Cronus Prime, Incarnon, Prisma... (or save the useless but beloved beginner's weapons)

[kirune]

Those are CRONUS Stats

and this is what the wiki says about the Cronus:

Disadvantages over other Melee weapons (excluding modular weapons):

• Normal Attack (wiki attack index 1)
  • Very low crit chance (6.00%)
  • Very low total damage (106)
  • Low attack speed (0.92x animation speed)
  • Low status chance (18.00%)
  • Very low crit multiplier (1.50x)

No advantages, at all. The only good thing is a high riven disposition, which is nothing else than a symptom of the former data.

The other day I've got an amazingly good riven for that weapon.

• 342.4% Crit Chance
• 156.7% Crit Dmg
• -90.3% Crit Chance for slide attack

If I add Sacrificial Steel (220% Crit Chance) I end up with a weapon with an staggering 39.7% Crit Chance. 🎉 If I invest 4 formas, a Catalyst and an Adapter I'll have a gimmicky weapon, usable but nothing to write back home. This riven is crazy good and still the end result is crap. The riven is not fixing that weapon.

My Cronus was the first new weapon I've got on this game. Around 10 to 11 years ago, when I had no idea how the game mechanics were working regarding improving your dmg output. I wrongly thought the Cronus was a better version of the Skana. It actually was the first weapon I fully leveled. And a bit later, when I learned about the intricacies of the game, and had resources to invest on my loadouts, left the Cronus forgotten in my Inventory. Why? because is a bad weapon, as simply as that.

It makes me sad to see I cannot work in my weapon and make it usable.

So I'm asking for either a re-stats or the creation of a variant Prime, Incarnon or Prisma (I don't think Vandal, Wraith, Tenet or Kuva fits the weapon thematically) that can actually be used, not necessarily on endless runs with lv 999 enemies, but at least on regular Steel Path.

[kirune]

I see that somebody else has tackled the same issue from a different angle.

 

[Pakaku]

That's just how it is with early-game weapons, they tend to be weak and not worth holding on to, or their riven mods. I'd say you're expected to move on to better stuff in order to progress anyways. So unless they do anything about helping out weaker weapons (such as Incarnons,) all mods will have the same problem where weaker weapons benefit less than stronger weapons.

If you need a sword suggestion to move onto, then here's a fun fact: the Dakra Prime is internally-named Cronus Prime... but as for what that means about actually getting a Cronus Prime, who knows. You will need a Dakra Prime riven though, it won't take any Cronus or other Dual Dakra rivens.

 

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Weeping Wounds + Voltaic Strike + Shocking Touch + Melee Influence.

 

Sorry, not sorry. Not everything has to be a crit stick. With just the few mods I listed and the arcane, you can wipe entire areas off enemies, since you'll have 108% status chance at 12x combo.

 

More than usable, if you're willing to build around a weapon's strength. Same exact thing with the Dark Sword (except it's a very stupid weapon, because with the same mod setup you can reach 240% status chance, thanks to its 40% base status chance).

Besides you have an "amazing Riven"... yeah, maybe for a normal Stat Stick.

 

The Cronus is usable, just not with your riven, because it doesn't have stats that suit it.

This thread just seems to me like a request to get the Ceramic Dagger modifier for base crit chance, just so you could abuse / sell the riven...

[Binket_]

On 2024-09-07 at 12:57 PM, kirune said:

I see that somebody else has tackled the same issue from a different angle.

Oh hey, that's me! Hello!
If I may be so bold, this issue also attributes to most Prime weapons as well. (and some other variants!)
I'll get to why that's relevant in a sec, but bare with me.

As an example:
There is no functional difference between the Gram Prime, the Galatine Prime, the Scindo Prime and the Masseter Prime.
Coincidentally, all the Prime Heavy Blades as of now. They add nothing over their previous iteration besides stats.
^{Yes, I know Masseter Prime has it's Grendel thing, but it's such a small thing with such a specific condition on a specific Warframe that it may as well not exist.}

As a result, you have effectively four Heavy Blades that are supposed to be upgrades that do nothing of value.
Yes, they have better stats-- but at their core? They're all the same.

Curiously, a Riven is supposed to fix this... but how? Make the stats all line up?
What's the point of that? Why? In that case, just make them all very similar with different damage spreads.
It begs the question of "why" in every capacity?

 

To expand on what I said in that comment and mostly because time has passed and I've learned more with it...
Weapons with gimmicks like Zenistar make the most use out of Rivens.
Usually because they have something to capitalize on a particular stat with.
Often something that can't be obtained with other mods or needs an excessive amount of. (E.g. Range, Critical, Status, etc.)

This also means the "Disposition" factor can affect a given weapon much more dramatically.
As people won't just shift over from Gram Prime to Galatine Prime because of a Disposition change after all.

