De, It's Time To Stop Relying On Rng Instead Of Game Design

[ZephyrPhantom]

RNG per se isn't bad.  It's the atrocious drop rates that &!$$ me off and the loot pool dilution.  What use do I have for 5 billion Slash Dashes?   I appreciate being able to sell them for credits and use them in fusion.  But, it's clogging up the loot tables.  Credit cache in survival are just a big "@(*()$ troll u" right in the face.  Right back at yah, DE.  Latron Prime BP add infinitum ...........

Thing is, if all DE keeps doing is adjusting and rescaling the drop tables, the game's still just grindy. It'd be just be a slightly less frustrating grind.

 

RNG extends gameplay time, but new content holds gameplay interest and extends gameplay time.

 

Agreed. RNG needs to be refined or gotten rid of entirely.

 

We need story, lore, interesting mechanics in fights; CONTENT. Not another melee weapon, not another frame, not a new tileset. True content; maps with real puzzles or secrets (a bit more interesting and intuitive than the orokin "secrets" that give a couple extra cabinets as a reward), bosses that force you to move like a ninja instead of standing there unloading clip after clip.

 

You know, interesting stuff.

 

We really need story and mechanics and puzzles and FUN stuff.

 

We really DON'T need another weapon, another tileset or another frame / prime thrown into the RNG pool.

 

Pls DE.

I'd love to see more gimmicky-based and puzzle maps - the gimmick doen't even have to be complicated, they could just be simple things like a defense map where Tenno can use defense turrets or something like that.(Not the Void Defense heat activated lasers, I'm talking mountable turrets with actual aiming) Small steps go a long way, especially if they can be mixed and matched.  (Come to think of it, you could possibly use the mixed Corpus/Grineer tilesets in Invasions to create several new groups of nodes, especially since there are multiple tileset variatons for both factions.)

 

Zephyr, I feel that in the short term pushing items off the incredibly stressed Void tables into the currently empty Orokin Derelict couldn't hurt at all. It relieves some pressure that has built up for far too long without a release valve.

I'm thinking, however, that it is most certainly time for DE to start creating new keys. T4-5 Void keys, and T2-3 Derelict keys. This will give them more breathing room for the tables. They need it and will continue to need it far into the forseeable future.

I'm thinking introducing the keys will need to work different then how Current Void keys are implemented. Once they've spread out the Void drops a bit and cleared up some of the congestion they could include a Reusable T4 Void Key in each T3 type. (T3 Defense could net you the T4 Defense key, which is a permanent BP) - then the keys are crafted with items that will drop in Void similar to Nav Coords. T4 Keys could net you the T5 key BP. The same could happen for Derelict. Creating a bit of a chain for players to constantly work on while farming.

The big difference past T3 (Instead of ramped up levels) could be new Void enemy types. T5 Keys could have Void Versions of almost every Factions Elite enemies present in the enemy mix, for instance. That alone would make the keys incredibly difficult without needing to be a higher level then T3's.

I do agree that that pushing loot gradually into OD does fix the problem for a bit - once OD fills up though, there had better be some new areas.

 

T4-5 Void keys also sound like a promising idea, especially if the blueprint is reusable (thus skipping the need to RNG grind it over and over again). In addition, I feel that and putting in multiple drops once you've played a mission enough (see Phobos, which drops both Miter/Gremlin and Trinity parts) could also help make the drops feel better when combined with an mixed RNG/"Play X times to get Y" model.

 

To conclude for now, I'd just like to say I agree with those in this thread saying that we should keep thread going instead of running off and starting new RNG threads when it gets frustrating again. I find this one in particular a good one to back up with all the solutions and alternative methods to expand Warframe - even if it's just a simple "+1 I like this" or "I don't like RNG and I think X will make it better.", it's worth a post here.

 

Let's make sure we keep this thread going for a while. if it lasts a long time, and gets a lot of replies, maybe DE will take a look, who knows?

