Proportionate Shared Xp

[Xylia]

After doing some thinking about it.....

 

If it is a straight up % of how often a weapon is used then the new XP system could be OK, but I still wonder about leeching issues and how hard melee would be to actually level with it.

 

It is nice to be able to influence which weapons get how much XP, tho.

[General_Krull]

 

 

There are a few other categories, but that's the basics. It seems right now that the newer you are to the game, the better off you are.

This is not true. If you're new you lack essential mods. If you lack essential mods you can't complete planets or nodes easily meaning it's harder to farm for stuff to get better items. Also Beginner gear is horrible and from what I've heard Earth can't be completed right now.

[Valiant]

A lot (not all, but a lot) of what is being discussed here falls back to oft-mentioned problems with the melee system - the suggested shared XP change is drastically highlighting how unsatisfying/unviable many of our core players feel melee is.

I'm hoping you take note of how people are displeased that spare warframe lvl 30 exp will still go nowhere. Repeating myself here but it should be distributed to other weapons and/or converted into credits.

 

DE said some time ago they're aware of the grind in this game and they're trying to move away from it. Doing the above would definitely be an effective step in the right direction.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Naith

[Silvershadow66]

One problem with this is that you could take an unranked weapon on a mission and level it up many times without using it -- how can one master a sword that is never swung?

 

How can you master a weapon using xp from other people's kills with completely different weapons (which the new system still uses)? That makes no more sense than the current system. How the heck does someone 30 m away from me shooting an enemy get me extra xp on the Skana that I am swinging at the time?

 

This idea is one of the most ludicrous ones I have seen from DE.

 

If you "leech" a new weapon you are still running missions (in fact you are often running more missions) so this change won't make levelling that much faster. But what you are forcing people to do is do missions with weak weapons and with weapons they don't like using for the simple reason that its the only way to earn mastery. If you think levelling new weapons using shared xp is too easy just lower the amount for shared xp a bit.

 

DE, you need to take a long hard look at the concept of making people play missions with weapons they don't enjoy using. Its a very bad idea.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Silvershadow66

[AstorSigma]

There have always been issues with melee.

 

The first issue is simply that they don't do enough damage to be viable. If you have to get into melee range, then the weapon needs to "hit like a truck". Obviously not all weapons make sense to do obscene amounts of damage. This brings me to the second issue: No multi-hit. Many melee weapons can only hit 1 target which is just unacceptable and unrealistic. All weapons need to be able to hit an unlimited number of targets.

 

Another issue is that melee is currently split between regular and charge attacks. This seems unnecessary as it forces people to ignore some of the weapon's abilities that could be put to good use. An easy solution would be to remove the charge damage mods/change the charge damage bonus to damage bonus for the nightmare mods and then make normal damage mods affect charge damage as well. This wouid make the weapons far more versatile and fun to use. This brings me to the last issue, which I believe has been stated as being worked on.

 

The last issue is the repetitiveness of both regular and especially charge attacks. Having multiple strikes that can be combined in different orders would help spice this up but I realize that may be difficult with the limited control options. Even just multiple strike combos for charge attacks would help and even the suggestion I made above to remove charge damage mods would add variety to melee weapons by allowing players to alternate between regular and charge attacks at will.

Edited December 12, 2013 by AstorSigma

[bones7056]

@Signal warden

 

i normally avoid paragraphs but you just got it perfect man 

[Khranitel]

To break this apart, what you are doing is to improve experience of players in high level zones, which got players with low ranked gear leeching away xp and being pretty much useless - if they had everything low level. And here is where the problem starts. How will you kill something with low level weapon there? You pretty much dont, thats why you will use your warframe's abilities or (surprise) another weapon, because we have a technology of weapon swap.

The first question is - what are you doing with low-level everything in high-level mission? Why do you forcing your team to carry you because you want to leech?

Want to level low-level stuff? Go to Venus and level it there. When you're ready - go higher. I'm doing it that way since the start, because I have respect for the people whom I teamed with, so they shouldn't carry me.

Thumps up for this change. I'm just tired to do a high-level survival or defense, just to get teamed with some smartie who want only free xp and don't want to help the team. I hope that change will clear high-levels of such leechers.

 

The only problem in current system is the xp gain into fully ranked weapon/warframe and this change will only deepen this problem.

Another problem that we have is that you can level something up to lvl30 just by having that thing with you and never using it. This is simply not right. "How can one master a sword that is never swung?"

[Althix]

Glen to put it simple we know that you want to slow down leveling process, and we don't like it.

[kevbob]

 they're actively trying to make it worse as opposed to better. 

 

this is disingenuous at best.  just because something does not work as intended does not mean a solution to a problem was not tried.

 

rhetorical character assassination is not constructive feedback.

[Arlayn]

We need an assist kill system in Warframe now... This new system is going to hurt a lot. I don't see a lot of my weapons leveling up now...

[BETAOPTICS]

So to level up bad melee weapons you need to melee enemies. Great! But do you know what makes it even more great? Spawn campers killing nearly every enemy that the map spawns in defense missions. So now, their selfish playstyle is encouraged and rewarded while others are left to suck their own thumbs. Absolutely fantastic! Oh, I can already see how much I will be hating this new system. Everyone just struggling with their gear levels and abandoning the missions objectives in a very heavy grind based game just to get their gear levelled and the rest are left to suck it up. Sounds so great that I'm in tears. Literally but not because the system is good.

