What's Wrong With Warframe?

[luanle21]

i missed dmg 1.0

2.0 os ok i hate the proc chance thats it

[(PSN)youngn0121]

Apples to oranges.

 

I have well over a 1000 hours in both borderlands 1 and 2 and they have their issues just like warframe does and lets not even talk about all the issues related to rampant modded / duped weapons in both.

[YourBusDriver]

I agree with most of what you said, with the exception of stealth. And here’s why…

 

Stealth has three uses (in this game):
- Allows low level frames to unlock high level locations
- Is a mechanic which facilitates the objectives of reward obsessed speed runners whom prefer minimal opposition (same goes for explorers)
- Acts as a game play alternative for players whom have become bored with the game’s repetitive stylization

 

Stealth has three weaknesses:
- Despite multiple secret locations, and hidey-holes, the maps funnel enemies towards the player and restrict player movement, thus facilitating face-to-face combat
- There are a finite number of methods in which a player can stealthily dispatch enemies
- Despite the bonuses available for stealth kills, and stealth codex scans, the benefits cannot match those reaped through regular combat

 

Stealth historically in this game:
- Weapons and mods have been released to aid stealth combat, but they remain inadequate as the game has only a small number of facets (vantage points, hiding spots, etc.) for them to be employed.
- Enemies still manage to track players down, even when they have evaded their sight picture
- Bosses cannot be dispatched with stealth, and must be confronted directly, thus ultimately defeating any prior advantage which stealth provides

 

These implications, which I have just listed, point to one thing and one thing only…

 

Warframe is not, and never was a stealth game. It isn’t/wasn’t even a hybrid stealth game.

 

Let me iterate - from the start, stealth was never a viable option. Since then, it never has become one.

 

Sure! Using the environment, like ducking behind objects for cover, and climbing surfaces for vantage points, is essential.
But stealth? Hell no. That has never been a major function of this game. Shoot, the trailer for this game involves a full on, face-to-face confrontation. All too many of the frames are build solely for conventional fisticuffs, and shoot em’ up.

 

The way I see it, in order to add stealth, DE would have to basically reprogram the whole game – which is not happening anytime soon (maybe something for them to consider, IF a Warframe 2 is ever made). 

Edited December 14, 2013 by YourBusDriver

[DCypherThis13]

If you're talking about Borderlands 2, then there's plenty wrong with what you said.  I'm not trying to say that Warframe doesn't have problems, but actually with the introduction of Damage 2.0, Warframe became a lot more LIKE Borderlands.  You said you could use your favorite shotgun with equal effectiveness on all enemies in Borderlands.  This is simply not true.  There are armored, shielded, and flesh enemies just like in Warframe, and each of those has its own resistances and weaknesses to the elements.  You had to know this...so I'm not sure why you even said that.  Not to mention that weapons in Borderlands can't be modified to work better against certain enemy types, while in Warframe they can.  There's no gun in Borderlands that can be used in all situations with equal effectiveness.  You have to have a few options and the game heavily suggests this.  So...I'm not really sure what your point was there.  RE: your other points: Yeah not every frame is effective against all factions, and I agree that's something that should be worked on.  Immersion: yeah Borderlands wins on that front too, but one's a AAA game from a huge studio while another's a F2P shooter from a much smaller developer.  That doesn't mean immersion can't be improved in Warframe, and I think its a great idea.

 

But again: if you have a single weapon you love in Borderlands (for me its a purple Dahl shock Assault Rifle, not the Veruc, I mean a purple rank) it ISN'T effective in all situations.

I was talking about Borderlands GoTY. Borderlands 2 GoTY has not been released yet, as I recall.

[DJ_Redwire]

Yeah I stopped reading after you instantly started comparing Warframe to Borderlands. Games should be judged on their own, not judged based on some self-determined standard of something somewhere else. 

[Vitriolic_Crux]

I was talking about Borderlands GoTY. Borderlands 2 GoTY has not been released yet, as I recall.

 

Actually it has, but that's beside the point.  The same elemental system is in effect in the first Borderlands.

[SALE94]

Well i played for quite a long time (rank 7) few things are bad right now.

 

Void capture keys should be more common.

