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Update 7 - "stormbringer"


[DE]Steve
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Please excuse me while I quote myself. This was in response to a thread talking about the credit cost to upgrade mods.

They made progression actually progression instead of going from level 0 mook with nothing but a pea shooter and brass balls to level 30 destroyer of worlds with planet-cracking mods in two days.

They have also re-balanced the system. Your warframe will ultimately be weaker than it was before, because your abilities are now slotted mods that consume a slot and warframe energy, meaning you have to choose between using abilities or having more than 4 stats on your warframe increased. If you want above base-level shields and health, that's two modslots gone already just from that, leaving only two left for things like power max, sprint speed, stamina max, etc.

However, your weapons are going to end up vastly more powerful than they used to be, because they now all have 8 mod slots and in many cases you can get things to much higher values than before. 60% frost damage used to take three mod slots to do; now it takes one, and you still have 7 left to increase your base damage, fire rate, crit strike, crit damage, magazine size, and reload speed, leaving you another slot to do whatever you want with while still increasing ALL the base stats you could with the previous tree and in higher values than before.

The decision to make warframe powers on the same card system as mods was the only design flaw in this. I think having warframe powers as cards is a good idea because it opens up the potential to add powers to existing warframes without upsetting game balance, but I would have put them in a separate deck of cards from passive stat increases personally because there are simply too many passive increases to cover with only 4 slots. They need to put powers on a different deck or give your warframe more mod slots so that you can actually increase both your vital statistics and auxiliary statistics instead of having to choose.

Adding to my last statement, there's 16 different stats I can think of off the top of my head on a Warframe that you can increase; HP, Shield Capacity, and arguably Power Max being three that are more or less vital. The way I see it, Warframes should have at least 10 mod slots; 4 for powers, 3 for vital statistics, and 3 for auxiliary statictics. Realistically, you could probably go for 12 total slots to cover abilities + 8 out of the 16 warframe statistics you have avaliable to you. You still have to make sacrifices and choose what you want to increase and want to leave at base, but now you aren't having to sacrifice your HP just because you want to run fast.

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The old system was garbage .It didn't bring uniquness or nothing at all besides putting mods but everyone was the same now they have a solid fondation to work and and polish.Beta is beta

lol, uniqueness.

the old system allowed builds, vertical power gain as you leveled.

new system is random based and gear dependant to the point of making lvl 30 no mod warframes and weapons on par with lvl 1s, unique alright.

oh right, its beta.

lol.-

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If you are starting from level 1, you will still have a vertical power gain because you will be gaining and upgrading mods as you level.

It only seems like this is no longer the case because you are coming in at level 30 with no mods because the system was changed. If you were to jump onto an unranked frame and start playing the game like you would if you were a new player I can almost garuntee you would not notice much of a difference compared to how it was when you first started this game.

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If you are starting from level 1, you will still have a vertical power gain because you will be gaining and upgrading mods as you level.

It only seems like this is no longer the case because you are coming in at level 30 with no mods because the system was changed. If you were to jump onto an unranked frame and start playing the game like you would if you were a new player I can almost garuntee you would not notice much of a difference compared to how it was when you first started this game.

too bad i notice the difference then.

too bad that i leveled more than 6 warframes and i dont know how many weapons to max level to be greeted with this 'new system' that works purely around the chance to get the mod you want/need by doing low level missions over and over again.

that is not progression, that RNG crap, grindy to the point of korean mmos, and it feels like the game is pointing to the plat market at everything you try to acomplish.-

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I think the update is fine and I like the new system but I am unable to play now because of the extreme change in the Xbox control map and there is no way to change the key-bindings on it. You can not even disable it and use Xpadder. I do not have enough room on my desk to play with mouse and keyboard and would hate to see how it plays on my laptop now because using a touch pad would be insta death at some points.

