It's just not fun anymore

[Haleks]

2 minutes ago, -ShadowRadiance- said:

If it where a game node where she is the go to pick? 

I seriously doubt that, whatever the context, a quatuor of TS Titanias was the envisioned play style by DE.

2 minutes ago, -ShadowRadiance- said:

Read everything after this, in Goofy's voice. *Ahoyk noises*

Thank you, but no.

[Xzorn]

To my knowledge DE has always catered to new player experience.

Even when they make it took like they're creating end-game content they're really just expanding lower end. When Sorties came out players were already doing 400+ Solo. Steel Path scaling mixed with Enemy Defense Scaling nerfs made the game easier only serving to smooth progression for newer players.

DE used to have a fixation over room nuking level 30 enemies when said nuke was near useless later in levels.
We asked for years for DE to just let us fight higher level enemies. They refused. Now that part of the game is gone.

[Lord_Drod]

Thermal isn't even as popular as slamkongs now.  I'm sure you'll have trouble racing them as well.  There's a bunch of setups that can wipe exterms fast.  Deleting gauss from game wouldn't change anything right now.

They do not need to nerf every available nuke so you can get some digs in with your single target clogs or your huge boom stick with 5 movement speed.

This is not new.  Warframe has always been this way.  You have never been able to bring slow setups to exterm fissure and get kills...at least not in the past 6 years.

[Zakkhar]

31 minutes ago, Haleks said:

Too slow or inadequate ? Are you kidding me ?

By that logic, everyone has to play Titania over any of the 50+ warframes available or be told to play another game. What kind of backward pseudo-elitist logic is that ? For something as dumb & easy as a TS Titania ?

Sometimes it feels like half the people here worry more about whatever cheesy meta they love to engage with than the quality of the game they play...

This is a mission. Mission objectives are clear. I am happy the mission objectives are complete - if one player "carried" the mission I do not automatically feel the need to play his setup or to compete with him for %dmg or kill on end mission screen. I also do not care how complicated it was for him to achieve. I get my rewards and move on. There is nothing elytists about it.

Edited Wednesday at 05:26 PM by Zakkhar

[Zakkhar]

33 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

I literally prefer Survival relics to Capture/Exterm ones, because it's more fun.

You do you. But OP wants eveyone to do him, because reasons...

[Zakkhar]

1 hour ago, 4thBro said:

I think the focal point of the OP's thread is about how frequently this happens for him.

It doesnt happen to him. He just joins the exact mission types, where this playstyle is most efficient and therefore most common.

It is like he is going camping and picks a camping spot either near slaughterhouse and complaining on smell, or near an airport and complaining on noise. And instead of changing this behaviour he keeps doing it, blaming everything (and everyone) around, just not himself.

Edited Wednesday at 05:35 PM by Zakkhar

[Traumtulpe]

Just a small correction: The objective in a defense mission is twofold.

1) Don't let the pod / operative die.

2) Kill everything.

You cannot complete the mission without doing either of those.

[-ShadowRadiance-]

4 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

It doesnt happen to him. He just joins the exact mission types, where this playstyle is most efficient and therefore most common.

It is like he is going camping and picks a camping spot either near slaughterhouse and complaining on smell, or near an airport and complaining on noise. And instead of changing this behaviour he keeps doing it, blaming everything (and everyone) around, just not himself.

Go to a steakhouse and demand a vegan menu.

[dwqrf]

il y a 4 minutes, Traumtulpe a dit :

Just a small correction: The objective in a defense mission is twofold.

1) Don't let the pod / operative die.

2) Kill everything.

You cannot complete the mission without doing either of those.

And if there is a max range Frost or Gara you aren't going to do either of those.

[4thBro]

2 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

And if there is a max range Frost or Gara you aren't going to do either of those.

 

Gara, yes.

 

... But Frost??? What is this, Normal Hydron?

[Karyst]

3 hours ago, Haleks said:

I don't understand why DE is obsessing so much about "new player experience" when, to me at least, the biggest problem with Warframe is the total lack of balance. Pretty much every single session I played these past weeks had a Gauss - or worst, a Titania - zipping through levels while spamming Thermal Sunder, be it in normal or SP chart... Where's the fun in running behind a noisy fireworks fest that obliterates everything before you even have a chance to lay eyes on it ?

