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Damage 2.0 Spreadsheet


Volt_Cruelerz
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Warframe PC Build: 11.8.0 (Surfaced Calculations update in progress though)

 

As many of you may know, I made a gargantuan spreadsheet for damage 1.0. I've been working on a new one for Damage 2.0, but I've been waiting for the storm to die down a bit and for us to get a better handle on the new mechanics before publishing it.

While it doesn't have quite everything yet, I feel I'm ready to put this out there.

In general there are some color coding elements that you should pay heed to if you intend to download a copy and keep it up to date (or if I fall off the map and someone else decides to maintain it instead).

Color Coding
- Blue: elemental statistic
Light Blue: non-elemental statistic
Red: resistance statistic
Green: Mods or other variable to be modified by the user
Yellow: holder statistic (columns containing these are hidden)
Dark Grey: calculated statistic
Red Berry: critical calculated statistic (these are all at the far right of sheet 1)

 

Terms Used

Physical Total: the total amount of physical (impact+puncture+slash) done by the weapon

Total Base: total base damage (physical+elemental)

Procs/Minute: the average number of status effects per minute (assuming no more than one proc per bullet in the case of rifles or trigger pull in the case of shotguns)

Proc Odds: the chance that a given ammo expenditure will impart a status on the target

Mag Life: the time it takes to empty the magazine when firing at the maximum rate

Crit Modifier: averaged effect of critical hits

Unsurfaced: the effect of a weapon's damage assuming a hypothetical enemy that took exactly 100% from all elemental types

Surfaced: the effect of a weapon's damage on a given enemy type (shield, armor, flesh, infested, or robotic)

DPS: damage per second; in the vast majority of cases, the main measure of a weapon's performance (exceptions include things like snipers and burst rifles which specialize in being able to kill the target very rapidly).

BDPS: when someone says DPS, they usually mean BDPS which is "burst damage per second."  BDPS is the average damage dealt to a target per second as long as the magazine lasts or assuming an infinite magazine.  Useful to determine rates of killing normal enemies.

SDPS: sustained damage per second; this is what happens when you start accounting for reload times.  Useful for determining the effectiveness against high-health enemies like bosses.

Average Damage: average total unsurfaced damage dealt per click.  Also known as "Ammo Efficiency."  Usually the secondary measure of a weapon's performance.
DPS Rank: the rank of a given weapon in regards to unsurfaced BDPS when considered from descending order.  Higher is better.
Ammo Efficiency Rank: the rank of a given weapon in regards to ammo efficiency when considered from descending order.  Higher is better.
Mod Efficiency: a measure of the amount mods have improved the weapon's Unsurfaced BDPS (final_UBDPS-initial_UBDPS)/initial_UBDPS)
Mod Efficiency Rank: the rank given as above only for mod efficiency.  Not displayed in any graphs as this is not a meaningful statistic in regards to how well a weapon will perform in-game.  It is only relevant for build development.
 

Damage 2.0 Spreadsheet

 

Best Equipment

Rifle: Soma

Sniper: Lanka (for single-target damage) or Snipetron Vandal (for general use)

Bow: Dread

Shotgun: Boar Prime

Primary: Boar Prime

Secondary: Brakk

Melee: Galatine

 

Sheets
1. Weapon Stats: Raw damage calculations (don't look at it unless you really want to see lots of numbers)
2. Graphs: contains graphs for DPS, ammo efficiency, and more
3. Rank Graph: meant as a general indication of which equipment is best. I have it set up to be such that higher is better.
4. Resistances by Element: shown in a way that closely matches the way the wiki displays them. Very human-readable.
5. Element by Resistances: used in internal calculations. Less human-readable.
6. Steve's Sheet: a sheet containing the implications of Steve's original system that he posted to the design council. The numbers may be very different than they were in that image, so this sheet is merely for posterity.

Regarding Mod Builds
1. I have chosen builds that in most cases attempt to maximize DPS.
2. Note that there are crit-based pistol builds, but as I found in Damage 1.0 in general, those are not any more viable than their traditional counterparts. I have not seen sufficient evidence thus far to adjust pistols as a whole to crit builds. That said, the Brakk and a couple others (Magnus perhaps?) may get a crit build once I get the chance to do the math.
3. If you don't like a build I have, please download a copy and toy with the green values to find a better build. Please respond in the thread with the reasons and the numbers that support your claim, preferably using the aforementioned "critical calculated statistics."

