Would you like something new, making the game harder to play for increased rewards, for example?

[MeGaLoDoN5]

I would like to see in the game complicated content, for example, on any infinite mission you can include any modifiers that will complicate the passage of this mission, of course, more complications, more reward, I did not in vain invested time and forms in my equipment, right?).

In general, this already exists on the elite archimedeia, looks good, except that I do not like the random selection of equipment, I do not want to choose the best of the worst among three warframes, one of which has 3 forms, and the other two are waiting for their time when I want to pump them up

 

[Tesla_Reloaded]

Oh god no, not another topic about Endgame, about hardrore and challenge!

[Zakkhar]

Feel free to give yourself handicaps (Dragon Keys, no mods, trash weapons etc.), but don't expect better rewards.

DE clearly says they do not want to encourage this approach (longer/difficult missions for better rewards, thats why they intentionally do not give better rewards). Let's be happy that we have SP at least. You got Duviri too.

1 hour ago, MeGaLoDoN5 said:

In general, this already exists on the elite archimedeia, looks good, except that I do not like the random selection of equipment, I do not want to choose the best of the worst among three warframes, one of which has 3 forms, and the other two are waiting for their time when I want to pump them up

In other words, you like the hard content with good rewards as long as it is not hard for you.

Edited August 13 by Zakkhar

[MeGaLoDoN5]

2 минуты назад, Zakkhar сказал:

Feel free to give yourself handicaps (Dragon Keys, no mods, trash weapons etc.), but don't expect better rewards.

DE clearly says they do not want to encourage this approach (longer/difficult missions for better rewards, thats why they intentionbally do not give better rewards). Let's be happy that we have SP at least. You got Duviri too.

In order words, you like the hard content with good rewards as long as it is not hard for you.

If difficult content forces me to make a better build/build that JUST has the ability to clear such content, I will be only too happy about it, because at the moment I have the best builds for absolutely any content in the game. I can clear any content with maximum efficiency, and I haven't even reached rank 24 yet, that's the only thing left for me to do essentially.

[Tsukinoki]

Question:
Have you actually tried EDA ignoring the frame and weapon choices, just the personal modifiers?
Because let me tell you: With free selection of gear those additional modifiers aren't that noticeable.

I've done it a few times were one or two people gets utterly horrid draws for gear so we decide to just do EDA in 2 runs to max out everyone with one group not limiting themselves and one group limiting themselves.  And I usually leave the personal modifiers on because they aren't really that noticeable most of the time.

It honestly doesn't matter what limitations you have the players select from, we are so power crept that it won't really cause any noticeable affects.

1 hour ago, MeGaLoDoN5 said:

In general, this already exists on the elite archimedeia, looks good, except that I do not like the random selection of equipment, I do not want to choose the best of the worst among three warframes, one of which has 3 forms, and the other two are waiting for their time when I want to pump them up

So basically: You want to choose all these modifiers that will increase your rewards massively.......as long as it has absolutely zero impact on the gear and frames you can bring into the mission to just completely sidestep and ignore all of the additional challenge?

[MeGaLoDoN5]

7 минут назад, Tsukinoki сказал:

Question:
Have you actually tried EDA ignoring the frame and weapon choices, just the personal modifiers?
Because let me tell you: With free selection of gear those additional modifiers aren't that noticeable.

I've done it a few times were one or two people gets utterly horrid draws for gear so we decide to just do EDA in 2 runs to max out everyone with one group not limiting themselves and one group limiting themselves.  And I usually leave the personal modifiers on because they aren't really that noticeable most of the time.

It honestly doesn't matter what limitations you have the players select from, we are so power crept that it won't really cause any noticeable affects.

So basically: You want to choose all these modifiers that will increase your rewards massively.......as long as it has absolutely zero impact on the gear and frames you can bring into the mission to just completely sidestep and ignore all of the additional challenge?

