Saving Warframe From The Inevitable End; The End Game

[neKroMancer]

By "precise" what is it that you mean? Do you want me to add numbers into the fray? Do you want me to cutdown on all the superflous words? Sorry my boy, but I believe everything in their exists for a reason. To emphisize or to critisize. I will not shorten it for those who don't want to read :T. It was a hard effort, and it shall stay as it is.

You're writing a proposal, not a short novel.

You have to demonstrate your concepts with it's benefit/drawback before readers' attention run out. The fact that all forumers seemed to misunderstand you isn't enough to change your mind?

[Yurt]

You're writing a proposal, not a short novel.

You have to demonstrate your concepts with it's benefit/drawback before readers' attention run out. The fact that all forumers seemed to misunderstand you isn't enough to change your mind?

They didn't misunderstand it, they just posted their comments without even finishing reading. I'm about halfway through right now and I'm going to finish it later before I post what I think about it.

[HoloTheTricksterWolf]

You're writing a proposal, not a short novel.

You have to demonstrate your concepts with it's benefit/drawback before readers' attention run out. The fact that all forumers seemed to misunderstand you isn't enough to change your mind?

They misunderstood me because they didn't read carefully. A lot of them thought I was hoping for a "Planetside" map. Which is EXTEREMLY huge. I later stated that a smaller but reasonably sized maps like the ones from "Tribes Ascend" would fit a better role such for what I had planned. No one seemed to have gotten that part. I'm not sure if you misunderstood too. Less then 1/4 of the entire thing is superflous facts created from my ego.

Facts, works, clockworks and gears. Everything is either to emphisize or critisize, it all adds to how it could work and why it would work. Of what an ENDGAME proposal should be. If their attention span runs out before they can understand it, I won't care to change it to work with their ADD. I presented it in the most graphical style of wording, bolding, italisizing, underlining. I could have made it into one paragraph of pure mesh, but I placed it in paragraphs, spaced it, and all the latter. I'm sorry. But I believe everything here is for a REASON.

Also, not all the forumers seemed to have misunderstood me. Several agreed to the idea, some had ideas to add to this (Like the one proposing PvP into this endgame and me stating why it wouldn't work). Some misunderstood. Oh well, don't care.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Darkevony

[CheeseHasLeafs]

Even then, you don't have to bash everyone who doesn't agree with it, or doesn't seem to understand it.

You could even do a tl;dr and just put: War.

That would probably inspire most people to read through the whole thing.

On topic:

As much as I like the sound of this, the lag problems are quite justified. Even with our current maps, there are lag problems, which are only intensified when one of the massive buildups of enemies occur. In your scenario, there would definitely be more than 10 or 20 enemies visible at any time, and lag would be a death sentence. Not to mention FPS problems for those with lower specs.

Also, the devs have stated that they'll be sticking to procedural generation and tilesets. This tends to work best when the tiles are connected by tunnels, single doors and air vents. I doubt the new tileset, outdoor as it is, will be any different.

[kiwicanfly]

+1, great idea. we need a greater goal to unit all the players and give them the sense of being part of a greater cause.

but we would need to get DE to rent their own server first, imagine 7 frost & volt & ember doing their ultimate in a p2p connection....XD

[HoloTheTricksterWolf]

Even then, you don't have to bash everyone who doesn't agree with it, or doesn't seem to understand it.

You could even do a tl;dr and just put: War.

That would probably inspire most people to read through the whole thing.

On topic:

As much as I like the sound of this, the lag problems are quite justified. Even with our current maps, there are lag problems, which are only intensified when one of the massive buildups of enemies occur. In your scenario, there would definitely be more than 10 or 20 enemies visible at any time, and lag would be a death sentence. Not to mention FPS problems for those with lower specs.

Also, the devs have stated that they'll be sticking to procedural generation and tilesets. This tends to work best when the tiles are connected by tunnels, single doors and air vents. I doubt the new tileset, outdoor as it is, will be any different.

Not bashing, just reinforcing my claims. A lot of the people who have commented here have stated there being something wrong with my idea, be it Planetside map or PvP aspects. I reinforced my claims as to "this not being a planetside map, but a tribes ascend map" or "pvp just doesn't work" and placed evidence to support my claim. If it sounded hostile or pretentious, I'm sorry, I didn't mean it to be that way. You must be asseritive sometimes though with these kinds of people. (Also, I added the darn note at the beginning, either be willing to read it all or don't bother. Simple as I can make it)

On Topic:

Latency lag only occurs because the lead player is the one hosting the game. If his download/upload speeds aren't to par with everyone elses and the game's, it causes lag. The factors as to why this happens is the distance between the players, or the lead host's connectivity speeds. This is not the case as I have suggested for a server to be placed on the Warframe's side of the field. A client-sided system. At it's current stage, since games are being hosted by people and not the company, it makes way for my suggestion, as the devs could potentially include this endgame system as a stand-alone from the progressive system. I did state that it would be nice to see "a endgame war map" at every planet, but please, keep reading.

