Saving Warframe From The Inevitable End; The End Game

[HoloTheTricksterWolf]

This is a PvE Endgame suggestion thread. The topic is WAR. Do not suggest anything PvP related, it does not belong in this thread. If you disagree with any of these ideas, I can only now politely ask you to word it carefully and precise as to why not, and if you completely disagree, then I can only now politely ask you to leave.

Please, I ask that you read this carefully (meaning don't skim over it) before you post anything. It is A LOT to read, I know, but bare with me. If you don't want to read, then don't even bother with it. Sorry for those who find my writing pretentious and ardane, I would hate being a robot like the rest, giving some color to this text wall of jericho.

Please take in note that this is only my inquiry of the time I have spent over the last few weeks with Warframe at its current stage, and that all I say could be very well flawed to an extent of irreversible insanity. Or in otherwords, after playing this game a lot, I find it to lack a proper endgame and becomes repetitive, and that the endless defense missions are not a method to save the savvy of time and money spent for an endgame, or "Bringing it back from the dead".

My solution, as stated within the title, is an END GAME.

"Pray tell of such a solution" is what you may ask of me, and so I will.

The End Game:

This is the most vital part to what I'm about to begin to suggest. The End Game. Or in otherwords, the game mode that will make an endgame worthwhile and not seem so much as "repetitive and boring" as it would otherwise end up being. Warframe must stay alive! Even if I have to defibrillate it into conciousness every now and again.

Take in note that patch 7 is offering us a small version of the endgame. And that endgame in which they are introducing to us is an endless defense mission. Now, this is all well and good, but this is only ever well and good for a few hours. At most a day or two. What players want and what players need is for the RPG, Shooter, Hack and Slash Sci-fi Ninja game known as Warframe to have a well endowed endgame. Something that isn't a simple defense mission. Something that isn't the simple assassinate mission or the exterminate mission. What Warframe needs, in my opinion, is a reimagining.

There are a few Game modes that I will now state that deal with the key aspect of "End Game". I will later add how they will come to fruition, through the beginnings of progression, and the End Game itself.

We must all understand what an endgame is for me to begin to suggest this. To those not understanding of these words, an end-game is the point in a game where you reach after you've completed everything. The end-game is the point in a game that you work hard to reach for.

Few examples of this is League of Legends, as hard as that is to swallow in my throat. Their end-game is pretty much a more competitive version of their original game, RANKED MATCHES, where you level up until you're 30 and only then can you start to compete in ranked matches to get the highest number in the charts. Other games like World of Warcraft and other major mmorpgs thrive on a PvP competitive end-game, where you take all your shiny armor and weapons and skills to the battlefield to battle other people with shiny armor and weapons and skills, and see who has the better shiny armor and weapons and skills, and also to see who has the better trigger finger and character.

But Warframe isn't PvP. Warframe shouldn't be PvP. Warframe should NEVER be PvP. Warframe wouldn't survive a day being PvP.

So with this said, I endow to my audience of wonderful forum readers, especially it being a Warframe dev or Warframe syndicate, the suggestions that could very well bring to the salvation of Warframe as a whole.

My suggestion is this. Faction Wars. I've heard the rumors. Those that an open world map could perhaps be implemented one day. And with this thought, there came to me a wonderful idea. A solution. An ENDGAME. There isn't a lot of lore to base my ideas off of, but I work with what I have. What we do have right now is the beginnings of a faction war. Not a faction war like how a game like Planetside would have it, where players chose different factions and battle each other, but a lore faction war.

We all know the Infected, the Graneer, the Corpus, and especially the Tenno. We know what the Tenno and their Warframe suits can do. They can slaughter near an entire ship of enemies and escape to fight another day. They are superior in all sense of the words. Near unstoppable. They are ninjas, who take their fights slow, only ever taking on a small group of enemies and not an army. You can't stealth kill an entire army, especially during a war. But there IS a war between all these factions. And so far, their wars are waged on small battlefields.

Alert missions, as the devs had called them, where the beginnings of an organic planetary system, of Planets and asteroids, of the sun. Of the Sol system. Where things were happening in real-time, and where these missions had a part to play in the progression and the upkeeping of the sol system, to make players feel as though they were accomplishing something as Tenno, playing a part in the War they are fighting in such as the war the Tenno had once fought.

But all alert missions have accomplished was a big whole of nothing. Alert missions are something you simply skim over until you see a question mark in the rewards list, in which then you would either do it to save you the benefit of doubt, or head over to the forums and find it was another steel charge. This is not a good thing. There is no TRUE immersion to the game. There is no TRUE progression. And as far as I know, there won't be one anytime soon. But we can sure as damn get close to it. Maybe not now, but some day.

I mean, sure, Warframe is an rpg at heart, but in a game where it is much to easy to rank up things, the only goal in the game is to collect all the items and rank up all the items and obtain better mods for all the items. And when you have all of that, (which it should only take you a week or two to accomplish if you know how to do it right) it amounts to a whole lot of nothing in the end. Everything becomes repetitive.

How to fix: I stated Faction Wars. Using the previous rumor of "open world map", I will now make a large suggestion, and it starts now!

The current system at it's works are all well and done, and I do believe they shouldn't be taken out. This idea is completely outside the realm of Warframe's current stage, and it shouldn't obstruct much from the current gameplay at all. What I am proposing is an ENDGAME. The stage in which you'll find yourself at the completion of the current system. A system entirely of its own. This system is neither the same as the previous except more of it, like my example for Legue of Legends and the ranked game system, nor this system is the pvp version of the original, like the Warcraft example of the pvp system.

