I Can't Get My Friends Into The Game. Here's Why.

[Sidathe]

I concur with your points, although #4 has irked me in particular.

 

 

I wouldn't say being called 'bro' or 'dude' is at all derogatory or insulting. As others have mentioned, it's mostly a term of endearment or just for general use. That said, my experiences with Warframe have shown considerably more sexism and hostile attitudes from players than any other title I've encountered, above and beyond the usual "omg no girls on the internet" and "gb2kitchen" crap that is rather pathetically deemed standard.

 

I don't think this is DE's problem, and perhaps I've just been hitting the bad spots, but this stuff quickly puts a bad taste in my mouth. It's a part of why I've finally packed away Warframe after several hundred hours.

Which Region are you in? Region US-East tends to get a little derp between 8 PM and 3 AM.

[DJ_Redwire]

I concur with your points, although #4 has irked me in particular.

 

 

I wouldn't say being called 'bro' or 'dude' is at all derogatory or insulting. As others have mentioned, it's mostly a term of endearment or just for general use. That said, my experiences with Warframe have shown considerably more sexism and hostile attitudes from players than any other title I've encountered, above and beyond the usual "omg no girls on the internet" and "gb2kitchen" crap that is rather pathetically deemed standard.

 

And yeah see, I almost want to retract my comment about #4 because I've yet to encounter this issue in my 400 hours on Warframe, so I really don't even think I should have an opinion on it. I don't doubt that people experience this issue from day-to-day, but I haven't even noticed it once. Then again I've never hung out in Region so maybe that's why. :P

[Temporary]

1. The entire control system is confusing and poorly explained by the tutorial

2. Early equipment is terrible and has only been nerfed since

3. Players, especially in random matchups, say absolutely nothing 90% of the time.

4. Poor representation in characters; playerbase

Sorry for not quoting all of it, it was just too damn big and sorry for my wall of text.

 

1) I like many others who play have had absolutely no issues picking it up and running with it (never bothered with the tutorial) whether that means we’re more skilled or we learn faster than your friends is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is there is information readily available for you to learn how to play so if you choose not to use what's at hand it’s hardly DE’s fault that they didn’t coddle everyone and lets be fair if you get a game explaining every extraneous detail or you have popups for how to do stuff you tend to get annoyed quickly and end up not playing as a result. I still shudder when I think about navi saying "hey listen" & that bloody owl popping up or doing stupid driving tests in gran turismo...

 

2) Name any games like this you’ve played where the starting gear doesn’t utterly suck or is still viable beyond the 1^st few levels. It’s almost a given in any game that anything you start with will need to be replaced or upgraded as soon as possible so I'm struggling to understand why this is even an issue.

 

3) This argument seems to be more about players playing how they want instead of conforming to how you think they should play and less about just not speaking during missions.

For starters most people will only speak when spoken to so piping up in chat will significantly increase your social interaction not to mention playing with IRL friends or joining a guild. Teamwork is really only required on defense/survival maps, beyond that the occasional time where you bit off more than you could chew, died and need a revive or when you have a 2 person door, both of which are blindingly obvious and most people oblige.

 

4) This argument always amuses me, pulling the racial card when something fictional “discriminates” against a particular race is a joke, do we need to start having people lobbying for putting the mixed races of the world into games so we don’t offend people? Whilst we’re at it let’s throw religion in there as well as sexual orientation just so we can give everyone a cause to complain about not being represented; or subsequently would you prefer the ultimate insult and have them write into the lore that all or a combination of Asians/Blacks/Hispanics/Whites etc. were wiped out by X faction or Y disease? If any of this seems completely and utterly stupid or irrational, it’s because it is.

What I’m more curious about is how this actually affects people who belong to a minority. Does it keep them up at night, cause mental or physical anguish; make them afraid of other races? or is it just something they dislike and feel the need to complain about? This argument is the equivalent of white people complaining that non-white players make up the majority of the NBA, the reason why this never comes up is because we don't care and we enjoy it for what it is without bias because it is supposed to be fun. Sorry if you find this offensive, I'm not racist I just don't understand or can't fathom why it's an issue.