Beginning, this would be costly unefficient. I also added within the text wall of jericho for them to begin with ONE server, and see if it worked well after open beta release/official release, as it'll be open to the public and more players would be able to join and play. I'm sure they'll make enough money to support more and more servers, eventually adding to the incentive to urge existing players to invite friends and newcomers. This endgame is a way to keep the game alive for longer, and if its alive for longer, it is then more profitable. The more profitable, the more investment on servers. IN THEORY.

As for fps issues, well, we can't dish out apple pie to everyone now can we? Games that try to cater towards everyone end up being a mess. Take Dead Space 3 for example. First a horror game, then an action shooter. Tsk tsk. Anywho. This is just closed beta. I'm sure they'll be adding more graphical options in the future to try and render the game for the lower speced computers. Have you ever heard of render distance? There are a lot of technical reach arounds. :T

Edited March 11, 2013 by Darkevony

[HoloTheTricksterWolf]

+1, great idea. we need a greater goal to unit all the players and give them the sense of being part of a greater cause.

but we would need to get DE to rent their own server first, imagine 7 frost & volt & ember doing their ultimate in a p2p connection....XD

Exactly my point old chap! xD

[Vansif]

I approve of this idea, completely. It would definatly give more players incentive to play, to feel as if their work actually counts for something. The grindfest known as the current endgame is horrid.

Darkevony, I read your giant wall of text. And i understood all of it. You made execellent points. But lets add something onto your idea. The enemy numbers are opimized to the ammount of tenno on the map. But there should be another variable to increase difficulty. What, i'm not sure. But nobody likes a easy match.

On the topic of HQ's though. We need to make it difficult to breach, that way players cannot just rush in and take it over. Something that'll make players think. Make them cautious. I was thinking more like anti-stealth mechanisms around the HQ that would prevent stealthing inside and in a certain radius outside until its disabled. Or a radar jammer so the players mini-map wouldnt work. Players would have to find the source of the jam and disable it. Mounted guns on walls of the HQ, Enemy snipers. More advanced AI for the HQ. Have special units that are ONLY in the HQ. Not outside.

As for the Tenno HQ. The war should start with the first shots being fired. That is how all wars start. Tenno force is undetected on the map. The first map objective is to secure a HQ for your forces. From there, player credits become useful. Upgrade the walls to take more damage, install auto-firing turrets on the walls. Build sniper roosts. Upgrading a demolished HQ that you and your fellow Tenno took over into a fortress. Because, What if the enemy turns out to be TOO strong and the Tenno have to make a final stand like the Alamo at their HQ? If the Tenno neglected to raise defences, They shall fall easy. But if they took time and effort to upgrade their HQ. Then they will have a formidable stronghold to push from. Make the upgrading system take time though. Like the blueprints. If a single war takes a week (If it's possible to make it last that long) Make upgrades take hours. If the wars will be short (Which they shouldnt be) Make it take minnutes. Make players have to throw in credits to upgrade.

Ex: Wall upgrade level 1: 2,500,000 Credits

Current: (1,466,379 / 2,500,000)

Time to construct: 30 minnutes.

Theres lots of things that can be done with this idea. And the idea of a eternal war, large-scale battles. The use of Alerts to change the tide of battle to help your team. I love all of it. If this was implemented. This would be my favorite game. Ever. It would give Warframe a uniqueness that would dazzle players and bring hordes of people to the game. And the creators would be rolling in $$$. Mostly due to the fact players would be buying all of the boosts from the microtrasaction shop trying to enter the war and fight alongside their Tenno bretheren.

tl;dr - Do this.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Vansif

[J-Pax]

Hey who said Loki wouldn't be useful? See that grineer platoon sat up on that high ridge, heavily in cover on that rock formation - mowing down tenno with overpowering fire? Switch teleport, Radial disarm - time to get that axe out.

Edited March 11, 2013 by J-Pax

[Access_Denied]

Not bad ideas here and there, Wouln't mind seeing these in game. Great job.

