Proportionate Shared Xp

[KingTaro]

Ok, the Exp change sounds... AWESOME!

[Brahmastra]

Sounds interesting.

[Azure_Kytia]

Yay, no more leechers in high level missions!

Well, there'll still be a huge numbers of obliviously undergeared players (level/rank restriction soon?), but it's a great step forward!

 

Nay, more high ranks in low level missions :(

Newbies aren't gonna like it I presume...

 

From the description, we'd possibly see more High-level "invasions" depending on their implementation. We'll just have to wait and see.

[djentlemenBehold]

Although you might think this will make ranking up fresh gear slower (because you have to actually use the weapon to do it) the opposite is more likely to be true: if you use a weapon exclusively it should earn shared XP three times faster than it did before since none of the shared XP is being wasted on your max-ranked gear.

 

This really doesn't help if you're trying to rank up one of the useless, weak melee weapons for Mastery  and enemies keep dying before you can even kill them, let alone start swinging, because someone else is shooting at it.

[thatsleepyguy]

One problem with this is that you could take an unranked weapon on a mission and level it up many times without using it -- how can one master a sword that is never swung?

No, this isn't a freaking problem. Have you played this darn game? Do you know the pain of having to level up something terrible like the Vulkar or like 50 melee weapons that are all bloody useless? Piggybacking xp off of teammate kills is the only viable way to level pieces of garbage like those without feeling the need to quit playing this game.

[letir]

it's you who doesn't understand the meaning of word "mastery"

"You can't be a "Great Sage" without 9999 Mercury runs with useless S#&$ like Dual Skana!" - this meaning, right?

[Thelonious]

From the description, we'd possibly see more High-level "invasions" depending on their implementation. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

Hmm, a more restrictive matchmaking could be necessary, like NEVER EVER match low ranks with high ranks.

Right now, it doesn't seem to be the case, I still get matched with 1 and 2's in Apollodorus...

[TangoSierra]

Please for the love of everything holy do not deploy a "fix" at 6PM tonight then leave it to be broken for the whole night. I finish my last exam today and will be mighty pissed if you break the game for a full day like what happened with the survival leveling bug. Just saying.

[Azure_Kytia]

Right now, it doesn't seem to be the case, I still get matched with 1 and 2's in Apollodorus...

Yup. It's always the way :'(

[General_Krull]

Good luck leveling that Skana in a reasonable amount of time. Or any weapon for that matter. 

[Gekker]

If I got it right, players will be encouraged to use their lowest ranked weapon to maximize XP / Mastery progression.

If so. I like the system so far. In my opinion its definitaly better then the old leeching squad xp system.

 

Though, I see a little problem.

 

Imagine a player claiming a new melee weapon in the foundry. All his gear except the new melee weapon are level 30. So his goal is to gain as much XP for his melee weapon.

The most effective way to do this with the new XP system would be to use the under-ranked melee weapon in a game with possibly high level enemies leeching a lot XP through your team-mates. The reason why I am using the term leeching is because you will be encouraged to use your least effective weapon (in this example an unranked melee weapon) instead of a weapon or ability that helps you contribute to the game.

You are actually discouraged to use your e.g. level 30 Primary weapon.

 

Its an improvement though.

 

But what I would like to see is an XP system that encourages you to support your team effectively. For example. Right now I am really discouraged to use Warframe abilities that kill huge enemy groups because I know that my gear won't get any of that XP. I am encouraged to withhold myself in order to gain XP correctly. Thats something that does not seem to get adressed with the new system.

 

The best way to progress right now is to create leeching squads where one Nova, Ember, Banshee or Mag etc. is killing all the enemies in Defense or Mobile Defense missions while the others leech all the XP and then swap roles for the next mission. Its really effective but pretty boring tbh.

 

Please have this issue in mind when creating a new XP system.

I even think there should be a higher priority in ensuring a leech-free XP system where all teammates support each other in the best way possible instead of making sure that every player uses the weapon that should gain most xp (which would be the least effective / most under-ranked one).

Edited December 12, 2013 by Gekker

[(PSN)Gruntbull]

You get those skill points for others in your team killing... this is why NOVA ranks slower weapons than those in the party (because she got 100% ability affinity, and the rest of the team got a 4  way split...) I like this, and notice you get XP without actually killing, but by merely using a weapon.

[Karitori]

So from what I'm understanding is that now instead of using my trusted Primary to rank up my melee/secondary passively, I'll have to use that crappy secondary/melee weapon in order to level it. Well that's just fantastic. This means that for example Kappa will go 2-5 times slower because people are only going to use their inferior weapons because they are forced to by You. Don't tell us how to play your game. This just further proves that DE doesn't play their own game. Oh boy those are dark times indeed. And if you think this will resolve leeching problem it will only be worse if this goes live.

[DeiExMachina]

Great, I'm encouraged to use my S#&$ty unranked weapon once and then afk. It's not like I'll be contributing anyway since killing things reduces my exp gained.