Edited December 29, 2013 by ZephyrPhantom

[Meganin]

As of now DE cant get rid of RNG nor dilute the drop tables since there simply not enough content, thats why this game still in beta (even if you consider paying for stuff as a sign of a released game). It wasnt long ago mods were given per faction not per enemy, it took me 300 hours to get speed trigger, but i got 2 flow from my first terminus run, now its narrowed down and i would probably get a bunch of speed trigger from any infested mission. DE is getting there, Warframe is new for an f2p and its relatively very popular and it havent yet reached a realy small amount of its full potential. Also its worth noting that they cant simply spout large content, it has to be finely tuned, balanced and pampered before it can reach us (well that and some hotfixes).

 

tl:dr: RNG is there to patch some holes thatll be filled with content.

[Mak_Gohae]

Your logic is flawed and keeping rng as is will destroy this game. And as for your example, what point is in designing a warframe if it's locked in rng purgatory? And isn't the point of a warframe to use it? So how long it takes to obtain has nothing to do with his abilities or whatever.

 

Also rng as a system is not rewarding at all, if it was just grind you would have a clear goal to work towards. With rng it's just dumb luck, if you get everything you need in a few runs you end up feeling "wait, that's it?" or if you have to hundreds of runs to get one last prime part you will end up feeling bitter and annoyed over how much bs you had to cut trough. Rng has to go.

 

Somehow rng has not destroyed all the other rpg games that have it.

The only problem with Warframe is that there are a group of people that dont understand that this game has an rpg element in it.

[ZephyrPhantom]

Somehow rng has not destroyed all the other rpg games that have it.

The only problem with Warframe is that there are a group of people that dont understand that this game has an rpg element in it.

RNG doesn't destroy other games because it's a natural factor of basically any game - people have put up with worse RNGs than this, but that doesn't mean this one should stay bad. (see this post on the thread.)

 

The RPG elements of Warframe are a great thing, IMHO (Damage 2.0 has some potential if DE reads player feedback right) - the issue isn't that RNG should be removed, it's that RNG needs to be fixed and that RNG drops shouldn't be solely what this game is about. (As it currently is, once your clear the galaxy map all that's left to do is grind levels and hope the drop tables won't ruin your day. Other games tend to have replay value, extended/new areas, more side missions, etc..., but all DE has done so far is to rework existing areas and push drops from one area to a harder area, most notably Volt and Trinity.)

Edited December 30, 2013 by ZephyrPhantom

[bejuizb]

Reading threads like these on an almost daily basis is frankly scaring me a bit. Back when I started on the forums in May, it was chock full of people praising DE and complimenting them for adding new and innovative items and frames like Dojos, Clantech Weapons, Vauban and things of the sort. Seeing the state of the community now is kind of terrifying to me. I don't want this game to die yet. I just hope that this is a phase and that we all can work towards making Warframe as awesome as it was at the start of the year.

[JackPS9]

I have a founder friend and my drops for Nekros and Trinity were a hell of alot faster then his.
I got all three blueprints for both in 3 runs total for each warframe so saying that founders get better chances is sad.

[Xrylene]

I have a founder friend and my drops for Nekros and Trinity were a hell of alot faster then his.

I got all three blueprints for both in 3 runs total for each warframe so saying that founders get better chances is sad.

 

That isn't at all what I was saying or implying. Founders have the same chances to get drops as anyone else.

 

What I'm saying is that founders should be speaking up more about issues like these, because if DE respects them as much as they claim to, then they should realize there is a problem when the people who helped fund their game are getting upset.

