Dev Workshop: Koumei & the Five Fates - Caliban + Nova Rework

[Flackenstien]

These changes are unbelievably nice.    

I always thought Caliban was decent; just shy of good. Now he's shaping up to be a very solid and fun frame.    

The Nova changes are just.. wow. Simple, but great. This is what many older Warframes should get. A freshening up that doesn't really change anything, but makes them nicer to play in 2024 and beyond.  

Hildryn's tweaks sound awesome. Pillage in Aegis Storm was a long time coming. The increased movement and even more damage on her blasters? Definitely a welcome change.  
If I could suggest anything else, I'd say to remove the Shield cost of her dash roll during Aegis Storm and make it travel further. Additionally, let her twin Balefires during Aegis Storm fire alternatively, so they can be a bit faster.

Edited October 2 by Flackenstien

[(PSN)Crazy_Mr_J]

@[DE]Sam@[DE]Momaw@[DE]Pablo

I've some comments about this changes/reworks with some ideas for me, a better QOL, particularly for Nova

All of the changes on Nova sounds great, except for two things i considers so annoying.

First, for Wormholes, removed Duration based is great, but a problem occurs with this change : we can't removed Wormholes except by casting new ones or using the 4 charges. For me, the "holding effect for seeing the destination" could be used in a better way for avoid this problem. My idea is, when you AIM a particular portal and hold the Ability's button, you removed this Wormhole. If you don't aim a particular portal and hold the Ability's button, you removed ALL Wormholes in place of.

Second, for Molecular Prime, i don't really likes how the Tap/Hold functionality will be. For me, Hold functionality could be like Ivara's Arrows (or Wisp or Xaku, and so on...) for change the Function between Slow or Speed, and use Tap for cast.

Finally, i like the Caliban rework on paper, but i'd like to see Caliban using Overguard with his 1st, maybe with an Augment ? or Overguard with the Sentients ? i don't know, but i'm affraid about his survivability in High Levels only with his 50% max Adaptation if we used shield-based build (his strenght for me). Maybe his Passive could be higher for his shields ? reach 90% for Shields ?

For other things, nothing to says. In one hand, no problem for me about the "Wukong Nerf", cause i've never used him like that, and in the other hand, all other things seems promising for me

EDIt : ho and i've missing a question !!! what about Zerova ? Zero if we don't wants Slow or Speed effect. Always possible with Overextended ? Need to haves the Overextended Rank 4 now in place of Rank 2 ?

Edited October 2 by (PSN)Crazy_Mr_J
add question about Zerova

[HeavyFarms]

49 minutes ago, (PSN)Crazy_Mr_J said:

Second, for Molecular Prime, i don't really likes how the Tap/Hold functionality will be. For me, Hold functionality could be like Ivara's Arrows (or Wisp or Xaku, and so on...) for change the Function between Slow or Speed, and use Tap for cast.

You don't really need a 3 abillity ivara/wisp/xaku hold functionality for an ability that has 2 modes. 

truth be told, I'd love if the tap/hold function was expanded and given to equinox. (Replace equinox 1 then make the rest of the kit tap for one, hold for variant.)

[(PSN)Crazy_Mr_J]

9 minutes ago, HeavyFarms said:

You don't really need a 3 abillity ivara/wisp/xaku hold functionality for an ability that has 2 modes. 

truth be told, I'd love if the tap/hold function was expanded and given to equinox. (Replace equinox 1 then make the rest of the kit tap for one, hold for variant.)

I understand what you means, and i don't know if it's "pleasant" with Keyboard and Mouse, but with a pad, when you move fast on the map, it's not really pleasant to hold cast if you wants to cast really fastly in a pleasant way (for me). I'm a Yellow Archon Shards enthusiast (like previously with Natural talent for Casting Speed), and loves the mobility in Warframe, and generaly don't likes to being "static" too much for casting abilities. That's explain why i'm playing with Paddles on console, for haves more pleasant mobility 😀

Edited October 2 by (PSN)Crazy_Mr_J

[ShogunGunshow]

I am very curious as to whether Null Star is getting a nerf on Helminth now or not. 