[DellSalami]

Perfect. +1

[HoloTheTricksterWolf]

I approve of this idea, completely. It would definatly give more players incentive to play, to feel as if their work actually counts for something. The grindfest known as the current endgame is horrid.

Darkevony, I read your giant wall of text. And i understood all of it. You made execellent points. But lets add something onto your idea. The enemy numbers are opimized to the ammount of tenno on the map. But there should be another variable to increase difficulty. What, i'm not sure. But nobody likes a easy match.

On the topic of HQ's though. We need to make it difficult to breach, that way players cannot just rush in and take it over. Something that'll make players think. Make them cautious. I was thinking more like anti-stealth mechanisms around the HQ that would prevent stealthing inside and in a certain radius outside until its disabled. Or a radar jammer so the players mini-map wouldnt work. Players would have to find the source of the jam and disable it. Mounted guns on walls of the HQ, Enemy snipers. More advanced AI for the HQ. Have special units that are ONLY in the HQ. Not outside.

As for the Tenno HQ. The war should start with the first shots being fired. That is how all wars start. Tenno force is undetected on the map. The first map objective is to secure a HQ for your forces. From there, player credits become useful. Upgrade the walls to take more damage, install auto-firing turrets on the walls. Build sniper roosts. Upgrading a demolished HQ that you and your fellow Tenno took over into a fortress. Because, What if the enemy turns out to be TOO strong and the Tenno have to make a final stand like the Alamo at their HQ? If the Tenno neglected to raise defences, They shall fall easy. But if they took time and effort to upgrade their HQ. Then they will have a formidable stronghold to push from. Make the upgrading system take time though. Like the blueprints. If a single war takes a week (If it's possible to make it last that long) Make upgrades take hours. If the wars will be short (Which they shouldnt be) Make it take minnutes. Make players have to throw in credits to upgrade.

Ex: Wall upgrade level 1: 2,500,000 Credits

Current: (1,466,379 / 2,500,000)

Time to construct: 30 minnutes.

Theres lots of things that can be done with this idea. And the idea of a eternal war, large-scale battles. The use of Alerts to change the tide of battle to help your team. I love all of it. If this was implemented. This would be my favorite game. Ever. It would give Warframe a uniqueness that would dazzle players and bring hordes of people to the game. And the creators would be rolling in $$$. Mostly due to the fact players would be buying all of the boosts from the microtrasaction shop trying to enter the war and fight alongside their Tenno bretheren.

tl;dr - Do this.

I love you good sir. Marry me. I whole-heartedly agreed with your opinions on all of this. Even to the Credit contributions for building a fortress. I originally thought of making a never ending war. But then i realized that the war has to have an end. So winning vs losing, the benefits and the disadvantages. I wanted the benefits to be individual to a player. And the disadvantages to be universal. Winning the battle had to be important. To give incentive for players to call in friends when the battle was toughened. That more Tenno were needed because the battle was getting harder. The rewards would have to be good enough for it to secure that very ideal. First thing that came to mind was Platinum. The better of the solution. Then came resource find.

I basically geared this entire post as the beginnings to an entirely possible endgame phase. I didn't really think much about how the battle would sustain. I added the two variables X- amount of people, and Y the rate of in which the hoardes were being killed. If the two were being met head on, the more Graneers, the more difficult they would be. So say these two variables were maxed, you'd have 50 Graneers, all of them heavies or seekers, and perhaps even bosses like the visualization I gave earlier about Jackals and Heynas standing like Behemoths within the crowds.

But I wanted it to be difficult to win. And difficult to lose. Your HQ idea was awesome. Will be adding it to the overall product and hope the devs take a look at this post.

Also, the thing about sabotaging HQs sounds do-able. I was thinking that, since it would be a kinda large map, at least enough to wage a war in, that depos and generator buildings/control buildings, or even armories or soldier barracades would be lying around the landscape. And sabotaging those would count as a contributions as they would decree how many enemies and enemies types would appear. Like destroying an enemy armory prevents too many Heavies from spawning, and destroying the barricades drops the number of enemies. Of course, they'd be large structures, close corridor structures. A place where ash's and loki's could battle in. The main HQ would have what you suggested, but the smaller structures scattered around would be easier, dependent on the role they would play. Like a generator having low defenses. A soldier barricade medium defensive. The HQ being nearly impossible. High Defenses.

Thanks for understanding! Something most people on the forums haven't done xD.

[Wikldash]

I absolutely love the idea, but I will be honest, I thought that you were talking about a planetside-isc map (though that would be something). I also like the idea of having to upgrade a “Broken down” base to stand as our base of operations (not yours but still a good idea).