 

 

As of now DE cant get rid of RNG nor dilute the drop tables since there simply not enough content, thats why this game still in beta (even if you consider paying for stuff as a sign of a released game). It wasnt long ago mods were given per faction not per enemy, it took me 300 hours to get speed trigger, but i got 2 flow from my first terminus run, now its narrowed down and i would probably get a bunch of speed trigger from any infested mission. DE is getting there, Warframe is new for an f2p and its relatively very popular and it havent yet reached a realy small amount of its full potential. Also its worth noting that they cant simply spout large content, it has to be finely tuned, balanced and pampered before it can reach us (well that and some hotfixes).

 

tl:dr: RNG is there to patch some holes thatll be filled with content.

 

The reason for this thread is to point that very thing out. The fact that they are using RNG to act as filler instead of actual content, and how that needs to stop if they want to keep the game going. What DE needs to do, is in the short term ease up the RNG a bit, and begin pumping out gameplay and lore improvements for the next while. As the gameplay improves, they can remove more and more RNG.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Xrylene

[General_Krull]

Reading threads like these on an almost daily basis is frankly scaring me a bit. Back when I started on the forums in May, it was chock full of people praising DE and complimenting them for adding new and innovative items and frames like Dojos, Clantech Weapons, Vauban and things of the sort. Seeing the state of the community now is kind of terrifying to me. I don't want this game to die yet. I just hope that this is a phase and that we all can work towards making Warframe as awesome as it was at the start of the year.

When people stop making these kinds of threads you should be worried. ONce these threads stop it means there are no more people left who are willing to help make this game better. When critical/feedback threads end the game is truly dead.

[Eisen]

I'm a founder and I can assure you I have no weight at all, none of us do, they already have our money.

[Penthos]

I have a few things I would like to say here.

This entire game is built around RNG, which is an incredibly poor design choice on the part of DE. Without it's existence, they literally have a game with no replay value. People will get what they want in no time, and then realize afterwards that this game has poor lore and miserably repetitive gameplay.

DE still, at this point barely even has a game. They have content and game modes, but nothing explaining what the hell is going on and no real sense of progression. Progression in this game is you pick a gun and a frame, level it, then move on to the next. Rinse and repeat. CoD has more progression than this, and this constant repetition against the same enemies over and over gets boring.

Their events that are supposed to offer some lore fall short for me every time due to it being some little thing that is just "Hey you want some lore?! Have this! Also, here's some more grinding to go with it!". Who are the Corpus and the Grineer? Do all planets and moons of the same faction work together? What the hell is Lotus? What the hell are Tenno? Do we actually have eyes? What really happened to Earth? Where are all these civilians we supposedly protect but are hated by? What are the Infested really? Are we sorcerers with all this magic?

Playing it now, for me, just feels like a chore and I am on the brink of quitting for a second time because as far as enjoyment goes there is none. The space ninja perks only go so far without a story or variation in gameplay. Just grind grind grind, that is it. DE do something new instead of making strict content updates!

For anyone who wants to cry beta, I have played quite a few OB games and this has to be the most lore starved game I have ever played. Just saying. If you want to compare this to any FPS also, the fun lies with the PVP in those, and not in weak and predictable AI.

Bottom Line:
Do I agree with the OP? 100,000,000% YES!...and then some...

DE focuses on RNG and grinding way too much, and their game falls short in the long run with a slew of other issues because of it.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Penthos

[CicaedaV]

being a founder just lets you have some influence over decisions when they want you to. What founders really was a more platinum for your buck kinda deal.

 

 

i hate the RNG too. I have got 27 forma blueprints in one week from doing tower 1-3 captures, only got one orthos prime blade (that i don't want). Everytime i do a survival of any type, i get more credits than i do cores or items or rare mods. This game is nearly 95% free to play, i get that but RNG really has to go.

[SilentCynic]

Warframe is a Skinner box, pure and simple. While I do receive some enjoyment from the vicious, brutal playstyle and the animations that are quite well done for an F2P title, it's basically just the same thing ad nauseum.