[(PSN)Sentiel]

1 minute ago, ShogunGunshow said:

I am very curious as to whether Null Star is getting a nerf on Helminth now or not. 

It should be capped at 75%DR as a subsumed ability.

[NecroPed]

Finally Nova gets the press/hold treatment and some extra bits. Very excited for one of my favourite frames to get such a wonderful update. Superb stuff coming soon, can't wait. 

[nicolajtheking2]

6 hours ago, (PSN)Sentiel said:

It should be capped at 75%DR as a subsumed ability.

TBH 75% might be a bit too much for a subsume ability, don't get me wrong, I love having strong abilities, but in order to reduce the chance of an unneeded nerf to the base ability, then I think it would be better for it to be capped at around 60-65%

[(PSN)Sentiel]

24 minutes ago, nicolajtheking2 said:

TBH 75% might be a bit too much for a subsume ability, don't get me wrong, I love having strong abilities, but in order to reduce the chance of an unneeded nerf to the base ability, then I think it would be better for it to be capped at around 60-65%

75% isn't worth using unless the frame lacks any form of reliable survivability tools (e.g.: Gyre). We usually stack multiples of 90% (e.g.: Nezha with Adaptation) on top of our native DR from Shields or Armor and still can get killed, so 75% doesn't really provide that much. Lastly, Eclipse already gives us 75% DR.

[ShogunGunshow]

15 minutes ago, (PSN)Sentiel said:

75% isn't worth using unless the frame lacks any form of reliable survivability tools (e.g.: Gyre). We usually stack multiples of 90% (e.g.: Nezha with Adaptation) on top of our native DR from Shields or Armor and still can get killed, so 75% doesn't really provide that much. Lastly, Eclipse already gives us 75% DR.

Was gonna say.

Also, Null Star has been at 90% since it was put in the Helminth, it was just way annoying to get there and use compared to other options.

[Tr0yMC]

You are really unimaginative, yet another defense mission🤦‍♂️. It's boring in the long run, but you have so many options. Can't you do something else, for example in the open worlds like these event missions?

[ToxicReflexes]

Can we please get zenistar incarnon, favorite weapon lost to time it’s base stats are just too bad to use nowadays 

[vixenpixel]

Accessing gearwheel puts mouse cursor in a direction determined where you last aimed it. So if you turn left prior to accessing gearwheel, your cursor is aimed at the left in the gearwheel. This is a real nuisance. I hope fixed very soon.

I managed to accidentally summon Wolf of saturn six on steel path, first trying the saya node...

Edited October 2 by vixenpixel

[UlyssesTheDM]

On 2024-09-29 at 2:49 PM, sXeth said:

it’s been a weird trend with the big reworks to “unpopular” frames that they semi dismissively lose whatever their standout feature before was.

Grendel got his feast capped. Hydroid lost invulnerability/gathering/damage linking. Inaros lost his defence objective healing (and team healing). Grendel and Inaros at least seemed to generally come out actively better forit by upgrades to the rest of their stuff.

Pablo did confirm on Twitter/X (I think?) that they are bringing back the armor strip zone which is good. 🤗

On 2024-09-30 at 9:31 AM, DaShark said:

Use casting speed archon shards to decrease the time spent in the spawn animation, and you have about 5-6 seconds of spamming melee before you go back to base form and refill the soul well while you shield gate. 

If I need to use casting speed shards to make him functional, then he needs tweaked.

[UlyssesTheDM]

On 2024-09-30 at 12:27 PM, MerlintheAgeless said:

So, uh, actually that's a Bug. Both Shadow's (Prime and Base) currently have incorrect Base Armor. They only have ~185 (hard to get exact numbers) instead of the 475 they should. The numbers are correct in the Arsenal, but in-mission they're wrong. There are a couple Bug reports on it (including one by me). Once it's fixed the Shadow will be much Tankier. Unfortunately, DE have yet to acknowledge this Bug.

Thank goodness it is a bug honestly! Now we probably won't have to wait too long for it to be changed I hope. Sevagoth and his Shadow could really use that armor.

