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[DE]jaywalker

Tenno Report: New Warframe 'banshee'

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NO.

Bows to BOW category

Because you're particularly crazy to have yet another ammo-type added to the game - as though Sniper drops weren't rare enough?

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For the Tenno, a powerful, no doubt mostly silent bow makes even more sense than a space ninja using loud automatic rifles, huge battle axes, and explosions.

I think when people start trying to throw in reality into an obviously extremely fictional game, they begin to forget that this is indeed a game.

Too much Hollywood, ser.

Ninja were spies and mercenaries, they basically used whatever they could get their hands on. They were loaded with tons of weapons. Poisons and acids, firearms, shrapnel bombs and mines and, of course, the more commonly known weapons, such as darts, shuriken, etc.

Because you're particularly crazy to have yet another ammo-type added to the game - as though Sniper drops weren't rare enough?

They explicitly said that this new weapon would be a new category. That was weeks ago, when they were only hinting at how crazy it was.

Edited by FatalX7

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If the leaked skills are correct...or close, I might main a Banshee.

Oh and Fatal, if I don't get a tear in this Elchuchu run, I call the right to blame you. D:

Edited by Rixxie

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I also realized that the Arrow ammo type can also open the way for other arrow-based weaponry such as the ever-famous crossbow. There's definitely potential in the Arrow and Sniper Ammo categories to expand upon. I look forward to it even if I don't plan on really using them because I'm glad that for those who DO like the idea of a bow and arrow, that the option is there.

I'm all about options lol.

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I also realized that the Arrow ammo type can also open the way for other arrow-based weaponry such as the ever-famous crossbow. There's definitely potential in the Arrow and Sniper Ammo categories to expand upon. I look forward to it even if I don't plan on really using them because I'm glad that for those who DO like the idea of a bow and arrow, that the option is there.

I'm all about options lol.

Crossbows use bolts though..

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I would like to see a railgun. give it auto puncture and a huge round, low clip and reload.

i mean honestly, a railgun and the ability to completely surpess its sound with banshee would be freaking amazing.

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Crossbows use bolts though..

I know that, but for the sake of a gameplay mechanic I was just entertaining the idea that Arrow ammo could be used for more than one weapon.

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I would like to see a railgun. give it auto puncture and a huge round, low clip and reload.

i mean honestly, a railgun and the ability to completely surpess its sound with banshee would be freaking amazing.

I approve. Of course, the challenge would be to design a railgun that ISN'T representative of MGSIV's iconic portable railgun.

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No. That's not true. Bows are no longer used in warfare for two reasons. 1; Any idiot can be trained to use a gun effectively in orders of magnitude less time than training the use of a bow (when guns were used in mass formations, it took an afternoon, and with the modern professional army, it takes less than a year to train to field readiness). 2; The introduction of small unit tactics completely invalidated the bow's niche in combat, which was being supplanted by cannons. Ease of carrying was never a concern.

You're telling me a handgun and tiny bullets are harder to carry than a longbow (required for similar range) and large arrows which have a much harder time piercing while remaining less accuarte?

To say that those two reasons are the only reaosns bows were replaced and nothing else was looked at is amusing.

Not really, 90% of a gun's noise literally cannot be surpressed, and if the round is super-sonic, than a surpressor is worthless. If you were building a ranged assassination weapon, and you absolutely needed to be silent, a gun is last thing you would ever consider as a weapon designer, as you have to sacrifice a lot of penetrating power and range to make a sub-sonic round. Which means armor becomes more effective against it. With a sufficiently strong powered exoskeleton, building for ranged stealth becomes a lot easier as you can make 300-500 pound draw bows with specialized armor penetrating tips and easily put a ton of force if not more at the point of impact without breaking the sound barrier and thus compromising stealth. Coupled with that we're doing mostly close range operations where "stealth through distance" is impossible, and a bow becomes a more and more reasonable option.