 

And why should they change? People seem to buy into this ceaseless, unrepentant grind wholesale, with many individuals coughing up $100-250 for a fancy name tag and the illusion of assisting development beyond the most superficial of levels. And don't forget about the Prime Pack, which many of the Grand Masters I know bought as well (Though I'll hardly use happenstance as an argument.)

 

RNG needs to go, for the survival, prosperity and development of this title, but you are kidding yourself if you think it will. RNG is a cheap, fast way to keep people busy, and the longer people play, it stands to reason they'll eventually drop some cash into the system. DE knows that the playerbase slices through content with efficiency and maximization, so expect more RNG and grind, not less. Case in point being Nekros and Orokin Derelicts.

 

If we could access them without keys and such, everyone would have played all the variations, farmed Nekros in under two hours and been done with it. Hell, even with all the grinding and key-crafting, I got my Nekros within five or so hours of play, and I'm an awful player. It boils down to keeping the player busy for X hours per Y amount of development time to hopefully provide $Z.

 

I grinded (ground?) Banshee, Orthos Prime, Frost Prime, Mag Prime, tons of frames and gear and resources, XP and levels for weapons I loathe and would never have been forced to use otherwise, etc. Grinding for Ember Prime finally broke me, and while I'll keep an eye on the forums, I cannot go back to this thing.

[DJ_Redwire]

What I'm saying is that founders should be speaking up more about issues like these, because if DE respects them as much as they claim to, then they should realize there is a problem when the people who helped fund their game are getting upset.

 

In the Design Council there is no place for us to discuss the content that DE puts up there for us to see without simply tagging along to the threads that have the content in them themselves (which is obviously not very efficient from a collaborative standpoint) nor is there anywhere in the DC for us to post our own suggestions for additions/changes/fixes/etc without simply spraying it all over the rest of the forums in hopes someone might read it just like everyone else - that should give you an idea of how much say we have as founders.

[grindfarmframe]

Honestly this is exactly why all of my friends and clanmates stopped playing. Were a FPS multigaming community with over 160 active members in 5 games.

Twas fun for awhile, but you expect more from something labeled "sci-fi thirdperson" shooter

Seems like this is what DE envisioned tho, so guess you jus have to play a bit b4 you realize what this game isnt...a shooter game.

[BETAOPTICS]

Like it or not this game is rng grind based. Don't like it? find another game to play.

So just because we have criticism towards a too abused mechanic, we should find another game? We might just as well the same to you since you like RNG but it doesn't make it a valid argument from either side. Not only this but if the developers would be this toxic and stubborn, knowing that most of the players on the forums seem to hate RNG as a whole and I think it most likely means that the basic playerbase will say the same if asked. So it is bad thing to say that in general, it is ignorant to say the least. Even worse if you are the developer in a game because if you disrespect the playerbase, you are doing nothing more than setting of your games death sentence and I have seen game developers be like that and guess what, yeah their game died pretty soon.

" Don't like it? Don't play it " - pffft, I laugh at how poor this argument is, no offense.

[spacedkadet]

The problem is that the game is here already, there are people who have been playing for along time and have all the content done (myself included), so lets say they scrap rng, add some more content (which would take months of work) then what? We go through it in weeks and get left with nothing?

 I see nothing in this thread that constitutes a viable solution to the issue. The only way i could see it happening is if they just shut down the game, spent 6months+ redesigning it from the ground up then reset all accounts back to 0 to put everyone back on an even playing field.

 The game is here and this is what it's built on, I would suggest they try to improve current systems yes, but remove rng? not possible.

[BETAOPTICS]

As of now DE cant get rid of RNG nor dilute the drop tables since there simply not enough content, thats why this game still in beta (even if you consider paying for stuff as a sign of a released game). It wasnt long ago mods were given per faction not per enemy, it took me 300 hours to get speed trigger, but i got 2 flow from my first terminus run, now its narrowed down and i would probably get a bunch of speed trigger from any infested mission. DE is getting there, Warframe is new for an f2p and its relatively very popular and it havent yet reached a realy small amount of its full potential. Also its worth noting that they cant simply spout large content, it has to be finely tuned, balanced and pampered before it can reach us (well that and some hotfixes).