I'm not talking only about these complications, I'm talking about a conditional list that could be, from which you could choose. Of course, there are minor complications, for which the reward is slightly improved As well as serious complications, which you can only pass with a specific build Of course, such a change in my opinion should be aimed at another point - to dilute the boring gameplay. I haven't played survival/defense for a long time, I think that these game modes have outlived their usefulness, they are incredibly boring, only a crash, a cascade of the abyss will remain, only these modes now give an interesting game, and not standing AFK, where one DD plays, and even then, this DD Cora presses the 1 button, interesting gameplay)

[latetier]

11 minutes ago, MeGaLoDoN5 said:

If difficult content forces me to make a better build/build that JUST has the ability to clear such content, I will be only too happy about it, because at the moment I have the best builds for absolutely any content in the game. I can clear any content with maximum efficiency, and I haven't even reached rank 24 yet, that's the only thing left for me to do essentially.

people asking for more "difficult" content should be much more specific with what they mean. difficulty means different things for everyone.

for example, someone with 10k hours in warframe wont find much of anything difficult, however a completely brand new player will find literally all content difficult in some form or another.

just saying, "give us more difficulty" is extremely vague. do you want bullet sponge mobs and bosses back? or new mechanically challenging boss and mob mechanics like a mmorpg raid where you have to dodge things or get one shotted?

i think far too many people get caught up with "diffculty" instead of enjoying the game and having fun. and if the only fun you get is from feeling like you are challenged and what you are playing doesn't feel challenging, maybe that activity or game really just isn't for you.

Edited August 13 by latetier

[AntifreezeUnder0]

I want missions to be fun.

Earlier when we and enemies werent so op, One could spend 1h in excavation fissure having blast. Now you need to guess be it 1 tap or not.

Things should be hidden behind challenges. Like mine star amarast 1 million times= get perma boost to 1 warframe. Kill 10k bosses get different kind of boost for wep of choice.

Or feed helminth 10 mil resources to unlock 1 perma rng buff for 1 frame of choice- cant be changed, and its only 1 buff on weekly, giving up the 3 diff frames with extra override on 10th invigoration.

Heck give like kill 100 k sp enemies with wep to get weapon stat boosted- flat boost. Next stage be 300k, and such, so we can make some abysmal builds, with time input needed abysmal too.

Eda , circuit and arbis, even archons, are more about copy paste meta mechanics on weps and frames and be like prime this, use this for dmg, and shieldgate + insert shield gate holder frame here.  Or just hope your go to frame/loadout is there making it breeze.

People value having fun and knowing time inputed in missions is worthy to loot.

 

[Venus-Venera]

vor einer Stunde schrieb MeGaLoDoN5:

I would like to see in the game complicated content, for example, on any infinite mission you can include any modifiers that will complicate the passage of this mission, of course, more complications, more reward, I did not in vain invested time and forms in my equipment, right?).

In general, this already exists on the elite archimedeia, looks good, except that I do not like the random selection of equipment, I do not want to choose the best of the worst among three warframes, one of which has 3 forms, and the other two are waiting for their time when I want to pump them up

 

I only play in public 99.99% of the time. And people there are often very overwhelmed. Even with Eidolons it took many years until it was more or less playable in public. Even now I see too many beginners with unsuitable weapons and low dmg operators. And many people don't even inform themselves. For example, too many people don't know that porting is not possible once the arcane portal has been entered. And what year is it?

So.... no! Because it simply can't work. Plus all the kids with problems in real life will present their anger and frustration in the chat, like in other games.

[latetier]

9 minutes ago, AntifreezeUnder0 said:

I want missions to be fun.

Earlier when we and enemies werent so op, One could spend 1h in excavation fissure having blast. Now you need to guess be it 1 tap or not.

Things should be hidden behind challenges. Like mine star amarast 1 million times= get perma boost to 1 warframe. Kill 10k bosses get different kind of boost for wep of choice.

Or feed helminth 10 mil resources to unlock 1 perma rng buff for 1 frame of choice- cant be changed, and its only 1 buff on weekly, giving up the 3 diff frames with extra override on 10th invigoration.

Heck give like kill 100 k sp enemies with wep to get weapon stat boosted- flat boost. Next stage be 300k, and such, so we can make some abysmal builds, with time input needed abysmal too.

Eda , circuit and arbis, even archons, are more about copy paste meta mechanics on weps and frames and be like prime this, use this for dmg, and shieldgate + insert shield gate holder frame here.  Or just hope your go to frame/loadout is there making it breeze.