[Egg_Chen]

It is far easier / faster to shoot an enemy (and his three friends) than run up and stab him 30 times with a Ceramic Dagger until he dies of laughter.

 

Scale the XP thresholds down for melee, it will never be as viable as guns or frame skills, never.

Accept that, then balance the XP requirements to master a melee weapon to be much lower and we can all move on.

 

I'm talking at least half (if not even less) XP required to master a melee weapon.

It's not like we will run out of them too quick :)

[Brasten]

[DE]Glen:

"EDITS:

 

Clarification 1: if you Warframe or Weapon is Rank 30, the share assigned to it is wasted (just like before). Get new equipment or polarize you gear if you don't want it to go to waste!

 

Clarification 2: if you haven't gotten any kills yet the shared XP works exactly as it did before (ie: even split between all three weapons)."

The system has already failed before it begins. Clarification 1 means that this system hasn't fixed the standing issue of the Warframe getting a share of XP even if you don't use any powers on it at Max Rank. Clarification 2 means that the ideal relevel system is to still LEECH off other people, now even more than before because if you're trying to rank up 3 (primary, secondary, melee) items you are best off not killing or contributing anything to the fight.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Brasten

[LukeAura]

I've been thinking about this a lot since this was posted. 
And I've come up with an idea I hope people will read and give feedback on. 
The first part of my idea would be to make a usage statistic out of total damage dealt per weapon divided by base damage of the weapon, then totalled over all weapons to determine the bonus experience split. A weapon with low base damage that deals 500 damage gets more of the split than a weapon with high base damage and deals only 500 damage.
To go on Glen's idea of you can't master a sword you don't swing. 
You also can't master a sword you use to deal one blow to a near death foe. 
Kills mean very little. the sum of Total Damage/Base damage over all weapons is a much better indicator, even if not perfect. 

The second proponent that has been missed in Glen's change is that you need to give people a reason to play at a level range their weapon is suitable for. 
Introduce bonus experience for using weapons/frames at an appropriate level range.
I have a rank 1 weapon? I could bring it to Sedna and leech off of Kappa by doing almost nothing. 
OR I could bring it to a Mobile Defense in Venus and make up the difference fighting foes my weapon is levelled for and getting a bonus for doing so. 
And once I hit Sedna levels, I bring it to Sedna and get a little bit more on top of that.  
Say Uranus is where level 20+ weapons and frames should be leveled. 
1-10 is Venus and Mercury. 
Earth-Saturn is 10-20. 

This will encourage proper levelling tactics, and helps avoid leeching by making players feel like they can actually contribute while still effectively leveling weapons.  


 

[d1ru]

if the exp on weapons or frames that were maxed were redirected and split among the others, i would be fine with this. as it stands, i am not. Suffice to say that i am VERY glad i have played enough to get to mastery lvl 12, because most of the weapons i have had to level to get there, are crap. horrible dps is NOT proportionate to the time/exp invested in the event that it is hard to kill enemies with.

[Volux]

So what you're saying is, if we want to continue using the old system, we can? We just need to get 0 kills?

 

I don't know if I should trust you cause so far DE has just tried to make everything much harder to level and nerfed plenty of good weapons so that we have to level up worse ones. I hope you guys are ready for tonight on prime time when people are going to be pissed if you guys do another drastic change.

[Othergrunty]

Put what about the weapons that start incredible weak and only become somewhat usefull down the road, especialy melee weapons that you insist on keeping down with low damage and half hearted mechanics?

Are you really telling us we have to run mercury and venus over and over until they are good enough to go up on Earth? Do you really want to lock us in the early areas every time we want to level a new weapon?
 

Especialy while we have perfectly fine primaries or secondaries we could use in the higher areas where affinity is larger, while leaving our other weapon to level up along the way.

 

Making sense for the lore good and fine, but we are talking about gameplay here and that needs to be friendly for players especialy since the entire game boils down to a lot of grind most of the time.

 

Veterans like me allready have most of their favorit weapons leveled and got rid of those who were too useless to use by leveling them with the old method, but new players are going to have a harder time.

 

STOP THIS NOW! Don't even go there.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Othergrunty

[Khranitel]

How can you master a weapon using xp from other people's kills with completely different weapons (which the new system still uses)? That makes no more sense than the current system. How the heck does someone 30 m away from me shooting an enemy get me extra xp on the Skana that I am swinging at the time?

Ok. Lets remove shared XP - welcome, kill-stealing!

 

If you "leech" a new weapon you are still running missions (in fact you are often running more missions) so this change won't make levelling that much faster. But what you are forcing people to do is do missions with weak weapons and with weapons they don't like using for the simple reason that its the only way to earn mastery. If you think levelling new weapons using shared xp is too easy just lower the amount for shared xp a bit.

If you don't like to grind these weapons - just don't do it. Mastery level 6 is obtainable with 4-5 frames and about 20 weapons. If you can't find 20 weapons that you like from Warframe enormous arsenal - then... seems that you will get more fun with some other game.

[[DE]Rebecca]

This is no longer being deployed today.

 

Locking for now - this whole thread has opened up a can of discussion worms that bring up a lot of related issues that this change is exposing. There will likely come a better time to first adjust and then release changes to Shared XP.