[thatsleepyguy]

To all of the idiots that like or defend this

 

At this point DE is flat-out encouraging players to be useless by scoring 1 or 2 kills stolen from other teammate with unranked junk.

 

This is the kind of game you want? Where nobody does anything but run around with unranked skanas?

[Da_Big_D__]

Like many veterans, I am absolutely perturbed that you would even consider implementing a system like this given the sheer volume of weapons that can only be described as "garbage" (especially in the melee category) that exist solely to be crafted and leveled for Mastery points, since DE has made no effort whatsoever to balance them with respect to more recent released weapons and significant changes to the core mechanics underlying Warframe's gameplay - assuming that they were balanced and useful in the first place, which for a great many weapons was simply not the case.

 

Another problem is that if you’re trying to rank up a specific weapon and the other weapons in your load-out are rank 30 the cut of the shared XP going to the rank 30 weapons is wasted.

If your Warframe is already rank 30 the share is wasted as it was before.

 

So what is the reason that drives the distinction between affinity wasted on weapons (which apparently needs fixing) and affinity wasted on Warframes (which apparently is fine as-is)?

 

This seems impossibly arbitrary and utterly nonsensical.

 

The allocation means that if you don’t make any kills with a weapon it won’t get any XP from your team-mates.

 

How is affinity to be apportioned under the new regime if I make exactly zero kills? (For example, playing a Nekros at the efficiency cap, it is quite possible to sit in a mission constantly casting Desecrate, providing the valuable service to your teammates of multiple loot rolls on most or all enemies killed, but without scoring any kills yourself.)

Edited December 12, 2013 by Da_Big_D__

[Retrikaethan]

Kill-XP earned by team-mates close to you is currently applied to your gear uniformly: 25% of the total would be given to your Warframe, primary, secondary and melee weapons (ignoring sentinels for simplicity).

-snip-

im curious, have you guys at DE encountered "hallway heroes"? they're basically people that run off and away from the objective (in either defense) to kill things for experience on their own; usually far enough away that the people at the objective wont get that experience without also leaving it. if you have, have you considered any kind of solution for people doing that? (it is not an infrequent occurrence)

[bones7056]

If your Warframe is already rank 30 the share is wasted as it was before.

 

So the one thing i wanted fixed is the only thing staying the same...

[Althix]

well. Math don't lie right? your idea is good one.

 

But i think you are not taking into consideration human factor, so called "unique playstyle" of a player. Like when given player is running outside affinity range, killing mobs alone, ruining spawns and in general acting like dumbass. This is gonna be a problem, because common sense is so rare, so it's a super power these nights. And your new affinity gain system is enforcing cooperation. because it is profitable for each and everyone.

 

Another thing, basically you are forcing us to level one weapon at the time. Dunno. Maybe it is a good call.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Althix

[N7Arthur]

Team XP should stay the same, if it is lowered, then the game will become unplayable IMHO, the self one is ok, it will encourage you to use a weapon you want to lvl up more. But if team XP is lowered in any way, so many people will get hate for using ultimates, and all the people that support Novas for the XP they gain, will start a flame war. Just don't tamper with the team XP, nobody like leveling up the horrible melee weapons like daggers.

 

Edit: Here is a simple solution I put on page 6 

 

How about this, instead of this mess make ALL kills have a 25% split between frame, primary, pistol and melee, and whatever gets the kill gets an extra 50% bonus XP to it. So get a kill with a frame, XP is 75% Frame, 25% Primary, 25% Secondary, 25% Melee. Lets say an enemy gives 100 XP, if you get a kill with your Soma, soma gets 75 XP, then Secondary, Melee and Frame get 25 XP EACH (150 in total). If a teammate gets a kill, the standard split we have now. This would reduce the grind by such a substantial amount, and everyone would be encouraged to kill fast and kill many, instead of sitting around and doing nothing.

Edited December 12, 2013 by N7Arthur

[[DE]Glen]

Great, I'm encouraged to use my shitty unranked weapon once and then afk. It's not like I'll be contributing anyway since killing things reduces my exp gained.

 

Sorry, but you haven't got shared XP while AFK for a long time.

[General_Krull]

Sorry, but you haven't got shared XP while AFK for a long time.

I think you think he means literally AFK, what he means is staying next to terminal as vauban tossing bastille. Basically doing anything but killing.

[kevbob]

Although you might think this will make ranking up fresh gear slower (because you have to actually use the weapon to do it) the opposite is more likely to be true: if you use a weapon exclusively it should earn shared XP three times faster than it did before since none of the shared XP is being wasted on your max-ranked gear.

 

First and fore-most, thank you for looking at and tweaking the XP mechanic.  I look forward to seeing how this fleshes out.

 

Inre the sentinel XP change from last night:

Prior to U11, i had Shade, DethCube, Carrier, and whats-it leveled to 30, but not the clan/infested suicide-blob.