All players are faceless/genderless individuals sitting behind a monitor so if you for whatever reason choose to either flat out reveal or hint towards info regarding yourself you're basically opening up Pandora's box and letting the nasty little opinionated trolls out to wreak havoc; not that this is any excuse or an invitation for them to do so but because of the anonymity associated with sitting behind a monitor some people choose to be asshats. Given the circumstances if you placed the same individual infront of the person they were insulting the little angel on their shoulder would up and $#*(@ slap them into keeping their stupid mouth shut. To quote Jubei: The sky is the sky everywhere you go and people are people.

[Psroij]

I hope DE does not listen to point #4. Once Social Justice Warrior crap infests a game it becomes a toxic environment where the developer cannot win, and neither can the players.

 

Seriously, I cannot believe someone would bring up that there are not enough minorities to blast into bloody chunks. What is a prominent complaint about Modern Military Shooters? That all the enemies are not all heterosexual white males —ignoring that in most of those games the enemy is almost exclusively Russian, and rarely South/Central American or Asian. Feature 1 level with a Middle Eastern or African enemy and suddenly the equality brigade is protesting that it is unfair stereotypical representation. If DE starts adding in enemies with darker skin shades it is a guarantee that suddenly groups (almost certainly comprised mostly of white people) will start criticizing them for "stereotyping minorities as the bad guys."

 

And who actually cares what they look like anyways? 99% of the enemies have full face masks and sexual characteristic disguising armor, are robots, or are mutated beasts that barely even resemble the humans they once were, and all exist solely to die.

 

And if you are going to complain about the Warframes, then give me a break. For all anyone knows they are protoplasmic piles of goo inside the suits, and how the suits look is because when someone thought of the Frame's name that is what popped up in their head (which is probably an accurate descriptor for how the lead artist largely came up with the rough designs). The Tenno might not even qualify as human, much less an ethnicity, anymore, so whining about racial representation is beyond asinine.

 

And don't go mentioning how the suits look too feminine. I would agree the female body shapes are all too similar without enough variety, but it is a guarantee that if DE purposefully starts trying to make the female frames look unattractive —though them being sexually attractive at all is debatable in the first place, but different fetishes for the masses— that holy hell will be raised by both men and women. Point #4 is a testament to that, as apparently just making the female Frame's have obvious female sexual characteristics (breasts and hips) is too "Cishet" as the Frame's have absolutely no other sexualized aspects. And yet, if DE had clearly made all the Tenno androgynous with absolutely zero sexual characteristics then the complaint would be that there are no female Frames. DE would not be able to win for trying.

 

Further on point 4, who the hell cares what other players think? Seriously, are people trying to advocate thought crime because some group of the community want sexier frames? Let them want that all the live long day! It's almost like people are entitled to their thoughts! And if you like Alad then like Alad. No one who matters cares. No one who doesn't matter cares, either. Not everyone has to have the same opinion, nor should everyone. Someone thinks you are weird for finding Alad attractive? Big deal. Go ahead and find them weird for finding Saryn attractive. It does not matter, it affects both your lives in such a negligible way.

 

No one cares who is and who isn't a girl, by the way. The only reason to even bring that up is to either get positive attention for it, or some kind of sympathy/pity card. The point of "There are no girls on the internet," is that just because one is/claims they are female they get no special privilege; anyone can claim they are anything on the internet.

 

LostAlone, on 27 Dec 2013 - 9:47 PM, said:

The people who make XboxLive etc notorious for yelling at people yell at everyone. They are equal opportunity jerks. The stuff I've heard said to women is especially posionous, but they don't just shout at women. They're equal opportunity jerkwads who think that very teenage kind of shock-crap is funny. 