Update: Thanks for the quick fix in patch 7.1

Edited by JMan31337
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too bad i notice the difference then.

too bad that i leveled more than 6 warframes and i dont know how many weapons to max level to be greeted with this 'new system' that works purely around the chance to get the mod you want/need by doing low level missions over and over again.

that is not progression, that RNG crap, grindy to the point of korean mmos, and it feels like the game is pointing to the plat market at everything you try to acomplish.-

It's a new system put in place for future players and/or people who take the optional reset. This is a beta for a reason, and it should be expected that things are going to be wonky. This new system paves the way for polishing and features that will benefit the game in the future and for all the new players it will get on official open beta and RC.

I can guarantee you that no matter what changes they made to this mod system, you and every one else would still be complaining because you already had your stuff maxed out. What do you honestly expect?

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dev please read

what update 7 did was,

make this a free to play, hard to play.

let me explain,. a new player comes in

he first needs to lvl up to 30. find mods than finds Fusions.... than find the money needed to rank them up (2.0 mils) find weapons find weapons items to build, then find BP, than find money, then find upgrades, than build those upgrades, and then wait to build all weapons

just to get to a lvl that was around .......10?

they need some major fixing.... they made this game into one hell of a grand.

i say,

have a skill tree system that boost base states for weapons and frames.(lvl 30 frame should be more powerful than 1)

Ranking up mods dont take money.

putting mods on takes money

and keep the card system.

Edited by RaulO4
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Yeah I just popped my bow out of the foundry and imho it's great fun!

The guy a few pages back who said "omg it's just a rifle" I really don't know what he was expecting: it looks like a bow, sounds like a bow, shoots a projectile, the projectile arcs down in flight, the weapon has a draw time, you can hold your shot... i dunno, seems like a pretty complete videogame bow to me.

And @Alan: I like the new system but 1 or 2 hotfixes ago it was unfeasible to even test it because of the credit cost of fusion.

I think I said a way back that I would not regret my wasted million+ creds if they hotfixed the cost down to something reasonable; they seem to have done that, and I am a regret-free zone~

There are obviously still problems with it, biggest being that (imho) you can't purchase random common mods for credits and the unintuitive (but smart, I would hasten to add) fusion values of our old mods.

Still, it's been pretty sad how people have reacted imho. It's perfectly possible to make it clear how displeased you are, without blowing your lid and being melodramatic.

Like, if people are angry about something that matters, racism for a random example, then imho it is very important to listen to their arguments and not just react to their tone. That doesn't apply when it's something as minor as this. So you're &!$$ed off about the changes to your videogame; well, however you like the game, it's damn certain it is not as important to you as it is to the devs. Keep your goddamned hair on and give some feedback, or just chill out and walk away from the game for a while.

What time have even the top 10 ranking players spent on this, compared to what the dev team have?

Do you think their continued employment (in a job they actually personally care about, with some measure of self-direction and creative freedom) might just maybe be as important to them as your silly-hat-wearing cat-suited space ninja game is to us?

Grow the hell up and let the poor bastards a) get some sleep, b) collect what feedback is not given whilst foaming at the mouth, c) work out what needs fixing most urgently, and then d) fix it

Agreed

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This, this, so much this. Aside from the credit cost, Mod2.0 is actually fun to figure out.

+1 Agree 110% The more you play with the more awesomer-er-er-er it becomes. I don't have to find a half-dozen speed mods? I canj just find one and fuse the sh* out of it.

Edited by RawGritz
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It's a new system put in place for future players and/or people who take the optional reset. This is a beta for a reason, and it should be expected that things are going to be wonky. This new system paves the way for polishing and features that will benefit the game in the future and for all the new players it will get on official open beta and RC.

I can guarantee you that no matter what changes they made to this mod system, you and every one else would still be complaining because you already had your stuff maxed out. What do you honestly expect?

i keep hearing this 'beta' argument, srsly? lol.-

what do i expect? i expect the game to not be so much of a $&*&*#(%& grindfest.

but im sure you believe that a lvl 30 wf dying to lvl 1s is balanced, as is spending an unholy ammount of credits just to max out a single warframe, right?

oh, its beta, right.

