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Pay to Play?


Raentheria
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So far it looks like a free to play but still has goodies that are bought with cash like weapons,warframes so on .......

I've played for 5 hours and the game looks and plays great, It's sure one of the best Free to Play games out there.

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"Wah wah wah, I can't get this, too much work, so it HAS to be pay2win, wah wah wah." That's all I hear in EVERY SINGLE GAME now. It's only pay2win if you're at a disadvantage without paying for extra equipment, weapons, armor, etc. etc., and you blame it all on pay2win just to make you look like you know what you're talking about. Please stop crying about it, it's not p2w, it's perfectly fine, you can afford all the items easily, you're just too stupid and/or lazy to notice.

As for the topic, it will be full free to play. As Anders just stated, it's one of the best f2p games of all. Only WarFace could match WarFrame. It's practically the FPS version of WarFrame.

All hail WarFrame and WarFace.

Edited by WallyDin
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Wallydin there is abit of p2w though, to get pro for weapons you have to pay with platinum, and later on i do consider pro close to necessary if you wanna solo the harder missions. So unless they make it a possibility to buy platinum with credits, i will always consider this abit of p2w

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well players can worry about that AFTER it's out of closed beta. We do have 50 platinum after all. What you spend it on is on you, and you shouldn't blame anyone for that, not even the developers for making the prices. Just spend it on two pro upgrades, two of the best items (weapons or warframes) you feel absolutely confident with. It's like giving another meaning to the saying, "save the best for last".

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But doesn't that make it pay2win then?

The player relying on upgrades that is only availble if willing to buy them with real money?

And even if we start with 50, that means we HAVE to stick with the same 2 thing we decide to make pro so we have a shoot at the endgame missions? To me it seems kinda off balance

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I'm not relying on any upgrades or w/e. I'm relying on teamwork, as should every other player should. They only rely on upgrades to make it easier and less challenging, which equals less fun. I'm waiting till I get ALL the items, then I find the best combinations. Slap on those mods and bam good combinations. THEN (thought I would go pro on that plan huh?), when I'm happy with my weakest combination, I make them pro to put more mods on them, which evens everything out, and I can make more combos. Something no one tried yet? Not until today!

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I'm not relying on any upgrades or w/e. I'm relying on teamwork, as should every other player should. They only rely on upgrades to make it easier and less challenging, which equals less fun. I'm waiting till I get ALL the items, then I find the best combinations. Slap on those mods and bam good combinations. THEN (thought I would go pro on that plan huh?), when I'm happy with my weakest combination, I make them pro to put more mods on them, which evens everything out, and I can make more combos. Something no one tried yet? Not until today!

Its not so much about what works, its more about having fun while playing.

Currently playing with two friends, both of them have already invested enough to get pro in all their stuff while im waiting abit before spending real money, and i find it very lacluster to play when they can deal 1.8K damage with one sniper shot while i have to use 3 shots from my shotgun just to finish up a standard guy.

Essentially if you are willing to pay you become twice as strong, which imo is to much.

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Well, I guess that elaborate plan for playing this video game in that particular way means that it is not pay to win. That settles it, guys, it's not pay to win. Case closed.

It's not exactly pay to win, like a game such as World of Tanks with superior ammo.

BUT, it definatly makes it a ton easier with early unlocking of the better weapons etc.

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It's not exactly pay to win, like a game such as World of Tanks with superior ammo.

BUT, it definatly makes it a ton easier with early unlocking of the better weapons etc.

That's called ''Skipping the progression curve'' You can pay and unlock a few weapons that cost a little more to save yourself some time. The really epic and good weapons however are all made in the foundry and you can't buy the materials you need for the foundry making it only apply to the first basic tiers of weaponry. On the warframe part. Every warframe has it's strengths and weaknesses and there is no ''superior'' one. Buying one you like doesn't give you extra power it just gives you the specific warframe you like a little earlier.

