Here are some ideas for general and individual sniper buffs & reworks ahead of Cyte-09 and his exalted sniper so they are a more relevant weapon class

[Redrigoth]

First some general changes to apply to all snipers:

• Make all snipers have minimum combo = 2
• Head-shots give 5 combo points, body shots give 1 combo point
• Multishot does not count for extra combo gain/loss
• Increase sniper combo duration to 6 seconds. They require repositioning and lining up shots on moving targets and not missing so you need some time. Or just get rid of it altogether and just make people lose 10 combo points per missed shot so it can scale into big damage as long as you keep up the streak. You'll be shooting slower but each shot will be big.
• Give all snipers 2x, 4x, 8x zoom levels for consistency and adjust the zoom bonuses for each one so it makes sense
• Stat bumps for all of them so they hit those few targets hard.
• Galvanized crosshair buff duration increase when equipped on sniper.
• Reload speed and Magazine size mods become exilus. They are 10x more QoL mods than they are DPS mods and their contribution to kills per minute is near zero.
• Update Dead Eye aura mod. +80% damage, +20% head-shot damage, -20% recoil
• Change Sharp Shooter mod into exilus. It will be useful for sustaining your sniper camp. Like wisp teleporting between reservoirs around the area. Or nova using wormholes. Or some other frame using slows or whatever to aid the sniping.
• Change Harkonak Scope mod to reduce combo loss per missed shot from 10 to 7 if we get rid of the combo duration.

 

Now let's look at individual sniper identity:

Komurex:

• Is about versatility and adaptability.
• Hip-fire has improved accuracy so it functions like a regular rifle at short ranges before spread becomes too troublesome. Its ammo conversion passive will complement this.
• Hip-fire has 10 fire rate and 1 punch-through
• Zoom1 can have -50% recoil and 2m punch-through with 5 fire rate. All zooms have pin-point accuracy.
• Zoom2 has +100% damage, +3m explosion radius that force procs 1 viral and 1 magnetic, 3 fire rate.
• Zoom3 can have partial seeking towards enemy heads so as long as you fire close to it, it reliably hits the head. It also gets +150% damage and 1 fire rate.

Lanka:

• Charge shot mechanics.
• Charge level below 50% is a quick weaker shot.
• Charge between 50% and 99% does good strong damage.
• 100% charged shot does huge damage with a guaranteed electric proc.
• We have plenty sources for critical chance so change zoom buff into critical damage instead.
• Update Voltage Sequence mod. +75% magnetic damage and any enemy that dies from Lanka or its status effects has a 25% chance to drop a lightning trap that lasts 8 seconds and procs weak electric (for cc) on enemies within 4m each second.
• Create Tenet Lanka. It gets better stats(damage, crit, status). It uses a battery with 8 magazine instead of ammo and 0.5s recharge delay and it recharges 8 per second. It has an alt-fire which you have to hold for 3 seconds and then release to fire. This will consume the entire battery and cause a +2 second recharge delay. It will fire a beam that does 3x the damage of a fully charged attack. The beam is thick and has a radius of 3m so you can blow up half a hallway. Can still headshot, functions like nataruk projectile, it's just a fat regular projectile not an aoe.

Perigale:

• High risk, high reward in terms of ammo economy and combo building.
• Each shot in the burst counts for combo gain/loss so you can either gain or lose lots of combo per shot.
• Increase passive buff's duration from 4 seconds to 6 seconds
• Additional effect on passive trigger: +20 combo points.
• Each shot in the burst triggers 1 stack of a random element similar to the theme of vouna's 2. Unaffected by multishot.

Rubico:

• Agile well balanced all rounder. Ambush Optics mod lets you reduce zoom so you can leverage zoom buffs at shorter distances. Good fire rate, good magazine and ammo, good stats.
• Reduce recoil and reload time
• Zoom bonus gives both crit chance and crit damage
• Rubico gets minimum combo = 1 instead of 2
• Guaranteed impact proc on shots

Snipetron:

• Better at longer ranges
• Has a 4th and 5th zoom level at x11 and x14 (it is hit-scan so shots will land)
• Has no damage fall-off at any distance
• Gains more head-shot bonus damage at higher zoom levels
• Increase max ammo and ammo restore per pickup

Sporothrix:

• AOE effects and spreading influence. High crit damage but requires flat crit chance buffs.
• viral slash is good against grineer but since the armor rework, they have higher hp with kind of nerfs this weapon. It is also reasonable to use this weapon for body shots with its augment mod. Give it an extra damage boost so those slash procs hit harder to compensate for body shots and for grineer's increase health pool.
• When an enemy dies to Sporothrix or its procs, tendrils come out of the corpse and grab all enemies within 6m and apply a viral proc on them and stuns them for 4 seconds. Keep killing to spread tendrils all over and maintain the CC and kill streak.
• Change weighting to 10% impact, 10% puncture, 80% slash

Vectis:

• Single shot big precision damage.
• Reduce Vectis Prime magazine size to 1 so it can properly leverage Primed Chamber like normal vectis
• Headshot kills reveal weak points on enemies within 10m for 10 seconds. Hitting a weak-point counts as a head-shot. Weak points can be seen through geometry similar to how Zenith alt-fire does it.
• Increase base punch-through to 4 on normal vectis and 5 on prime vectis
• Guaranteed puncture effect on each shot.

Vulkar:

• Tradeoffs. Weak on body, but strong on head. Sacrifice crits for satus or status for crits.
• Meticulous Aim mod become the weapon's passive
• Hip-fire has pin-point accuracy
• Change Lasting Purity mod: +75% dead aim. Gain final critical chance equal to (100 - weapon status chance gained after modifiers) and gain final status chance equal to (100 - weapon critical chance gained after modifiers).
• Landing a head-shot refunds 1 ammo.

Edited October 1 by Redrigoth

[(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE]

Yeah, this is wayyy too much.

Alot of these don't need buffs, the ones that do, you buff in the wrong way.

For example, the Rubico you buff the CC and CD when this thing is already one of, if not the most used snipers. The forced Impact proc also makes this an internal bleeding weapon, so the vulkar is invalidated.

Snipetron just increasing zoom via more zoom levels doesn't help when you actively want -zoom

Vulkar Wraith, my favorite sniper, does not need to have it's bodyshot damage nerfed by having the passive made innate. lasting purity is one of the strongest augments in the game because it simply multiplies your damage while scoped by 60%.

What I do agree on this list is increased combo duration, Ammo economy and reload speed changes, and add sniper exilus mods for duration, reload speed, etc.
 

Edited October 1 by (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE

[Redrigoth]

3 hours ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

Yeah, this is wayyy too much.

Alot of these don't need buffs, the ones that do, you buff in the wrong way.

For example, the Rubico you buff the CC and CD when this thing is already one of, if not the most used snipers. The forced Impact proc also makes this an internal bleeding weapon, so the vulkar is invalidated.

Snipetron just increasing zoom via more zoom levels doesn't help when you actively want -zoom

Vulkar Wraith, my favorite sniper, does not need to have it's bodyshot damage nerfed by having the passive made innate. lasting purity is one of the strongest augments in the game because it simply multiplies your damage while scoped by 60%.

What I do agree on this list is increased combo duration, Ammo economy and reload speed changes, and add sniper exilus mods for duration, reload speed, etc.
 

Of course it's "way too much". It is a rework designed to make snipers as useful as other weapon types. It's also designed to give each sniper its own unique playstyle.

If you don't want so much zoom then you don't play the "more zoom" sniper. Snipetron would be there for people who want more zoom control.

I know lasting purity is a separate multiplier. The Vulkar in this case becomes the restricted huge damage sniper. It also has the ability to tune crit and status so you can pick the type of damage you want to do. Also the buffs I suggested would result in you doing similar body damage as you do now, but much more headshot damage.

If you just want raw damage with multipliers on any body part you use Vectis.

Rubico getting to use internal bleeding is an option so its agile play style can be used on armored enemies if you want to go with slash procs. It does not invalidate the new Vulkar.

You're looking at this post through the lens of what you are playing with now (ex: impact rubico invalidating current vulkar rather than new vulkar). Fact of the matter is, snipers aren't good enough for the current state of the game. Only rubico prime has high usage and that is because of eidolon hunting and any other niche case where you want a sniper and rubico prime happens to have the best stats.

Look https://www.warframe.com/2023stats Outside of rubico prime, any usage they get is just occasional flings.

 

And I disagree about them being buffed in the wrong way. DE can figure out the specific numbers but the mechanics are good.

Lanka for example has a focus on charged damage with status procs and crowd control and since it is not hit-scan, it leverages electric stuns to set enemies up. It also has some aoe burst option for more viability in general use whether against small groups or priority targets.