This idea originated from the current lore. Ya know the one "Tenno's are superb warriors from the Orokin age, being called to war again vs the Graneers (heavily reliant on numbers and brutality, them being a militarized race) who want to eradicate them, who own Earth simply because of their sheer numbers. War against the Corpus (heavy reliant on technology) who want to use the Orokin artifacts (who hold dangerous and untold potential) as a financial exploit. War against the infected who... well... want to destroy/converte everything. Their creation seemingly dating back to the Orokin age".

They are in Total War with each other. Some controlling specific worlds and asteroids. Now, I understand very well that making an world map seems ridiculous to what I'm about to suggest, so I'll inquire about it a little differently afterward. Make a unique map in an outdoor enviorment big enough to fit numerous players for every world. Maybe not as big as a planentside map, but enough to make it feel organically large... Sorta like a Tribes Ascend Map. Reasonably sized, intuitive. I will be referring to this game a lot, and I hope you take pointers from it too.

Now, making a unique map for every world and asteroid would sound like a big undertaking, since a game mode which would hold numerous, and I mean NUMEROUS amounts of people and npcs would mean having to have servers on the company's end of the deal. This isn't such a big deal either, because as far as I understand, the only server they're using is the one for the loggins and the main menu hud, for everything item related, stats, and the latter. As far as gameplay goes, it is up to the lead player to host games. There is even solo play that completely disconnects you. Which is great! This shouldn't be removed at all. This means that you could focus some servers for my suggestion!

The Simple Version for Beginners:

I suggest to start off with a Mercury instance of my suggestion, and seeing that after Open Beta, or even release date, if this game is still making it strong, you could add more and more of these types of modes going down the list by planets or difficulties.

Imagine, if a large landscape would just spread out around you as you're dropped from a carrier Tenno ship and you're atop a hill looking out towards the plains/hills/mountains/raveens/craters/ forests/canyons, and what you see, litered across the face of the planet are legions of Corpus walkers, moas, and some 3-4 Jackal/heyna protocols like Behemoths between the crowds of smaller Corpus units. Nearby the legions of the Corpus are several of your fellow Tenno going into an epic battle, seeing shockwave moas send out shocks from afar, seeing a Frost use Avalanches and Embers using Fire blasts, Nyx using Chaos and having two large groups of Corpus fight each other. Then you look behind you, and there are even more able-bodied Tenno like yourself ready to scale down the hill and join the fight for galactic control. Fights spanning hours, even days.

Now, this method eliminates a few things:

1. It eliminates the endgame problem. All you worked for, ranking up guns and warframes, finding mods/artifacts to specially create a character, all of it coming down to this moment. The moment where you can join your fellow Tenno in the WAR you are supposed to be fighiting in. It doesn't seem like a real war if you don't have such scenarioes. Being a Space Ninja is all well and good, but it is never officially stated that Tenno are space ninjas. "They are masters of gun and blade, using superior suits to aid them in battle." Sure, the devs would want you to feel like a space ninja, as stated by them in a Q&A once "Have that sense that one man can take down an entire ship", but one man can't do everything for long, that isn't how you win wars.

2. It get's rid of many situational Warframe Skills that wouldn't otherwise be used. Take for example Mag's skills. Bullet attractor would be a lot more useful if you use it in on a Graneer heavy who is in front of an entire legion of heavies and allows for a quick get away before the bullets start flying into the Graneer and quickly take him down that would've otherwise been another problem for you and your fellow Tenno. Pull becomes a lot more useful if someone dies midst a legion of enemies, pulling either the enemies or your friend so you can safely rez him. Another example would be Trinity. There would be more large health enemies to use Energy and Health Vampirism skills on, and the more energy one would instantly be useful, as your partners and you could use more of that energy to combat the legions. Link being phenomenal for a short period. Single target skills would need to be enhanced though.

3. Takes away repetiveness. The endgame, at it's current stage, is a constant grind and repetitive gameplay. The new defense game type does NOT make it any better. It is pretty much a defense version of CoD zombies. Waves until you die. It'll be interesting for a while, but ultimately flop in the end. It's something you add to one time use shooters to lengthen their lifetime until a new one comes out the next year. Warframe is no retail shooter. Warframe is a living, breathing creature that NEEDS to stay alive, sure its f2p, but it has microtransactions, and those are pretty useless unless you have a reason to buy something right off the bat instead of needing to grind for it. But for those who don't have the money and are constantly grinding for items, it gets boring to no end. I can testify, I got all Warframes through bps. Sure I rushed the parts, but that's cuz I had money to spend. Sure, an endless war sounds repetitive, but in the advanced version for pros I will add how this will later sound like the intensive war it should be.

4. It adds the well-deserved middleman. I say well-deserved, because there is always two sides in looking to what an endgame should be. All ending in some sort of PvP aspect. It doesn't have to be that way. We can still keep it PvE and be intensively fun, just listen for a little longer!

5. It let's you have lore for the previous system, and contextual lore for Faction Wars. What I mean by this is, I think that the current system we have should be a sort of lore build up to the this end-game system. A storyline in which it will INITIATE your Warframe to be prepared for the real War. All those defense missions and assassinate missions and exterminate missions just a means to surpress the real war into having a possible War, as I can see legions upon legions of the other three factions, and only select few Tenno, the Tenno having the upper hand because of the Warframe suits, but the disadvantage in numbers. A sort of explanation as to why the Graneers aren't just sending their entire fleets to take you over, but still sending many many of their numbers to fight you. Contextual lore is just what I mean by "Faction Wars".

And those are my five reasons for having this end-game system. But I'm not done. I need to explain how it works!

The Advanced Version: For Pros

How it works:

1.) As I mentioned, a largeish map to hold many npcs and players. Maybe make a very large server that could potentially hold hundreds of players at once, even a thousand, (but keep reading, for not that many players will fill up the server at once due to what I will say later) and even more NPCs to combat them.

