Proportionate Shared Xp

[Poke007]

Hold on, I just want to clarify that I have this correct:

 

If I go into a mission and I kill one thing with (example) my skana.

 

Therefore 100% of my kills were made with a skana

 

Therefore 75% of all of my shared XP gain of the squad in that mission goes to the skana, with default 25% taken off the top for my frame ?

 

Yup, that's how it is supposed to work in the new system.

[Psychosist]

Put effort in every useless melee in this game. I mean, before your teammates kill everyone, when you trying to finish someone.

Then the issue is not with the EXP system, but with the Melee system. You don't even know what you're complaining about.

[Nohra]

How's that any different than it is now? You can contribute nothing and get XP either way.

I can shoot things with my Strun Wraith while my squadmates level my Sicarus for me.

 

Your proposed change means I'd have to plink at things uselessly with my Sicarus, or just faff about while waiting for everyone else to complete the mission for me.

[Egg_Chen]

Anyone at DE thought of the inevitable side effect?

Players only using their most ineffective weapon so that all shared XP goes towards it.

 

Welcome to Kiste, where instead of spawn campers we now get people using only their Ceramic Dagger and killing nothing.

 

Dear oh dear, I understand the need/desire for a change, but DE you need to play this game online with PUGS yourselves to see where this will end up.

... and play online on an alt account, I guarantee you will not see normal behaviour with a [DE] in front of your name.

 

Edit: Posted before reading the whole thread, looks like players have thought of this already, but I suppose my question stands, anyone at DE thought of this?

 

Guys no offence, but perhaps use the Council more, ask them what they think about proposed changes before you throw them out there.

This is a pretty bad idea really, more leechers contributing less, how can it end up any other way?

Edited December 12, 2013 by Egg_Chen

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Eh... not happy about this change tbh, I have quite a few melee weapons that are awful (i.e. almost any longsword or dagger) because they're so bloody weak, and it's a chore to try and kill enemies.

 

However, as long as the weapon I use gets EXP for dealing damage (i.e. if I try to get kills with my melee only, but never land a killing blow, it still gains exp), I think it'll still be a change for the better WORSE (see edit)

 

edit: Didn't think about the fact that everyone on your team would be doing this too, which more or less forces everyone back into the newbie experience of leveling everything on mercury until the weapon MIGHT be ok enough to take on a decent exp farm mission.

Edited December 12, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[letir]

Then the issue is not with the EXP system, but with the Melee system. You don't even know what you're complaining about.

You wanna going on Mercury for every weapon in this game?

 

EVERY. FREAKING. NON-RANKED.WEAPON.

[Cinematic_30FPS]

How's that any different than it is now? You can contribute nothing and get XP either way.

 

The difference is that the current system does not encourage people to contribute nothing.

 

The proposed system not only encourages leeching, but in fact makes it the most efficient way to level up weapons. Why should I waste my time running low level mission after mission, when I can just join a high level mission, get 1 kill, and then have my team do the rest of the work? Not only do I get more XP, but I also get better mission rewards.

[Duralumin]

So imagine getting a group of randoms on Kappa all trying to rank up their melee weapons by chance and noone wants to use anything else in order to maximize XP gain.

 

So what do you do in this situation?

I continue playing and say "thanks DE" with every patch note, no matter how minor. :^)

 

 

Then the issue is not with the EXP system, but with the Melee system. You don't even know what you're complaining about.

The issue is that the game is oversaturated with awful weapons.

Melee as a whole is absolutely awful, but the issue is not exclusive to melee. There are a large number of sidearms and primary weapons that are simply not worth using.

And by "not worth using", I mean that they won't give you useful results.

Sure, there are weapons that you can use to mess about, like the Twin Vipers (BBBBBRRRRRRRTTT), but at the end of the day they're still useless and you wouldn't take them on a mission where you actually wanted to get things done (unless you wanted to handicap yourself).

You clearly have no idea what the issue is. As many insightful people in this thread have said, people will just end up using one of the many awful weapons all the time in an attempt to level them up.

 

Also the "tiers" system is a load of garbage. Please don't use it to justify not buffing weapons.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Duralumin

[ParrotParrot]

So to rank weapons you HAVE to use them, regardless of the amount of XP earned. This forces player to

 

A) Kill an enemy with the weapon they want to rank and then do jack S#&$ for the remainder of the map

 

B) Keep using the underranked weapon, still contributing jack S#&$ for the remainder of the map

 

C) Kill an enemy with the weapon they want to rank and then POWER SPAM

 

These all seem to be way worse than

 

D) Just finish the damn map and be done with it

[Iceyspy]

Umm no.This is not the way to go about this, DE.You see, when unranked weapons are so incredibly S#&$ty and rarely do they ever actually KILL anything, implementing a system like this would only ruin xp farming altogether.How about this; instead of the massive ammount of exp that is wasted after you complete the mission on your rank 30 gear, it just transfers to whatever items still need to be levelled.Think it over, as your current implementation will ruin the game.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

Your proposed change means I'd have to plink at things uselessly

 

That's the point, I think. The new system discourages you to level weapons in areas of the solar system that its not fit for yet. Those powerlevel hotspots are mostly in high level areas because the xp gain per enemy is greater. That's why everyone always went there. The system seems to want to discourage that and encourage playing on nodes that are more appropriate for the gear you're leveling. The weapon usage/shared xp funneling mechanic not taking into account, does it make things level slower than before? No doubt. Is it a justified change to curb power leveling? Yeah.