As a male gamer I have been called every sexual, physical, and general insult that exists. I am confident the overwhelming majority of male gamers can say the same. Even had death threats made against me. I am sure most other male gamers can say the same for that as well. Anecdotally I would say the vitriol that female gamers put up with is not even a fraction of what male gamers put up with, but the difference is that male gamers get over it because no one cares. No one is going to run to the defense of a male because someone else (male or female) called them a <expletive deleted> and a <expletive deleted> who deserves to die in a horrible fashion.

 

A man insults a man and it is properly looked on as, "Sticks and stones." A man insults a woman and suddenly she is a delicate flower that needs protecting, and all speech by men needs to be curbed. Maybe I have too much respect for women by thinking they are adults fully capable of handling trash talk in a competitive environment.

[Brahmastra]

I have to agree.

I tried to get my friends into the game, basically they downloaded it, played it for 2 hours then never logged on again.

Yet their impression of the game was that everything was "awesome".

They loved all the tilesets, warframes, weapons but it just didn't click for some reason.

[Arlayn]

wait wait wait.... you didn't know... you get money... for doing missions? I... I am sorry... give me a moment I need to go in this corner and like lean on the wall... While I go through my memory trying to think of ONE GAME that doesn't pay you for doing missions.

Edited December 28, 2013 by Arlayn

[DJ_Redwire]

wait wait wait.... you didn't know... you get money... for doing missions? I... I am sorry... give me a moment I need to go in this corner and like lean on the wall... While I go through my memory trying to think of ONE GAME that doesn't pay you for doing missions.

 

The occasional bugged Void where there was no credit reward at the end? Other than that I got nothin'

[Arlayn]

The occasional bugged Void where there was no credit reward at the end? Other than that I got nothin'

there was a bug like that?! o.O

[DJ_Redwire]

there was a bug like that?! o.O

 

Unfortunately yes. 

[Brasten]

I do think that an optional set of "VR Missions" or something similar need to be available to address specific mechanics. Gun play, damage, mod fusing, certain movement, types of enemies, Codex scanning, etc. And then have someone from DE run through these and post captured video on their webpage. The game is still truly in beta, but it now has a huge player base and could use some help.

....

Playerbase:

- There's really no fixing it. It's the internet. &^%holes are everywhere, but there are still a lot of good people I've played with.

- To be blunt, I'm really surprised that this particular game format has this much teamwork.

In many cases, until you have to explain a system or mechanic to someone totally unconnected to it do you as designer (of anything) really have to come face to face with it. One reason I would like DE to put the time into doing and redoing the tutorials (even in a Beta stage) is because it WILL force them to sit and look at each mechanic in the game, how it is conveyed, and if actually has a function.

As to player communication... Hey, IMO Valve did it right with Portal 2. The use of quick access non-verbal colored icon markers can do wonders for getting communication going. Same with "Voice" commands in things like Hi-Rez games OR the early Unreal Tournament games. Go figure something people were doing back in the early 2000s is still a good idea, and when they were often in the same 'roomish' LAN area and could literally yell at each other.

[biggles1y3]

Let's not rant about genders k? No one even wants to read a page full of walls of text.

 

As for the damage types, as long as you just put some damage mods in your gun you'll be good until the high level missions. At that point you're not really new and won't mind reading more on damage types. A lot of the game is ranking up new equipment so you can take as long as you like to pick up on armor/damage types.

 

1. Watching "Let's Plays" of Warframe on youtube is what got me interested enough to download the game so I can't comment on the learning curve.

2. FPS games let you right into the best gear (example CSS), MMO games on the other hand require gear progression the most part. Can cause confusion.

3. If the mission is easy/low level (most of the game, there isn't even real end-game yet) then it doesn't 'require' or encourage communication. Yep sucks, perhaps the change to isolating new players from vets on mercury has helped idk.

4. Maybe there will be more diversity as the game develops and the team gets more people and of course if the players request it.

 

 

[yggdrazzle]

#4) Game of Frames?