People value having fun and knowing time inputed in missions is worthy to loot.

 

completely fair to want these things for yourself in your opinion, but you have to remember, what you find "fun difficulty" could be seen by someone else as bad and boring.

many different types of people in this game all think their way is the right way but in reality there is no one right way. its a game. enjoy it. if its not fun anymore maybe its time to take a break.

Edited August 13 by latetier

[Rathalio]

1 hour ago, MeGaLoDoN5 said:

In general, this already exists on the elite archimedeia, looks good, except that I do not like the random selection of equipment, I do not want to choose the best of the worst among three warframes, one of which has 3 forms, and the other two are waiting for their time when I want to pump them up

The power fantasy in Warframe is so high already that if you get to choose any gear without restrictions, a more challenging game mode will either not be good enough to compete with your most over powered setups or be completely unfair and only playable using the most cheesy and unbalanced stuff. And already today I feel like the modifier in EDA that brings the luminus is almost unfair overall to give an example. The direct life drain makes it hard but also is very unfun for most of your warframes and is really obnoxious in the more static missions.

I think it has become pretty clear over time, with all the attempts DE made, that either you would have to get all your beloved warframes and weapons nerfed (which is not the game philosophy) or you just have to accept gear selection restrictions to make the game more challenging. And I feel like that this kind of very broken warframes and weapons that you like and want to put to the test in harder game modes. Maybe their design is too potent already for DE to create a good new challenge that would work with them in a healthy way. It's weird for me to see someone expecting challenge in game after successfully having worked on building all of the most optimal ways to play the game, you seem to have worked hard to remove the challenge, now you are chasing after it for some reason.

[Tsukinoki]

6 minutes ago, latetier said:

many different types of people in this game all think their way is the right way but in reality there is no one right way. its a game. enjoy it. if its not fun anymore maybe its time to take a break.

To add onto this: Its OK to play more than one game
No game is meant to be played exclusively.
Take a break, do something else, ignore this game for a while.

Come back in a few months and see if it's not fun again after the break.

Burn out is very real, especially with games like this.

Beyond that you could adjust your playing depending on your difficulty expectations.
For example, I play souls like games and other more challenging games when I want to push myself and have to try hard.  I play warframe and similar games when I want to kick back and relax and blow things up while zooming through maps enjoying the graphics and large numbers and everything else warframe has to offer.

Different games are meant to fill diffeerent niches.  I wouldn't come into warframe demanding a tactical game mode, I would instead find a tactics game to enjoy.

[MaxTunnerX]

1 hour ago, MeGaLoDoN5 said:

I would like to see in the game complicated content, for example, on any infinite mission you can include any modifiers that will complicate the passage of this mission, of course, more complications, more reward, I did not in vain invested time and forms in my equipment, right?).

In general, this already exists on the elite archimedeia, looks good, except that I do not like the random selection of equipment, I do not want to choose the best of the worst among three warframes, one of which has 3 forms, and the other two are waiting for their time when I want to pump them up

 

NO. NEVER AGAIN. Make this game more fun and interesting, not more boring, grindy and rage-quitty.

[latetier]

38 minutes ago, Rathalio said:

I think it has become pretty clear over time, with all the attempts DE made, that either you would have to get all your beloved warframes and weapons nerfed (which is not the game philosophy) or you just have to accept gear selection restrictions to make the game more challenging.

It's weird for me to see someone expecting challenge in game after successfully having worked on building all of the most optimal ways to play the game, you seem to have worked hard to remove the challenge, now you are chasing after it for some reason.

you make a great point.

a lot of people seem to not remember but DE actually has tried many times to rein in warframes power scaling with nerfs and make the game more "difficult"

and can anyone guess what happened every single time DE did these things? MASSIVE community outcry. im talking all over the forums, videos, etc. not just one or two threads.

so we arrive at this thread asking for difficulty when it has been shown and proven many times over that the general larger community doesn't seem to want the game to actually be more "difficult". this includes the "high end" players as well as casual players btw.

from what i have seen in the past high end players are the first ones to get really angry that things are becoming more "difficult". example: randomized gear loadouts that dont let you bring the most optimized thing ever created thereby creating difficulty but then everyone says "oh no not THAT kind of difficulty". please make up your minds 😂

Edited August 13 by latetier

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

I can't envision a reward that would be worth the effort. I spend about seven hours a week doing my weeklies and dailies. Spend a few hours grinding out a new prime access when those come around. Spend whatever time a new quest asks of me.