[Kyleprime101]

On 2024-09-27 at 8:18 PM, Muevelosbbh said:

Why? Your comment makes no sense with all due respect clearly you don't know about slam wukong. It doesn't matter if something else can hit damage points higher. It's a disruptive method it's been complaining about 100,000 times. It wasn't intended clearly, and it plagues the Asian servers. It makes complete sense. 

I am not on the forum as much so i reply late, you making it sound like slam wukong is the most broken thing in the game. what's so disruptive about it? because it can cc enemies with the augment? or it's huge aoe damage and kpm? 

Dante giving everyone over 70,000 overguard and overguard regen all while nuking maps full of enemies upto level cap isn't disruptive? or saryn nuking maps with sobek or ability nuking entire starter chart isn't disruptive? khora dealing 99% of the team's damage while also being invisible and having two companions and getting extra extra loot isn't disruptive?? hey speaking of disruptive, lets talk about limbo... he is the definition of disruptive so why is a monkey warframe slamming ground with melee considered disruptive when other warframe can do what he does better. 

it just doesn't make sense complaining about a play style just because it's lazy and over played. Being overplayed doesn't make it disruptive, affecting other players on the map is what makes a warframe disruptive.

[Muevelosbbh]

6 hours ago, Kyleprime101 said:

I am not on the forum as much so i reply late, you making it sound like slam wukong is the most broken thing in the game. what's so disruptive about it? because it can cc enemies with the augment? or it's huge aoe damage and kpm? 

Dante giving everyone over 70,000 overguard and overguard regen all while nuking maps full of enemies upto level cap isn't disruptive? or saryn nuking maps with sobek or ability nuking entire starter chart isn't disruptive? khora dealing 99% of the team's damage while also being invisible and having two companions and getting extra extra loot isn't disruptive?? hey speaking of disruptive, lets talk about limbo... he is the definition of disruptive so why is a monkey warframe slamming ground with melee considered disruptive when other warframe can do what he does better. 

it just doesn't make sense complaining about a play style just because it's lazy and over played. Being overplayed doesn't make it disruptive, affecting other players on the map is what makes a warframe disruptive.

I'm sorry but your points don't really work here my friend. There's a difference between something being too powerful like the frames you listed and this particular instance. DE, isn't making this weaker by any means. They could care less about how powerful this is, what's going on here is basically an exploit that de has realized because of the player base, not following through on the animation instead of canceling it to spam it even more than you already should be able to that mechanic shouldn't really exist they are fixing that that is all there is here. You can still spam this it may just take half a second longer, if we are complaining about that then there's much bigger issues going on. They didn't Nerf anything they just corrected it to its proper placement. Still just as powerful

[Kyleprime101]

14 hours ago, Muevelosbbh said:

I'm sorry but your points don't really work here my friend. There's a difference between something being too powerful like the frames you listed and this particular instance. DE, isn't making this weaker by any means. They could care less about how powerful this is, what's going on here is basically an exploit that de has realized because of the player base, not following through on the animation instead of canceling it to spam it even more than you already should be able to that mechanic shouldn't really exist they are fixing that that is all there is here. You can still spam this it may just take half a second longer, if we are complaining about that then there's much bigger issues going on. They didn't Nerf anything they just corrected it to its proper placement. Still just as powerful

There are multiple mechanicanics that shouldn't really exist, how magus aggress gives you forever 300% crit damage or how rivens affect you pseudo exalted weapons making it pay to win or incarnon buffs affecting pseudo exalted weapons.

we can talk about gauss with aegis being immortal upto level cap, I can list many on top of my head that is "basically an exploit"  but why was wukong singled out specifically?? 

[(PSN)Grand_Sheba]

Great job, bump all my previous post. Yall really nailed it only need a Caliban custom movement!

[DaShark]

On 2024-09-30 at 11:27 AM, MerlintheAgeless said:

So, uh, actually that's a Bug. Both Shadow's (Prime and Base) currently have incorrect Base Armor. They only have ~185 (hard to get exact numbers) instead of the 475 they should. The numbers are correct in the Arsenal, but in-mission they're wrong. There are a couple Bug reports on it (including one by me). Once it's fixed the Shadow will be much Tankier. Unfortunately, DE have yet to acknowledge this Bug.

You can use arcane battery and do some math to see the armor mid mission. I just tested this with Shadow Prime and all values add up correctly, even mid mission. How are you determining that this is happening?