2.) Enemy waves/hordes. Enemies will sometimes be in formation, a sort of legion war party, like a napoleonic march, and sometimes will be broken off formation, to be sent out in waves. This takes off the advantage that universal ult Warframes will have. Having large enviorments and having a lot of enemies scatered about will surpress the efficiency of universal ult Warframes as opposed to those that carry on without.

3.) Environmental setting should take a big role. Be it a big plain spreading for miles, a forest with heavy overgrowth, a mountainous area with bolders encompassing the area, canyons and craters, perhaps even human settlements mixed in with these terrain types (destroyed by the war or even intact). Fight with industrialized areas even. Like fighting on a ruined Earth. This is a big big thing. This should even be a big feature in combat.

For example, fighting on Pluto. It's cold so your shields are halved, there is little gravity so you jump higher and there isn't much on the surface, just craters and perhaps a few settlements, since it doesn't make for a good war spot.

Or another example would be like fighting on Jupiter. The gravity is extremely strong, there is a constant storm so it makes it difficult to see medium and long distances, the storm is constantly brewing and there could potentially be health hazards as the storm gets too strong for your suit to handle and makes you take shelter within settlements where you'll have to stand your ground against oncoming legions who are also seeking refuge.

4.) Even this end-game should have a specific game-mode. Unique to the planet. Like having some asteroids be mining facilities, the objective would be to take over the mining facilities sprawled across the land and hold them while taking hits from all side, eventually getting harder as the Tenno capture more and more. Capturing would require the extermination of all the opposing faction's units within the area of control, and this becomes harder in the sense that more Tenno will have to focus the last remaining ones, as the forces are stronger there as some retreated and making it HQs, and that maybe even have some of them flank some of the captured points, randomly taking a capture point while everyone is fighitng in the front lines.

Another game mode could be Total War aspect and simply eliminating an HQ as opposed to capturing points. This being much more difficult of course, since no other objectives exist. There are many more to base it off of, each can be dealt with the same open-world long battle kind of aspect. Each giving you a sense of War. Making you feel part of it in the continued efforts to substain galactic control.

5.) Some people might argue that their are Warframes not catered towards that kind of open-world play. Like Loki and Ash. And I whole-heartedly agree. Which is why we're taking a look at some of Tribes Ascend gameplay. Within the game, all sorts of things like Cashes to switch out weapons and characters are accessed via the use of energy/electricity. There are generators that keep them running. If someone is to sabotage these generators, the opposing team is forced to retreat back to the spawn point where only the few access points are available, or have to take over the generators again. These generators are held within buildings, tight corridors, few protectors, standardesc game mode in which you see Warframe be in the stages we have now as of update 6.

This is a good thing. It allows stealth warframes like Ash and Loki to have a fair game along with the rest of the lot. I was thinking, a way to change alert missions to feel more organic was if maybe they would tie into the endgame wars. For example, since most alert missions are done within a ship, have a set time limit before the alert mission goes off DURING and ONLY within the endgame system and endgame matches, that way, it'll give Ash and Loki and any new stealth Warframe later to be added a bigger role rather than just sabotaging. And if there aren't any Ash's and Loki's, even a volt could do it. How they'd do it is that the Warframe in question would approach a pick-up zone in the Tenno base and they'd be transported to the ship with the alert mission. The alert mission is anything really.

The consequences for no one taking up the alert mission will be tide-changing, even drastic sometimes. For several minutes, the ship could turn fire into the surface to target the Tenno which will then send giant beams that one-shot the Tenno (unlimited revives exists in this endgame), or another consequence would be an even large number of reinforcements. Some of the alert missions like changing the ship's trajectory to aim the allied units graneer/corpus instead, or blow up a ship entirely, or exterminate everyone aboard so reinforcements don't arive, etc etc. This gives meaning to alert missions.

As for question mark blueprints, I earnestly believe they should be drops from bosses. Not like the Chronus bp, but a blueprint that drops to select players. In one round with four people, one might get it, two might get it, or none. Simply, random for all. This adds a way to obtain the rarer weapons without having to wait for those specified alert missions. When will a dark sword ever appear again I wonder? With enough patience and luck, maybe in a few hours of grinding Venus boss? Please. This is a much better system. I assure you. Make the drops extra scarce so it will condone the use of Platinum. For things like the helmets, not the weapons.

The alert missions can even be specialized missions within the boundaries of the endgame map instead of having to go an a ship, like having to assassinate a boss to stop him from calling in troops. That sorta thing.

6.) The Factions matter. I want to see a unique endgame map for every world because there are several factions, and there is a particular way I want the endgame maps to work.

I'll give an example. Once Mercury is completed, you will be able to join the Endgame war for the control of Mercury. The level requirement is a rank of 5 on any Warframe and a level 1 on your INITIATE level. Weapons don't matter much. This allows you to do the End-game map for mercury much sooner than you would the endgame war for say... Eris.

You would have to complete Eris, have a max ranked Warframe, and be a level say... 7-10 on your Initiate to join the endgame war on Eris. The difficulties between Mercury endgame and Eris endgame are associated appropriately. So that way, a rank 5 warframe that wouldn't do very well in an Eris endgame would be restricted of it so it won't be a waste of a player slot in the server capacity.

This said, I want each world to have one because there are 3 different factions that we currently have. There should be multiple faction endgames, each with a difficulty setting of low, medium, and high. That way you can fight low graneer, low Corpus, and low infected, as opposed to only being able to fight low graneer, medium corpus, and high infected. Verstility is a major point in this, and I hope this isn't overlooked. People don't want to have to change play-styles and Warframes simply because they need to adapt to a certain endgame. Fire for the infected, electricity for the corpus, etc.

But I'm getting much to far ahead of myself. Let me continue on my inquiry.