Known Issues
1. Some cells say "NEED DATA."  This is because I'm waiting on others to perform the necessary tests/datamining to determine what these stats are.
2. Elemental Procs do not factor into damage done. This is because we do not yet understand them well enough.

Other Notes
1. I will update cells that have "NEED DATA" as I become aware of what the numbers are.  If you'd like to expedite the process, you can post in the thread saying that one of the weapons with "NEED DATA" now has data and giving me a source.
2. If you notice an issue with my math that is not covered above, please let me know. Sans-rage is preferable.
3. Feel free to download a copy and play with the green columns to try out different builds. Beware that there is no prohibition on impossible builds!
4. If I don't update it for more than a month, someone can PM me. If I don't respond within a week, the person is free to take over and republish it on google docs so others can see it and so that it can be under their control. (Due to trolls, there's no way I'm just going to open up the spreadsheet for just anyone to modify.)
5. I base the statistics on what I find in-game and on the wikia. I try to avoid using the testing of others until I have verified it or they have submitted pictures/videos of it.
6. Some statistics cannot be accounted for without making assumptions about the conditions of the scenario! The Ignis and Ogris have AoE. The Miter and Glaive-type weapons can bounce.  Shotguns have falloff.  The Torid is off in its own little world.  The Gorgon, Supra, and Cestra have spool times. Accuracy is ignored.

7. Because I am a PC player, I will do my best to keep it up to date according to the PC build update schedule.  There is the possibility that information may be slightly off around the time of updates for PS4 players.  At the time of this writing, the Brakk's damage was reallocated today on the PC build.  I don't know and don't care to keep track of when this change will happen on PS4.

Current Status
- Weapons: waiting on dataminers/testers to find out the numbers for the nine remaining weapons.
- Abilities: incomplete

Edited by Volt_Cruelerz
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from the notes of update 11.1.0:

 

 

meaning both rending strike and accelerated blast work like their regular counterparts. the ui reflects that change in case of rending strike (only have the ichors) but not in case of accelerated blast.

That means nothing in this case.  160% of 0 is still 0.

Edited by Volt_Cruelerz
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err, yes, that's what i was trying to convey. just thought you operated with how it worked before 11.1.0 based on the quote. guess prova is a charge weapon then.

edit: doh', didn't read the white column... sorry...

Edited by SlyBoots
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You can always download a copy and for the next hour or so, I'll have ES-FE unhidden.  Also, what makes you think that it's wrong?  I've got things set up to deal corrosive damage rather than magnetic damage, so of course they'll be doing more damage to robotic than shields.

I did get a chance to look at it a little yesterday but it got late so I had to quit.  Quick question, did you use (mostly) blast and corrosive for your calculations vs every faction?  My statement had been on the presumption that you had used the most effective combo of elements against each faction.

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I did get a chance to look at it a little yesterday but it got late so I had to quit.  Quick question, did you use (mostly) blast and corrosive for your calculations vs every faction?  My statement had been on the presumption that you had used the most effective combo of elements against each faction.

I went anti-Grineer, focusing on Corrosive and then Blast wherever space allowed.

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Is dmg fall-off taken in account for all shotguns/brakk when calculating DPS or do i have to assume it's "dps within 10m" ?

You have to assume DPS is within 10m.  That said, given Fatpig's testing which showed IIRC 50% damage on the Brakk after 20m, the Brakk would still be better than any primary except the Boar Prime (which has its own falloff of course so the Boar Prime would only be better for about a meter or so before Brakk wins again).

 

The reason I don't account for falloff is because it is necessarily tricky and involves magic numbers which aren't good.  I had to pick a magic number for my armor calculations, but I saw no way around it.

 

Also, if I get into falloff, that really means I'm accounting for range which means I also ought to account for cone of fire (which no one has accurate stats on) and recoil (same issue) and enemy profile size/shape.  I've seen other people try to do this before, but the result always depends on too many assumptions to be generalized so is ultimately meaningless.

 

It's a bit like in Damage 1.0 and the Hind.  Did it have the highest DPS of anything on paper?  Was it still bad in the game?  Yep.  The RoF/FPS bug killed it.  Speaking of, I should try testing that bug to see if it's still present in U11 some time.