[UlyssesTheDM]

DE! Please allow an augment or something to give Nova portals a duration in place of the charges so we can do crazy stuff like this! ❤

 

(Video from Pupsker)

I know this will probably be patched, but I want to ba able to do this still, and be able to think with portals this way!

 

Give a 20-30s base duration maybe for the augment?

Edited October 5 by UlyssesTheDM

[MerlintheAgeless]

4 hours ago, DaShark said:

You can use arcane battery and do some math to see the armor mid mission. I just tested this with Shadow Prime and all values add up correctly, even mid mission. How are you determining that this is happening?

Interesting, I guess Arcane Battery uses live Arsenal values to calculate, since those are correct, but in-mission it doesn't work. My tests were taking damage to Shields, then Health. Since Shields have known DR of 50% you can calculate the Armor DR from there. The first indication something is wrong though, is that you take more damage to Health than Shield, despite 475 Armor supposedly giving 61% DR. Turns out you only have about 185 Base Armor in-mission, even Armor Mods scale off of that.

[Watrin]

Please consider reworking Caliban's passive, as it is very weak and we are almost forced to keep using the shield gate mechanic.

I had this idea much simpler and easier to accept.

Caliban's liability will work in exactly the same way as it does now, but it will scale with force, duration and range mods for example:

Maximum base adaptation of 50% that can scale up to 95% with force mods for example:

200% strength = 90% adaptation
250% strength = 92,5% adaptation
300% strength = 95% adaptation (maximum damage reduction ceiling)

Duration mods will modify the duration of the resistance until it begins to gradually reduce for example:
Base duration before reducing adaptation is 5s.

With 200% duration = 10s before reducing adaptation

And range mods will modify the range of the pro-time adaptation aura being the base range of 15m.

With 200% range the aura will have a range of 30m.

I believe that this idea is much simpler, easier to implement and accepted by the community.

 

Edited October 8 by Watrin

[(PSN)Grand_Sheba]

28 minutes ago, Watrin said:

Please consider reworking Caliban's passive, as it is very weak and we are almost forced to keep using the shield gate mechanic.

I had this idea much simpler and easier to accept.

Caliban's liability will work in exactly the same way as it does now, but it will scale with force, duration and range mods for example:

Maximum base adaptation of 50% that can scale up to 95% with force mods for example:

200% strength = 90% adaptation
250% strength = 92,5% adaptation
300% strength = 95% adaptation (maximum damage reduction ceiling)

Duration mods will modify the duration of the resistance until it begins to gradually reduce for example:
Base duration before reducing adaptation is 5s.

With 200% duration = 10s before reducing adaptation

And range mods will modify the range of the pro-time adaptation aura being the base range of 15m.

With 200% range the aura will have a range of 30m.

I believe that this idea is much simpler, easier to implement and accepted by the community.

 

I agree with you after playing woth him more. His passive needs work but from being in discussions woth Pablo on Twitter(or...X). I dont see him changing it with out there being a cost and i can agree with that. A passive that gives 90% damage reduction that comes at no real cost is very OP. 

Current Problems:

1. Redundancy with Adaptation: Players often rely on the Adaptation mod instead of Caliban’s passive, as Adaptation offers broader and more reliable benefits.

 

2. Limited Effectiveness Against DoTs: Caliban’s Adaptive Armor currently offers no protection against Damage-over-Time effects (Slash, Toxin, Heat), which are especially dangerous in higher-level content.

 

3. No Stacking Synergy: There is a lack of synergy between Adaptive Armor and Adaptation, creating redundancy in defense mechanics.

 

 

So i definitely see where you're coming from but id offer this instead, friend.

Solution:

Caliban will gain a scaling Adaptive Armor mechanic that enhances his resilience based on his health and proximity to his Sentient summons from Lethal Progeny.

 

 

1. Adaptive Armor Scaling:

Caliban's Adaptive Armor will start at its base level and can be enhanced through a Sentient link established with his summoned allies. This means that while Caliban is within range of his Sentients, his Adaptive Armor can exceed the usual limits, potentially reaching up to 90%.