 

Post U11 i forma'd/relevelled my Carrier (once or twice, i forget).  Pretty sure i did a lot of kappa and kiste, as post-U11 i was working finishing off primary and secondary levelling.

 

I distinctly remember how seemingly slow my Carrier was levelling up, and tweaking the mod load-out solely for it to use its abilities more often and kill less in an attempt to get it to level faster.

 

Last night, post-patch, i was using my brand-new clan/infested suicide-blob, and was definitely NOT "powerleveling" as i ran just a couple of ODD waves before doing 10 or so of the new missions.

 

The sentinel got to level 15, iirc, in the blink of an eye.

 

So sentinel levelling has DEFINITELy and noticeably been changed for the, imo, better.

 

 

As for the weapon XP changes, I am ambivilant.  I think from a "new player" stand point, the changes are fundementally in the correct direction.

 

Use of the actual weapon should reward the player, in this case with XP.

 

And i think that from a "new player" standpoint, the system will make much more sense, and i don't see it being common for someone who was NOT used to the old system to think the old system made any more sense.

 

However, AS a player who has put 400-odd hours into the old system and am master 13.5, with 1 secondary and 2 primaries left to level.... I have, what feels to me, a S#&$-tonne of crappy, S#&$ty, idgaf-about melees i now do NOT look forward to _grinding_ through.  Again, from a mechanical standpoint the proposed/new system _makes sense_.  but from my gut, i dread it.  also, i'm certain that many players love their melee weapons.  i am simply not one of those players, so clearly take my feedback with a grain of salt.

 

From my perspective of YESTERDAY's XP mechanics, what i "looked forward to" inre powerlevelling these 10-20 melee weapons was mounting up to kiste or some survivals where i might grab a handful of neurodes or cells, equipping my forma'd and crowd melting primary and secondaries, tucking a melee under my arm, and hoping to find kiste (or wherever) full of novas or spammy mags.

 

how many kills did i anticipate with my melee?  zero.

how many from guns?  300-400

how many did i hope from my teamates? 300-400

 

so i waste 300-400 puke-faced grineer scumbags for XP on fully leveled guns and frame, to REWARD my compatriots with that XP, all the while i expect them to be doing the same thing back for me.  I doubt that mag spamming pull needs any XP on her frame, but my ceramic dagger (lol, seriously, just... lol) gets her XP, and her Miter (lol again) and her Ak-Lato (...) and etc get MY xp.

 

it would hopefully have been a symbiotic experience.

 

generally, about 1 in 4 missions worked out that way, the other 3 were full of people running off on their own, or *@##$ing about how that "nova stealing all kills OP need nerf!", completely unaware of how the XP mechanic works nor what kiste was all about.

 

OK.  looking at that scenario, a scenario that played out for months and months, it CLEARLY needs to be over-hauled.  again, thank you for doing so.

 

However,

what are my options, and my soon to be mission-mate's, now?

 

I have 20odd more "ceramic daggers" i want to level up.  I have multi-forma'd guns of nuclear death ready to spread XP to my team mates.

 

But, how is it going to play out?

 

I'm going to kiste, and using my level 4 "ceramic dagger" and killing 5? grineer?  so, i give what to my team mates?  not much.  not much at all.

 

and what are they going to give _me_ in return?  500 kills from m-prime/pull/whatever worth of XP?  not anymore.  because they _have_ to use that miter (or whatever) now.

 

So now we are going to be players, using underleveled (probably underpowered) weapons, trying to grind them up, frustrated, and i dunno.

 

I just dunno how it's going to play out.

 

I'll give it a try, and i'll see what happens, but i just don't expect this to work very well for me or my situation.

 

Still hopeful, though.

[Duralumin]

Now, before doing this. It'd be nice if you actually made it so people want to use all of their weapons, rather than forcing players to use awful weapons so that they can gain mastery.

 

Reading this thread has made me start building my Skana because I threw it away before maxing it because it was awful to use, I want to max it before this system goes live. I feel this way about every (and I am not exaggerating) melee weapon apart from the Galatine, which only barely scrapes by into the region of "meh".

 

Buff weapons before you force players into doing tedious grinding with them. Make them worth using.

 

This is not exclusive to melee weapons, however. Do you perchance have a log of the percentage of weapon use across your players, or how about a "what weapons have been dealing the biggest share of damage" chart? If so, buff everything that isn't in the top 20% and make it worth using.

 

The Grakata, Lanka and Bolto/Boltor buffs this patch were a step in the right direction. Keep doing things like that.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Duralumin

[-Mr.Meeseeks-]

Great, now to get more mastery I'm gonna have to actually use the crappy weapons... Come on the Pokemon series has been doing it since it's inception, you could level up your weaker Pokemon without even using them by switching them out at the beginning of the battle. They never saw fit to get rid of that system.

 

Oh well. Hopefully nothing I want in the future requires higher than mastery rank 9. I'd really hate to actually have to use weapons like the Bronco. *Shivers*