100% Proc Chances On Ice, Fire, Toxic

[shut]

Basically, title.

 

- A tiny percent chance to set things on fire with a flamethrower and with a Frame whose very concept was to set things on fire is just... silly. Part of Damage 2.0 was to remove some of the "This ain't realistic at all" silliness that Damage 1.0 had, but honestly, this is far worse.

 

- Same goes for Poison.

 

- Right now, ice is simply overshadowed by many other elements in terms of damage capabilities. It needs its Slowdown effect to be boosted to a 100% proc rate to make it more viable, as a utility mod rather than a raw-damage mod. A lot of people modded their weapons with Ice (even unranked mods) simply for the purpose of making follow-up shots easier to aim and land. Those kinds of tactics should definitely stay in the game.

 

- Lightning's proc chance should only be 100% when used with Warframe abilities like Shock, since the huge damage boost it would give weapons like Synapse would be quite over the top.

 

 

Thoughts? Reasons for? Reasons against?

[Kolos1001]

Only poison should be 100% but the proc rates are based on the weapon not the mods.

 

Fire would be horrible at 100% because it causes a stun so you could just slap a fire mod on any weapon and have 100% stun. Same with cold you have crowd control at a high rate which is what they didn't want.

[Clock-Work]

Only poison should be 100% but the proc rates are based on the weapon not the mods.

 

Fire would be horrible at 100% because it causes a stun so you could just slap a fire mod on any weapon and have 100% stun. Same with cold you have crowd control at a high rate which is what they didn't want.

The ice mod point is valid. Though ice mods help with shielded enemies, the buff against shields wasn't why it was used. The fact that ice does extra damage to shields hasn't changed with the introduction of Armor 2.0, and it honestly would be more useful if ice mods received a proc bonus that aren't tied to weapon statuses.

[shut]

Only poison should be 100% but the proc rates are based on the weapon not the mods.

 

Fire would be horrible at 100% because it causes a stun so you could just slap a fire mod on any weapon and have 100% stun. Same with cold you have crowd control at a high rate which is what they didn't want.

Fire only has a chance at causing a panic effect, and even so, it doesn't affect enemies until after the animation that they're doing is complete. As someone who ran around with the Ignis pre-U11, I can confirm that it has much less of an impact on gameplay than you think. 

Ice, as I mentioned, is already on the short end of the stick in terms of Damage 2.0 elements. People generally only mod their weaponry with Ice so they can get Magnetic damage, which is a direct upgrade. Like I said, exchange damage for utility and reliability. Ice's 100% proc chance wasn't overpowered in Damage 1.0, and won't be in Damage 2.0.

[Kolos1001]

Fire only has a chance at causing a panic effect, and even so, it doesn't affect enemies until after the animation that they're doing is complete. As someone who ran around with the Ignis pre-U11, I can confirm that it has much less of an impact on gameplay than you think. 

Ice, as I mentioned, is already on the short end of the stick in terms of Damage 2.0 elements. People generally only mod their weaponry with Ice so they can get Magnetic damage, which is a direct upgrade. Like I said, exchange damage for utility and reliability. Ice's 100% proc chance wasn't overpowered in Damage 1.0, and won't be in Damage 2.0.

I thought Ice was incredibly strong. If you put it on your sentinel with puncture you can freeze a huge group of enemies without even trying.

[VentiGlondi]

I think the idea of proc chance being dependent on the weapon you're using is a good idea, except currently there's lack of weapons with high proc rates and proc mods are terrible.

I don't think that weapons with huge damage output should also have high proc rate, with a few exceptions (sniper rifles for instance, those are slow and hard to aim with).

 

On a side note, isn't it weird that Flux Rifle has 10% proc rate which makes it proc almost every second, while Ignis's 5% is rather weak?

Edit: So ignis has 1% proc rate? MY SOURCE HAS FAILED ME, NOOOO

 

Currently I'm almost certain bows and most of melee weapons deserve a proc chance increase.

The list of weapons in need is probably bigger though

Edited December 1, 2013 by VentiGlondi

[Kolos1001]

I think the idea of proc chance being dependent on the weapon you're using is a good idea, except currently there's lack of weapons with high proc rates and proc mods are terrible.

I don't think that weapons with huge damage output should also have high proc rate, with a few exceptions (sniper rifles for instance, those are slow and hard to aim with).