 

 

2. Health Gates for Adaptive Armor: 

As Caliban’s health drops, his Adaptive Armor capacity increases based on health gates:

 

First Gate (Health drops by 25%): Adaptive Armor capacity increases by 10% (total 60%).

 

Second Gate (Health drops by 45%): Adaptive Armor capacity increases by another 10% (total 70%).

 

Third Gate (Health drops by 65%): Adaptive Armor capacity increases by another 10% (total 80%).

 

Fourth Gate (Health drops by 80%): Adaptive Armor capacity maxes out at 90%.

 

This scaling will decay by 2% per second when not taking damage, and if Caliban's Sentient allies expire or move out of range, the decay will increase to 5% per second.

 

3. Adaptive Transfer Mechanic:

The Sentient link allows Caliban to inherit any damage type adaptations(modifiers) his Sentients have developed with as an additional 5% Adaptive Armor. This is capped at his current Adaptive Armor capacity.

 

Sentient link will also provide linked allies with an additional 5% Adaptive Armor.

 

 If already capped, those linked will have their stacks refresh with an additional 5% stack. This transfer will occur only once per Caliban's health gate.

 

If Caliban or allies have 0% impact resistance from adaptive armor then Adaptive transfers will give him 5%. 

If they have 10% then he will gain 5%, resulting in 15%.

 

  

 

Interaction with Adaptation mod & Complementary Mechanics:

While Adaptation(mod) can still be used alongside Adaptive Armor, it is no longer a necessity for Caliban. Adaptation will provide protection against DoT effects (Slash, Toxin, Heat), whereas Adaptive Armor will protect against direct damage. This creates a balanced synergy where Adaptive Armor and Adaptation serve complementary roles, enhancing Caliban's survivability while maintaining distinct functionalities.

 

 

 

Summary of Key Changes:

1. Adaptive Transfer: Caliban can adapt to damage types his Sentients have absorbed, up to his Adaptive Armor capacity. Allies gain an additional 5% Adaptive Armor through the link.

 

 

2. Health Gates: Caliban's Adaptive Armor strengthens as his health decreases, maxing out at 90% when his health reaches 20%.

 

 

3. DoT Mitigation: Adaptation remains vital for resisting DoT effects, ensuring players can handle diverse combat scenarios effectively.

 

Final Thoughts:

This adjustment would make Caliban’s Adaptive Armor more thematic and engaging, reinforcing his role as a tanky, adaptive Sentient Warframe who thrives under pressure. The scaling resistances and synergy with Lethal Progeny provide depth while ensuring that gameplay remains dynamic and fun. This design allows Caliban to embody the Sentient power fantasy while avoiding overshadowing the Adaptation mod, offering players a specialized niche for maximizing their combat effectiveness.

 

 

Mechanic Inspirations: The passive synergies of Xaku, Nova, Nidus, Kullervo, Grendel and Limbo.

[Watrin]

6 hours ago, (PSN)Grand_Sheba said:

Concordo com você depois de jogar mais com ele. A passiva dele precisa de trabalho, mas por estar em discussões com Pablo no Twitter (ou...X). Não o vejo mudando isso sem que haja um custo e posso concordar com isso. Uma passiva que dá 90% de redução de dano que não tem custo real é muito OP. 

Problemas atuais:

1. Redundância com Adaptação: Os jogadores geralmente confiam no mod Adaptação em vez da passiva de Caliban, pois Adaptação oferece benefícios mais amplos e confiáveis.

 

2. Eficácia limitada contra DoTs: a Armadura Adaptativa de Caliban atualmente não oferece proteção contra efeitos de Dano ao longo do tempo (Corte, Toxina, Calor), que são especialmente perigosos em conteúdo de nível mais alto.

 

3. Sem sinergia de acumulação: há uma falta de sinergia entre Armadura Adaptativa e Adaptação, criando redundância na mecânica de defesa.

 

 

Então, eu definitivamente entendo o que você quer dizer, mas eu ofereço isso, amigo.

Solução:

Caliban ganhará uma mecânica de Armadura Adaptativa escalonável que aumenta sua resiliência com base em sua saúde e proximidade com suas invocações Sentient da Progênie Letal.