7.) Loot. This is a big question. I honestly believe that loot and experience should work the same way as they would a normal match, except it stacks until you leave or the match ends (which as I said before, could take a while). This takes away a large part of what grinding would be. Instead of having to redo instances over and over, or defense missions for mods, like doing oro on Earth for rubedo, we could just take part in an endgame and obtain those parts as we slaughter the legions of foes for countless of hours. At the end of a game, one might have a million xp by the end of it! Pages of artifacts/mods or whatever, and large amounts of rubedo.

8.) How to make a game last longer. This is also a big question, as npcs aren't very smart especially if it came down to dealing with a ton of Tenno. Global ultimates could eliminate the smaller fry instantly, rending hordes of enemies to nothing but the last few remaining heavies to be shot down. I said before for having some instances for them to be spread out, but this is not the only thing that will stop them from being annihalted. There could be 50 frosts and thousands of avalanches. No. The way to deal with this problem comes from calculation.

I thought about this one a little harder than my previous ideas. And I'm sure I got the solution. I propose that the solution lies therein the server capacity and the rate in which enemies are being killed. These are the two factors when it comes to game length. We want matches to last a LONG time. Make it seem we're in a real war. Even if it is sci-fiy to the core.

How this works is simple. The more Tenno within a match, the harder and more numerous the oncoming enemies are. If there was a way to calculate the rate in which the enemies were being killed (To avoid the overuse of powerful global ults) then add that to the mix too in the variables that will add on how many of what should be coming forward to fight. I remember running a mercury sabotage mission with only heavy graneers. It was extremely scary, all I could do was simply run from a to b as fast as possible. I want the same thing to happen here. Where the easier it is to kill the small fry, the harder it will be on the long run.

This adds a balancing factor. If any of the factors are broken, the tides turn. Like say the previous alert mission suggestion, if the ship wiped out an entire batallion of heavies, the Tenno would then have an easier time overtaking a point. Or say a lot of people start leaving the match because of curfews or work or because it's late, then the Tenno start to lose numbers, and the previous numbers still exist. So say there were 50 heavies and 15 Tennos. 7 Tennos leave and there are still 50 heavies.

This will be important to note, the tide changing decisions and happenings. This will be VERY important.

9.) Advantages, disadvantages, and rewards. The factor that should keep players playing.

It is important to note that these endgame wars are due to the ideal of "GALACTIC CONTROL". Remember this. Like in Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer, the more you completed a mission, the more galactic control would be placed upon the certain area as you fought the reapers.

I believe that it should work almost the same way. But there are a few things that make it drastically different from the galactic control of Mass Effect. Unlike in Mass Effect where you would obtain more galactic control over an area depending on whether you lost or won (vise-versa being for losing) and would server no real purpose, here you will obtain a Galactic control rating for planets/asteroids instead. The idea of the Graneer overtaking Earth made this entire idea possible. What if the Tenno could overtake it?

But this isn't an "Everyone" thing, as the benefits would go to everyone depending on how many matches won and lost by the players, which would give unfair advantages for those who did not fight within the endgame wars themselves. Like having a noob reap all the benefits and only ever start on Mercury. No. Galatic control rating comes from the individuals participation in the endgame wars. The amount of time, or the amount of kills, or overall contributions like sabotaging generators or doing alert missions would help this rating go higher.

What this rating does is completely up to the devs.

A suggestion that I know would be a very hard one to do on your end of the bargain (devs) is the reward of Platinum for reaching max galactic control, and then resetting the galactic control so that they can start all over. While this does sound completely unbeneficial for the devs, they should make it to where reaching max galactic control takes a long time to do, and only rewards the players with a bit of it. Say... 50 platinum for every 100% you do. Or perhaps it increases in platinum depending on the planet. Like 10 platinum for Mercury and 75 platinum for Eris. Eris being the more difficult to obtain, as it takes more kills/time/contributions.

Your players would be eternally grateful. I've been keeping up with the forums. A major complaint so far is that there is no way for them to obtain said platinum to be able to unlock new Warframe slots and weapon slots after they've used up the beginnings of they platinum. For me, a Master founder, it doesn't affect me as much. But for them who have no real way of doing that, it does put some people off. Some complained that they want a method, whatever it is, to get said platinum. So that, with effort, they can obtain things just like everyone else.

The difficulty in obtaining said platinum should take a long time. Which, in theory, should increase the amount of platinum buyers after players get tired of having to reach 100% galactic control to get only so little. For those players specifically doing endgames simply for the Platinum that is.

Another suggestion for rewards would be adding a sort of perk to the Endgame. Like, say resource gathering for example. After reaching 100% galactic control on the specified planet (Say earth for example for now), it adds to a passive perk that increases your individual resource find on regular instances (the ones we have as of this moment). It adds like... say a certain percent. Let's go with 25% for now. And let's have that percent cap at 300%. Which means players would have to reach 100% galactic control on said specified planet such as Earth 12 times, which would definitely take a LONG time. But the benefits would be letting them have triple the resource find on Earth endgame, which they would only be able to find in the endgame, the barrels that exist (which could be restored every few minutes or so for health orbs etc etc.) and the killing of the enemies.

Again, I've been skulking around the forums. I keep in touch. I know the stuff that goes down yo. And I know for a fact that people are upset at the resource find, especially for alloy plate and rubedo. I too agree, I got all Warframes by farming... This would be a very nice reward indeed.

This allows players to obtain everything they need or want with enough patience, time, devotion, and work. And it allows players who don't have all of those things to pop in and out of battle at any desired time (no penalty for leave, unlimited revives, and does not count as loss), which helps a lot of those people who play at work or school or who don't have enough time at work to be able to enjoy the game too and be able to use their free time playing instead of having to worry about getting another LOSS because they got called out or it was time for class or something.