 

Now the game is ready for that affinity amp aura.

[bones7056]

yes it does make logical sense to do this. use sword to level up sword, yes but since when has this game been about logical things? really think about that and let it settle in.

 

Ok so you know its never been like that. This will just do nothing but hurt the game play and kill a lot of fun at the same time.

 

Unless of course DE's new direction of the whole game is logical sense and then ill come back in 6 months and it will be the next halo/COD 

 

this is already GrindFrame and now you want to make it realistic grindframe.

 

Honestly, having a hard time trying to believe that this is DE's real motive to this. just seems like that want people to buy boosters and/or prime access. through very corrupt ways. 

 

Usually they pick a side to reinforce, vets or new players, i cant see this helping either in anyway.

 

DE listen to your players for once, they are the ones who keep the lights on, and this may just tick to many off at once. especially lately.

[Psychosist]

You wanna going on Mercury for every weapon in this game?

EVERY. FREAKING. NON-RANKED.WEAPON.

That's how it should be. No one should be grinding T3s with half S#&$ gear as they are now. It's just logical, albeit harder to level. Buff exp rates, buff melee to make this system fit. Edited December 12, 2013 by Psychosist

[afmos]

Most people who aren't totally leaching will take 1 or 2 good weapons and 1 or 2 crap weapons to have teammates level up. Using the good weapon one can contribute to the team, and they contribute to you by leveling your crap weapon.

 

Let's take melee weapons. If new proposal means that if I don't kill anything with a melee weapon, I get 0 shared experience to that melee weapon. This new system is crap.

 

I certainly understand the logic of the how can you gain experience with a weapon you haven't used argument. From a fun game play mechanic, this sucks. Furthermore, logic has long since been abandoned in this game. I realized this as soon as I saw corrosive damage doing less damage to flesh than iron. I'm pretty sure some acid would dissolve my hand a lot faster than it does some chunk of steel.

Edited December 12, 2013 by afmos

[Gekker]

To all of the idiots that like or defend this

 

At this point DE is flat-out encouraging players to be useless by scoring 1 or 2 kills stolen from other teammate with unranked junk.

 

This is the kind of game you want? Where nobody does anything but run around with unranked skanas?

I agree with you but its not a problem that will be introduced with the new XP system. Its something thats already in the game with the current system.

 

Think about it.

You are at no point encouraged to kill huge groups of enemies with you maxed warframes abilities. Nor are you encouraged to use your level 30 primary weapon while you have a level 10 secondary weapon equipped.

 

To be honest. You are always encouraged to leech XP through your team-mates. The in this thread mentioned changes to not change that at all.

 

 

So far I think it is an improvement but for the reason you stated it does not adress the main problem with the XP system.

[spacedkadet]

 

Clarification 2: if you haven't gotten any kills yet the shared XP works exactly as it did before (ie: even split between all three weapons).

 

Yay everyone running around not wanting to get kills so they can rank all their things up:

 

Seriously this does not seam thought through.

Edited December 12, 2013 by spacedkadet

[LukeAura]

More has to go in to the thought on this idea. 
I can swing an unranked sword several times at certain enemies without killing them. But without the kill all that practice will effectively mean nothing. 

Perhaps it would be better to have the percentage based on damage dealt by the weapon divided by the damage of the weapon, and then that statistic is counted for each weapon and totalled up. That way there is a better idea of how often the weapon is actually used to combat enemies. 

For example, I am facing an enemy with 1450 health. 
I swing a sword nine times that deals 50 damage per hit, it doesn't kill the enemy, but it does reduce his health to 1000.
I swing my other sword once that deals 1000 damage per hit, it kills him because of his prior damage from my weaker weapon. 
My idea would suggest that the sword I swung once would give me a statistic of 1000/1000 = 1. and the 9 times swung sword would give me 450/50 = 9.
Totaled together I have 9+1=10 as my divisor for the percentage of useage. The sword I used most was the weaker one, with 9 swings. 9/10 is 90%. Therefore, 90% of my bonus goes to the weaker weapon. 
The sword I swung most, despite it dealing less damage and netting less kills, is the sword that gets leveled more in bonus experience. 

Peoples thoughts? 
 
