Just a thought on Koumei from what was shown.

[MrDugan]

Her second puts up a "challenge" for you to complete to receive a Duviri Decree.  RNG frame already sounds like a nightmare for someone like me, where my RNG in all games is perpetually horrible.  But I'm sure it'll be manageable for the frame.

My immediate reaction to having "challenges" dropped in my lap by an ability is...  abject horror.  My absolute least favorite activity in this game is running any of the "do this to unlock a thing" challenges.  Opening rivens is such a chore that I wait until I have some patience saved up and run several at once.  I hate it.  Unlocking incarnons completely burns me out for the day.  It's insanely tedious.  I have never once enjoyed any aspect of opening a riven, or unlocking incarnon evolutions.  

It's not just about the fact that I and others will not find this enjoyable, and will actually probably think of it as tedious.  I remember the old challenges that used to pop up in missions for bonus affinity.  I've tried unlocking incarnon evos in pub squads.  Completing challenges in squads is a huge pain.  Depending on how aggressive your squad is, these challenges might not even be completable unless you're solo.  

Most of the abilities, apart from the RNG aspect, look great.  This ability looks like a helminth slot, which sucks, because decrees are very strong.

(also, the companion rework looks great, and I think the smeeta charm change looks fine.)

[Raarsi]

Pretty sure we won't need to kill 30 enemies in two seconds while wall latched and not getting hit and singing the Macarena backwards just for a buff on Koumei.  I'd expect these challenges to be something more along the lines of "put in maybe a second of actual effort and then get a buff".

[GPrime96]

Status Spread/Healing/RNG Invincibility is, to me, just asking for her to be too generic of a Warframe considering we got Secondary Encumber/Melee Influence/invincibility built into other frames/plenty of healing sources (even though a few work in a game where you can take too much damage on health). The Duviri Decree ability and other RNG buffs are the only ones that’s unique for Koumei. 

[MrDugan]

11 hours ago, Raarsi said:

Pretty sure we won't need to kill 30 enemies in two seconds while wall latched and not getting hit and singing the Macarena backwards just for a buff on Koumei.  I'd expect these challenges to be something more along the lines of "put in maybe a second of actual effort and then get a buff".

The challenge showed on stream was 22 headshots, but she loses energy until she completes it.  Not only are headshots very problematic on some enemies or entire factions, but the hitboxes for them are bad, with parts of the actual head not counting.  Take an Ivara to the void with a silenced, scoped weapon.  You'll randomly just not have it count as a headshot, even with MS removed.  Backs of the head, when visible and less often the tops of the head often do not count.  Not to mention that some weapons literally will not headshot because DE removed the ability for them to.  That's if there's anything alive for you to headshot.  Get an aggressive squad with nuke frames and then have that challenge pop up and your second ability just wiped your energy reserves with no other effect.

It's also a random decree.  According to the wiki, the heat from the melee decree that imbues your weapon with heat, will combine.  If you're running a viral electric influence weapon against murmur, that electric is now radiation, which means it won't activate influence.  There's tons of weird interactions like that which would screw a player over in terms of build.  The game has enough RNG in it.  Having it be on powers sounds awful.

[Waeleto]

Her 2 sounds like a subsume slot to me 

[Psymantiss]

The RNG on the other abilities could just be a nice occasional bonus but that ability sounds horrible to me. I can't see using the frame much if it can't be switched out. Press it by mistake and get stuck with an energy drain until you complete the equivalent of a Nightwave challenge.

People are saying it's good for endless missions though so it might be just what some Tennos want.

[sunderthefirmament]

8 hours ago, GPrime96 said:

Status Spread/Healing/RNG Invincibility is, to me, just asking for her to be too generic of a Warframe 

That's kind of where we're headed with a roster as bloated as this.  I like and enjoy playing each of our modern frames, but it's been a long time since we've had anything as gameplay defining as an older frame like Nova or Ivara. Most (all?) recent frames can be distilled down to "DPS generalist with some support."

 

Like... Jade is a blast to play, but she doesn't really have a niche.  I love Kullervo's gameplay more than basically any other frame, but he's just another melee generalist with decent mobility.  Voruna is a blast to play, but she's just another hyper mobile nuker.  I'm doing the design team a disservice here, but I think the point still stands.

 

Maybe Koumei's RNG aspects will help set her apart.