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dev please read

what update 7 did was,

make this a free to play, hard to play.

let me explain,. a new player comes in

he first needs to lvl up to 30. find mods than finds Fusions.... than find the money needed to rank them up (2.0 mils) find weapons find weapons items to build, then find BP, than find money, then find upgrades, than build those upgrades, and then wait to build all weapons

just to get to a lvl that was around .......10?

they need some major fixing.... they made this game into one hell of a grand.

i say,

have a skill tree system that boost base states for weapons and frames.(lvl 30 frame should be more powerful than 1)

Ranking up mods dont take money.

putting mods on takes money

and keep the card system.

New players have it the easiest. They won't have Fusion Cores confusing them. They can also Fuse more efficiently with other mods. Fusion Core fusing cost so much.

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Been playing few missions now. Aside aside few bugs, I really like the imprvements so far

- Prompts on stelth/insta-kills and various things. It's small enough to not get obstructive. But clear enough to show me when I can activate usable things (especially with elevator-panels and data-bags).

- Yesh! "curb-stomping" with Furax is simply satifying. And now knocking down mobs is actually more useful.

- I really, really like the new tileset/snow-station-map. It brings nice variation.

- I've yet to get my first sentinel. But after around 50-missions (each with around 2K-credits paycehck), I should be able to get my first one. Really eager to get one.

- I like the weapon-tweakings for initial stats; they actually feel much better instead of being pea-shooters right from the beginning. And with the upgrades, they're going to be even devastating. In other words, they have more punch right form the beginning (visually and stat-wise).

- This is mainly "mod"-related, but yesh! I can finally leave out abilities I don't want to use (right now), so I don't accidetally use wrong abilities anymore.

My thoughs of the update so far.

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i keep hearing this 'beta' argument, srsly? lol.-

what do i expect? i expect the game to not be so much of a $&*&*#(%& grindfest.

but im sure you believe that a lvl 30 wf dying to lvl 1s is balanced, as is spending an unholy ammount of credits just to max out a single warframe, right?

oh, its beta, right.

You hear the beta argument because it is a legitimate argument. All of you who come into a closed or open beta under the illusion that it's a free ride really need to learn a thing or two about the gaming industry. Beta's were introduced because companies found out early on that you can get free testing for your game by allowing players to do it for you. What you are agreeing to, by participating in the beta, is for the game to change in any way, shape, or form, at any time. Until the game is in Release Candidate, you really have no excuse to complain about changes.

The game was also a grindfest before this. What did you call it before? I sure as hell wasn't getting all the amazing RNG you got before this update, because my mods were pretty crap.

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i keep hearing this 'beta' argument, srsly? lol.-

what do i expect? i expect the game to not be so much of a $&*&*#(%& grindfest.

but im sure you believe that a lvl 30 wf dying to lvl 1s is balanced, as is spending an unholy ammount of credits just to max out a single warframe, right?

oh, its beta, right.

It's all about testing what mechanics and features work and which do not. So yes... It's beta.

But if you are level 30 then you are not lvl 1. At lvl 30 you have a mod capacity of 30. At level 1 you have a mod capacity of 1. If you are lvl 30 and you have a potato on your warframe, then you have a mod capacity of 60.

Edited by RawGritz
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too bad i notice the difference then.

too bad that i leveled more than 6 warframes and i dont know how many weapons to max level to be greeted with this 'new system' that works purely around the chance to get the mod you want/need by doing low level missions over and over again.

that is not progression, that RNG crap, grindy to the point of korean mmos, and it feels like the game is pointing to the plat market at everything you try to acomplish.-

... If you are coming in as a new player, that is: A player who does not have any warframes or equipment already leveled, you will get the same sense of progression as a tree would because you have to kill lots of things to get to level 30, and in killing lots of things you will find lots of mods. A lot of the closed beta players are complaining about having 20, 30, 80 pages of mods that are now nothing but fusion fuel. Imagine if you had started after this update hit and got 20 - 80 pages of mods? You probably wouldn't give a sh!t anymore because you would have everything you could possibly ever want or need.

You aren't complaining about the system. Stop trying to pass it off as that. You're angry that you did a lot of work to build up all your warframes to be strong, and all that was thrown out the window because the devs want to try something different. That is fine. Nobody is going to fault you for being angry that the work you did has been undone. However, stop trying to pass it off as the new system being bad. You don't know if it's bad; you haven't even tried it yet.

