Mod/Upgrade Screen - Warframe's Biggest Killer

[RavingRoman]

What is the first thing new players think when they see this?

 

They'll "Nope" out of the game faster than a Warframe can bullet jump out of a capture mission. For something so core to the game's function there is little explanation to how any of it works besides the slideshow you have to go out of your way, or the "Tutorial" at the bottom of the screen. Players need to be reigned in and made to understand how it works for weapons and frames. 

For something so complex, you have to resort to "You do it, You show Me how to do it, and Tell Me why it matters" 

Have Ordis run a quick tutorial VIDEO (imposed over the mod screen) on what a mod is, each individual part, point out how they affect the stat blocks on the left, and then an in-game display of the effects of having one equipped. The absolute basics. For anything more complex like synergy, damage calculation difference, or elemental combinations, you can have that alluded to verbally. Treat newcomers like they understand nothing of the game. 

For returners, those who forgot, or people who want to check back again, make the video replayable. But it has to be mandatory to play the FIRST time the player looks at the mod/upgrade screen. Only then you can allocate the video to the codex AFTER (Ordis) telling them that they can rewatch the video anytime there. 

 

 

I cannot stress how much this complexity scares away potential players that it is vital they need to at least have some pull forward on how to progress, especially for something that is a basic/core of the game. 

 

Hopefully this will be considered. Thank you.

[BurstDaVoir]

I think its a great idea that for new players there is a small video clip with a quick and comprehensive description of how not just Mod but everything. I really like the Idea that they can go back to the codex to watch that clip again any time, especially when some people just skip tutorial and then get lost and then they need to backtrack.

[Cherrygems219]

I personally dont feel this is a huge issue, especially cuz new players start out with very little mods, the amount you show rn isnt smth a new player sees, they see like 2 or 3 mods after they get first told they are able to upgrade. 

[RavingRoman]

2 hours ago, Cherrygems219 said:

I personally dont feel this is a huge issue, especially cuz new players start out with very little mods, the amount you show rn isnt smth a new player sees, they see like 2 or 3 mods after they get first told they are able to upgrade. 

While that is true, that does not mean players will understand how to use it. Most don't even experiment until maybe a few more hours later (while unmodded frames and weapons are still viable for beginners against level 1-10 enemies) and by then have at least 20 ISH mods. Then they have no idea what to do with them. 

[sXeth]

I think the complexity fear factor is a mite overstated. If the new player is looking at their own mod screen and not a video or overframe, theres a bare handful of options at all. With most early ones being pretty simplistic. It’s nothing beyond dozens of popular games.

For example fire up a fresh Minecraft game, open crafting and… it doesn’t even tell you how to make the planks for the one recipe it shows (and you might immediately wonder what to do if theres no oak trees around because it also doesn’t tell you wood is interchangeable) yet its the most popular game in history.

The big critique I brought up in my own video on it was that the early game didn’t engage you in that system. You could fairly easily get to at least Ceres without even having your shield dropped while playing without using parkour. To DEs credit they have tried to up the combat challenge and the engagement required a bit. But thats where people usually did the tutorial during Once Awake or for the junction then forgot about it til days later then had a flood of back pile mods.

[RavingRoman]

15 hours ago, sXeth said:

I think the complexity fear factor is a mite overstated. If the new player is looking at their own mod screen and not a video or overframe, theres a bare handful of options at all. With most early ones being pretty simplistic. It’s nothing beyond dozens of popular games.

For example fire up a fresh Minecraft game, open crafting and… it doesn’t even tell you how to make the planks for the one recipe it shows (and you might immediately wonder what to do if theres no oak trees around because it also doesn’t tell you wood is interchangeable) yet its the most popular game in history.

The big critique I brought up in my own video on it was that the early game didn’t engage you in that system. You could fairly easily get to at least Ceres without even having your shield dropped while playing without using parkour. To DEs credit they have tried to up the combat challenge and the engagement required a bit. But thats where people usually did the tutorial during Once Awake or for the junction then forgot about it til days later then had a flood of back pile mods.

Allow me to challenge that. 

Tackling your Minecraft analogy, did you know that minecraft on console actually has a recipe menu? You can actually choose between a selection of craftable items in your blueprints (with ingredients already in place, just being the matter of whether you have enough) because moving individual pieces into specific blocks with a controller is generally more cumbersome than with a mouse. And you're likely to have more paying casuals as per literally any gaming metric you can look up. Warframe does not have this same feature, so starting with the analogy; the complexity factor CANNOT be overstated. 

To drive this point even further, let's look among PC players who have even downloaded and played warframe.

 

Using steam achievements, while not representative of the entire PC market, let alone the entirety of Warframe's player count; a couple hundred thousand by low-balling with Warframe's all time peak would be a decent sample size... which is already skewing the stats to Warframe's favor. Slightly less than half have placed ONE mod unto their weapon or warframe. And the rate of FAILURE to put 4 is at 64.2%. For PC players which not only tend to be more technically endowed in games than with console. Imagine the market that DE is missing out because of the simple idea that the core mechanic of modding being too complex escapes us. 

 

Your second paragraph is definitely something to be considered and I fully agree to, with my own ideas but that's another discussion to be had on a different thread. Right now, the fact remains whether by analogy or cold hard numbers, there is no other Warframe-Killer than the unguided mods/upgrade screen. 

Edited September 20 by RavingRoman

[sXeth]

6 hours ago, RavingRoman said:

Allow me to challenge that. 