[HoloTheTricksterWolf]

I absolutely love the idea, but I will be honest, I thought that you were talking about a planetside-isc map (though that would be something). I also like the idea of having to upgrade a “Broken down” base to stand as our base of operations (not yours but still a good idea).

Indeed it is! A planetside map would be much too large. Thanks for understanding xD

[MrGrae]

I have to say, after reading your post and the comments, I like your idea, it certainly needs refining but that's what betas are for. It would provide a good deal of enjoyable endgame content. Like you say, the DE server for this endgame content would deal with the lag issue, planetside 2 works fine with thousands of players on a map, if your computer can't manage it then I['m sorry but that's life, DE aren't going to cater to people running PCs with 90s hardware so why should they dull down future content for last year's hardware?

As for everyone advocating PvP, here is a link: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/6955-please-read-here-before-posting-suggestions-for-pvp/

PvP is NOT going to be added, end of discussion.

[Sophax]

I'm being reasonable. You forget what Warframe is. You forget that changing numbers won't make anyone happier, except those with the obsession with ranking up numbers. You forget the genre, the feel, and the style of the game.

Don't follow you when you say that changing numbers will make peope happy with the obsession with ranking up numbers?

I never said that the PvP part should influence the PvE part as it currently stands. I'm sure there can be a middleground. Is it not possible to have three types of players in this game? 1) PvE only

2) PvP only

3) I don't give a S#&$, best of both worlds.

Not having enough evidence to back up your claim is like arguing with a 70 year old lion tamer who has gone through thick and thin with an olden lion, becoming almost like friends. While the chance that the Lion's insticts could kill the old lion tamer are ever present, that doesn't mean that the college student with no experience should deny him the rights to practice what he does with the lion.

Its not about experience or evidence, its just that the devs have all the information ( including future changes) needed to ever make a PvP system happen. I'm not going to bother fishing in the dark about what an ideal PvP system maybe when I don't have the time or data needed. Like I said its not my job to make solutions only to suggest them.

Plus, all of what I suggested is in theory. Do you think 5k words of paraphrasing and inquiring is just for show?

If thats your idea of putting up a show then I'm not going to any of your shows mate.

What I told you was that Warframe abilities and guns have attributes that shouldn't, nor would allow such a fairgame.

What if I told you that it can be programemd so that you have different damage values for NPC's and players. You see changing certain numbers can make that a reality. The damage the NPC's receive and the damage possible PvP players would receive shouldn't be the same ofcourse.

Call me mean, call me pretentious, call me ignorant. I could deny them, but they would just strengthen your claim. I like to believe that I am reasonable. That I'm saying what I'm saying because I can justify my claims. I can vindicate my words. Not with subjective claims, but with facts. The cold hard facts.

Calling your own thougths facts? You're almost there of making your own show mate.

Speak now or forever remain silent.

I will say this once more, so I will never have to say it to you again.

You're quite the bad &#! aren't you? Is this your alter ego for your show perhaps?

Warframe is an rpg at heart. Everything you gain, everything you work for: Warframes, guns, ranks, initiate levels, Warframe/gun customizations, mods&artifacts, skills. All of these things are variables that ultimately make the player stronger. Some choose to use only their guns, some choose to use only their skills (power strength, power range, power efficiency). The point is, all of these things cater towards becoming stronger a certain way. Your killing/survivability efficincy is the ultimate goal in this game.

Sounds cool but the incentive of getting stronger just to kill stronger NPC's isn't as strong as getting stronger( read better) to kill other players. In normal words this means that killing brainless NPC's gets boring while killing other players does not ( wel not as fast as killing NPC's atleast).

What this thread is, is a proposition of an "ENDGAME", an endgame being the point in a game where you reach after working so hard, after completeing everything. While other traditional mmorpg games have PvP as an endgame where you can take all your shiny armor, weapons, skills, etc to fight other people with the same things, and some are even real-time action skills like Tera Online, the same rules don't, and should not, be applied to an "ACTION HACK AND SLASH SHOOTER" such as Warframe, where PHYSICS play a large role, things like elemental values on guns (I.E. Electricity mods stunning, frost mods slowing, fire mods panicking) and also elemental skills and utility skills (Nyx and Trinity being the major examples here) would completely negate any idea of a PvP. You know how absurd it would be to have Nyx control you for a period of time, and all you can do it watch as she kills you. Fixing the numbers will change NOTHING.