Edited by Earthworm_Jim
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... If you are coming in as a new player, that is: A player who does not have any warframes or equipment already leveled, you will get the same sense of progression as a tree would because you have to kill lots of things to get to level 30, and in killing lots of things you will find lots of mods. A lot of the closed beta players are complaining about having 20, 30, 80 pages of mods that are now nothing but fusion fuel. Imagine if you had started after this update hit and got 20 - 80 pages of mods? You probably wouldn't give a sh!t anymore because you would have everything you could possibly ever want or need.

You aren't complaining about the system. Stop trying to pass it off as that. You're angry that you did a lot of work to build up all your warframes to be strong, and all that was thrown out the window because the devs want to try something different. That is fine. Nobody is going to fault you for being angry that the work you did has been undone. However, stop trying to pass it off as the new system being bad. You don't know if it's bad; you haven't even tried it yet.

Well said, Jim!!! +10

That's exactly it. No one can truly say that the system will not work just yet. Folks are &!$$ed because they felt ownership for their time spent. But that is a Y.P. Your problem for not understanding the concept of testing, breaking, rinsing and building anew for us to test again.

Edited by RawGritz
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You hear the beta argument because it is a legitimate argument. All of you who come into a closed or open beta under the illusion that it's a free ride really need to learn a thing or two about the gaming industry. Beta's were introduced because companies found out early on that you can get free testing for your game by allowing players to do it for you. What you are agreeing to, by participating in the beta, is for the game to change in any way, shape, or form, at any time. Until the game is in Release Candidate, you really have no excuse to complain about changes.

The game was also a grindfest before this. What did you call it before? I sure as hell wasn't getting all the amazing RNG you got before this update, because my mods were pretty crap.

Then they shouldn't even have a cash shop right now. The second you monetize the game is the second that excuse stops existing. Founders bonuses are cool but they're actually trying to get players to spend money on a 'beta'. He spent $250 to be on the DC and I see absolutely no problem with him complaining about a game he's supporting with his money.

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Then they shouldn't even have a cash shop right now. The second you monetize the game is the second that excuse stops existing. Founders bonuses are cool but they're actually trying to get players to spend money on a 'beta'. He spent $250 to be on the DC and I see absolutely no problem with him complaining about a game he's supporting with his money.

This is a completely different argument. Having a cash shop in a beta has been an issue for a while now, and is still the subject of debate among a lot of gamers and companies. Obviously in some cases it works, and in others (warhammer heroes anyone?) it doesn't. Do I completely agree with it? No, in fact I don't. Like I said however, that is a subject for another argument.

It does not, however, have any bearing on what a beta actually is. When you give money during a beta or even alpha progress, you are still in theory bound by the beta agreement. May you ask for a refund? By some laws, yeah you can. However, the money you are giving is deemed as a donation and support of the game, and not indicitive of the final product. This is a testing phase, any money you throw at the game is your own priority.

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Then they shouldn't even have a cash shop right now. The second you monetize the game is the second that excuse stops existing. Founders bonuses are cool but they're actually trying to get players to spend money on a 'beta'. He spent $250 to be on the DC and I see absolutely no problem with him complaining about a game he's supporting with his money.

Cash shop also has to be tested before they launch. What doesn't have to happen is you don't have to spend a dime. He spent $250 on a game to support the developer, which griping without offering constructive critiques does not do. $250 does not buy you hundred of dollar of whine time.

Edited by RawGritz
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I just want to ask why?! Why did you change this game so much and make all of the play time and being a founder worthless? This is not the game that I supported. This update destoryed the game for me and I want my money back!! I am not supporting a game company that bait and switchs people with one thing then completely changes everything that I loved about this game, making it so confusing, so grinding and making all the time played from being a founder worthless. Worst update I have ever seen in any game to date. Thank you for killing this game for me.

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You clearly have no idea who programmers are if you think we're about to get off our lazy asses and go out to buy a shirt just because it lost a button.

Also, you might want to say C++. C# isn't nearly as great as you'd like to think it is.

*Lazy Hi5*

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