 

tl:dr: RNG is there to patch some holes that.

 

Exactly and now it is time to start filling that hole, it is not too tight after all.

 

Reading threads like these on an almost daily basis is frankly scaring me a bit. Back when I started on the forums in May, it was chock full of people praising DE and complimenting them for adding new and innovative items and frames like Dojos, Clantech Weapons, Vauban and things of the sort. Seeing the state of the community now is kind of terrifying to me. I don't want this game to die yet. I just hope that this is a phase and that we all can work towards making Warframe as awesome as it was at the start of the year.

Most likely this is the case, since Warframe grew quicker and became more popular than DE expected and now with the deal with Sony, it is even harder to fulfill everyones expectations as the game has grown rapidly. I see no sign of this game dying even if the forums now are fulfilled with threads about the much needed revolution this game needs due to it's state. I'm well sure that if DE plays their cards right, this is just a phase and soon we will get what everyone is basically asking for. It shouldn't be too hard and Damage 2.0 was the first sign of the game getting better foundation and everyone expects they now continue in reworking the foundation overhaul, RNG included.

 

 

I have a founder friend and my drops for Nekros and Trinity were a hell of alot faster then his.

I got all three blueprints for both in 3 runs total for each warframe so saying that founders get better chances is sad.

No we don't, you just got lucky which only shows how flawed the RNG is in a sense. It can be that or it can be a living hell to a player depending on luck. Some fear that giving players some relief due to changes in the way we might get the rewards in the future make all the content too easy to get but this is just another case to show how bad argument that is because it can already be so regardless. As long as you get lucky that is.

EDIT: Deleted and merged my spam to one post.

Edited December 30, 2013 by BETAOPTICS

[Blatantfool]

Yes but the difference here is that there isn't much other than the RNG, farming and grinding. Borderlands reminds this game in a sense but it has so much more to offer that it get's away from this and you can freely trade everything there so you have a good chance to experience all the content regardless. Now I'm not blaming DE here that they have to get rid of RNG all together, it indeed is hard but if they are going to keep it this way then it will be problematic because right now this is all we have so it is more visible for players and because of that, it has a greater impact on players than on other games that pose that kind of mechanic. Even in them, if you realize it, it generally is not a good feature though currently it seems to be a necessary one for some reason.

I agree that the move to include some gear in Orokin Derelicts was a good move but let's take a estimation from two years from now on. There are 300 different weapons or easily more and over 30 Warframes to choose from and every item has a Prime version too. Now we still have two modes with maybe 15 game modes at max to go along with them and the same drop chances and reward system, I mean one part reward at a time. Can you see the increasing problem? I can it doesn't look good, this is why there needs to be action and I would rather do that action now than when it is too late.

 

 This is perfectly true. Currently all that there is to do in-game is progress and 100% of progression is grinding gear up. I'm not gonna deny that.

 

  And yes, I do think of that as a beast DE needs to slay. Perhaps instanced missions to work as a story?? (Think Dungeons in most other MMO. I actually think this will be the correct course of action for Storytelling.) That approach would allow DE to give actual love and attention to lore that players can't simply miss because they didn't happen to be around for the event.

 

  Borderlands isn't quite as RNG heavy as Warframe. It has a story to tell and lots of little things besides progression you can screw about with. If you've even spent 5 minutes finding and uncovering a Borderlands easter egg or just wandering a map because you haven't seen it all then you've got a fairly good idea the kind of thing I mean. It'll be important for DE to try to get some of that in Warframe eventually too.

 

 Now, just to be clear, I say 'eventually' because it is true DE is still sitting on a game in the midst of a long Beta and there are mountains of other things to work on too - but as far as I'm concerned I'd love to see it ASAP.  I know for a fact it can be done and I'd be willing to bet DE could make it work.