Furthermore, a free player will propably be stronger then a paying player when they both have exactly the same things because the free player had to do missions to unlock it and has a lot more experience with the game then the paying player giving him a edge making this effectively ''Pay2Lose''.

If you want to get an example of ''Pay2Win'' You should look at World of Tanks with their golden ammo. If that's still around that is.

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That's called ''Skipping the progression curve'' You can pay and unlock a few weapons that cost a little more to save yourself some time. The really epic and good weapons however are all made in the foundry and you can't buy the materials you need for the foundry making it only apply to the first basic tiers of weaponry. On the warframe part. Every warframe has it's strengths and weaknesses and there is no ''superior'' one. Buying one you like doesn't give you extra power it just gives you the specific warframe you like a little earlier.

Furthermore, a free player will propably be stronger then a paying player when they both have exactly the same things because the free player had to do missions to unlock it and has a lot more experience with the game then the paying player giving him a edge making this effectively ''Pay2Lose''.

If you want to get an example of ''Pay2Win'' You should look at World of Tanks with their golden ammo. If that's still around that is.

Did you even read my post? lol...

Anyway, I agree with you a long way, but stuff like boosters especially does give a big edge to paying customers, but as long as this game is PvE it doesn't really mean much anyway.

Edited by FanaticGamer
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It's Pay2Win simply because of the 'pro' unlocks. Everything else can be bought with credits (and why wouldn't you buy them with credits seeing as how the pricing for platinum is so stupidly high compared to other Free-to-play games) - but in order to get the actual, in-game advantage that a pro warframe or weapon offers - you have to pay with real money.

Don't mistake me, I think Warframe is an excellent game and a really polished example of how good free to play games can be. But the pricing structure needs to be more in-line with games like League of Legends or Tribes: Ascend. And there definitely 100% needs to be a credit option for the pro unlocks.

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Did you even read my post? lol...

Anyway, I agree with you a long way, but stuff like boosters especially does give a big edge to paying customers, but as long as this game is PvE it doesn't really mean much anyway.

Yes I did. It's by far the best example so I just repeated it

definitely pay2win when pro unlocks can only be achieved via plats, and when it gives 2x more upgrades/slots.

that is a huge difference.

The devs already said they were looking into that.

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Alright lets shed some light.

Definition of pay to win - giving an edge to players who pays real life money.

And the little matter of giving TWICE the upgrades for paying players is 100% pay to win, you can go about it how you wish, you can fanboy it out all you want it is not going to change a thing. The game IS good there is no question about that, and developers need to eat thats a fact. However, they are making us pay for the wrong things. The best and only free to play games to ever succed are the ones that have cosmetics and time savers in the shop and ONLY those. The way I see it, if they replace the upgrade cost with the ingame money it is resolved and since the cost is only 20 platnium it will not destroy the games budget.

P.S. I did not read all of the comments, maybe somebody already explained this. I read the first few and already saw the need to clear things up with the fanboys.

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Alright lets shed some light.

Definition of pay to win - giving an edge to players who pays real life money.

And the little matter of giving TWICE the upgrades for paying players is 100% pay to win, you can go about it how you wish, you can fanboy it out all you want it is not going to change a thing. The game IS good there is no question about that, and developers need to eat thats a fact. However, they are making us pay for the wrong things. The best and only free to play games to ever succed are the ones that have cosmetics and time savers in the shop and ONLY those. The way I see it, if they replace the upgrade cost with the ingame money it is resolved and since the cost is only 20 platnium it will not destroy the games budget.

P.S. I did not read all of the comments, maybe somebody already explained this. I read the first few and already saw the need to clear things up with the fanboys.