I never said PvP should be the end game. I said it should be in Warframe so that it could coexsist with PvE or even get mixed. The thing is, PvE and PvP can happily coexsist. Changing numbers does aid to that. If you don't grasp that then I realy have had enough of your show. Power that are designed for NPC's should only work on NPC's obviously.

I'm sorry, I really am.

No problem man, everyone can be a #$&(% from time to time. But the thing that bothers me the most is that you are in this "emo-state of mind". You're only seeing problems.

[HoloTheTricksterWolf]

No problem man, everyone can be a #$&(% from time to time. But the thing that bothers me the most is that you are in this "emo-state of mind". You're only seeing problems.

Well, if you would kindly refer back to the the "1) Welcome! Please read our FAQ before posting.". Atop this page and click on that... Oh, look at the first question answered by DE_Steve himself. It's a goody one of a question ain't it? The problem lies therein the very structure that the makers have made. Now hold up. I need to go put my ego away so that it will stop me from responding to you. Once should be enough eh mate?

Edited March 11, 2013 by Darkevony

[Yurt]

Don't follow you when you say that changing numbers will make peope happy with the obsession with ranking up numbers?

I never said that the PvP part should influence the PvE part as it currently stands. I'm sure there can be a middleground. Is it not possible to have three types of players in this game? 1) PvE only

2) PvP only

3) I don't give a S#&$, best of both worlds.

Its not about experience or evidence, its just that the devs have all the information ( including future changes) needed to ever make a PvP system happen. I'm not going to bother fishing in the dark about what an ideal PvP system maybe when I don't have the time or data needed. Like I said its not my job to make solutions only to suggest them.

What if I told you that it can be programemd so that you have different damage values for NPC's and players. You see changing certain numbers can make that a reality. The damage the NPC's receive and the damage possible PvP players would receive shouldn't be the same ofcourse.

Sounds cool but the incentive of getting stronger just to kill stronger NPC's isn't as strong as getting stronger( read better) to kill other players. In normal words this means that killing brainless NPC's gets boring while killing other players does not ( wel not as fast as killing NPC's atleast).

I never said PvP should be the end game. I said it should be in Warframe so that it could coexsist with PvE or even get mixed. The thing is, PvE and PvP can happily coexsist. Changing numbers does aid to that. If you don't grasp that then I realy have had enough of your show. Power that are designed for NPC's should only work on NPC's obviously.

You seem to know an awful lot about the game only being a member for 4 days.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Yurt

[HoloTheTricksterWolf]

You seem to know an awful lot about the game only being a member for 4 days.

"Yurt, Hanging out it with little boys in spandex I see. I love you Yurt but you can't be doing that, c'mon"

Just so I won't offend anyone, its a reference from Dragon Ball P. :P

[Vansif]

Throwing in some more information in the upgrading system, as it were. Heres a list of upgrades i've thought of and credit values for long / short wars.

But before i start, There should be different lengths for all wars. Lets take Mercury for instance. Small planet. Obviously it should be a small war. It's the start of it. The beginning of the end. The size and lengths of the war- And the difficulties should rise as you progress on the star-map. But. Heres just a list of upgrades i've come up with for the: "Fortresses". (Side note: Players may have simultanious upgrades running at once. To a max of 3. This will make players have to pick and choose their upgrades due to the time it will take to upgrade; - Also; Credit values may be changed to make it more balanced. I understand not every player is going to have 1mil+ credits. But this end game is intended to be a credit sink that way we don't have players with 50mil + credits with nothing to spend them on.)

This will be the log for a "Long" war.

Wall upgrades; to a max of level 3

Level 0 (Default - Destroyed walls)

Level 1: 500,000 Credits - 30 minnutes

Level 2: 1,000,000 Credits - 45 minnutes

Level 3 (MAX): 1,500,000 Credits - 1 hour, 35 minnutes

(Note: together its 2 hours and 50 minnutes just to fully complete the wall upgrades. In the aspect of a long war, I suggest it should take several hours to complete the game. Players do not have to upgrade if they choose not to. But their fortress will be more easily breached. The lower the level, the more structural decay that is in the walls that enemies can run through and the easier the walls are to being destroyed.)

Gate upgrades:

Level 0 (Default - No gate)

Level 1: 150,000 credits - 15 minnutes (Weak gate)

Level 2: 300,000 credits - 45 minnutes (Stronger gate)

Level 3 (MAX): 500,000 Credits - 1 hour (Strong gate. Not easily breached.)