[Kartumterek]

so confuzzled about the whole drummed up gender issue... doesnt DE release frames in an alternating male/female frame basis? Isnt LOTUS a female? Arent the Grineer ruled by women, and have female troops? what about DERebecca and DEMegan? The only slight that females HAD (armor rating lower than males, by 25, on that lovely Saryn) got totally removed by the whopping 300 on Valk.

 

Warframe has a surprising amount of older, wiser, richer and mature gamers. So we dont have as many immatures running around from what I have seen. Dont make issues where they dont exist. This game couldnt be anymore gender balanced if they tried. As far as underagers smack talking in local, not really a DE problem.

 

And for whomever brought up EVE Online... yea. Try playing THAT game and then complain of a learning curve lol... (btw 5 and 1/2 years, over 110m SP, Gallente all the way baby)

[KinkyHamster]

Maybe your friends aren't really your friends and don't want another channel for you to bother them? 

[FlyDungas]

Just throwin this out there, you shouldn't tell online people that you do not know your gender... especially if there is no reason for it like in this game. Its like going to Russia with a yamaka on. Lonely desperate men that are incapable of speaking to women like people find solace in the internet especially video games.

[KinkyHamster]

Just throwin this out there, you shouldn't tell online people that you do not know your gender... especially if there is no reason for it like in this game. Its like going to Russia with a yamaka on. Lonely desperate men that are incapable of speaking to women like people find solace in the internet especially video games.

This dude's post was harsher than mine.

Well played, m'boy.

Well played indeed. 

[FlyDungas]

I didn't think it was harsh, its just kind of like painting a target on yourself. There are things I wouldn't reveal about myself in an anonymous internet setting where inclined individuals will be free to harass me. There's no reason to especially in a game. We will never beat the trolls and bigots, not without ruining the whole internet.

[KinkyHamster]

I didn't think it was harsh, its just kind of like painting a target on yourself. There are things I wouldn't reveal about myself in an anonymous internet setting where inclined individuals will be free to harass me. There's no reason to especially in a game. We will never beat the trolls and bigots, not without ruining the whole internet.

I'm a big believer in Poe's law.

 

I like to think we're all trolls that think everyone else out there is a bigot.

 

We end up becoming the people we intend on satirizing. 

[Ttariel]

I cant say im a pro or anything in this game, but i did notice many of the points.

 

The tutorial only points out the most basic stuff.

 

-WASD to move

-Space to jump

-Left mouse button to fire your weapon

-Bullets hurt people

-If you kill somebody they die

-Water is wet

 

But the whole point of faster movement/mods/mastery etc. i looked up myself and got infos from friendly people sometimes.

 

 

The starting weapons are terrible and besides getting them to 30 there is no reason to keep them thats true.

Still i think its ok this way as it makes getting your first real weapon so much better and many first tier weapons are rather easy to build.

 

The look of frames is another thing with the whole Male/Female design.

The design of the frames is one of the limited ways to give them character and the males have it.

 

-Rhino is this huge guy where you dont even have to read his wikipage to know he won the stomping contest of 2011 against Rick James

-Volt is this athletic speedy guy rather small and you get the feeling " i think he takes space-crack for a living"

 

 

The female frames, yes of course there are some standing points like tablehead banshee,

but the only somewhat difference you could talk about is ember with a big point-out on the hips which is the same thing just with a hat.

[Arlayn]

 

-Water is wet

 

wait what? Lotus told you that?

[spacedkadet]

Whilst i kinda agree with the OP all i keep seeing is MMO MMO MMO

 

MMO= MASSIVE multiplayer online.

 

4 players on one server does not = MASSIVE.

 

Its a TPS co-op. not a damn MMO.

[BadPoetry]

If I skipped your post, my bad, its a lot to read and respond to and I think I hit the majority of appropriate responses just from these.

 

Whitewash of characters:

- Tenno = unknown race

- Infested = mutants

- Grineer = a mush of all races of earth that have been cloned. No unique character traits.

- Corpus = the only "human" race seen. And realistically, they are the bad guys. Look at Alad V. He is a white, high pitched voice, "frilly" aristocrat. Why wouldn't he be white (I say this as the czars, pre-revolution French, Spainish royalty, etc.) have been.