Komurex becomes usable in a variety of situations. Short ranges spraying, mid-range spraying, priming, and single target bursting,

Snipetron is hitscan with no fall off to accommodate its ranged focus becomes good for long range play, such as breaking eidolon from a safe distance, or just mid ranged sniping with no damage loss. The improved ammo economy also helps a comfortable style where you miss some shots on tiny targets and the reduced fall off helps compensate the combo loss for that usage.

Rubico and Vectis are both high damage and high crit, but they become unique from each other. Rubico allows for big agile damage at any range, while vectis allows for less agile but larger 1-shot kills.

Vulkar allows you to do bigger damage than Vectis on head but less on body. It also allows you to leverage guaranteed status of any type or extra crit to meet the needs if your specific use case.

Perigale lets you ramp up big damage quickly and gives you some random procs so you get some versatility like slowing a specific target or having a little bit of CC with elec/heat/rad or just strengthening your shots with viral/mag/corrosive/gunCO

The buffs are all complimentary to any unique traits the guns have and each gun brings something unique to the table so it has its place rather than the current "use Rubico prime, the rest are trash". Assuming they get good numbers on their status increases that complement the respective gun and balances them all against each other. Plus these are general concepts not the exact thing that would be implemented, Some guns may get more, some may get less, some ideas could be implemented in a different manner.

Edited October 2 by Redrigoth

[(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE]

14 minutes ago, Redrigoth said:

Of course it's "way too much". It is a rework designed to make snipers as useful as other weapon types. It's also designed to give each sniper its own unique playstyle.

If you don't want so much zoom then you don't play the "more zoom" sniper. Snipetron would be there for people who want more zoom control.

I know lasting purity is a separate multiplier. The Vulkar in this case becomes the restricted huge damage sniper. It also has the ability to tune crit and status so you can pick the type of damage you want to do. Also the buffs I suggested would result in you doing similar body damage as you do now, but much more headshot damage.

If you just want raw damage with multipliers on any body part you use Vectis.

Rubico getting to use internal bleeding is an option so its agile play style can be used on armored enemies if you want to go with slash procs. It does not invalidate the new Vulkar.

You're looking at this post through the lens of what you are playing with now (ex: impact rubico invalidating current vulkar rather than new vulkar). Fact of the matter is, snipers aren't good enough for the current state of the game. Only rubico prime has high usage and that is because of eidolon hunting and any other niche case where you want a sniper and rubico prime happens to have the best stats.

Look https://www.warframe.com/2023stats Outside of rubico prime, any usage they get is just occasional flings

When reworking things, you don't destroy what works, and start from the ground up. You take what works and add to it.

You also need to focus on ease of change. If Snipers get buffed, it shouldn't invalidate anyone's build, they should be able to use it and it be immediately better.

Many of these weapons can kill easily at SP level, they simply need a dps increase via fire rate and reload speed increases. 
Those that can't, at least without a riven, need to simply have number tweaks. 

Komorex: is good, broken by Semi Shot Cannonade

Lanka: needs a buff. 

Perigale: Pretty good, ammo maximum is punishing. If you don't proc the passive it burns all ammo too quickly

Rubico: Eidolon Meta, could use reload speed increases. 

Snipetron: Needs a buff

Sporothix: Meta after new augment

Vectis: needs a buff, relies too much on Prime Chamber

Vulkar: Needs a slight buff

Ideas:

Komorex: needs it's passive changed to completely disable punch through on alt fire. You could also change the viral passive to a void passive, so the extra multishot would hit multiple times per enemy.

Perigale: Increase Ammo Maximum, Increase magazine size. Reload speed is nerfed. Reloading with the passive procced increases reload speed by 200%. You are punished via reload speed now, not running out of ammo.

Rubico: Reload speed buff

Sporothix: no changes, augment is great. 

Vulkar: needs a status buff.

The ones I didn't mentioned need changes to their base damage. Vectis and Lanka could be treated as a bow and get like 50% base critical chance. 

The combo system could be changed via mod changes, new mods, and general system changes. 

[Redrigoth]

17 minutes ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

When reworking things, you don't destroy what works, and start from the ground up. You take what works and add to it.

You also need to focus on ease of change. If Snipers get buffed, it shouldn't invalidate anyone's build, they should be able to use it and it be immediately better.

Many of these weapons can kill easily at SP level, they simply need a dps increase via fire rate and reload speed increases. 
Those that can't, at least without a riven, need to simply have number tweaks. 

Komorex: is good, broken by Semi Shot Cannonade

Lanka: needs a buff. 