It's mindblowing to me that DE would invest so much efforts through several major updates to improve the new player experience (which, arguably, is unnecessary - everything from the prologue to The Sacrfice being perfectly fine), while ignoring relatively easy (nerf goddamn Thermal Sunder already!) or urgent fixes that would, most likely, benefit player retention. It is way too easy currently for a team member to completely ruin a session for others, to the point that I'm finding myself quitting games whenever I see a Titania (or a Mirage, or a Gauss) joining the party. The power creep is so prevalent that the recent damage rework had absolutely no effect whatsoever - a returning player probably wouldn't even realize that damage has been "overhauled" recently.

 

I mean, I had more fun trying The First Descendant, even though its gameplay is extremely basic and its artistical direction so blend that it feels like watching an AI-generated poster...

Look at this from business point of view and perhaps you may understand. Likewise, Warframe I'd power fantasy game, there is no balance intended here.

[Chollynn]

There will always be ways to clear content fast. Bullet jump was added because players liked to be fast. When things get out of hand they nerf things, like the AOE meta a not too long ago. But I don't see any signs them even thinking about nerfing TS. Just a few months ago Sevagoth got a big buff that made him stronger than any nuke, imo. I like to play Omnia Fissures and people use Seva all the time, but I don't care. It is a fissure, it is all about efficiency.

Speed-runners don't really care about normal missions. I don't think anyone want to waste their own time there. People farm kuva, fissure, nightmare and other unique missions, but not normal ones. I'm sure it is a very rare thing to see speed-runners there.

Quote

It's mindblowing to me that DE would invest so much efforts through several major updates to improve the new player experience (which, arguably, is unnecessary -

WHATTTTT???????????? New Player Experience is one of the most important part of the game. It is nowhere near fine, not even ok. Between Vor and Natah there is almost nothing that leads the player, I know many players who left WF because they didn't know what they should do or how should they do (for example: modding, where to go on the path, what to and where to farm, and so on).

[KitMeHarder]

3 hours ago, Haleks said:

Pretty much every single session I played these past weeks had a Gauss - or worst, a Titania - zipping through levels while spamming Thermal Sunder, be it in normal or SP chart... Where's the fun in running behind a noisy fireworks fest that obliterates everything before you even have a chance to lay eyes on it ?

The biggest cap I've ever heard. Show me one video of Titania leaving you "running behind a noisy fireworks fest" in SP. Otherwise, I have some very choice words for you.

I also can not believe how many of you come of as practically only playing short-form fissure missions and nothing else.

3 hours ago, Haleks said:

The power creep is so prevalent that the recent damage rework had absolutely no effect whatsoever - a returning player probably wouldn't even realize that damage has been "overhauled" recently.

It wasn't supposed to nerf anything (even though for a few things it did). It was supposed to make everything kill as fast as the armor removing/armor bypassing methods of the past system.

It was literally meant to make everything kill as fast as the old meta, not slow us down.

[GEN-Son_17]

4 hours ago, Haleks said:

I don't understand why DE is obsessing so much about "new player experience" when, to me at least, the biggest problem with Warframe is the total lack of balance. Pretty much every single session I played these past weeks had a Gauss - or worst, a Titania - zipping through levels while spamming Thermal Sunder, be it in normal or SP chart... Where's the fun in running behind a noisy fireworks fest that obliterates everything before you even have a chance to lay eyes on it ?

It's mindblowing to me that DE would invest so much efforts through several major updates to improve the new player experience (which, arguably, is unnecessary - everything from the prologue to The Sacrfice being perfectly fine), while ignoring relatively easy (nerf goddamn Thermal Sunder already!) or urgent fixes that would, most likely, benefit player retention. It is way too easy currently for a team member to completely ruin a session for others, to the point that I'm finding myself quitting games whenever I see a Titania (or a Mirage, or a Gauss) joining the party. The power creep is so prevalent that the recent damage rework had absolutely no effect whatsoever - a returning player probably wouldn't even realize that damage has been "overhauled" recently.

 

I mean, I had more fun trying The First Descendant, even though its gameplay is extremely basic and its artistical direction so blend that it feels like watching an AI-generated poster...

Honestly speaking, you shouldn't be complaining about a controllable situation. You are given 100% control over every mission you do, whether it be solo play, with friends, with clan mates, or via a very useful recruit chat. Try setting up a group of players that for the conditions you would like to play under. You could gain a cool crew from this and change your experience altogether. Coming here to complain about a choice to go with random play is not going to cut it.