I've talked about all the advantages... but none of the disadvantages. Losing a match would and does have a universal affect on players. It depletes galactic control on said planet for ALL players, the rating exists aside your own, so it shouldn't tamper with your rating, but on the planet rating. What this effects I cannot think of. But perhaps I can. Maybe it can control the amount of times you would run an Earth Everest run to get Trinity BP and find yourself phasing cold which halves your shields or fire hazards or things of the sort. Perhaps even, adds new enviormental hazards that have more drastic implications on regular combat upon those types of instances. Sub-zero cold that halves your shields and slows your fire rate. Inevitable fire-hazards. etc etc. Anywho, I'm sure there more you can think of devs.

Now here comes the last one.

10.) The use of the rewards. ^^ I will be entirely cheap about this last one. The increase in rubedo find and alloy plate find will only mean that people are obtaining all those things to build more things, like weapons and warframes. I'm sure you guys will need a lot more weapons and weapon ideas to make this sort of system be more viable for the insane rubedo find that players will have.

For now, all I have is an entire thread dedicated to indexing Weapons, weapon types, and all things weapons! Later I will add one for Warframes as well. Check it out if you need ideas. I will go out of my way to say that most of them would greatly AID the Tenno in this new endgame mode if you are considering of using it, something similar to it, or taking advice from this and reforming it to your liking.

It is beneficial and imparitive that you review and check out the weapon threads plox! You can find it here: https://forums.warfr...and-the-latter/

Thanks for readin!

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Suggested by Vansif: Fortresses

Everything from this sentence forward is purely his doing, I agreed with everything and have nothing to add, it is a suggestion to be added to this end-game phase

There should be different lengths for all wars. Lets take Mercury for instance. Small planet. Obviously it should be a small war. It's the start of it. The beginning of the end. The size and lengths of the war- And the difficulties should rise as you progress on the star-map. But. Heres just a list of upgrades i've come up with for the: "Fortresses". (Side note: Players may have simultanious upgrades running at once. To a max of 3. This will make players have to pick and choose their upgrades due to the time it will take to upgrade; - Also; Credit values may be changed to make it more balanced. I understand not every player is going to have 1mil+ credits. But this end game is intended to be a credit sink that way we don't have players with 50mil + credits with nothing to spend them on.)

This will be the log for a "Long" war.

Wall upgrades; to a max of level 3

Level 0 (Default - Destroyed walls)

Level 1: 500,000 Credits - 30 minnutes

Level 2: 1,000,000 Credits - 45 minnutes

Level 3 (MAX): 1,500,000 Credits - 1 hour, 35 minnutes

(Note: together its 2 hours and 50 minnutes just to fully complete the wall upgrades. In the aspect of a long war, I suggest it should take several hours to complete the game. Players do not have to upgrade if they choose not to. But their fortress will be more easily breached. The lower the level, the more structural decay that is in the walls that enemies can run through and the easier the walls are to being destroyed.)

Gate upgrades:

Level 0 (Default - No gate)

Level 1: 150,000 credits - 15 minnutes (Weak gate)

Level 2: 300,000 credits - 45 minnutes (Stronger gate)

Level 3 (MAX): 500,000 Credits - 1 hour (Strong gate. Not easily breached.)

Mounted weapons:

Level 0 (Default - No mounted weapons)

Level 1: 250,000 credits -20 minnutes (This unlocks basic mounted turrets that players have to manually use.)

Level 2: 500,000 credits - 40 minnutes (This upgrade turns a few of the manual turrets into auto-firing turrets. half of the turrets are still manual use)

Level 3 (MAX): 750,000 credits - 1 Hour (This upgrade makes all turrets automatic firing.)

Anti-stealthing generator

Level 0 (Default - No generator)

Level 1: 1,000,000 credits - One hour (Unstealths all enemys within a range)

Level 2 (MAX): 1,500,000 credits - One hour (Extends the range)

Tracking Radar

Level 0 (Default - No Radar)

Level 1: 250,000 credits (Enemies are displayed on player minimap in a radius around the HQ.)

Level 2: 500,000 credits (Enemies are displayed on a longer range.)

Level 3 (MAX): 750,000 credits (All enemies are displayed on the map)

Barracks

Level 0 (Default barracks, players can spawn here)

Level 1: 100,000 Credits - 10 minnutes (Players can buy basic war-related equipment here. I'll explain in a moment)

Level 2: 300,000 Credits - 30 minnutes (Players can buy advanced war-related eqiupment here.)

Level 3 (MAX): 500,000 Credits - 1 hour (Players can buy all war related equipment)

That's all upgrades i have for the moment. But to explain the Barracks upgrades alittle more, We're talking about an open world map. It would be nice to have eqiupment that can be taken into the field to help add a bonus to the Tennos strength. They take a few minnutes to set up. And to add a bonus where players have to cover whoever is setting it up, the player must complete a activation phase. (Take the hacking screen as an example. Make it larger, and no time limit. Cyphers are not allowed to be used while constructing.) Here's some examples.

Anti-cloaking generator (Deployable) 50,000 Credits

Effects: Uncloaks all cloaked enemies within a radius around the generator.

Short wall (Deployable) - 10,000 credits

Effects: Deploys a short wall players can crouch behind to avoid fire. Is short, Has low HP threshold. Can have manual machine guns mounted on it. Once destroyed, the MG's are destroyed aswell.

Medium wall (Deployable) - 50,000 credits

Effects: Deploys a medium wall players can crouch behind to avoid fire. Is a medium length. Has a higher HP threshold than the short wall. Can have manual machine guns mounted on it. Once destroyed, the MG's are destroyed aswell.

If you guys can see where i'm going with this. Feel free to chip in your own contributions. Also; The activation phase is only for electronical eqiupment. Obviously you won't have to activate any electronics on a wall.