 

 

1. Escala de armadura adaptável:

A Adaptive Armor de Caliban começará em seu nível base e pode ser aprimorada por meio de um link Sentient estabelecido com seus aliados invocados. Isso significa que enquanto Caliban estiver dentro do alcance de seus Sentients, sua Adaptive Armor pode exceder os limites usuais, potencialmente chegando a 90%.

 

 

2. Portões de saúde para armadura adaptável: 

À medida que a saúde de Caliban diminui, sua capacidade de Armadura Adaptativa aumenta com base nos portais de saúde:

 

Primeiro Portão (a saúde cai em 25%): a capacidade da Armadura Adaptativa aumenta em 10% (total de 60%).

 

Segundo Portão (a saúde cai em 45%): a capacidade da Armadura Adaptativa aumenta em mais 10% (total de 70%).

 

Terceiro Portão (a saúde cai em 65%): a capacidade da Armadura Adaptativa aumenta em mais 10% (total de 80%).

 

Quarto Portão (a saúde cai em 80%): a capacidade da Armadura Adaptativa atinge o máximo de 90%.

 

Essa escala diminuirá em 2% por segundo quando não estiver sofrendo dano e, se os aliados Sentient de Caliban expirarem ou saírem do alcance, a redução aumentará para 5% por segundo.

 

3. Mecânica de transferência adaptativa:

O link Sentient permite que Caliban herde quaisquer adaptações de tipo de dano (modificadores) que seus Sentients desenvolveram com uma Armadura Adaptativa adicional de 5%. Isso é limitado à sua capacidade atual de Armadura Adaptativa.

 

O vínculo senciente também fornecerá aos aliados vinculados 5% de Armadura Adaptativa adicional.

 

 Se já estiverem limitados, aqueles vinculados terão suas pilhas renovadas com uma pilha adicional de 5%. Essa transferência ocorrerá apenas uma vez por portal de saúde de Caliban.

 

Se Caliban ou aliados tiverem 0% de resistência ao impacto da armadura adaptável, as transferências adaptativas darão a ele 5%. 

Se eles tiverem 10%, ele ganhará 5%, resultando em 15%.

 

  

 

Interação com o mod Adaptation e Mecânica Complementar:

Embora Adaptation(mod) ainda possa ser usado junto com Adaptive Armor, ele não é mais uma necessidade para Caliban. Adaptation fornecerá proteção contra efeitos DoT (Slash, Toxin, Heat), enquanto Adaptive Armor protegerá contra dano direto. Isso cria uma sinergia equilibrada onde Adaptive Armor e Adaptation desempenham papéis complementares, aumentando a capacidade de sobrevivência de Caliban enquanto mantém funcionalidades distintas.

 

 

 

Resumo das principais mudanças:

1. Transferência Adaptativa: Caliban pode se adaptar aos tipos de dano que seus Sentients absorveram, até sua capacidade de Armadura Adaptativa. Aliados ganham 5% de Armadura Adaptativa adicional por meio do link.

 

 

2. Portões de Saúde: A Armadura Adaptativa de Caliban se fortalece conforme sua saúde diminui, chegando ao máximo de 90% quando sua saúde atinge 20%.

 

 

3. Mitigação de DoT: A adaptação continua sendo essencial para resistir aos efeitos de DoT, garantindo que os jogadores possam lidar com diversos cenários de combate de forma eficaz.

 

Considerações finais:

Este ajuste tornaria a Adaptive Armor de Caliban mais temática e envolvente, reforçando seu papel como um Warframe Sentient adaptável e resistente que prospera sob pressão. As resistências de escala e a sinergia com Lethal Progeny fornecem profundidade, ao mesmo tempo em que garantem que a jogabilidade permaneça dinâmica e divertida. Este design permite que Caliban incorpore a fantasia de poder Sentient, evitando ofuscar o mod Adaptation, oferecendo aos jogadores um nicho especializado para maximizar sua eficácia em combate.

 

 

Inspirações mecânicas: As sinergias passivas de Xaku, Nova, Nidus, Kullervo, Grendel e Limbo.

If you are too strong for a passive then throw it as an augment mod.

Your suggestion is too long and complicated for a passive that works so simply.