[Xzorn]

17 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

It wasn't supposed to nerf anything (even though for a few things it did). It was supposed to make everything kill as fast as the armor removing/armor bypassing methods of the past system.

It was literally meant to make everything kill as fast as the old meta, not slow us down.

 

They increased Enemy HP Scaling by some margin. Something they shouldn't have touched in the first place 5 years ago.

The Damage Multipliers aren't as noticeable because status effects are greatly overpowered.

I remember when players used to say Viral causing enemies to have half health was OP at best +100%. Now it's +400%.

 

Edited Wednesday at 06:38 PM by Xzorn

[Kaiga]

16 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

The biggest cap I've ever heard. Show me one video of Titania leaving you "running behind a noisy fireworks fest" in SP. Otherwise, I have some very choice words for you.

I can show you a video of a player with two items (kullervo and the magistar incarnon) doing 600 million double red crit damage to netracell enemies in a huge area every attack.

The game is entirely too easy, to the point where it resembles dynasty warriors, at its endgame. 

Something tells me that wasn't the goal.

[Vaml77]

4 hours ago, Haleks said:

I don't understand why DE is obsessing so much about "new player experience" when, to me at least, the biggest problem with Warframe is the total lack of balance. Pretty much every single session I played these past weeks had a Gauss - or worst, a Titania - zipping through levels while spamming Thermal Sunder, be it in normal or SP chart... Where's the fun in running behind a noisy fireworks fest that obliterates everything before you even have a chance to lay eyes on it ?

It's mindblowing to me that DE would invest so much efforts through several major updates to improve the new player experience (which, arguably, is unnecessary - everything from the prologue to The Sacrfice being perfectly fine), while ignoring relatively easy (nerf goddamn Thermal Sunder already!) or urgent fixes that would, most likely, benefit player retention. It is way too easy currently for a team member to completely ruin a session for others, to the point that I'm finding myself quitting games whenever I see a Titania (or a Mirage, or a Gauss) joining the party. The power creep is so prevalent that the recent damage rework had absolutely no effect whatsoever - a returning player probably wouldn't even realize that damage has been "overhauled" recently.

 

I mean, I had more fun trying The First Descendant, even though its gameplay is extremely basic and its artistical direction so blend that it feels like watching an AI-generated poster...

Warframe is a game at the end of its career. Accepting this is more natural. For those who are just arriving now, it is normal to question this and other issues. Warframe is a game with a high player turnover, despite being f2p, don't expect much from it.

[Aruquae]

6 minutes ago, Kaiga said:

I can show you a video of a player with two items (kullervo and the magistar incarnon) doing 600 million double red crit damage to netracell enemies in a huge area every attack.

The game is entirely too easy, to the point where it resembles dynasty warriors, at its endgame. 

Something tells me that wasn't the goal.

I love this, the irony. Unless the devs straight up destroy all the damage calcs to balance everything ground up, it's staying like this.
Why is it ironic? I remember when Netracell released and everyone was complaining how hard it is, and others loving how it was "endgame." It felt "tough." This shows the change and how adaptable warframe players are. Remember when the Devs tried to make challenging content with Archon Hunt? Boom, players found out how to trivialize it. Steel Path? Hard, then players adapt to the point where they can trivialize it. 

Idk, this just made me smile knowing full well DE could send us any type of "endgame," but if that endgame isn't just straight up no mods, then we will always find a way past it.

[Haleks]

37 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

It doesnt happen to him. He just joins the exact mission types, where this playstyle is most efficient and therefore most common.

It is like he is going camping and picks a camping spot either near slaughterhouse and complaining on smell, or near an airport and complaining on noise. And instead of changing this behaviour he keeps doing it, blaming everything (and everyone) around, just not himself.

Thank you Einstein, but no, I'm not discovering that people farm relic missions... It's not even about what mission type is being played : there is no mission where one would benefit from taking it slow - pretty much everyone is looking for optimal builds (which, you know, basically is the core mechanic of WF & its mod system), so I don't know why you're even bringing that up.

 

What I don't get is how some of you seem to have a problem with me not playing the game correctly (allegedly), but seem perfectly fine with a system so easy to exploit, that one has to actively go out of his way to try and find a somewhat balanced session.

And, at the same time, saying that new player experience is important. 