Tackling your Minecraft analogy, did you know that minecraft on console actually has a recipe menu? You can actually choose between a selection of craftable items in your blueprints (with ingredients already in place, just being the matter of whether you have enough) because moving individual pieces into specific blocks with a controller is generally more cumbersome than with a mouse. And you're likely to have more paying casuals as per literally any gaming metric you can look up. Warframe does not have this same feature, so starting with the analogy; the complexity factor CANNOT be overstated. 

To drive this point even further, let's look among PC players who have even downloaded and played warframe.

 

Using steam achievements, while not representative of the entire PC market, let alone the entirety of Warframe's player count; a couple hundred thousand by low-balling with Warframe's all time peak would be a decent sample size... which is already skewing the stats to Warframe's favor. Slightly less than half have placed ONE mod unto their weapon or warframe. And the rate of FAILURE to put 4 is at 64.2%. For PC players which not only tend to be more technically endowed in games than with console. Imagine the market that DE is missing out because of the simple idea that the core mechanic of modding being too complex escapes us. 

 

Your second paragraph is definitely something to be considered and I fully agree to, with my own ideas but that's another discussion to be had on a different thread. Right now, the fact remains whether by analogy or cold hard numbers, there is no other Warframe-Killer than the unguided mods/upgrade screen. 

Trophies don’t translate to much in free to play games. You could try and analyze the data but the trophies would have to pretty well dispersed at specific milestones. Heck, even paid games you will keep seeing 10-15% haven’t gotten some for literally starting a game. On PlayStation there’s already a 25% drop just for the earliest possible one I could find (reach Rank 2 with any Warframe). Some other early ones are 4 mods on a weapon (more then the tutorial demands and the junction is a rank up fusin) at 47%, 10 hacks at 59%, or play 10 hours at 31%. More people actually manage the mod stuff then just lasting 10 hours which won’t even require mods to do for most people.

 

As Minecraft goes, here’s exactly what you see on Bedrock\Console when you open crafting (plus clicking on the one obvious thing)

https://imgur.com/a/w3SXFtO . You eventually will see more but not as a newbie. And the L3 just moves the cursor between the two tabs. The L2/R2 just changes between tyst expanded layout or the smaller inventory one.
 

 

 

Edited September 20 by sXeth

[RavingRoman]

1 hour ago, sXeth said:

10 hacks at 59%, or play 10 hours at 31%. More people actually manage the mod stuff then just lasting 10 hours which won’t even require mods to do for most people.

That just tells me after the first couple of hours of playing, their experience is already hampered and they won't even try to play through Venus, a new faction, two boss fights, two open worlds, and two quests. Because that is somehow not engaging? Or is it because mods had already left a bad taste in their mouths? I mean with the least amount of assumption, that is the simplest explanation. 

Edited September 20 by RavingRoman

[sXeth]

On 2024-09-20 at 6:40 AM, RavingRoman said:

That just tells me after the first couple of hours of playing, their experience is already hampered and they won't even try to play through Venus, a new faction, two boss fights, two open worlds, and two quests. Because that is somehow not engaging? Or is it because mods had already left a bad taste in their mouths? I mean with the least amount of assumption, that is the simplest explanation. 

Or 60% of literally everyone with a PlayStation in this case simply doesn’t have an interest in the setting or style of game. Post humanity mostly-hard sci-fi is more then a little niche.
 

Remember they had trouble getting big publishers to buy into the game because they didnt think it would be  popular enough. And sure thats a got that sheen of “AAA publishers don’t like risks” but its really only the definition of “enough” that comes up. It wasn’t a completely inaccurate statement. Genres have their ups and downs but if you can keep 40% engaged that’s close to winning elections nowadays .

To take some other examples of early trophies free to play (or free on psplus) games.

Absolver - only 40% of people picked up a weapon.

Brawlhalla - less then 30% reached account level 10, around 40% played 3 games in the matchmaking 

Crossout - The one trophy I got in like, 20 minutes or less only has 22%

Dauntless - Craft a Weapon only at 55% (if you don’t know Dauntless its a variant of Monster Hunter, this is probably literally in the first hour)

DC Universe Online - All of the trophies ate below 3% lol

Destiny 2 - the only one thats over 35% is reach level 20 (which is 90%, heck of a dropoff)

Foamstarz - < 40% have won a single match

Helldivers (1) - 60% for some very basic ones but then stuff like play one  mission against each race plummets down to 38.

Killing Floor 2 - A bunch ranging from 40-50%

Minecraft (not free but for giggles) - 46% have made one of each tool. Around 60% - 70% for the even more basic ones. (Disclaimer point, many people use altered difficulty settings or outright Creative mode and disable trophies)

Monster Hunter World - 60% beat Low rank.

Paladins - 52% tutorial completion.

Path of Exile - 26% killed Merveil (the first boss)

As far as people I would expect to enjoy tye game that I’ve introduced to it. Usually its the crafting times, or they see something like Railjack then realized its way farther in, or in more then a few cases they just hate the base Warframe designs (again the aesthetics can also be kind of weird and niche)

 

 

[RavingRoman]

On 2024-09-22 at 4:13 AM, sXeth said:

60% of literally everyone

60% Is rather large to be entirely only be because a lack of interest of the game's aesthetics. In today's gaming, by the time you're downloading a 40 Gigabyte game file; you've already gotten a glimpse of how the game looks. No one totally enters blind. And say they didn't like it already but were curious, that mod screen becomes the first killer wall or poison pill for the rest of the experience. 

Now I'm curious. Versus all of those stats you have listed for other games.... what's Warframe's % on the playstation trophies for "We Shape Our Tools" and "Our Tools Shape Us"?

https://psnprofiles.com/trophies/11919-warframe

69% .... nice. But for something literally in the 1st hour of the game. A 31% drop off hurts... a lot. 

Edited September 24 by RavingRoman