Drop Tables are little weird in void in general.

 

Trading should be little more how too put this, separated sell, and buy channels atleast.

 

Armor is not good on frames, not effective enough, at least it should be 50% as effective in comparison with grineers.

[Archistopheles]

Can you do that with using the same number of rounds to kill said enemy and not using any elemental damage? The only weapons I can think of that would work at this point are Burston, Hind and Grakata because they have balanced damage across all types.

 

Like I said,"The additional damage offered by the elemental effects is just a nice bonus, excluding a handful of scenarios."

 

That's where you're off track! Elemental damage can increase your damage by up to 360% !!! (90% x 4)

 

The standard elemental combinations add 180% alone. They are not "just a nice bonus" they are the meat of all guns. That's what gives us customization. That's how we are better than borderlands 2.

[nemarsde]

The point that I was attempting to make, without being even more long winded is that If I like one weapon specifically, it's not equally useful against every faction.

Though I think you have a point with the shotgun analogy.

 

I mean, you can imagine the conversation:

 

VetMentor: Sorry bub, you've got the wrong shotgun for this mission.

EagerNewb: What? What do you mean? I've just built this thing.

VetMentor: Yeah, and it was fine for the mission we played 10 minutes ago. The guys in this mission are resistant to that shotgun. Now you need a different shotgun, so pay up or get grinding.

EagerNewb: Oh... right. Um, I'll - I'll catch up you with later. **logs out**

Edited December 14, 2013 by nemarsde

[Sixty5]

I have no problem using a rank 3 Tigris against level 30+ infested in solo defense.

When people moan about x weapon being terrible against y enemy it just means that it isn't instagibbing them.

The game is still pretty easy.

[DCypherThis13]

That's where you're off track! Elemental damage can increase your damage by up to 360% !!! (90% x 4)

 

The standard elemental combinations add 180% alone. They are not "just a nice bonus" they are the meat of all guns. That's what gives us customization. That's how we are better than borderlands 2.

 

This is what I'm talking about...

Though I think you have a point with the shotgun analogy.

 

I mean, you can imagine the conversation:

 

VetMentor: Sorry bub, you've got the wrong shotgun for this mission.

EagerNewb: What? What do you mean? I've just built this thing.

VetMentor: Yeah, and it was fine for the mission we played 10 minutes ago. The guys in this mission are resistant to that shotgun. Now you need a different shotgun, so pay up or get grinding.

EagerNewb: Oh... right. Um, I'll - I'll catch up you with later. **logs out**

 

Archistopheles, do still accept the challenge you set for yourself, according to my rules?

Edited December 15, 2013 by DCypherThis13

[Ronyn]

I was not impressed with the actual shooter aspect of borderlands. The fun weapons masked how weak they were....

I am much more pleased with Warframes core shooter mechanics though we have a ways to go before matching the wild weaponry.

In BL Each characters power(s) were also relatively limited though Bl2 did expand on them a bit.

Warframe could use some expansion to how one can tweak the powers but starting with four actives instead of one gives it more room to grow.

 

IMO Borderland true strength come from the way it portrays character and how they interact with each other.

Most of the other stuff was more than fine but nothing to rave about.

 

Really, Warframe needs to infuse itself with interesting characters and it will have a chance to reach its potential.

[Archistopheles]

This is what I'm talking about...

 

Archistopheles, do still accept the challenge you set for yourself, according to my rules?

 

The "rules" are I get to use any mods, and you get to pick any gun. So feel free.

[Volume]

It's not that people don't want to use elemental damage, it's that you don't always have the option.

 

197:51:07 played and I got my first infected clip *today* - meaning corrosive, gas, etc, were unavailable to me beforehand.

 

Game seems hilariously easy now.

 

Difficulty curve in regards to "do you have serration or not" needs to be changed.

 

Some good points made in the OP but also a lot left unsaid.

[HomeyCDawg]

The games mechanics are still some of the most fun I've ever used, and the art design is fantastic.

 

The biggest problem I have with the game right now is that they are introducing bugs faster than they fix them. This creates a snowball effect that I know many long time players can feel.