Perigale: Pretty good, ammo maximum is punishing. If you don't proc the passive it burns all ammo too quickly

Rubico: Eidolon Meta, could use reload speed increases. 

Snipetron: Needs a buff

Sporothix: Meta after new augment

Vectis: needs a buff, relies too much on Prime Chamber

Vulkar: Needs a slight buff

Ideas:

Komorex: needs it's passive changed to completely disable punch through on alt fire. You could also change the viral passive to a void passive, so the extra multishot would hit multiple times per enemy.

Perigale: Increase Ammo Maximum, Increase magazine size. Reload speed is nerfed. Reloading with the passive procced increases reload speed by 200%. You are punished via reload speed now, not running out of ammo.

Rubico: Reload speed buff

Sporothix: no changes, augment is great. 

Vulkar: needs a status buff.

The ones I didn't mentioned need changes to their base damage. Vectis and Lanka could be treated as a bow and get like 50% base critical chance. 

The combo system could be changed via mod changes, new mods, and general system changes. 

None of my changes would break a build in any significant manner. You'll get a free mod slot out of it if anything. They all add on top. More zoom options, more damage, more functionality, more options.

These weapons need big changes like the ones I mentioned. Simply increasing their numbers won't change the fact that they are slow single target weapons that all do the same exact things but with better/worse numbers. They might as well not touch them if they will just boost some numbers. Why bother? Just use Rubico Prime. Same thing and already has numbers.

They are not serous weapons currently. There is no reason to use them instead of other better weapons. Rifles can do damage just as big if not bigger than these snipers and can do it to groups of enemies. Some rifles even get used to kill eidolons. Snipers are just a gimmick right now for role playing sniper play. They need more substance and some versatility.

Edited October 2 by Redrigoth

[(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE]

15 minutes ago, Redrigoth said:

None of my changes would break a build in any significant manner. You'll get a free mod slot out of it if anything. They all add on top. More zoom options, more damage, more functionality, more options.

These weapons need big changes like the ones I mentioned. Simply increasing their numbers won't change the fact that they are slow single target weapons that all do the same exact things but with better/worse numbers. They might as well not touch them if they will just boost some numbers. Why bother? Just use Rubico Prime. Same thing and already has numbers.

They are not serous weapons currently. There is no reason to use them instead of other better weapons. Rifles can do damage just as big if not bigger than these snipers and can do it to groups of enemies. Some rifles even get used to kill eidolons. Snipers are just a gimmick right now for role playing sniper play. They need more substance and some versatility.

A weapon being single target isn't a bad thing, the rate that it deals with single targets is the issue. Hence fire rate, and the problem area, reload speed.

We can just disagree on how effective these weapons are, or disagree that they need to be as good as meta weapons.

Your Komorex change add enough mechanics where it could change build designs. The rubico impact change will change weapons from wanting to run corr or rad, to running internal bleeding. The innate Meticulous Aim for Vulkar would destroy my build completely as I don't wanna be forced to get headshots, just rewarded if I do.

[Redrigoth]

18 minutes ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

A weapon being single target isn't a bad thing, the rate that it deals with single targets is the issue. Hence fire rate, and the problem area, reload speed.

We can just disagree on how effective these weapons are, or disagree that they need to be as good as meta weapons.

Your Komorex change add enough mechanics where it could change build designs. The rubico impact change will change weapons from wanting to run corr or rad, to running internal bleeding. The innate Meticulous Aim for Vulkar would destroy my build completely as I don't wanna be forced to get headshots, just rewarded if I do.

People wanting to use a better build for Komurex isn't my change breaking their build. Their build would still do the same damage(increased by stats bumps) if they want to keep it. The fact they might find they can improve the build to something even better isn't a breaking change.

You vulkar build would not become worse either. Yes body shots will get damage reduced, but the the stat bumps, the Dead Aim buff, and the flat crit increase will bring it back up so your new body shots will still be doing the same damage as your current body shots. Headshots will be doing much more though. If you're satisfied with the damage it is doing now then you'll keep getting that damage even if you don't bother to leverage the improved headshots.

Also, the argument of "we shouldn't give these weapons substantial improvements because a handful of people might have to move a couple mods around" is nonsense. Caliban and Nova just got reworked and they are much better in all metrics. Should they not have been improved because someone might have to swap out a mod? Or because someone had some junk meme build on caliban's 1 that might have to change? No. Changes should be done carefully so as not to ruin people's investment in something valid, but if something is in a bad place and the improvement does not take away from what it can currently do and may require minor adjustments then there is no reason that improvement shouldn't be done. These snipers have a 0.2% use rate. Rubico has 2% but if not for eidolons it would be down there at 0.5% with vectis. And those are 2023 stats. 2024 probably worse with all the new incarnons. They need the changes.