========================================================================================================================================================================================================

As such, if you feel that there is something that you can contribute to this endgame idea, I only ask that you think about it thoroughly. As of where this stand, PvP seems an illogical choice, so please think twice about posting about it. If you feel strongly about adding some sort of PvP, be sure to detail it as best as possible a solution to the middleman. I will rightfully include it within this post as the suggestion above me. Thank you for reading!

Edited March 18, 2013 by Darkevony

[Apinaheebo]

I read like 1% of it but sounds good!

[Dr-Jelly]

This is simply amazing. I got excited at the part where legions of Corpus proxies coming from the hills. Imagine a line of Rhino using I ron skin followed by Volt and Frost spamming their 4th skills.

[Feindfeuer]

As far as i know. the planetside map rumors refers to maps thare are on a planet, ie planetside, unlike the current space based maps. Not like in maps that are as large as planetside (the game) maps. So maybe redo your endgame ideas with that in mind. I maybe wrong, but i doubt it.

[Sophax]

Nice suggestion ! I do think the developers are going somewhat in the same direction as your suggestion is poiting out. But the biggest difference I think is that they want there to be also competition between the Warframe clans and players themselves. There is no bigger incentive than competition for most players. Some of the oldest competitive games have a large playerbase even to this day ( CS 1.6, Jedi Acadamy etc).

I think the developers are trying to figure out a system where clans fight over control of certain areas. Somewhat like turf war in San Andreas. Maybe even clan controlled attacks where one clan decides to send a wave of npc's to another clan's area. Altough this sounds like a cool idea but without a PvP system it would just be a matter of who kills the npc's the fastest.

Competition based on this idea wouldn't stand long because its just not as thrilling or personal as killing another warframe player and can't be repetitive because of the human psychology coming into play.

So what I suggest is that you have a combination of Pve AND PvP when you have clan wars for control over certain areas. There would be a certain number of actual players facing each other on a prodecural generated map (I'll come back to this later) with a number of NPC's for each side. The number of NPC's could depend on an actual economy where you can "buy" extra forces or even "upgrade" your area with defence mechanisms you buy. There are many possibilities to incorporate such mentioned mechanics.

PvP wouldn't be THAT hard to incorporate. We already have a blocking mechanics coming up with update 7 so melee weapons can be dealt with. As for Warframe powers, I personally think they can be balanced out so there would be no OP shenanigans. People might be thinking now "What about some powers like invisibility, wouldn't that be a bit too much?". Again I think they can be balanced out you could even have another Warframe which emits a strong sonic explosions that makes them visible again. There are many possiblities so saying that PvP is impossible is not rational.

I also think there can't be and endgame if you choose to incorporate this into your game because as the story develops new areas and factions will emerge to keep the flow of wars also the terrains on which the battles take place can also be varried each and every time.

Currently we have ships that can be varied but what if you have entire terrains that can be randomized?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3eZtBKXgkE

Edited March 10, 2013 by Sophax

[Nod_Off]

Do not forget this is still a game in its beta stages.

[Cawkslapjones]

It's well written, but so distractingly pretentious and ponderous that I'm struggling to finish reading it. Maybe I'll come back to it later.

[neKroMancer]

I think Darkevony misinterpret the 'planetside' map. It's still a procedurally generated map like Corpus ship/Grineer asteroid tileset. The setting just got change more sky and more dirt instead of metallic confined space. You probably want to change your end game 'Warzone' design.

However, this idea could work well when DE have much more capital to invest in a server. The current P2P network probably going to stutter under such data upload/download.

Personally, I think clanwar is going to be an endgame for Warframe. A PvPvE to determine territorial control of each clan. Multiple suggestions were made in the forum, including my own.

Creating a dynamic sol system : A concept.

https://forums.warfr...pt/#entry114784

Edited March 10, 2013 by neKroMancer

[Venarge]

Just like feindfeuer said. Just because we are on a planet, doesnt mean there is a giant map as well.......

[Notso]

Planetside ≠ planet-side

:P

Edited March 10, 2013 by Notso

[jinvonoe]

That's going to be a nightmare for people with slower connections. If/when that happens, what next? Should DE start creating different battle arenas for people with specific speeds (forced segregations, thus reducing the overall number of people who can participate in that mass PvE battle), or just let everyone mash together and essentially bring everyone down with lag?

Also, I would also like to speak for those without a good enough rig. I will honestly say I have a crappy rig, but I'm still happy with this game because I can still muddle through the game with everything in low. An open map with tens (or hundreds or--God forbid--thousands) of moving units will reduce everything to a crawl. If you add that problem to the latency issues that such a setup is sure to generate, it'll lock out the "end-game" content to a select few, due to sheer unplayability.

I have to admit that I didn't read through the entire post (there was a lot of bush-beating during the first half and I just kind of gave up), but I did read through more than half and it's a grand idea--if the devs can pull it off without marginalizing a percentage of the active players. However, the sheer scale of that would mean it would be a long time coming (it's no joke developing content).

I'm not sure if it's been suggested already, but maybe we can instead have an endless defense mission--only instead of beating off the small fry you try to beat boss NPCs that get stronger. Of course, since it's a boss wave battle the rewards should also scale accordingly.

Cheers! :D

[GrayFox]

^_^ what a healthy thread of imagination

well don't know if you guys still know Fantasy Earth Zero...

I think the map control battle from 5 factions and visually see which faction controls which map and is constantly changing would be quite an exciting factor if DE decided to put something not exactly as FEZ's but akin to it.

dreamers gotta dream I guess. :P

[Sealgaire]

Steve explicitly said in the livestream that we'll never be seeing large, open maps in Warframe. The weapons and skills as they are would play like absolute crap in an environment like Planetside's.

[HoloTheTricksterWolf]

Nice suggestion ! I do think the developers are going somewhat in the same direction as your suggestion is poiting out. But the biggest difference I think is that they want there to be also competition between the Warframe clans and players themselves. There is no bigger incentive than competition for most players. Some of the oldest competitive games have a large playerbase even to this day ( CS 1.6, Jedi Acadamy etc).