I'm good, chillin'. Just waiting for the power creep to point towards what's next.

 

 

 

[Agall]

3 hours ago, MeGaLoDoN5 said:

I would like to see in the game complicated content, for example, on any infinite mission you can include any modifiers that will complicate the passage of this mission, of course, more complications, more reward, I did not in vain invested time and forms in my equipment, right?).

In general, this already exists on the elite archimedeia, looks good, except that I do not like the random selection of equipment, I do not want to choose the best of the worst among three warframes, one of which has 3 forms, and the other two are waiting for their time when I want to pump them up

 

If they gave us the same rotating modifiers for EDA for SP content that would provide boosters, it would shake up the game quite a lot. They'd be personal too, so it wouldn't fragment the community like adding another layer would inevitably do.

[MeGaLoDoN5]

2 часа назад, Tsukinoki сказал:

To add onto this: Its OK to play more than one game
No game is meant to be played exclusively.
Take a break, do something else, ignore this game for a while.

Come back in a few months and see if it's not fun again after the break.

Burn out is very real, especially with games like this.

Beyond that you could adjust your playing depending on your difficulty expectations.
For example, I play souls like games and other more challenging games when I want to push myself and have to try hard.  I play warframe and similar games when I want to kick back and relax and blow things up while zooming through maps enjoying the graphics and large numbers and everything else warframe has to offer.

Different games are meant to fill diffeerent niches.  I wouldn't come into warframe demanding a tactical game mode, I would instead find a tactics game to enjoy.

I don't know who started talking about the mandatory nature of such content here. It was written above, I think that such complications should be optional, it would be even better if they were unlocked conditionally after 15-20 mastery ranks You can still go to regular missions and play there, I can collect a pack and go to a difficult mission to get a bigger reward, win win...

[MeGaLoDoN5]

2 часа назад, MaxTunnerX сказал:

NO. NEVER AGAIN. Make this game more fun and interesting, not more boring, grindy and rage-quitty.

By complicating modifiers I also mean that they will add something interesting to the gameplay, diversify it and make it more interesting/fun.

[MeGaLoDoN5]

2 часа назад, latetier сказал:

you make a great point.

a lot of people seem to not remember but DE actually has tried many times to rein in warframes power scaling with nerfs and make the game more "difficult"

and can anyone guess what happened every single time DE did these things? MASSIVE community outcry. im talking all over the forums, videos, etc. not just one or two threads.

so we arrive at this thread asking for difficulty when it has been shown and proven many times over that the general larger community doesn't seem to want the game to actually be more "difficult". this includes the "high end" players as well as casual players btw.

from what i have seen in the past high end players are the first ones to get really angry that things are becoming more "difficult". example: randomized gear loadouts that dont let you bring the most optimized thing ever created thereby creating difficulty but then everyone says "oh no not THAT kind of difficulty". please make up your minds 😂

So, should they make it a difficulty where I can collect the gear I need for myself????

What's the problem with that? I do not understand why I will play the mission at all on some obscure warframe that I:

1. I don't like

2. Not pumped

3. Forgotten by everyone and not needed by anyone
 

Creating complexity in this particular way I consider to be absolute stupidity

 

[(PSN)IdoThea]

Usually "Harder" content ends up being bullet sponge enemies and having to constantly use operator to escape death or spam abilities. Archons for example were meant to be hard content until players found a way to one shot them and then they nerfed archons so they wouldn't be bullet spongy.

Now it's just another weekly thing I run through in under half a hour.

I personally don't like harder content and I don't think warframes systems are build for it. You are meant to take damage while you can avoid some of enemy fire you cannot entirely.

That's why we have frames with invincibility abilities, shields and healing arcanes etc.

They tried to introduce different combat "system" with duviri but it's so unintuitive that probably nobody uses it and it's not fun.