 

[KitMeHarder]

4 hours ago, Xzorn said:

I remember when players used to say Viral causing enemies to have half health was OP at best +100%.

There will always be someone out there to call anything "OP".

And I was more of a new player back then, but I and most of the people I watched, called old viral very mid. Not only was corrosive and slash extremely better, but old viral could even be worthless. If you let the proc fall off even once, all that "bonus damage" you got was completely nullified, and I believe the proc duration was even only 4 seconds back then.

4 hours ago, Kaiga said:

I can show you a video of a player with two items (kullervo and the magistar incarnon) doing 600 million double red crit damage to netracell enemies in a huge area every attack.

And? That wasn't the OP's complaint.

Not to mention most endless and endless-adjacent modes often have plenty of enemies for all players to have their fun. Almost no nuke build can kill so fast in SP survival that the other players are left "running behind a noisy fireworks fest". They'll have their half-a-dozen enemies at any given time to pink down with their Karak.

4 hours ago, Kaiga said:

Something tells me that wasn't the goal.

According to what? Everything I've seen has pointed the game in this direction since late 2013, but especially since 2016ish. And I personally enjoy WF being that kind of game for myself and game-market at large.

When people make claims like these it's often a mix of misremembering/misunderstanding the game from when they were a new player, and/or it's their first time playing a game in this genre/reaching the endgame in this genre.

Edited Wednesday at 11:13 PM by KitMeHarder

[Haleks]

2 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

 

And? That wasn't the OP's complaint.

 

It kinda is.

[4thBro]

5 minutes ago, Aruquae said:

I love this, the irony. Unless the devs straight up destroy all the damage calcs to balance everything ground up, it's staying like this.
Why is it ironic? I remember when Netracell released and everyone was complaining how hard it is, and others loving how it was "endgame." It felt "tough." This shows the change and how adaptable warframe players are. Remember when the Devs tried to make challenging content with Archon Hunt? Boom, players found out how to trivialize it. Steel Path? Hard, then players adapt to the point where they can trivialize it. 

Idk, this just made me smile knowing full well DE could send us any type of "endgame," but if that endgame isn't just straight up no mods, then we will always find a way past it.

For what it's worth, I don't think those were the SAME players saying both of these things.

 

I was on a long, LONG hiatus from Warframe (as one does). When I came back, surprise, Netracells and EDA!

But when I got into them... there was nothing to really adapt to.

Netracells are as trivial as any other Steel Path mission. I didn't have to even adjust to anything, other than learning the map spawn methods to quickly find the key console without needing to hack to narrow it down.

EDA's were basically the same as Duviri in regards to randomized loadouts, which I was already familiar with. Luckily, the max reward is pointless, so I'm allowed 1 flex slot, which is enough to carry any EDA easily. Sometimes the modifiers are annoying, but that's not really difficulty anyway.

 

Taking things away from the player is not proper difficulty.

(This is the same approach as this guy with the "MR0 Netracells" thread that everyone is bashing him for, yet when it comes to DE doing the same thing, it's nothing but praise???)

 

 

 

 

But yeah. I don't think it's the same players saying both of those things.

[4thBro]

RIP, thanks, forum servers.

Edited Wednesday at 07:26 PM by 4thBro

[4thBro]

Holy crap it made me triple post.

Edited Wednesday at 07:27 PM by 4thBro

[KitMeHarder]

21 minutes ago, Haleks said:

It kinda is.

You didn't do a good job of articulating it then. Nor have you clarified the points I made in my first post.

• You think Titania can nuke SP.
• You think the damage rework was designed to nerf us.
• You say everything dies so fast that you see no enemies. And I'm supposed to believe that applies to the entire game, and not just the small subset of missions I called you out for likely playing?
• Etc...

So then I'm supposed to heed your word and assume you're talking about more than the 3 frames you mentioned and in the few scenarios you talked about them in as well?

Not to mention you even brought up TFD in the end like it helps your point. Have you not played with a Bunny in literally any non-Colossus mission? Or an Ultimate Lepic/Gley in the Colossus fights? Not to mention, even if you have, the game's so new they probably haven't min/maxed their build yet like we have in WF (and you think "powercreep" won't come with the years?). This is literally the genre. If it's not for you that's fine, but don't try and ruin it because you don't know what you got yourself into.

Edited Wednesday at 07:29 PM by KitMeHarder