I think the developers are trying to figure out a system where clans fight over control of certain areas. Somewhat like turf war in San Andreas. Maybe even clan controlled attacks where one clan decides to send a wave of npc's to another clan's area. Altough this sounds like a cool idea but without a PvP system it would just be a matter of who kills the npc's the fastest.

Competition based on this idea wouldn't stand long because its just not as thrilling or personal as killing another warframe player and can't be repetitive because of the human psychology coming into play.

So what I suggest is that you have a combination of Pve AND PvP when you have clan wars for control over certain areas. There would be a certain number of actual players facing each other on a prodecural generated map (I'll come back to this later) with a number of NPC's for each side. The number of NPC's could depend on an actual economy where you can "buy" extra forces or even "upgrade" your area with defence mechanisms you buy. There are many possibilities to incorporate such mentioned mechanics.

PvP wouldn't be THAT hard to incorporate. We already have a blocking mechanics coming up with update 7 so melee weapons can be dealt with. As for Warframe powers, I personally think they can be balanced out so there would be no OP shenanigans. People might be thinking now "What about some powers like invisibility, wouldn't that be a bit too much?". Again I think they can be balanced out you could even have another Warframe which emits a strong sonic explosions that makes them visible again. There are many possiblities so saying that PvP is impossible is not rational.

I also think there can't be and endgame if you choose to incorporate this into your game because as the story develops new areas and factions will emerge to keep the flow of wars also the terrains on which the battles take place can also be varried each and every time.

Currently we have ships that can be varied but what if you have entire terrains that can be randomized?

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=OiGADgezjC8

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=G3eZtBKXgkE

You undermean this. I understand what they will add, I understand the thing about clans. But Warframe, as I had said, wouldn't survive being PvP. It is ridiculous beyond belief. Bolt weapons would take down an armored Rhino in a second or two. Frost would just freeze you and wait for more people to gank you into submission, or kill you himself. The system isn't meant for PvP. It shouldn't. I'm sorry, but it just can't work. I proposed this game as an alternative to PvP. Don't know if it'll fix the problem that the game gets repetitive after a while, but there is a lot of hours of work and fun in it for ya in the endgame, as players show of their specially modded Warframes in a brilliant display against the Legions of the damned. But ya know, one can't always be right.

[HoloTheTricksterWolf]

I think Darkevony misinterpret the 'planetside' map. It's still a procedurally generated map like Corpus ship/Grineer asteroid tileset. The setting just got change more sky and more dirt instead of metallic confined space. You probably want to change your end game 'Warzone' design.

However, this idea could work well when DE have much more capital to invest in a server. The current P2P network probably going to stutter under such data upload/download.

Personally, I think clanwar is going to be an endgame for Warframe. A PvPvE to determine territorial control of each clan. Multiple suggestions were made in the forum, including my own.

Creating a dynamic sol system : A concept.

https://forums.warfr...pt/#entry114784

Guess someone didn't read it thoroughly. :T I referred to TRIBES ASCEND. The map is more reasonably sized and a lot of the features from it where what I stated. Welp, whatevs. I'm sure they could afford a reasonably sized server for now, if only for Mercury. One map should be enough until the open beta. As I said, if it comes to fruition, if Warframe does goed in this endgame phase, then why not add more as the time goes on? :T

[HoloTheTricksterWolf]

Steve explicitly said in the livestream that we'll never be seeing large, open maps in Warframe. The weapons and skills as they are would play like absolute crap in an environment like Planetside's.

"Planetside" And I didn't use planetside as my final go-to did I? Tribes Ascend. Newsflash, update 7 has an open map.

[HoloTheTricksterWolf]

That's going to be a nightmare for people with slower connections. If/when that happens, what next? Should DE start creating different battle arenas for people with specific speeds (forced segregations, thus reducing the overall number of people who can participate in that mass PvE battle), or just let everyone mash together and essentially bring everyone down with lag?

Also, I would also like to speak for those without a good enough rig. I will honestly say I have a crappy rig, but I'm still happy with this game because I can still muddle through the game with everything in low. An open map with tens (or hundreds or--God forbid--thousands) of moving units will reduce everything to a crawl. If you add that problem to the latency issues that such a setup is sure to generate, it'll lock out the "end-game" content to a select few, due to sheer unplayability.

I have to admit that I didn't read through the entire post (there was a lot of bush-beating during the first half and I just kind of gave up), but I did read through more than half and it's a grand idea--if the devs can pull it off without marginalizing a percentage of the active players. However, the sheer scale of that would mean it would be a long time coming (it's no joke developing content).

I'm not sure if it's been suggested already, but maybe we can instead have an endless defense mission--only instead of beating off the small fry you try to beat boss NPCs that get stronger. Of course, since it's a boss wave battle the rewards should also scale accordingly.

Cheers! :D

"Didn't read" Well ain't that a toot. See, the server is on THEIR end. This endgame is a way to get the game away from being a grind fest as it is on this current stage and will remain. This will provide the incentive for Platinum buyers to buy more (in theory) for the grinding of things would be unbeneficial. I'm sure they'd make a lot of money as is, adding new weapons and warframes, etc etc, it'll net them a fortune, I'm sure they can use a little of their money to maintain at least ONE of these servers. Player connectivity would be strictly your problem then eh? We can't degrade ourselves for those who lack. Loses integrity. Like trying to add all sorts of elements to appeal to a crowd simply so you won't offend anyone. Like what Dead Space did and became an action shooter by the end of it's lifespan. Anyways, people have to read this more carefully...

[HoloTheTricksterWolf]

Jesus. You guys and thinking that I wanted a Planetside map for this game mode. READ CAREFULLY DAMN IT. I STATED TRIBES ASCEND FOR A REASON. I'm editing this...