[Flatus]

I'd like more challenging content yeah. Shooting is fun, but shooting without much sense of danger is... shooting range.

[ThePresident777]

This....

 

Damage bonuses are important in Warframe, unlike reload, proc chance, and magazine mods.  So, I am guessing that you are referring to borderlands?  You want damage mods to be irrelevant in Warframe as they are in Borderlands?  If reload, proc chance, and magazine mod bonuses were not so puny, they there would be more choice in weapon mods in warframe and more customization of weapons too.  You could adjust the action of weapons which is a lot more fun than just plain old +damage.

[DCypherThis13]

Damage bonuses are important in Warframe, unlike reload, proc chance, and magazine mods.  So, I am guessing that you are referring to borderlands?  You want damage mods to be irrelevant in Warframe as they are in Borderlands?  If reload, proc chance, and magazine mod bonuses were not so puny, they there would be more choice in weapon mods in warframe and more customization of weapons too.  You could adjust the action of weapons which is a lot more fun than just plain old +damage.

No, just extra damage. No resistance or deflection. Damage is damage.

 

If you're talking about Borderlands 2, then there's plenty wrong with what you said.  I'm not trying to say that Warframe doesn't have problems, but actually with the introduction of Damage 2.0, Warframe became a lot more LIKE Borderlands.  You said you could use your favorite shotgun with equal effectiveness on all enemies in Borderlands.  This is simply not true.  There are armored, shielded, and flesh enemies just like in Warframe, and each of those has its own resistances and weaknesses to the elements.  You had to know this...so I'm not sure why you even said that.  Not to mention that weapons in Borderlands can't be modified to work better against certain enemy types, while in Warframe they can.  There's no gun in Borderlands that can be used in all situations with equal effectiveness.  You have to have a few options and the game heavily suggests this.  So...I'm not really sure what your point was there.  RE: your other points: Yeah not every frame is effective against all factions, and I agree that's something that should be worked on.  Immersion: yeah Borderlands wins on that front too, but one's a AAA game from a huge studio while another's a F2P shooter from a much smaller developer.  That doesn't mean immersion can't be improved in Warframe, and I think its a great idea.

 

But again: if you have a single weapon you love in Borderlands (for me its a purple Dahl shock Assault Rifle, not the Veruc, I mean a purple rank) it ISN'T effective in all situations.

I missed that and I stand corrected. Thanks, friend. Christmas present for me... Yes, please.

 

But again: The damage it does remains the same. Elements and critical hits are bonuses you get for being lucky or accurate.

[DCypherThis13]

The "rules" are I get to use any mods, and you get to pick any gun. So feel free.

Nope. The rules are that you have to be able to kill any enemy of any faction with the same number of rounds of the same level, without elements. We're debating base damage, not the bonuses from elements.

 

EDIT: Bolto/Akbolto. Have fun...

Edited December 20, 2013 by DCypherThis13

[Archistopheles]

We're debating base damage, not the bonuses from elements.

 

No, you are refusing to use the tools the game is providing you.

 

I'd tell you to have fun, but you're not going to without elemental damage mods.

[DCypherThis13]

No, you are refusing to use the tools the game is providing you.

 

I'd tell you to have fun, but you're not going to without elemental damage mods.

This game can give you a "pneumatic impact wrench", but some of us still want to play with their breaker bar and socket set.

 

I think you have missed my point.

[D3thpool]

If Stealth is not going to be implemented, then just make the AI dumber so they hide less often, so we can spray and pray them all dead in seconds

 

 

 

How?

Its braindead already

[TenkoTenko]

The AI needs attention. The closest thing we have to AI can be seen whenever you fight Grineer. Butchers are the first ones to get into attack range, followed by the Lancers and Troopers, with the Heavies bringing up the rear. But this is all because of the enemies speed; Butchers run faster than Lancers which are faster than Heavies. Corpus will just stand there in the open and try to cook you with their lasers. The zombie attack style of Infested is actually the only one that makes sense. I would like to see more teamwork from the enemy. Using tactics and strengths of each unit to the advantage of the group, Infested excluded.

Grinner AI? I lost count of how many times I was killed by a ninja Grineer Scorch who waited behind a door/crate for a Tenno to walk by.