I'd like to see some changes to the Syndicates...

[(NSW)Probably_Asleep]

To get ready for farming the Epitaph Prime (something I was particularly excited about because of nostalgia over the Epitaph being the first Secondary Weapon I actually liked), I tried getting four Syndicates up to 132,000 Standing. (While I did get four of them to Rank 5, I only got 2 to full standing while the other two were just in the 40k range; I also farmed a lot of Steel Essence and that was clearly a better way to get relics) So I did a LOT of the Syndicate Alerts this month, and it left me with some opinions...

The Syndicate System (General Feedback)
First of all, I do like the concept. It's a nice lore-heavy idea to choose a faction to joined based on their values (or more realistically based on what rewards they offer and how cool you think they look), and then make enemies of other factions that hold differing values. I also like that the factions have their own missions, sometimes even their own quests, and that if you anger them enough they'll even try to take aggressive action against you.
Secondly though, it feels incomplete. Picking a faction really doesn't do anything because it's so formulaic and copy/paste. The missions aren't all that different, not all factions get a quest, not all factions invite you to their home base, and generally speaking it feels like it's just a place to shove miscellaneous content into (like Augments, Arbitration, Tenet Melee purchases, and being able to fight Hunhow again). Because of this, I have a collection of things I'd like to see added to Syndicates. (Listed in the next section)

Suggested Additions
This'll be a hodgepodge of ideas that I remember having while playing dozens of Syndicate Alerts over the last several weeks...

• Reward me for keeping their members alive
  I think it's fun that I get free Specters at the start of each Syndicate Alert, but they're not very durable and I'm not incentivized to care all that much about them. Because it's usually two syndicate members, I'd like to see the Standing I gain be +50% if I keep one alive, and +100% if I keep them both alive.
• Make me want to work with their members
  Obviously the solution to the above feature would be to lead the Specters into a safe area and then tell them to "Hold Position" so I know they won't die and I can get more rewards. To combat that cheat, I have a carrot/stick combo. For the carrot, anyone killed by the Specters should have guaranteed loot drops. For the stick, make it so I can't extract unless the Specters are either dead or in the extraction zone with me.
• Let me build a rapport with their members
  I want the Syndicate Members to have names, and I want the same people to be working with me from one mission to the next. We have a "Nemesis" system and we're going to have a "Romance" system, so I'm proposing a "Friendship" system. Make it so the Syndicate Member judges my character:
  "Does this (good) Tenno revive allies who go down?"
  "Does this (good) Tenno pull agro to themselves?"
  "Does this (good) Tenno try to find all the Syndicate Medallions?"
  "Does this (bad) Tenno refuse to give a weapon to the Rescue Target?"
  "Does this (bad) Tenno use AoE weapons?"
  "Does this (bad) Tenno let their Animal Companion lay there injured?"
  Things like that, just simple behavioral triggers that an outsider would use to determine if the Tenno is a good or bad person. If the Syndicate Member likes you (do good things, avoid bad things, with some RNG mixed in there), then they'll ask to work with you again the next time you do a mission for that Syndicate. The head of the Syndicate will call you and let you know that "SO-AND-SO" wants to work with you again. If you say "yes," then that Syndicate Member will always be in your crew going forward. From there, certain things can happen:
  • If they die in mission, obviously they're gone
  • If your standing with the Syndicate degrades to negative numbers, then your "friend" will feel betrayed and stop working with you
  • You can do the same things that got them to like you in the first place to get them to like you more (or dislike you)
  • If they become really good friends with you, they'll offer to help you out even in non-Syndicate missions
  • They may also send you presents (random items from the Syndicate Rewards list) with little messages saying no one will miss it but don't tell their boss
  • As you go on more missions together, your "Friend" will level up from 1 to 30
  • Max Level "Friends" are stronger and more durable, have longer revive-windows, and won't die if you can't get to them to revive them
  • Instead of dying, Max Level "Friends" will be at headquarters in "critical condition," where you can donate resources to fund their treatment for recovery
  • Max Level "Friends" also will respond to the Handshake Emote
• Each Faction should have a headquarters you can access (like Steel Meridian's Iron Wake) at level 5
  I mean, they do have headquarters, right? They're not just freeloading off of us Tenno and operating entirely out of our Relays, are they? And you can't tell me that all of their top-level members got their status by offering up a Gold-Rarity Prime Part from Relic Cracking. I think any Tenno that gets to Level 5 should be invited to their home base, and I'd like to see their culture when I get there:
  • Steel Meridian: Already Has Iron Wake
  • Cephalon Suda: A data server facility with a bunch of nerds doing nerd-things (He writes on a video game forum...)
  • Arbiters of Hexis: Cold, quiet library with stuffy historian types reading and putting books away
  • Red Veil: Dingy back-alley assassin's guild kind of tavern with gambling and fights going on
  • The Perrin Sequence: An office building with waiting rooms, secretaries, and board rooms
  • New Loka: Pretty much a nudist colony (they're wearing clothes, calm down), they're working the land and basking in the sun
  Each place should have something do interact with while you're there. I'd be totally fine if it was just a place to spend something to get something like Iron Wakes exchange of Riven Slivers for Riven Mods/Kuva. Each one could have a different type of thing you buy that was themed to their culture. New Loka for instance could take Apothic/Antitoxins/Plantlife for like Void Traces. Arbiters of Hexis could have additional options for Vitus Essence that rotate weekly.
• Each Faction should have their own quest
  New Loka already has one, as well as Cephelon Suda and Red Veil. The other three should have their own, and all six should have some noticeable change in the way they interact with you after you've completed their quests.
• I'd like to see some accountability for when I show up after their "Death Squad" failed to kill me on the last mission
  Doesn't have to be anything big; just an awkward anxiety when I, a Warframe capable of single-handedly annihilating armies and destroying entire spacefaring vessels, waltz in after they had the gall to point their muzzles at me.

