Suggestion: Generic Incarnon Adapters

[Traumtulpe]

There's a bunch of weapons that were never good or have fallen out of favour since the introduction of Incarnon adapters - even Kuva weapons are in many cases no longer relevant.

Since there is realistically no way DE is going to release Incarnon adapters for all available weapons, how about a stopgap measure; Generic Incarnon adapters. They'd fit on any weapon of a certain type (say dual pistols for one of them), even those that already have a unique Incarnon adapter, and override any potential alt-fire (to keep things really simple for DE). They would also be weaker than unique Incarnon adapters, and somewhat "basic", to not restrict the design space going forward.

Alternatively they could, instead of overriding existing alt-fires, just trigger automatically when full, or replace the alt-fire only when fully charged, or have a triggering condition even.

Good idea or not?

[(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE]

As one of the people who originally suggested Incarnon Adapters, DE has missed the point.
The alt fires they have added to every single incarnon has made them effectively a new weapon, with it's own balance issues, fans, and problems.

My original suggestion was to add the basic incarnon mutations to underused weapons, not add alt fires.

Now most of the people who use these incarnons don't use them for the basic fire, but for the alt fire.

In this new system DE has created, fans of the older weapons are left in a state of worry over dispo changes, that haven't come yet, but honestly how can they not get nerfed? If they nerf the alt fires, which would be the right thing to do, all new fans would scream. (they said they weren't gonna change dispos, so I'm also wondering if we can expect higher enemy levels more often)

I only have like 4 or 5 incarnon weapons, but they are so strong I struggle to use anything else.

My biggest complaint is weapons that are single target damage, should do more damage per shot against AOE weapons which should do less per shot but more overall due to hitting multiple enemies at once. My favorite weapon: the Latron feels like a slap in a face here. Yeah hit a button, get AOE, another 2 base CD, and over 100% more CC. Why use the base fire at ALL? 3 shots and you can use the alt again.

Original post I am referring to: 

This was made 6 months before the Incarnon adapters were even announced.

This is all to say, your idea I agree with, it's what should've happened, but altfires are too strong.
If you add a Generic Incarnon, with altfires based on weapon type, then people will use the weapon in that weapon type with the highest disposition, and use the altfire as if it was the only fire mode.

Incarnons should make a weapon more of what it is, not a new weapon.

Edited 2 hours ago by (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE

[Traumtulpe]

12 minutes ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

My favorite weapon: the Latron feels like a slap in a face here. Yeah hit a button, get AOE, another 2 base CD, and over 100% more CC. Why use the base fire at ALL? 3 shots and you can use the alt again.

My favourite is also the Latron, but the regular mode is awesome (that's partly why it's my favourite of the Incarnons)! I only really switch for enemies with damage attenuation, as more crit usually means faster kills (and the bouncing balls can double hit). Have a look at this, the Latron rocks:

 

[(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE]

Just now, Traumtulpe said:

My favourite is also the Latron, but the regular mode is awesome (that's partly why it's my favourite of the Incarnons)! I only really switch for enemies with damage attenuation, as more crit usually means faster kills (and the bouncing balls can double hit). Have a look at this, the Latron rocks:

 

You made your Latron Fully Automatic.
I have never been more disgusted or proud in my life.

Also I know the Latron Slaps.

It has been my favorite long before the incarnon system. I've hunted eidolons with it as long as I can remember.
My riven is CC, CD, Elec, -Puncture.

Whatever element I put on there: Corrosive or radiation, becomes my base damage.
Base Fire has 223% CC, 10.3 CD, and then double tap doing it's thing.

[Vaml77]

terrible idea

[Pakaku]

54 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

a bunch of weapons that were never good or have fallen out of favour

There are also a bunch of weapons that were always good and have forced other weapons out of favour due to power creep. A generic adapter would boost weaker weapons but they would also be equally usable on stronger weapons. And asking for restrictions on how powerful a generic adapter can be doesn't really help the weaker weapons as much anyways

[(PSN)Pablogamer585]

I am absolutely against Incarnon Genesises, the points Ghillie has mentioned are my thoughts exactly and I've reflected them on my own arsenal thread and lots of other threads as well. Problem with genesises is they override the original weapon.
It's not the same to get a pure incarnon, as were the Laetum or Ruvox which have very interesting aspects and upgrades orientated towards how the weapon is by itself while remaining dumb fun on base state, than is the genesises which primarily focus on reinforcing the weapon stats because they cannot compete by themselves and then have a separate mode with extremely good base stats. Though I'm 0% worried about riven dispo changes, I never cared for those.

Now then, the genesises aren't wrong for reinforcing the weapons they are added to, as ultimately the upgrades make them better even on their default firing modes as you've exemplified with the Latron which I see all three of us like as that semi-auto headpopper, and sometimes even provide upgrades which are worth more than a single mod slot, which is fantastic since modding is quite the issue sometimes.
Not a fan of most of the trigger conditionals though, limits a lot which frame you can play with and stills lots of the perk choices are mind-numbing terrible in contrast to a single of them despite having good intentions: i.e. Miter's hold fire to charge a blade so it has more AoE which is totally overshadowed by the additional crit chance.

Bearing that in mind, I wouldn't be against a generic incarnon adapter as you suggest Traum, so long as it served as a way to upgrade my weapon and nothing more, or provided them with alt-fires that did not deviate from the weapon's essence. I exemplified this with the Tigris were we to get an incarnon; I'd like for it to be my trusty base 2 barrels of Doom, and if I get an alt fire, well, don't make me transform it into something else but just tapping the alt fire button for it to release one of the charges for a more 'blended' and dynamic gameplay, or provide me with 'special ammo' for some time, like pellets with infinite body punch-through and that forcefully cause bleed or heat.
For the Gorgon the idea was something similar, since this one is abhorrent going from an LMG to an auto explosive spike launcher that is far from amusing or competent in contrast to lots of others of these incarnons. Just, let me go overheat and give me +fire damage to all my shots the longer I shoot or something cool of sorts which can also be controlled via the perks.

I'd like for each incarnon to feel more unique than it does now, not so much "just shoot bad guys on the head and bingo bango bongo", but perhaps more tied to "hey, spend more ammo for longer, hey do this other thing" which jumps from weapon to weapon and fits better their style. But what I want, is the weapon I know and love to be what it always has been. Also I always say to make genesises only for weapon with lacklustre variants within their factions, for I believe a simple variant with better stats can oftentimes be more than enough, moreover if it comes with their own mechanics as did most of the Tenet weapons in contrast to the Kuva ones.

[quxier]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

As one of the people who originally suggested Incarnon Adapters, DE has missed the point.
The alt fires they have added to every single incarnon has made them effectively a new weapon, with it's own balance issues, fans, and problems.

My original suggestion was to add the basic incarnon mutations to underused weapons, not add alt fires.

Now most of the people who use these incarnons don't use them for the basic fire, but for the alt fire.

That's because alt-fire is basically "better" version (in lots of cases). Why I would like to use single shot where I can have some AoE? Even build-in incarnons have such issues. They basically nerfed base version so you have stupid long change.

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Pablogamer585 said:

Problem with genesises is they override the original weapon.

I used to feel this way somewhat.  Now I like that I usually get two very different weapons in one slot.

I do wish DE had taken the more difficult approach of both modes offering interesting advantages though, rather than normal mode mostly being completely overshadowed by Incarnon.