Edited October 2 by Redrigoth

[(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE]

17 minutes ago, Redrigoth said:

People wanting to use a better build for Komurex isn't my change breaking their build. Their build would still do the same damage(increased by stats bumps) if they want to keep it. The fact they might find they can improve the build to something even better isn't a breaking change.

You vulkar build would not become worse either. Yes body shots will get damage reduced, but the the stat bumps, the Dead Aim buff, and the flat crit increase will bring it back up so your new body shots will still be doing the same damage as your current body shots. Headshots will be doing much more though. If you're satisfied with the damage it is doing now then you'll keep getting that damage even if you don't bother to leverage the improved headshots.

Also, the argument of "we shouldn't give these weapons substantial improvements because a handful of people might have to move a couple mods around" is nonsense. Caliban and Nova just got reworked and they are much better in all metrics. Should they not have been improved because someone might have to swap out a mod? Or because someone had some junk meme build on caliban's 1 that might have to change? No. Changes should be done carefully so as not to ruin people's investment in something valid, but if something is in a bad place and the improvement does not take away from what it can currently do and may require minor adjustments then there is no reason that improvement shouldn't be done. These snipers have a 0.2% use rate. Rubico has 2% but if not for eidolons it would be down there at 0.5% with vectis. And those are 2023 stats. 2024 probably worse with all the new incarnons. They need the changes.

The Komorex will become difficult to build because you have to account for the now 4 different ways it shoots. Right now both fire modes act the same with the exception that the alt has slower fire rate and procs viral.

No, halfing my bodyshot damage will hurt me, and if you add headshot damage it's not gonna do anything because It adds more than is needed, the enemy can only die once, that doesn't matter if it's 1 million damage or 2.

Also I don't think usage rates will change simply to the type of game warframe is. AOE damage is preferred, and unless you fundamentally change that about these weapons that isn't gonna change. If you do turn these weapons into AOE, you turn them into something they aren't. When single target damage is relavent again snipers will become more relevant. That's why the rubico has a home at all because single target damage shines there.

[Redrigoth]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

The Komorex will become difficult to build because you have to account for the now 4 different ways it shoots. Right now both fire modes act the same with the exception that the alt has slower fire rate and procs viral.

Komurex's first and second zoom would be the same. Third zoom would do more damage and seek heads. Hip fire gives you a close range option. Same build except you get more close range utility and longer range stronger headshots. Nothing difficult about it. If people choose to optimize for one style or another then that is their choice. The adaptability of the weapon is its highlight. If you don't feel like changing anything and only using zoom 1 and 2 you can and it will still function the same. "oh no people might have more modding options for the same weapon!"

1 hour ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

No, halfing my bodyshot damage will hurt me, and if you add headshot damage it's not gonna do anything because It adds more than is needed, the enemy can only die once, that doesn't matter if it's 1 million damage or 2.

What part of "you'll still be getting the same damage numbers from body shots as you do now after the buffs counterbalance the -45% on body" do you fail to comprehend? And the benefit of stronger headshots is for tougher enemies like fragmented one boss. Or acolytes. Or random enemies when your damage type is something they are resistant to, and it still works to 1 shot on head as you push on the levels. What even is your argument? You just complain for the sake of refusing change with no substantive argument.

1 hour ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

Also I don't think usage rates will change simply to the type of game warframe is. AOE damage is preferred, and unless you fundamentally change that about these weapons that isn't gonna change. If you do turn these weapons into AOE, you turn them into something they aren't. When single target damage is relavent again snipers will become more relevant. That's why the rubico has a home at all because single target damage shines there.

Usage would change. The more viable the weapons are, the more people interested in that style of play would be able to play it. People may pick up this Vulkar wraith and use it as a priority-target (Demolishers, acolytes, other fatties) killer. They might use the Sniptron to cover a far away excavator while they sit next to a second excavator. Or they might use it to kill eidolons at a distance. Etc. Yes aoe will still be most popular but atleast snipers become more usable in this environment. Each sniper would serve a different niche and the weapon class would be more relevant overall for when you want strong single target damage with a variety of side functions.

Edited October 2 by Redrigoth