That's about it for now. Obviously some of these are much larger changes than others, but they're just what I thought would be cool to see after dealing with Syndicates nonstop.

Edited August 28 by Probably_Asleep
submitted too early

[(NSW)Probably_Asleep]

Oh wait! I did have another idea I forgot to mention:

• Your Syndicate of choice should MATTER somehow
  If you get to Rank 5 with a Syndicate, then there should be some sort of effect having to do with the fact that you're supporting that ideology so enthusiastically. For example:
  • Steel Meridian: Passive +10% Faction Damage Against the Grineer
  • Cephalon Suda: Scans Required for Codex Entry reduced to 1
  • Arbiters of Hexis: Ability Efficiency maxes out of 180% instead of 175%
  • Red Veil: Stealth Finishers have double damage
  • The Perrin Sequence: Can negotiate costs down with all non-Platinum purchases
  • New Loka: Toxin Damage can no longer damage you through shields

[Momoque2]

il y a 9 minutes, Probably_Asleep a dit :

Oh wait! I did have another idea I forgot to mention:

• Your Syndicate of choice should MATTER somehow
  If you get to Rank 5 with a Syndicate, then there should be some sort of effect having to do with the fact that you're supporting that ideology so enthusiastically. For example:
  • Steel Meridian: Passive +10% Faction Damage Against the Grineer
  • Cephalon Suda: Scans Required for Codex Entry reduced to 1
  • Arbiters of Hexis: Ability Efficiency maxes out of 180% instead of 175%
  • Red Veil: Stealth Finishers have double damage
  • The Perrin Sequence: Can negotiate costs down with all non-Platinum purchases
  • New Loka: Toxin Damage can no longer damage you through shields

If DE already dont fix the codex after so many years, I dont think they will change syndicates. But one more think, I would add is to change the eximus units they make spawn on you for syndicates powered units. Like the syndicates operative but much more powerful. Like the red veil fanatique we fight  in the end of harrow quest that has a weapons that dont exist in game. Like fanatique of those syndicates.

Edited August 28 by Momoque2

[quxier]

1 hour ago, Probably_Asleep said:

New Loka: Toxin Damage can no longer damage you through shields

*You are unclean*: 100% more damage to dirty creatures like Infested or Grineer. :D

[(NSW)Probably_Asleep]

4 hours ago, Momoque2 said:

If DE already dont fix the codex after so many years, I dont think they will change syndicates. But one more think, I would add is to change the eximus units they make spawn on you for syndicates powered units. Like the syndicates operative but much more powerful. Like the red veil fanatique we fight  in the end of harrow quest that has a weapons that dont exist in game. Like fanatique of those syndicates.

I like it! It would give some incentive to try out all the syndicates just so you get to see all the different unique enemies. And it would go a long way toward making the the experience more specific to whatever faction you're supporting.