 
 

Edited December 12, 2013 by LukeAura

[letir]

That's how it should be. No one should be grinding T3s with half S#&$ gear as they are now. It's just logical, albeit harder to level. Buff exp rates, buff melded to make this system fit.

I will go on T3 with crappy gear and do 1 kill. Do ther rest, idiot, i wanna level up.

[ParrotParrot]

That's the point, I think. The new system discourages you to level weapons in areas of the solar system that its not fit for yet. Those powerlevel hotspots are mostly in high level areas because the xp gain per enemy is greater. That's why everyone always went there. The system seems to want to discourage that and encourage playing on nodes that are more appropriate for the gear you're leveling. The weapon usage/shared xp funneling mechanic not taking into account, does it make things level slower than before? No doubt. Is it a justified change to curb power leveling? Yeah.

 

Now the game is ready for that affinity amp aura.

But running Earth node 8 times is still less desiderable than getting one kill with your peashooter on Sedna and then finish the map powerspamming your way to extraction

Or just letting the sentinel do your job

 

Overall you don't want to farm XP in lower areas EVER. There is NOT a single system that would make it desiderable short of NOT GIVING XP in areas where the weapon is too low ranked to kill a single enemy. Beats speedrunning each boss/capture node 10 times still.

[Gestalt]

You're truly treading on mighty thin ice here DE (*Joel voice*).  So let's break it down slowly and in an orderly manner.

 

You're trying to prolong the life of the game by making leveling newly-obtained weapons (specifically useless single-target melee weapons) slow.  This flies in the (mind you, officially advertised) face of the game: to have action-packed, fast-paced fun owning the faces of, well, faceless armies as equally faceless, albeit much more powerful and awesome cyborg ninjas. 

 

As it is CURRENTLY, item "progression" in this game consists of me bringing a powerful/maxed out frame and maybe a single maxed out weapon on a mission, while also bringing along two weapons I'm trying to level.  

 

In solo, the gameplay would be me trying desperately to kill enemies that I could normally grind to dust with the bat of an eye, using the incredibly WEAK weapons I'm trying to level, all the while running away from said enemies in MORTAL FEAR of them getting too close to me as to have them accidentally 1-shotted by my sentinel (whose weapon I carefully modded to be a great asset during combat; I know, the irony), and eventually being overwhelmed by the enemy and going "ah, eff it" and proceeding to press '4' or bring out the maxed weapon to clear out the entire room in a matter of seconds.

 

In co-op, things start out much the same, with me trying to kill using the weapons being leveled, with the only difference being EVERYTHING that happens after the 15-second mark: me immediately giving up and switch to the maxed weapon, because I'd literally be getting NO KILLS and contributing sub-1% of the damage of the team, because everything would be dead before I even get in a shot/slash.

 

This is indeed an issue, yes?

 

So to remedy this whole mess, you're making it EVEN MORE IMPOSSIBRU to level new weapons?  Bravo! *claps*

 

Unless, of course, you want us to go back to mercury in solo to level new weapons.  Disable our sentinel weapons.  Refrain from using frame powers.  Because that's so action-packed and ninjay and FUN.

[DishSoap]

That's how it should be. No one should be grinding T3s with half S#&$ gear as they are now. It's just logical, albeit harder to level. Buff exp rates, buff melded to make this system fit.

You're everything that's wrong with this game.

[thatsleepyguy]

 Its something thats already in the game with the current system.

In the current system there's a sort of scratch-my-back-I'll-scratch-yours in regards to kills. You rack up kills with your own guns/abilities and give xp to my junk, and I can use my actually leveled gear to earn xp to level your junk. Many, many players would do this, and though the counts weren't always even we were all better for it having actually contributed to the mission.

 

In this proposed system that goes out the window. If you want to level something up, you are actually discouraged from using anything decent because that takes xp away from your useless gear.

It's just plain bad and I don't at all see how anyone thought it was a good idea.

[General_Krull]

That's how it should be. No one should be grinding T3s with half S#&$ gear as they are now. It's just logical, albeit harder to level. Buff exp rates, buff melee to make this system fit.

Do you really want to spend hours leveling a weapon you don't even like? I mean really?

[Histori]

 

With the change XP will be shared to your weapons dynamically: a fixed 25% will still go to your Warframe and the remaining 75% will be split between your primary, secondary and melee weapons according to the kill-XP you’ve earned with each in the current mission. The allocation means that if you don’t make any kills with a weapon it won’t get any XP from your team-mates.

 

OMG !

 

 

MORE GRIND YES, jiz

I really don't get it, you really want this game to become Grindrame.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Histori

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Do you really want to spend hours leveling a weapon you don't even like? I mean really?

(+1) Are you saying you didn't enjoy leveling the ceramic dagger, skana, or cronus? Are you saying you had more fun using other better weapons instead of crappy melee/sidearms/primaries? CRAZY! How can anyone not enjoy leveling all these amazing(ly bad) weapons!