Edited by Volt_Cruelerz
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You have to assume DPS is within 10m. That said, given Fatpig's testing which showed IIRC 50% damage on the Brakk after 20m, the Brakk would still be better than any primary except the Boar Prime (which has its own falloff of course so the Boar Prime would only be better for about a meter or so before Brakk wins again).

The reason I don't account for falloff is because it is necessarily tricky and involves magic numbers which aren't good. I had to pick a magic number for my armor calculations, but I saw no way around it.

Also, if I get into falloff, that really means I'm accounting for range which means I also ought to account for cone of fire (which no one has accurate stats on) and recoil (same issue) and enemy profile size/shape. I've seen other people try to do this before, but the result always depends on too many assumptions to be generalized so is ultimately meaningless.

It's a bit like in Damage 1.0 and the Hind. Did it have the highest DPS of anything on paper? Was it still bad in the game? Yep. The RoF/FPS bug killed it. Speaking of, I should try testing that bug to see if it's still present in U11 some time.


Nope, is way more than 50%. Brakk [10,20] means damage falloff at 10m and decrease linearly until 20m where it will do its minimal (some said 25% of unmodded pellet damage). Edited by Definitegj
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Nope, is way more than 50%. Brakk [10,20] means damage falloff at 10m and decrease linearly until 20m. However, each pellet will do 5 damage at minimal.

Given 10 pellets and minimum of 5 per pellet, that'd be up to a 66.7% reduction which means that the Boar Prime would still only be dominant for a couple meters.

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Given 10 pellets and minimum of 5 per pellet, that'd be up to a 66.7% reduction which means that the Boar Prime would still only be dominant for a couple meters.

That is because fatpig's brakk is unmodded. Even if you mod it, you will still get single digit damage after 20m.

Edited by Definitegj
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Hmmm not sure if this is an issue apart from doubling DPS but your equations in the Unsurfaced BDPS and Unsurfaced SDPS include both the physical types broken down damage and also the damage total.

Huh?  I don't see what you're talking about.  I see the following:

 

=SUM(H3:R3)*V3*AG3*AA3*W3

 

H is the summed physical column and R is the Corrosive column.  It doesn't look like it's counting physical damage twice to me.

Edited by Volt_Cruelerz
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You have to assume DPS is within 10m.  That said, given Fatpig's testing which showed IIRC 50% damage on the Brakk after 20m, the Brakk would still be better than any primary except the Boar Prime (which has its own falloff of course so the Boar Prime would only be better for about a meter or so before Brakk wins again).

 

The reason I don't account for falloff is because it is necessarily tricky and involves magic numbers which aren't good.  I had to pick a magic number for my armor calculations, but I saw no way around it.

 

Also, if I get into falloff, that really means I'm accounting for range which means I also ought to account for cone of fire (which no one has accurate stats on) and recoil (same issue) and enemy profile size/shape.  I've seen other people try to do this before, but the result always depends on too many assumptions to be generalized so is ultimately meaningless.

 

It's a bit like in Damage 1.0 and the Hind.  Did it have the highest DPS of anything on paper?  Was it still bad in the game?  Yep.  The RoF/FPS bug killed it.  Speaking of, I should try testing that bug to see if it's still present in U11 some time.

 

ok thanks, understandable

 

i suggest ppl to take in account their own "skill & accuracy" at firing to not be disappointed when trying out weapons because let's say i use a Synapse and you use a Boar Prime or a Supra and we stand at 15m from target and you miss 50% of your pellets/shots well...

things explain themselves i guess

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I did get a chance to look at it a little yesterday but it got late so I had to quit.  Quick question, did you use (mostly) blast and corrosive for your calculations vs every faction?  My statement had been on the presumption that you had used the most effective combo of elements against each faction.

If you intend to use all 4 elemental mods(90% each mod is a big boost) then corrosive and blast works out to be best for robotic, infested and grineer. That's a pretty neat little package(no 30%IPS beats dps until 4th elemental 90% slotted, unless maybe if the element is -25% or worse).

 I can't think of situations requiring shield/unarmored-flesh damage that doesn't also have robotic/armored enemies.