 

On a side note, isn't it weird that Flux Rifle has 10% proc rate which makes it proc almost every second, while Ignis's 5% is rather weak?

 

Currently I'm almost certain bows and most of melee weapons deserve a proc chance increase.

The list of weapons in need is probably bigger though

I thought ignis was 1%

[lautalocos]

the ignis has a 1% proc chance for basically each milisecond. it´s actually quite hard to not proc an enemy if you fire countiniously.

[ArmyOfFun]

You have to hold on for a few seconds to see a blast proc on iginis which is an obvious knockdown.  1/4th of a clip?  You generally don't see anything until you fight a decent level enemy what won't get ripped apart before the proc.

 

Idk.  and I'm not exactly sure if that is completely accurate, but I did feel that it takes a bit longer to proc than you suggest and it affects the mass of enemies at different intervals which makes it less reliable.  The last time I played my iginis was putting a 7th forma on just as update 11 went live.  I've been too busy leveling mastery fodder since then.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Rankless

[VentiGlondi]

the ignis has a 1% proc chance for basically each milisecond. it´s actually quite hard to not proc an enemy if you fire countiniously.

Well, Flux Rifle is also continuous but has ten times the proc.

Same for Embolist.

[ArmyOfFun]

Well, Flux Rifle is also continuous but has ten times the proc.

Same for Embolist.

And the synapse, but that actually means other continuous weapons can compete.  If they can't hit multitargets as easily I don't mind that they get a higher proc rate.  The rate on the ignis is just sad though as a cc weapon.  Now its just there for aoe damage weapon with a small chance to proc on each individual target.

[luanle21]

elemental weapons imo should have 75% base not a 100% BUT each faction gives a bonus proc % depend on the elemental or a deduction

like ignis be 75% vs grineer due to flesh and armor

50% vs moa

100% vs flesh no armor enemys

synapse be 100% to robotic/shield enemy (shield uses sometype of electronic device too much power = overload so its dmg shield more)

30% to flesh only enemy (flesh not very good conductivity)

75% vs flesh + armor

etc

[bobafetthotmail]

Only for elemental weapons. Ogris, Ignis, Embolist, Acrid, Torid, DUAL MIRE PRIME, and whatever has elemental damage as base damage.

 

Because seriously I shoot a friggin rocket launcher in their face and they don't even get stunned, use a flamer and they don't go on fire? What's up with the world?

[shut]

I thought Ice was incredibly strong. If you put it on your sentinel with puncture you can freeze a huge group of enemies without even trying.

Maybe if they're all squished right into each other and standing in a line. The high angle doesn't help, either. XD

It's incredibly situational unless you're using a Sweeper with maxed-out Magnum Force, in which case you'd be missing out on a huge amount of potential 1v1 damage.

[theammostore]

No. Elemental weapons in general need a status chance buff to something NEAR 100%, but not AT 100% because otherwise the status mods would be worthless no matter what their percentage would be. Ignis needs to set things on fire, yes. Synapse needs to arc lightning everything, yes. But what they do not need is a guaranteed 100% chance to do that to everything. With the way the ammo system works, simply a high % would be just fine, while still giving the status mods a purpose.

[shut]

No. Elemental weapons in general need a status chance buff to something NEAR 100%, but not AT 100% because otherwise the status mods would be worthless no matter what their percentage would be. Ignis needs to set things on fire, yes. Synapse needs to arc lightning everything, yes. But what they do not need is a guaranteed 100% chance to do that to everything. With the way the ammo system works, simply a high % would be just fine, while still giving the status mods a purpose.

I think the status mods would do well with the more dramatic effects, like Lightning's chain zap, Blast's knockdown, Radiation's "Chaos" effect, Magnet's anti-Shield hammer and the like.

Poison and Fire's DoT is incredibly low, and ice needs to be reliable enough to warrant its hit on your damage output (i.e. a mod slot that could've been used for something else, such as any other element or a combination that would include Magnet or Blast damage). Another precious mod slot for proc chance should not be necessary for these three.

Edited December 2, 2013 by SortaRandom

[-Kittens-]

No proc rate should ever be 100. It should be 50 base for PURE elemental weapons and 25% for any subsequent combined elemental weapons, and there should be no favorites based on perceived issue.