 

[latetier]

On 2024-08-13 at 9:49 AM, MeGaLoDoN5 said:

So, should they make it a difficulty where I can collect the gear I need for myself????

What's the problem with that? I do not understand why I will play the mission at all on some obscure warframe that I:

1. I don't like

2. Not pumped

3. Forgotten by everyone and not needed by anyone
 

Creating complexity in this particular way I consider to be absolute stupidity

 

ok well what is a good complexity for you?

and remember, what you think is good, everyone else might not like. that's the main issue. you might enjoy A, B and C levels of complexity. but maybe john from california likes complexity level Z. now multiply this by a factor of millions. everyone cant have the games difficulty cater exactly to them. we would need a level of complexity that caters to at least the majority if not everyone.

Edited August 14 by latetier

[German]

Devs have proven again and again that they can't make fun challenging content in the current game environment.

[MaxTunnerX]

31 minutes ago, (PSN)IdoThea said:

Usually "Harder" content ends up being bullet sponge enemies and having to constantly use operator to escape death or spam abilities. Archons for example were meant to be hard content until players found a way to one shot them and then they nerfed archons so they wouldn't be bullet spongy.

Now it's just another weekly thing I run through in under half a hour.

I personally don't like harder content and I don't think warframes systems are build for it. You are meant to take damage while you can avoid some of enemy fire you cannot entirely.

That's why we have frames with invincibility abilities, shields and healing arcanes etc.

They tried to introduce different combat "system" with duviri but it's so unintuitive that probably nobody uses it and it's not fun.

 

This, and also let me add that every attempt on this hardcore gameplay (for which I see no reason anyway) has only dilluted and fragmented the game. There are almost no squads for any mission you think of. There are only like 4 in total that are spammed as hell, and the others nobody plays, Steel path and so forth made the problem much worse by giving more nodes and also giving more loot so veteran players never came back to low level missions and newbies have no-one to farm with. Now after all the recent updates even veterans have no-one to play with because the content is designed so every small mistake fails the mission, so people find the way to cheese it and do it solo, which again results in nobody playing public. And when there actually is someone, its 99% a noob who has no idea what theyre doing and the mission will probably fail because of that. Now Im not a particular public squad lover, I enjoy solo content to some degree, but I can clearly see that a multiplayer game is failing when you are forced to singleplayer in it. Its fine as long as its a choice, but very wrong when it becomes a must, which is how it is now in WF. I have recently created a new account and I have felt on my own skin how horrible the matchmaking population is. I have to specifically shout for people in recruitment and even then I most often dont find anyone for it except for people doing charity. Fail design.

RIP:
Cetus (including bounties and eidolons), Fortuna (including bounties except for PT and Explo), Deimos, normal star chart, railjack, zariman (without "good" bounty), steel path, netracells and of course conclave but thats abandoned (Lunaro is pretty awesome tho, you should play it sometime).

PS The only good things that added something interesting and didnt ruin the game are void flood and alchemy. Thats not a long list. Everything else may have something interesting in them, but the mechanics are super painful or just irrelevant.

Edited August 13 by MaxTunnerX

[Numerounius]

There are loads of systems you can play in with Warframe.

I recently did some Anomaly Shard runs for the fun of it. Even using weapons I haven't used at all really. That to me is something new and harder than other content. I can come back to it next week and it'll still be a hard challenge or go do an open world bounty instead.

The beauty of Warframe is that there isn't one all-in-all true end-game that you can go to in order to get everything you need. Getting a true system like you're asking for would undermine everything else.

 

I'd say the opportunity cost of setting up an optional challenge run is difficult to do. That I'll agree with you on.  I don't like this unowned weapons and all frames thing. Dragon keys are too cumbersome to manage. Too many gamemodes to pick some out to do runs on. I suppose there's nightwave if that fancies your boat? Think I'll stick with lich hunting until I get my goal done there. After that dunno.

Edited August 13 by Numerounius

[Wyrmius_Prime]

I do wish I could run Elite Archimedea repeatedly with randomized gear rather than it being once a week kinda thing, but I don't mind playing other games in the meanwhile between the resets. Farmable sources of Umbral Forma could also be cool, maybe even add more umbral mods for frames that aren't just health tanks.