I think that aspect is overblown, but should DE ever reveal the Tenno underneath the suits, it would be well within character to show them as "the people" and a wide mix of races.

 

I don't want to fob off the other points you made because they're good, but to focus on this one I just made a post about what I mean elsewhere. "Whitewash" wasn't the intended problem but I guess it applies, right now, whether intentional or not. I'm hoping they intend to switch things up in time.

 

...But uh, are you implying that bad guys should be white? Because considering everyone's been telling me how racist I'm being for bringing this up, that's actually kind of stereotyped and terrible. I'm hoping that was really bad wording in an otherwise well put response. It's also not even entirely relevant. I'd like not to have this kind of discussion muddy the actual debate.

 

 

I've got to tell... If you start the game by dumping $30 on it all those initial issues go away. Maybe this is DE intention, really. An argument can be made that that assumes that player already knows what kind of game it is. They should probably rework some of the first missions on Mercury to show off game to people who come in blind.

I do agree it's hard to get people into it.

 

Yeah this is actually the problem. And while I'm sorry I'm not quoting the other post on this cause my CTRL+V keys are wearing down, I don't really agree that the MK1 Braton will get you far, but the Braton will. Except the Braton isn't directly upgraded from the MK1 for some reason, its separately created and purchased, as is Boltor. I have no idea why. Lato has two Aklato, Bolto and Akbolto as genuinely decent upgrades that lead into each other as a good intro to other options. It's standard MMO fare to ease people into equipment options from starting gear, but instead its pushed that you should pick something cool blindly for cash. I'm not against premium content, but that's a bit too much.

 

 

Not to ignore the rest of your post, but i have to agree with the OP about this specific point. While i'm a manly man that chops down trees with the forehead and hunts brontosaurus for dinner, i wouldn't mind be called a lady. I wouldn't mind anything, actually. However we cannot tell people what they can and can't be offended by. I can see why some women would mind being called "bro". Hell, even some men don't like to be called that.

 

Still i believe that this is a teensy bit off-topic so i'll just leave it at that :P

 

I'm not personally fond of it but I feel like that's setting myself up for "HA, HA, SEE?? LOOK YOU'RE JUST COMPLAINING BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE IT. GET OVER IT." I want to repeat that this is echoing what's been said by others on and off this forum. I don't have to personally agree as long as I don't disagree. That's kind of the thing about discussions as a community: accepting others have differing ideas and tastes, and as long as they don't run against your own there's not really a reason to take up the defence. But for that here's an actual quote from the thread to prove the point.

 

 

I concur with your points, although #4 has irked me in particular.

 

 

I wouldn't say being called 'bro' or 'dude' is at all derogatory or insulting. As others have mentioned, it's mostly a term of endearment or just for general use. That said, my experiences with Warframe have shown considerably more sexism and hostile attitudes from players than any other title I've encountered, above and beyond the usual "omg no girls on the internet" and "gb2kitchen" crap that is rather pathetically deemed standard.

 

I don't think this is DE's problem, and perhaps I've just been hitting the bad spots, but this stuff quickly puts a bad taste in my mouth. It's a part of why I've finally packed away Warframe after several hundred hours.

 

 

Gamer culture in general can be more genuinely offensive and often misogynist than it realises, even if a lot is tongue in cheek. Please be mindful that some people just aren't the same as you and have different levels of comfort. Being in the majority is just more reason to keep open to criticisms and complaints made by the minority or else nothing will change. I say this because any argument otherwise around this topic has so far reeked of "if it doesn't inconvenience me personally then it doesn't matter." At the end of the day if someone dislikes being called something, etc., then there's not really any reason if you have respect for them to deny it. I've seen denials and thats the part that worries me more than everyone throwing around "bro" assumingly. Sexism in the game itself is another kettle of fish and I'm not linking it in here.