[SoanoS]

I think 100% proc rate for fire on a continuous-fire weapon such as Ignis would be a bit too high. This would create the impression that all the enemies have had the courtesy of taking a bath in lighter fluid, and anything even remotely flammable near them will set them alight. I think 15% would be enough for fire DoT proc for Ignis, as it will consume 10 rounds/second (unmodified) and thus has a chance to set the enemy alight 10 times over a short burst of fire. More often than not this would end up proccing at least once. Which is all we really want. 1% is not enough, and no number of status chance mods will change it much, if at all.

[superbot34]

Also remember that on alot of weapons, like my Aklex for example, the physical damage will proc 99% more often than your elemental damage does. my aklex will even deal the low slash and impact procs more than my fire damage against infested, and that is just pure bullS#&$. so no, even at "25%" proc chance, it will actually proc about 5% of the time. the basic elementals need to be buffed to 100% proc chance, even for mods. combination elements is another story, that makes you choose if you want 100% proccing ice damage, or less proccing but more powerful magnetic. right now, ice is completely useless as the slowing will rarely proc, you will kill the enemy before it procs, and it will last only a moment when it procs. 

Edited December 2, 2013 by superbot34

[ThePresident777]

Damage 2.0 mad damage boring, uneventful.

[Azamagon]

This would fix a lot of the elemental issues of Damage 2.0:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/140103-how-i-would-rebalance-damage-20/

 

Basicly, all elements should have weaker guaranteed effects, but still keep procs as stronger debuffs.

For example - Fire should have a guaranteed DoT when you hit with it (without any stun), but if you have a proc from it, the DoT will be stronger and cause the target to be stunned (with the panic animation and all)

[Cytobel]

Proc chance is something that needs to apply to standard attacks, period.  When using a ground-pound, there should be NO roll whatsoever to see if knockdown is going to proc.  When hitting something with a strictly elemental damage, the elemental effect should proc.  Flamethrowers light things on fire.  They don't roll dice to see if it happens.

 

The proc chance is something that should apply to bullets, normal melee swings, and the like.  However, lets look at the Mire.  Here's a weapon that should create a poison burst on ground slam, like the Amphis needs to create electricity.  The question becomes this: should a corrosive-build Mire or a magnetic Amphis autoproc their effect, or the elemental combination?

 

Really, I am in favor of elemental weapons getting the elemental damage to autoproc (on the right attack condition), but I don't really think that any of the combination or secondary elemental combinations should trigger without the proc chance.  In other words, a blast Ignis should light things on fire UNLESS the blast procs, then that's what happens for a split second.

 

As to the rediculous Synapse possibilities, meh.  I haven't seen the electrical proc spread farther past the first target than the Ignis blast radius, and Volt's Shock shows what sort of joke that kind of chaining is.  For what it's worth, this means that the enemies also get the benefits we would, so that balances out.

 

Sidenote: I need sleep.  I hope some if you can make some form of sence of this gibberish.

[Neinth]

Couldn't to 100% proc rate--reason being something like a Blast Ignis would be way to op'ed

 

Elementals do need a boost to their proc chances,but it needs to be reasonable,for something like the Ignis even 10% might be to much.I'd like to see 5% on it,and go from there.

[shut]

Couldn't to 100% proc rate--reason being something like a Blast Ignis would be way to op'ed

 

Elementals do need a boost to their proc chances,but it needs to be reasonable,for something like the Ignis even 10% might be to much.I'd like to see 5% on it,and go from there.

I'm talking specifically about Ice, Fire, and Toxic. The effects of the latter two are small, so impact on gameplay would be minimal, but it's to make the weapons make sense as they once did-- e.g. Ignis lighting things on fire. When someone douses you in flames, there shouldn't be a dice roll on whether you catch fire or not.

Ice seems a bit debatable, but considering its complete lack of effectiveness as a separate element (most people just use it to get Magnetic damage, since it's a direct upgrade by a long shot), there is currently no reason to use a separate Ice mod on its own over any other element. I'm suggesting that the 100% slowdown effect would give a good boost in utility, but the effectiveness of the damage itself would remain worthless as a compromise. It would give people a reason to use Ice separately once again without it being any more overpowered than it was in 1.0.

[Achronus]

I have posted elsewhere...

Proc chances for Melee should be MUCH higher.

 

It is one thing to be shot by poison bullets (that may or may not fly out the back of the target)

It is quite another to have a poison dripping blade slice into the target all the while splattering WILDLY more poison than the bullet coud ever contain.