 

3 hours ago, quxier said:

*You are unclean*: 100% more damage to dirty creatures like Infested or Grineer. :D

Ha! Double damage to uggos. Brilliant

[D1398342003]

If they implement a system to reward using the Syndicate allies, they HAVE to fix a few issues. 

The bleedout timer is very inconsistent.  I've had them die within a second of them being downed, sometimes they have three seconds, sometimes seven.  This must be made consistent AND players need to know what is left on their timers.

They currently cannot fight in melee.  A melee enemy will start hitting them, they will stop shooting, stop moving, and slowly die to the weakest enemies in the game.  This is most visible on Infested missions, as solo Chargers and Leapers will lock them down.  You'll be four rooms away when you see the alert.

They cannot drown.  I have had them spawn into the mission near or in water, and they instantly die.

They need customizable loadouts.  Maybe give them access to our arsenal/mods, but only one or two mod slots per weapon/armor.

[(NSW)Probably_Asleep]

8 hours ago, D1398342003 said:

If they implement a system to reward using the Syndicate allies, they HAVE to fix a few issues. 

The bleedout timer is very inconsistent.  I've had them die within a second of them being downed, sometimes they have three seconds, sometimes seven.  This must be made consistent AND players need to know what is left on their timers.

So true! I've even been standing right next to one and started trying to revive them immediate and they've died while I'm reviving them.

8 hours ago, D1398342003 said:

They currently cannot fight in melee.  A melee enemy will start hitting them, they will stop shooting, stop moving, and slowly die to the weakest enemies in the game.  This is most visible on Infested missions, as solo Chargers and Leapers will lock them down.  You'll be four rooms away when you see the alert.

This make a lot of sense. I haven't seen this but I've noticed that Infested levels are just hopeless. I'd like to see the Syndicate Melee weapons being used by their own members too.

8 hours ago, D1398342003 said:

They cannot drown.  I have had them spawn into the mission near or in water, and they instantly die.

I think I've seen respawn areas do this as well. It's great that they try to follow but there's such a thing as being overzealous for one's cause.

8 hours ago, D1398342003 said:

They need customizable loadouts.  Maybe give them access to our arsenal/mods, but only one or two mod slots per weapon/armor.

I'd be all for this! Especially if the Syndicates did have headquarters you could access and while there you're able to talk to someone about what equipment you want them to use while working with you. I'd even be fine with lending them weapons to use.

7 hours ago, PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE said:

Can someoen sum up what is said in subject Im not reading spam this is formatting failure.

Haha! Fair. Though your username seems to indicate that you're fine with others reading excessively long things...

I still try to apply the basic rule we learn in English class (though I'm not actually sure they still teach this... I graduated more than 2 decades ago...). The first sentence of the paragraph should be the general point of the paragraph, while the following body of the paragraph is meant to back that up. Additionally, I used bullet points with bold headers for the TL;DR and then added details below. So the summary of my post would be this:

Quote

The Syndicate System (General Feedback)
First of all, I do like the concept.
Secondly though, it feels incomplete.

Suggested Additions

• Reward me for keeping their members alive
• Make me want to work with their members
• Let me build a rapport with their members
• Each Faction should have a headquarters you can access (like Steel Meridian's Iron Wake) at level 5
• Each Faction should have their own quest
• I'd like to see some accountability for when I show up after their "Death Squad" failed to kill me on the last mission

[D1398342003]

17 hours ago, Probably_Asleep said:

This make a lot of sense. I haven't seen this but I've noticed that Infested levels are just hopeless. I'd like to see the Syndicate Melee weapons being used by their own members too.

I think I've seen respawn areas do this as well. It's great that they try to follow but there's such a thing as being overzealous for one's cause.

I'd be all for this! Especially if the Syndicates did have headquarters you could access and while there you're able to talk to someone about what equipment you want them to use while working with you. I'd even be fine with lending them weapons to use.

Start an Infested mission without a sentinel or pet, watch their behavior.  Something in their code doesn't work and they just stand there and get cherry tapped to death.  I think what's happening is that their code acts like a specter, so they go to melee mode but don't have a weapon to do the strike, and the code loops on that melee strike.

17 hours ago, Probably_Asleep said:

I think I've seen respawn areas do this as well. It's great that they try to follow but there's such a thing as being overzealous for one's cause.

