormwing сказал:

Good news.

One little detail: this processor microcode update is effective only if you haven't faced the stability issue yet. In this case it may prevent such issues from appearing in the future.

If your already experience crashes and other stability issues with your Intel CPU this update won't fix anything. The only solution in this case is to get a replacement CPU by warranty.

Edited August 11 by Tesla_Reloaded

[Salenstormwing]

1 hour ago, Tesla_Reloaded said:

One little detail: this processor microcode update is effective only if you haven't faced the stability issue yet. In this case it may prevent such issues from appearing in the future.

f your already experience crashes and other instability issues with your Intel CPU this update won't fix anything. The only solution in this case is to get a replacement CPU by warranty.

True, but Intel have also increased the warranty coverage of said processors as well. If your CPU is broke, you can get it fixed.

https://www.theverge.com/24216305/intel-13th-14th-gen-raptor-lake-cpu-crash-news-updates-patches-fixes-motherboards