 

 

 As for the recent swap to Derelicts - like I said to Zephyr earlier - Right now that was a good move. It wont work forever. The key system will need to be either reworked or drastically expanded very soon if they're going to continue adding Orokin tier gear to the game.

[ZephyrPhantom]

Warframe is a Skinner box, pure and simple. While I do receive some enjoyment from the vicious, brutal playstyle and the animations that are quite well done for an F2P title, it's basically just the same thing ad nauseum.

 

And why should they change? People seem to buy into this ceaseless, unrepentant grind wholesale, with many individuals coughing up $100-250 for a fancy name tag and the illusion of assisting development beyond the most superficial of levels. And don't forget about the Prime Pack, which many of the Grand Masters I know bought as well (Though I'll hardly use happenstance as an argument.)

 

RNG needs to go, for the survival, prosperity and development of this title, but you are kidding yourself if you think it will. RNG is a cheap, fast way to keep people busy, and the longer people play, it stands to reason they'll eventually drop some cash into the system. DE knows that the playerbase slices through content with efficiency and maximization, so expect more RNG and grind, not less. Case in point being Nekros and Orokin Derelicts.

 

If we could access them without keys and such, everyone would have played all the variations, farmed Nekros in under two hours and been done with it. Hell, even with all the grinding and key-crafting, I got my Nekros within five or so hours of play, and I'm an awful player. It boils down to keeping the player busy for X hours per Y amount of development time to hopefully provide $Z.

 

I grinded (ground?) Banshee, Orthos Prime, Frost Prime, Mag Prime, tons of frames and gear and resources, XP and levels for weapons I loathe and would never have been forced to use otherwise, etc. Grinding for Ember Prime finally broke me, and while I'll keep an eye on the forums, I cannot go back to this thing.

It should change because it's pretty clear we've got ideas on how to make the game and fun more interesting. Improvements never hurt anyone.

 

Also, I think that DE's response to the need to change RNG (or lack thereof) will show how much they really pay attention to the community, IMHO - if they want a good game that the community enjoys (and will still pay for), they'll change it. If they want a cash farm that people will eventually quit due to realizing it's just a grind, they won't.

 

And again, this isn't as simple as 'lets remove RNG because of all the trouble its causing'. See below.

 

The problem is that the game is here already, there are people who have been playing for along time and have all the content done (myself included), so lets say they scrap rng, add some more content (which would take months of work) then what? We go through it in weeks and get left with nothing?

 I see nothing in this thread that constitutes a viable solution to the issue. The only way i could see it happening is if they just shut down the game, spent 6months+ redesigning it from the ground up then reset all accounts back to 0 to put everyone back on an even playing field.

 The game is here and this is what it's built on, I would suggest they try to improve current systems yes, but remove rng? not possible.

Less focus on RNG =/= removal of RNG. I'm going to stress this point once more that our goal should be more content in parts of the game that lack it (just quickly pulling from this thread alone: lore, map, more nodes, world hub, evolution of existing frames and mechanics, etc...) and replay value - sure, you can chuck in thousands of new areas but what's the point when no one wants to go back and do them again? (Nightmare Mode is a good example of making people wanting to replay things, but we need more focus on that increased difficulty than the rare mods it drops.) Now granted, as Blatantfool pointed out for me, it'll work as a temporary patch to these issues, but a patch isn't a full fix.