Any Sealab Archwing content in has a good chance of insta-killing them, they just walk in and drown.  It's worst when you have to go Archwing for a room or two, because you lose them and could still make use of them.

17 hours ago, Probably_Asleep said:

I'd be all for this! Especially if the Syndicates did have headquarters you could access and while there you're able to talk to someone about what equipment you want them to use while working with you. I'd even be fine with lending them weapons to use.

A lot of this pretty much already exists, in the Railjack crew members you buy from Ticker in Fortuna.  You can rank them up, give them clones of your Warframe weapons, etc.

[(NSW)Probably_Asleep]

9 hours ago, PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE said:

Keeping noobs alive why, just get better at the game.
They just use easiest solutions possible
Building rapport is up to you
Each Faction has headquarters you can visit
What is Silver Groove, What are Arbitrations, What is Octavia's Anthem, What are Corrupted Holokeys, Who is Palladino, Who is Kahl.
I dont even unsterstand what the last point is all about.

First of all, I appreciate the engagement! When you asked for a summary I thought you might just be jabbing at the size of the post without any intention of having a conversation, but I decided to be optimistic and give a summary anyway. I'm glad I did! Thanks!
I wasn't clear on who I was keeping alive, my bad. I meant the Syndicate Specters, not other players. Though I don't think there's anything wrong with helping other players.
The rest is covered in the OP details, but to clarify that last point I just want some dialog added to the game to acknowledge the fact that we're letting them stay in the Tenno Relay while they're actively trying (and miserably failing) to kill some of us.

 

5 hours ago, D1398342003 said:

Start an Infested mission without a sentinel or pet, watch their behavior.  Something in their code doesn't work and they just stand there and get cherry tapped to death.  I think what's happening is that their code acts like a specter, so they go to melee mode but don't have a weapon to do the strike, and the code loops on that melee strike.

This makes me really sad (obviously the immersion is working great in this game). Just the thought of them coming along in the mission being underequipped by their  and then freezing out of fear as the hideous mutants bludgeon then to death.

5 hours ago, D1398342003 said:

Any Sealab Archwing content in has a good chance of insta-killing them, they just walk in and drown.  It's worst when you have to go Archwing for a room or two, because you lose them and could still make use of them.

Again, thinking of this is actually happening, also really messed up. They're assigned to "follow the Tenno no matter what" and then they see you jump in to the water. So they look at each other, hold their breath, and jump in. Once they're in the water, they see you strap an Archwing to your back and jet off at impossible speeds. Out of sheer loyalty, they desperately try to keep up, but as they start to lose oxygen, they realize the end is nowhere in sight, and they're too far from the entry point to make it back...

5 hours ago, D1398342003 said:

A lot of this pretty much already exists, in the Railjack crew members you buy from Ticker in Fortuna.  You can rank them up, give them clones of your Warframe weapons, etc.

I'd like to think this speaks to the feasibility of the changes rather than the redundancy of some of the features. Although, keeping with my "it's messed up if you think about it" trend: I forgot until you mentioned Ticker! They actually have backstories for the ones you hire as Railjack crew. And they're always tragic backstories too, escaping from tyranny and whatnot. Really tugging at some heartstrings just to have them die pointless deaths on a mission that the Tenno could have easily done by themselves. 

[(NSW)Probably_Asleep]

25 minutes ago, PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE said:

Specter AI is just so bad I wont even comment on it. Completely useless in typical playthrough.

I completely agree. Bad AI, low survival rates, and underpowered equipment make them very sad allies.

27 minutes ago, PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE said:

There is nothing wrong with helping other players? Yeah, but why it's always noob players and never those who actually deserve it ie. - me.

Haha! Fair enough. I hope people aren't mistreating you, but I'm glad you keep playing even if they are.

28 minutes ago, PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE said:

What? In relay? Are you nuts?

There's this game mechanic called "Death Squads" that occurs when your favorability drops to a certain level with any of the Syndicates. They send 3-5 Eximus to kill you on missions now and then (5-8 when they really hate you). I want to be able to walk up to them in the relay after they failed to kill me in the last mission and hear them say something like: "Oh... hi... This is, uh, awkward."

And actually now that I think about it, it's funny that the Syndicates will send their strongest units to fight the Tenno they hate, while sending their weakest units to support the Tenno they love. I've met people in real life who are like that. As friends, they'll only help me if I help them first. But as enemies, they're fully dedicated to destroying me.