You can very much make guns far quiter. And technology has only improved as the years have gone on to do it better and better (As with anything else humankind develops, it evolves over time). To say that future guns using myrthical materials can't find a way to surpress the sound is goofy. Even if that is true, you're still talking about weapons that are harder to maintain (Bigger parts, bigger ammo), require more materials (they're larger, taking more total materials), have a slower fire rate, and (realistically) have less accuracy to speed ratio (That is to say, the faster you're firing, the lower your accuracy since your hands are constnatly moving, with a gun that has lower recoil, it becomes fairly simple to stay accurate).

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You're telling me a handgun and tiny bullets are harder to carry than a longbow (required for similar range) and large arrows which have a much harder time piercing while remaining less accuarte?

Did you even read what he posted? He didn't tell you anything about either weapon being harder to carry.

And if you're going to compare real-life surpressors, you should look at some videos or fire a gun with one. Guess what, still sounds like a gun.

Oh and Fatal, if I don't get a tear in this Elchuchu run, I call the right to blame you. D:

Who are you and what did I do to deserve this abuse.

Edited by FatalX7

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Too much Hollywood, ser.

Ninja were spies and mercenaries, they basically used whatever they could get their hands on. They were loaded with tons of weapons. Poisons and acids, firearms, shrapnel bombs and mines and, of course, the more commonly known weapons, such as darts, shuriken, etc.

They explicitly said that this new weapon would be a new category. That was weeks ago, when they were only hinting at how crazy it was.

So would a spy try to make as much noise as possible? My thoughts have nothing to do with Hollywood.

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The best thing to do is wait for the gameplay first, then judge it later :P

We're all just speculating until we're allowed that privilege. It's something to do.

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So would a spy try to make as much noise as possible? My thoughts have nothing to do with Hollywood.

Your post was centered around ninja being quiet and not using rifles and explosions, which wasn't always the case. Only Hollywood and video games did that.

Go ahead, pick out one piece and conveniently ignore the rest again.

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You're telling me a handgun and tiny bullets are harder to carry than a longbow (required for similar range) and large arrows which have a much harder time piercing while remaining less accuarte?

No. I'm saying WEIGHT OR PORTABILITY WAS NEVER A CONCERN WHEN ADOPTING GUNS, this is due to early guns being actually much harder to carry around than a bow and two hundred arrows per person (which is at least 20 times more than would be carried)-- you had to carry powder in watertight containers, the shot, the gun and all it's component parts like the ramrod and cleaning gear.
To say that those two reasons are the only reaosns bows were replaced and nothing else was looked at is amusing.
Those were the two predominant reasons why the Bow was eventually phased out. Everything else was a bonus.
You can very much make guns far quiter. And technology has only improved as the years have gone on to do it better and better (As with anything else humankind develops, it evolves over time). To say that future guns using myrthical materials can't find a way to surpress the sound is goofy. Even if that is true, you're still talking about weapons that are harder to maintain (Bigger parts, bigger ammo), require more materials (they're larger, taking more total materials), have a slower fire rate, and (realistically) have less accuracy to speed ratio (That is to say, the faster you're firing, the lower your accuracy since your hands are constnatly moving, with a gun that has lower recoil, it becomes fairly simple to stay accurate).

If a round breaks the sound barrier, the only way you are remaining stealthy is if you are thousands of meters away from your target. Given that the largest maps the game makes do not have a contiguous hallway a thousand meters in length (completely ignoring the bulkheads every 50 meters), any gun that shoots supersonic ammo cannot be meaningfully silenced without altering the physical properties of the space between you and your target. This is ignoring the sound the action makes which is material rubbing against itself, this is ignoring potential surpressors to disguise the sound of the gunshot. If the round creates a sonic boom, the gun, at the ranges we are operating in, cannot be silenced.

Now moving on to the rest of your points: A bow, even a compound bow which is orders of magnitude more complex than a normal bow, is easier to maintain than even the simplest of guns. Because there are two moving parts in this bow, and no parts that accumulate debris from firing, while the simplest guns have no moving parts but require extensive cleaining from the debris generated from shooting. Properly cleaning a gun like in game, can easily take an hour a day, per gun to clean and maintain, simply due to the sheer number of moving parts in it. A bow also has less volume than most rifles consisting of the body, maybe some cams, and the bowstring. My bow, which is hunting grade, weighs 1/5 of what my Dad's .308 rifle does, even kitted out fully with stabilizers, silencers (which completely remove the twang of the bowstring, making the weapon absolutely silent), it would not even be half the weight of the rifle while empty and unadorned. Modern arrows do take more material to make than a cartridge, but do not have any actual material requirements for most of their construction, only the heads have to made to any exacting material standards (which considering we don't have to buy bullets, implies a manufacturing base that could make the heads just as easily as the bullets themselves so it's a non-factor).