[Anemone.Antimony]

5 hours ago, MrDugan said:

The challenge showed on stream was 22 headshots, but she loses energy until she completes it.  Not only are headshots very problematic on some enemies or entire factions, but the hitboxes for them are bad, with parts of the actual head not counting.  Take an Ivara to the void with a silenced, scoped weapon.  You'll randomly just not have it count as a headshot, even with MS removed.  Backs of the head, when visible and less often the tops of the head often do not count.  Not to mention that some weapons literally will not headshot because DE removed the ability for them to.  That's if there's anything alive for you to headshot.  Get an aggressive squad with nuke frames and then have that challenge pop up and your second ability just wiped your energy reserves with no other effect.

you're basing all of these complaints on one single challenge out of however many she ends up having, and an early enough iteration to still have placeholder text, hence most likely subject to change

5 hours ago, MrDugan said:

It's also a random decree.  According to the wiki, the heat from the melee decree that imbues your weapon with heat, will combine.  If you're running a viral electric influence weapon against murmur, that electric is now radiation, which means it won't activate influence.  There's tons of weird interactions like that which would screw a player over in terms of build.  The game has enough RNG in it.  Having it be on powers sounds awful.

it's fine to have frames that ask for synergy and consideration in what gear you use with them instead of just throwing on the current s-tier meta on every single loadout

[vFlitz]

IMO her 2 is the one ability that has potential to make her worth playing. You'll probably never use it in a non-endless mission because why would you even bother, but in a long run stacking a lot of decrees could be very powerful. It's also the only ability where the dice RNG doesn't seem kinda pointless because getting the decrees is a process and not something you cast because you need it in the moment.

So it's all a matter of how annoying the challenges can be and how debilitating their debuffs are.

[CoyotexStarrk]

On 2024-09-27 at 9:42 PM, MrDugan said:

Her second puts up a "challenge" for you to complete to receive a Duviri Decree.  RNG frame already sounds like a nightmare for someone like me, where my RNG in all games is perpetually horrible.  But I'm sure it'll be manageable for the frame.

My immediate reaction to having "challenges" dropped in my lap by an ability is...  abject horror.  My absolute least favorite activity in this game is running any of the "do this to unlock a thing" challenges.  Opening rivens is such a chore that I wait until I have some patience saved up and run several at once.  I hate it.  Unlocking incarnons completely burns me out for the day.  It's insanely tedious.  I have never once enjoyed any aspect of opening a riven, or unlocking incarnon evolutions.  

It's not just about the fact that I and others will not find this enjoyable, and will actually probably think of it as tedious.  I remember the old challenges that used to pop up in missions for bonus affinity.  I've tried unlocking incarnon evos in pub squads.  Completing challenges in squads is a huge pain.  Depending on how aggressive your squad is, these challenges might not even be completable unless you're solo.  

Most of the abilities, apart from the RNG aspect, look great.  This ability looks like a helminth slot, which sucks, because decrees are very strong.

(also, the companion rework looks great, and I think the smeeta charm change looks fine.)

It sounds like the frame may just not be for you then. Which is fine. That's not a reason to get rid of such a unique mechanic like her Dice or the Challenges. We don't even know what the baseline stats of the abilities are yet. It's way too soon to tell if the challenges are too much or not. 

 

Not every frame needs to be a 4 button masher. It's okay to have something different like Dante, Equinox, or Koumei that takes the usual formula and turns it on its head. Not every frame needs to be liked by everyone. 

Edited 19 hours ago by CoyotexStarrk

[RichardKam]

Hmmm...

Don't play her then?

[0_The_F00l]

I too am slightly concerned for that aspect of gameplay ,

It's not that I think the mechanism itself is bad - I think it's fine and a decent active gameplay element.

My issue is if it gives me a challenge like , get 5 headshots / proc x status effects , and I am paired with a player that already kills the entire map before I can aim , how exactly am I supposed to complete it?

So it will be a context based issue. If it's not dependent on enemies , then maybe it will be less jarring.

[Miser_able]

I expect the challenges to be simple things like "5 headshots" or "travel 30 meters" not as rough as riven challenges and their aim glide headshots or anything

[AzureTerra]

Play the frame to 30, experience it personally and choose to keep or feed her to the mouth based on how its actually plays rather than theoretically plays

[MrDugan]

9 hours ago, AzureTerra said:

Play the frame to 30, experience it personally and choose to keep or feed her to the mouth based on how its actually plays rather than theoretically plays

Except I'm literally basing this on gameplay.  They showed the gameplay.