Without a gimmick, you also get situations like the topical "Cronus" in a sea similarly boring swords.
Once you've used the Skana, you know how 90% of the swords will play.
^{Seriously, only the Skana and Jaw Sword have anything beyond their base stats to differ them... and Jaw Sword's Augment ain't enough on it's own.}

 

Gimmicks like Incarnons, Augments or just innates functions help differentiate the weapons in a category.
Rivens work best when the Disposition on it matters because there's not many alternatives.
It also prevents slightly more outdated gimmicks from becoming outright unviable.

That's not to say an idea like entirely fixes Rivens, but merely points in the right direction.
^{After all, we still got "The Riven Mafia" to deal with... and that's a much more elaborate issue for my skillset alone.}

 

I appreciate ya hearing me out though, have a good one!

 

On 2024-09-07 at 8:18 PM, Pakaku said:

the Dakra Prime is internally-named Cronus Prime

"Actually_Cronus_Prime" would be an hilarious inside joke as a result, but a PAIN to work with as a programmer.
Either way, it does sound like something DE would do.

 

 

On 2024-09-08 at 12:07 PM, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

Sorry, not sorry. Not everything has to be a crit stick. With just the few mods I listed and the arcane, you can wipe entire areas off enemies, since you'll have 108% status chance at 12x combo.

... it's 18% Status Chance. It's best stats is anything but glamorous.

Only the Jaw Sword and the Base Skana have worse Status Chance. With only 2% less.
The rest are either 18% or much higher. (e.g. Mire at 31%, Dark Sword at 40%)
However, both the Skana and Jaw Sword have Syndicate Augments... and the Skana has a variant AND Incarnon to use.

I get that you're trying to point out that it has SOME strengths... but they're not very good ones.
Like I said in my reply to OP? If a weapon has a ton of functionally identical clones, you're better off just picking the one that has the best stats in that department.
It also means Rivens tend to be "whatever has the best disposition-to-stats ratio" and less because it's actually good to use.

I know you mentioned that with your own Dark Sword example, but it's missing something:
It would be better to ask for a gimmick of it's own, rather than immediately defaulting to buffing it's stats.

"Good stats can make a weapon, sure... but a good gimmick is forever."

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Il y a 14 heures, Binket_ a dit :

... it's 18% Status Chance. It's best stats is anything but glamorous.

Only the Jaw Sword and the Base Skana have worse Status Chance. With only 2% less.
The rest are either 18% or much higher. (e.g. Mire at 31%, Dark Sword at 40%)
However, both the Skana and Jaw Sword have Syndicate Augments... and the Skana has a variant AND Incarnon to use.

I get that you're trying to point out that it has SOME strengths... but they're not very good ones.
Like I said in my reply to OP? If a weapon has a ton of functionally identical clones, you're better off just picking the one that has the best stats in that department.
It also means Rivens tend to be "whatever has the best disposition-to-stats ratio" and less because it's actually good to use.

I know you mentioned that with your own Dark Sword example, but it's missing something:
It would be better to ask for a gimmick of it's own, rather than immediately defaulting to buffing it's stats.

"Good stats can make a weapon, sure... but a good gimmick is forever."

Oh don't get me wrong, it's overall atrocious if you compare it to other more recent weapons or given care through extra forms / incarnons or augments, no denying it that, and I wasn't trying to.

But it is usable. By virtue of reaching at least 100% status chance with WW, it makes for decent fodder cleaning with Elec & Influence, but because of its slash weighting, it's also a decent Melee Afflictions user with Tennokai.

Cronus doesn't have a gimmick yet nor does it have an incarnon form yet. It could get one eventually, but it's still usable without one is what I'm trying to say. We're not speaking of a Stug right now.

[kirune]

Nowadays any weapon can be make usable if you pour enough resources into it. But that's it, usable. I think I left it clear enough in my opening statement. I'm not looking for usable, neither a stat stick, however you wanna call it. I'd like to enjoy the usage of the weapon. Right now I'm revisiting the Dual Ichor (thanks to its Incarnon form) and it is much more fun. Same with the Furis for which I'm even using the syndicate mod because it is silly fun, not optimal or min-maxed.

What I was saying is that there are some weapons left behind that deserve a second change. The Cronus is one of them.

hace 21 horas, Binket_ dijo:

To expand on what I said in that comment and mostly because time has passed and I've learned more with it...
Weapons with gimmicks like Zenistar make the most use out of Rivens.
Usually because they have something to capitalize on a particular stat with.
Often something that can't be obtained with other mods or needs an excessive amount of. (E.g. Range, Critical, Status, etc.)

Totally agree with that. That why I'm using now my Heliocor, because I've got a riven for it and it makes it for a much nicer/fun weapon to use. And elevates the gimmick weapon one step above.

En 8/9/2024 a las 17:07, Fred_Avant_2019 dijo:

This thread just seems to me like a request to get the Ceramic Dagger modifier for base crit chance, just so you could abuse / sell the riven...

OH, and I totally want to abuse my riven, or maybe sell it because my entire economy depends on the sole decision of DE to solve my game financial crisis...