[Nyne]

Wow what a wall of text!

Fantastic ideas so far; love to see some of this actually implemented for sure.

[Sophax]

You undermean this. I understand what they will add, I understand the thing about clans. But Warframe, as I had said, wouldn't survive being PvP. It is ridiculous beyond belief. Bolt weapons would take down an armored Rhino in a second or two. Frost would just freeze you and wait for more people to gank you into submission, or kill you himself. The system isn't meant for PvP. It shouldn't. I'm sorry, but it just can't work. I proposed this game as an alternative to PvP. Don't know if it'll fix the problem that the game gets repetitive after a while, but there is a lot of hours of work and fun in it for ya in the endgame, as players show of their specially modded Warframes in a brilliant display against the Legions of the damned. But ya know, one can't always be right.

I never said it should be strictly PvP and I do think you can balance things out so that it would be an enjoyable mixed Pv(E/P) experience.

[HoloTheTricksterWolf]

I never said it should be strictly PvP and I do think you can balance things out so that it would be an enjoyable mixed Pv(E/P) experience.

When you figure it out, let me know. Not trying to sound mean, but I find it impossible to add a fairgame pvp.

[Sophax]

When you figure it out, let me know. Not trying to sound mean, but I find it impossible to add a fairgame pvp.

You have people in who see problems and you have people who see solutions. I am seeing solutions.

There reason I'm not going into detail is because: 1) It is not my job since I'm not a develper

2)I don't have the time or data to back it up.

Its mostly about changing damage values which requires time and effort from alot of testers.

You're not being mean you're being ignorant.

[HoloTheTricksterWolf]

You have people in who see problems and you have people who see solutions. I am seeing solutions.

There reason I'm not going into detail is because: 1) It is not my job since I'm not a develper

2)I don't have the time or data to back it up.

Its mostly about changing damage values which requires time and effort from alot of testers.

You're not being mean you're being ignorant.

I'm being reasonable. You forget what Warframe is. You forget that changing numbers won't make anyone happier, except those with the obsession with ranking up numbers. You forget the genre, the feel, and the style of the game.

Not having enough evidence to back up your claim is like arguing with a 70 year old lion tamer who has gone through thick and thin with an olden lion, becoming almost like friends. While the chance that the Lion's insticts could kill the old lion tamer are ever present, that doesn't mean that the college student with no experience should deny him the rights to practice what he does with the lion.

Plus, all of what I suggested is in theory. Do you think 5k words of paraphrasing and inquiring is just for show? Did you even read it? What I told you was that Warframe abilities and guns have attributes that shouldn't, nor would allow such a fairgame.

Call me mean, call me pretentious, call me ignorant. I could deny them, but they would just strengthen your claim. I like to believe that I am reasonable. That I'm saying what I'm saying because I can justify my claims. I can vindicate my words. Not with subjective claims, but with facts. The cold hard facts.

Speak now or forever remain silent. I will say this once more, so I will never have to say it to you again. It isn't that PvP will never happen, its that PvP should never happen.

Warframe is an rpg at heart. Everything you gain, everything you work for: Warframes, guns, ranks, initiate levels, Warframe/gun customizations, mods&artifacts, skills. All of these things are variables that ultimately make the player stronger. Some choose to use only their guns, some choose to use only their skills (power strength, power range, power efficiency). The point is, all of these things cater towards becoming stronger a certain way. Your killing/survivability efficincy is the ultimate goal in this game.

What this thread is, is a proposition of an "ENDGAME", an endgame being the point in a game where you reach after working so hard, after completeing everything. While other traditional mmorpg games have PvP as an endgame where you can take all your shiny armor, weapons, skills, etc to fight other people with the same things, and some are even real-time action skills like Tera Online, the same rules don't, and should not, be applied to an "ACTION HACK AND SLASH SHOOTER" such as Warframe, where PHYSICS play a large role, things like elemental values on guns (I.E. Electricity mods stunning, frost mods slowing, fire mods panicking) and also elemental skills and utility skills (Nyx and Trinity being the major examples here) would completely negate any idea of a PvP. You know how absurd it would be to have Nyx control you for a period of time, and all you can do it watch as she kills you. Fixing the numbers will change NOTHING.

Nerfing and threading the numbers into one static mess would be pointless. Stupid even. (This is all my opinion, but I have reasons to back this up). Look at diablo 3 for example. Having a fairgame pvp would mean having to fix a static damage on all players (preferably default damage). That means that all the hours and money you spent on having to buy gear and level up your paragon would be completely in vain. It wouldn't BE an ENDGAME otherwise. It would be a completely seperate game on its own. If they didn't fix the values, it would be completely ridiculous if some player comes in with the best gear in the world and remains unbeatable because he can do 1Ms of damage.

There shouldn't be an arguement. PvP shouldn't exist. No matter how much you nerf the numbers, the skills, the Warframes. I say shouldn't because it wouldn't be in Warframe's best interest to have a PvP. I'm sorry, I really am. I initially thought of PvP like yourself, and while I would have loved to see it happen in someway or another, after playing it for weeks, dedicating my time and patience to this game, I found nothing to gain, and I found no reach around, no middleman, no solution to PvP.

I only understood it as it being unbeneficial for Warframe. It is why I have implored you to find a solution for me. For I can no longer see it.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Darkevony

[neKroMancer]

Make it shorter and lots more precise will help your cause.

[HoloTheTricksterWolf]

Make it shorter and lots more precise will help your cause.

By "precise" what is it that you mean? Do you want me to add numbers into the fray? Do you want me to cutdown on all the superflous words? Sorry my boy, but I believe everything in their exists for a reason. To emphisize or to critisize. I will not shorten it for those who don't want to read :T. It was a hard effort, and it shall stay as it is.