 

The best for high level shields would be high status chance, magnetic+heat? loadout I guess, that relies more on status proc rate as shields scale higher so maybe an automatic with Hammer Shot, Rifle Aptitude, Electric, Cold, Speed Trigger, Shred. (Corpus scale shields, not armor right?) Idk if any secondary has a base status chance that can combat hammer shot's benefit, I'll look later and try to collect status chance data. The chances will likely be so varied the final BDPS Shield rank won't have much competition.

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Am I the only one that hates Blast because I am sick of thinking enemies are dead when they aren't because they fall over?

I've been running Viral and Heat, it's not very all round damage but Grineer and Infected are the races I play the most high level and it's a great combo for them. Am I possibly missing a trick and not being optimal here? (considering I wont use blast) Would this change your spreadsheets much?

Edited by Haree
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Am I the only one that hates Blast because I am sick of thinking enemies are dead when they aren't because they fall over?

I've been running Viral and Heat, it's not very all round damage but Grineer and Infected are the races I play the most high level and it's a great combo for them. Am I possibly missing a trick and not being optimal here? (considering I wont use blast) Would this change your spreadsheets much?

It would mean no corrosive which is fantastic against armor.

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Where is Armour apart from on Grineer? Toxin is just way more effective against armoured Grineer than Corrosive. At least based on this threads maths and tests against Lech Krill. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/89592-unofficial-weapon-benchmark/

When Toxin proc's it does a measly DoT.  When Corrosive procs, it does some form of armor reduction.  We aren't sure yet what the math is, but the implication is that in general it will be better to use Corrosive to bring down the armor for everything else.

 

And while the majority of Armor may be focused on Grineer, Fusion MOAs have it.  Also, there is the consideration that Toxic is bad against Infested and terrible against MOAs.

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When Toxin proc's it does a measly DoT.  When Corrosive procs, it does some form of armor reduction.  We aren't sure yet what the math is, but the implication is that in general it will be better to use Corrosive to bring down the armor for everything else.

 

And while the majority of Armor may be focused on Grineer, Fusion MOAs have it.  Also, there is the consideration that Toxic is bad against Infested and terrible against MOAs.

I apologise I meant Viral, not Toxin.

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If you intend to use all 4 elemental mods(90% each mod is a big boost) then corrosive and blast works out to be best for robotic, infested and grineer. That's a pretty neat little package(no 30%IPS beats dps until 4th elemental 90% slotted, unless maybe if the element is -25% or worse).

 I can't think of situations requiring shield/unarmored-flesh damage that doesn't also have robotic/armored enemies.

 

The best for high level shields would be high status chance, magnetic+heat? loadout I guess, that relies more on status proc rate as shields scale higher so maybe an automatic with Hammer Shot, Rifle Aptitude, Electric, Cold, Speed Trigger, Shred. (Corpus scale shields, not armor right?) Idk if any secondary has a base status chance that can combat hammer shot's benefit, I'll look later and try to collect status chance data. The chances will likely be so varied the final BDPS Shield rank won't have much competition.

True it is best for robotic, infested, and armor.

Sure you can.  Any Corpus mission.  No armor at all.  Now, Blast+Corrosive gives 175 vs shields, 225 vs flesh, and 250 vs robotic. Total 650. Viral+Rad 200 shields, 300 flesh, 200 robotic. Total 700. Mag+Gas 275 shields, 225 flesh, 200 robotic. Total 700.  Add to this that all Corpus units have shields and Mag+Gas becomes the most effective elements to use vs Corpus.

 

I Haven't gotten to procs yet either.

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Am I the only one that hates Blast because I am sick of thinking enemies are dead when they aren't because they fall over?

I've been running Viral and Heat, it's not very all round damage but Grineer and Infected are the races I play the most high level and it's a great combo for them. Am I possibly missing a trick and not being optimal here? (considering I wont use blast) Would this change your spreadsheets much?

Yes you are missing a trick.  You should be running Corrosive plus heat if you don't like the proc of blast, if you mainly play against grineer and infested. 

 

Where is Armour apart from on Grineer? Toxin is just way more effective against armoured Grineer than Corrosive. At least based on this threads maths and tests against Lech Krill. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/89592-unofficial-weapon-benchmark/

 From what I believe they have posted, their tests are based using the -30% armor aura.  This very well may throw off all the damage multipliers physical and elemental, so they could be right.  Also I noticed one post saying that the numbers they get don't always work meaning they got lucky with a proc.

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