Mounted weapons:

Level 0 (Default - No mounted weapons)

Level 1: 250,000 credits -20 minnutes (This unlocks basic mounted turrets that players have to manually use.)

Level 2: 500,000 credits - 40 minnutes (This upgrade turns a few of the manual turrets into auto-firing turrets. half of the turrets are still manual use)

Level 3 (MAX): 750,000 credits - 1 Hour (This upgrade makes all turrets automatic firing.)

Anti-stealthing generator

Level 0 (Default - No generator)

Level 1: 1,000,000 credits - One hour (Unstealths all enemys within a range)

Level 2 (MAX): 1,500,000 credits - One hour (Extends the range)

Tracking Radar

Level 0 (Default - No Radar)

Level 1: 250,000 credits (Enemies are displayed on player minimap in a radius around the HQ.)

Level 2: 500,000 credits (Enemies are displayed on a longer range.)

Level 3 (MAX): 750,000 credits (All enemies are displayed on the map)

Barracks

Level 0 (Default barracks, players can spawn here)

Level 1: 100,000 Credits - 10 minnutes (Players can buy basic war-related equipment here. I'll explain in a moment)

Level 2: 300,000 Credits - 30 minnutes (Players can buy advanced war-related eqiupment here.)

Level 3 (MAX): 500,000 Credits - 1 hour (Players can buy all war related equipment)

That's all upgrades i have for the moment. But to explain the Barracks upgrades alittle more, We're talking about an open world map. It would be nice to have eqiupment that can be taken into the field to help add a bonus to the Tennos strength. They take a few minnutes to set up. And to add a bonus where players have to cover whoever is setting it up, the player must complete a activation phase. (Take the hacking screen as an example. Make it larger, and no time limit. Cyphers are not allowed to be used while constructing.) Here's some examples.

Anti-cloaking generator (Deployable) 50,000 Credits

Effects: Uncloaks all cloaked enemies within a radius around the generator.

Short wall (Deployable) - 10,000 credits

Effects: Deploys a short wall players can crouch behind to avoid fire. Is short, Has low HP threshold. Can have manual machine guns mounted on it. Once destroyed, the MG's are destroyed aswell.

Medium wall (Deployable) - 50,000 credits

Effects: Deploys a medium wall players can crouch behind to avoid fire. Is a medium length. Has a higher HP threshold than the short wall. Can have manual machine guns mounted on it. Once destroyed, the MG's are destroyed aswell.

If you guys can see where i'm going with this. Feel free to chip in your own contributions. Also; The activation phase is only for electronical eqiupment. Obviously you won't have to activate any electronics on a wall.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Vansif

[HoloTheTricksterWolf]

If you guys can see where i'm going with this. Feel free to chip in your own contributions. Also; The activation phase is only for electronical eqiupment. Obviously you won't have to activate any electronics on a wall.

Been meaning to turn this thread into an index of ideas. It's a start! Thanks a million Vansif, you can see your idea on the original post now.

[Vansif]

I'm a supporter of good ideas and a helper of great ideas. And this, is a great idea.

[Sophax]

You seem to know an awful lot about the game only being a member for 4 days.

You don't have to play the game for an extensive amount of time to discuss the subjects at hand.

Well, if you would kindly refer back to the the "1) Welcome! Please read our FAQ before posting.". Atop this page and click on that... Oh, look at the first question answered by DE_Steve himself. It's a goody one of a question ain't it? The problem lies therein the very structure that the makers have made. Now hold up. I need to go put my ego away so that it will stop me from responding to you. Once should be enough eh mate?

They started with PvE and they would like to finish that first which is totaly understandable. So maybe in the future they'll add PvP like they hinted in this answer and the Q&A video.

[HoloTheTricksterWolf]

You don't have to play the game for an extensive amount of time to discuss the subjects at hand.

You do. Otherwise, that be impartial. Would you listen to a priest about how the world is full of hate and scorn and nothing but, and it's his first day on the job and first time even looking at a bible? Nothing to do with religion, just a metaphor.

Please discuss PvP on another thread. Feel free to use this idea of War to create your own thread if you like. I'd like to keep this thread focused on a PvE endgame.

[Sophax]

You do. Otherwise, that be impartial. Would you listen to a priest about how the world is full of hate and scorn and nothing but, and it's his first day on the job and first time even looking at a bible? Nothing to do with religion, just a metaphor.

You know you should stop using methaphors when they sound like bad jokes. Don't get me started on the one with the lions :P

Feel free to discuss anything you want, but telling me not to discuss a possible endgame( PvP/E) in an endgame thread is just belony.