So World of Tanks, Battlefield: Heroes, DC Universe Online, Champions Online, EVE Online (a game where you have to 'pay to win' after buying a monthly subscription due to how PLEX works), etc etc etc... don't exist and never succeeded? And aren't popular in the west? Because all of them are successful to a greater or lesser degree and all of them are "pay to win" to a greater or lesser degree. If you want to convince people that "pay to win" is a bad thing you could start your argument on a solid factual basis. "The best" F2P games might only have cosmetics and timesavers. I don't contest that. Because "the best" is intensely subjective. Profitability is somewhat more important than being "the best" for a business.

If I can get a LoL-like 70 million users if anyone can get the full game experience by playing and the only things you can buy are cosmetics and timesavers, but only make 25 cents per user, or get only 10 million users via more aggressive monetization including "pay to win" but make 2 dollars per user... as a businessman I know exactly which one I want. Also, given all the Korean/Chinese MMOs that are percolating into the west with "pay to win" schemes presumably there are enough players who don't care about/will only buy pay to win items (IIRC BF:Heroes exit polls implied that 15-20% of their players would only buy Pay To Win items) to make it a reasonably profitable system.

Edited by MJ12
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Alright lets shed some light.

Definition of pay to win - giving an edge to players who pays real life money.

And the little matter of giving TWICE the upgrades for paying players is 100% pay to win, you can go about it how you wish, you can fanboy it out all you want it is not going to change a thing. The game IS good there is no question about that, and developers need to eat thats a fact. However, they are making us pay for the wrong things. The best and only free to play games to ever succed are the ones that have cosmetics and time savers in the shop and ONLY those. The way I see it, if they replace the upgrade cost with the ingame money it is resolved and since the cost is only 20 platnium it will not destroy the games budget.

P.S. I did not read all of the comments, maybe somebody already explained this. I read the first few and already saw the need to clear things up with the fanboys.

So it seems

The devs already said they were looking into that.

As far as I've seen the devs are very receptive to feedback. If you bring it in a proper and mature way that is.

I'm sure this will be resolved soon

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If you stretch the limits of your imagination and considering PRO equipment a nessecity for winning (which it isn't, player 4 player coop as it was designed, and you can win this game without paying 1 cent), then yes I guess it's Pay2Win.

Is that a bad thing however? No I don't think it is, you get the vast majority of this game for free, absolutely free, and to get the last tiny bit, you have to shell out a few bucks for a very good game, I don't see the problem.

As long as this game is only PvE I will not have anything against the PRO upgrades.

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I feel like platinum is for those who want to expand their experience with Warframe. We the players are not entitled to anything, its a free damn game! The prices are fine, they have to make some profit so they can continue to make content and put food on the tables (assuming). You don't have to buy platinumn, heck, you can use credits to almost buy everything!

Upgrading to pro is for those who want to expand the game. For the more advanced players. Its already a free game, so spending a few bucks to spend 20 platinum to Pro a item is nothing.

I personally feel that DE are doing things pretty dang well. Their game is quite unique, the Evolution engine is insanely optimized, and they're only in beta. Sure theres room for improvement, more content, ect; but for a F2P game, this is one of my favorites.

A perfect balance between playing for currency or buying currency in my opinion.

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I feel like platinum is for those who want to expand their experience with Warframe. We the players are not entitled to anything, its a free damn game! The prices are fine, they have to make some profit so they can continue to make content and put food on the tables (assuming). You don't have to buy platinumn, heck, you can use credits to almost buy everything!

Upgrading to pro is for those who want to expand the game. For the more advanced players. Its already a free game, so spending a few bucks to spend 20 platinum to Pro a item is nothing.

I personally feel that DE are doing things pretty dang well. Their game is quite unique, the Evolution engine is insanely optimized, and they're only in beta. Sure theres room for improvement, more content, ect; but for a F2P game, this is one of my favorites.

A perfect balance between playing for currency or buying currency in my opinion.

Spot on, and not even that, people always seems to forget the fact that you start out with 50 platinum points, at no cost.

This allows you to pro both your favourite WarFrame, and your preferred weapon. Anything else and you need to pay, extremely generous of DE.

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