 

 

wait wait wait.... you didn't know... you get money... for doing missions? I... I am sorry... give me a moment I need to go in this corner and like lean on the wall... While I go through my memory trying to think of ONE GAME that doesn't pay you for doing missions.

 

I had an idea but I didn't know what the point of the mission was in the larger sense beyond "someone is telling me to do something". Apparently its just money. Cool. If you're confusing lack of motivation with lack of awareness of how a game works then okay, I suppose I wrote my point out less than crystal clear.

 

 

As to player communication... Hey, IMO Valve did it right with Portal 2. The use of quick access non-verbal colored icon markers can do wonders for getting communication going. Same with "Voice" commands in things like Hi-Rez games OR the early Unreal Tournament games. Go figure something people were doing back in the early 2000s is still a good idea, and when they were often in the same 'roomish' LAN area and could literally yell at each other.

 

I would really love to see this imported. Quick select pie controls are becoming a more popular thing lately because surprise surprise it works and quick select commands in online games have been around for ages (Team Fortress Classic/2 both had them, L4D1/2 both made them really shine, but there's loads of other examples.) See this is what I'm talking about when I said improvements to communication.

 

 

so confuzzled about the whole drummed up gender issue... doesnt DE release frames in an alternating male/female frame basis? Isnt LOTUS a female? Arent the Grineer ruled by women, and have female troops? what about DERebecca and DEMegan? The only slight that females HAD (armor rating lower than males, by 25, on that lovely Saryn) got totally removed by the whopping 300 on Valk.

 

Warframe has a surprising amount of older, wiser, richer and mature gamers. So we dont have as many immatures running around from what I have seen. Dont make issues where they dont exist. This game couldnt be anymore gender balanced if they tried. As far as underagers smack talking in local, not really a DE problem.

 

And for whomever brought up EVE Online... yea. Try playing THAT game and then complain of a learning curve lol... (btw 5 and 1/2 years, over 110m SP, Gallente all the way baby)

 

I think you skimmed the thread and invented your own idea of what's being said.

 

 

Maybe your friends aren't really your friends and don't want another channel for you to bother them? 

 

+1 for making me laugh. Nah, while I'm using a couple of personal friends as a sample group I know for a fact all these issues are echoed in other threads. I'd rather not dig out individual threads because its a chore, but they're there.

[BadPoetry]

The female frames, yes of course there are some standing points like tablehead banshee,

but the only somewhat difference you could talk about is ember with a big point-out on the hips which is the same thing just with a hat.

 

It's funny because Ember reminds me of Tauban from Star Driver, which is the signature of an overly fabulous male whose title literally translates to Galactic Prettyboy. Kind of irrelevant but yeah, there really isn't much variation in female frames, they all have the same basic body shape, which is something used to great effect as they're varied in the male frames. Sexism? Maybe all the people drooling over Saryn apply but otherwise nah, its really just oversight in design to me. I don't think Ember's chun-li thighs are sexualisation, but they are pretty much all you can say about her body shape. It's majorly bugged some people though, and I can see how it might.

 

 

Whilst i kinda agree with the OP all i keep seeing is MMO MMO MMO

 

MMO= MASSIVE multiplayer online.

 

4 players on one server does not = MASSIVE.

 

Its a TPS co-op. not a damn MMO.

 

MMO is a vague term these days. MOBAs sometimes get called MMOs. Off the subject but yeah, it's not sticking to any traditional definition of MMO, but it has RPG elements and a world populated by large amounts of players with a dynamic effect so I think "MMOTPS" or something is slightly better than just one of either term. It's not that relevant but its an interesting discussion. Use whatever fits in your mind.

[BadPoetry]

Its like going to Russia with a yamaka on. Lonely desperate men that are incapable of speaking to women like people find solace in the internet especially video games.

 

What am I reading

 

Edit: on second thoughts I really don't want to respond to this.

Edited December 28, 2013 by BadPoetry

[fro-dog]

those people you're quoting in point 4 will find any reason whatsoever to get angry about some S#&amp;&#036;ty game not adhering to tumblr standards