Finally the bow never needed a meaningful "accuracy to speed ratio", as part of skilled archery is killing the target in a single shot or massed fire formations. You are right, the refire rate on a bow is much slower than a gun, and bow hunters never really had another chance if they missed the first shot, but they trained to hit vital areas, they altered the heads to bleed out the target as it ran, they made the one shot they did have as lethal as possible with poisons. When you only need one shot to kill, "speed" is a meaningless statistic.

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Your post was centered around ninja being quiet and not using rifles and explosions, which wasn't always the case. Only Hollywood and video games did that.

Go ahead, pick out one piece and conveniently ignore the rest again.

Don't make this into an argument. You picked out one piece of my post, so I picked out the same in your post. Ninjas WERE mercenaries, but they were also assassins and spies. They didn't make alot of noise unless they needed to. It's as simple as that - "Hollywood" or real life.

Let's look at this game for example. Notice how all the missions except for Exterminate and Defense would normally require some sort of subterfuge? "Spy" has you aquiring intelligence. "Assassination" would typically be exactly that - sneaking into an area and assassinating someone. Typically you want to be AS QUIET AS POSSIBLE during such missions; regardless of it being a video game or a real life mission.

Now stop being so damned argumentative - we actually agree on the new bow weapon.

Edited by SoulEchelon

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I picked out one piece? No...I didn't. You picked out one word. I think you need to calm down, I'm not making an argument. You're even typing much more than I am.

Don't look so deeply into what I said, I was only saiyan. You didn't even have anything specific like "roles" or "tasks" until now, which just made it look silly initially. You simply said it didn't make sense for them to use guns and explosives, I said that they actually did use firearms and explosives. Nothing more, nothing less.

Edited by FatalX7

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I picked out one piece? No...I didn't. You picked out one word. I think you need to calm down, I'm not making an argument. You're even typing much more than I am.

Don't look so deeply into what I said, I was only saiyan. You didn't even have anything specific like "roles" or "tasks" until now, which just made it look silly initially. Ninja do whatever, nothing more, nothing less.

Guys, seriously. Cut it out. This isn't advancing the discussion on Banshee or the bow weapon. If you don't have anything novel to add, then please don't pursue the arguement.

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Guys, seriously. Cut it out. This isn't advancing the discussion on Banshee or the bow weapon. If you don't have anything novel to add, then please don't pursue the arguement.

You're right. I'll head back on topic.

As I was trying to say earlier - the Bow is definitely a great addition to this game - especially for actually being "ninja"-like during the missions. Though we don't know yet just how silent this weapon is and how the new enemy alert system will work, I'm willing to bet that DE is making this weapon to help start off a series of "sneaky" weapons. Wouldn't be surprised if we see some sort of "stun gun" in the future.

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Guys, seriously. Cut it out. This isn't advancing the discussion on Banshee or the bow weapon. If you don't have anything novel to add, then please don't pursue the arguement.

You cut it out. We're talking about bows and ninjas, it's pretty darn mild. I was clarifying and ending it with that post, but thanks for replying to it. happy-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862507

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You cut it out. We're talking about bows and ninjas, it's pretty darn mild. I was clarifying and ending it with that post, but thanks for replying to it. happy-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862507

I just wanted to try and guide the conversation away from arguing historical accuracy of ninjas in lieu of discussing what the new frames and the new weapon can do for the game's future.

*In Heavy's voice* Mebbe...*sniffle* Mebbe...

EDIT: That dancing cat guy is adorable.

Edited by LordofTibera

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Dat as... wait... THAT BOW!!!

Holy mother does this looks way cooler then Saryn!... That and we now have a 6/6 Male/Female ratio in this game, awesome!

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