 

I do think this and the post about "frames evolving" makes a good point, though - in addition to more content, there should be a way to make the old things fresh again besides grinding for more mods and slapping on a potato/helmet/forma. Give us cues on our frames that they're becoming stronger/more notable or varied as they level- heck, maybe just a simple plain "level Syandana"  or even an alternative 1st ability as small steps. (Ideally, I'd love to see something that gives players a reason to take Excalibur to high level play and contribute in their own way aside from that one Radial Blind build that is arguably a better Bastille if done right. Dropping Excalibur Prime in the Void shouldn't count for obvious reasons.)  Give us more varied and frequent 'Nightmare Modes' where we can choose the disadvantages given to us - maybe one player's a Vampire, the other loses his energy constantly, and the team works as a whole to make sure their selected disadvantages don't trip each other up. (Similar idea : See Halo's Skulls, or arguably even our own OD Vault Keys). Instead of making guns that will end up being straight-up better versions of others ones (Karak > Braton being a recent example), make some visual gun accessories for some of the earlier-game weapons like Braton or Lato that can potentially make them as viable in high-level play as a Soma and a Vasto(s). (Not necessarily the -best- like Soma or Vasto(s) are, just -viable-.)

 

Again, I can go on all day, but these are just some of the few solutions that could add the feel of more content that A) Isn't RNG-based and B) Add yet another take on 'new-content' that isn't just straight-up new weapons. (I don't say yet frames because frames still remain pretty diverse, though Oberon and the Ember's Overheat ->Accelerant change walk an iffy line in that 'diversity' factor.)

 

Also, just a side thought : If the paid parts of the game are becoming a drag, shouldn't it be as simple as not paying money for the game until DE fixes what's wrong with it? We're the people they're catering to, not the other way around.

Edited December 30, 2013 by ZephyrPhantom

[Spavioli]

Signed Fix the drop tables 

 

Step 1 i just sold 32 Orthos handles with no ember prime part dropped work it out 16+ hours of grinding and still no drop Seriously we need something thats going to work step 1 fix the drop tables then Move onto step 2. and i agree that should be story and lore the cinematic videos for thjis game make me lush 32 orthos handles make me dry :(

[Angius]

Here, have 100th upvote.

 

I was saying this multiple times.
Like A LOT of times

 

GODDAMN TOKEN SYSTEM

Especially for Void rewards.

 

I don't care about mods being random. That's perfectly fine with me.

 

I don't even care about Warframe Parts from Bosses being random. That's fine, 'cause we got guaranteed part from every run, not like it used to be - dozens of runs with nothing, and next three runs giving you your 20th helmet and still no systems.

 

However, the Void.

I don't know who thought, that making weapons, which require randomly generated parts from overfilled drop tables, which you can acquire doing ones of the hardest missions in game, which you can't controll which mission youu'll do because there's another RNG barrier - acquiring keys, which are hidden in another overfilled droptables will be a good and fun idea.

 

It's a bad idea and you should feel bad. It's like the opposite of what "fun" means.

Look into a dictionary under "fun", you'll see "antonym: farming Prime weapons"

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

Maybe they simply should add some expensive item purchased with credits that allows you to get massively increased drop chance of a specific item.

TBH I would not have bought Prime access if anyone could reasonably get the contents. I could care less about half-insane hermits with no life who will eventually farm anything.

 

Accessory idea is funny though. Imagine if we could create an infested attachment for MK-1 Braton in clan biolab that can make it more powerful than Soma?

Also, I think you're kidding yourself about the beta. They offer the game on PS4 as a full game, clearly they consider it release among themselves.

[(PSN)lsu4life86]

you think its bad on PC? At least yall get content updates frequently. We are stuck with the same stuff for much longer. For those who have progressed through most/all of the game it gets old real quick.

[BETAOPTICS]

you think its bad on PC? At least yall get content updates frequently. We are stuck with the same stuff for much longer. For those who have progressed through most/all of the game it gets old real quick.

This has little to do with the topic itself. Truth been told it is true for now but at some point you will catch up on us if DE succeeds so eventually this isn't even true argument even if the topic would be this, which it isn't and just because you have it worse right now doesn't make it not a bad thing on PC either. Edited December 30, 2013 by BETAOPTICS

[sedu13]

I'm going to say it, and while not everyone will agree with me, some might even find this offensive, but I think it needs to be said:

 

Warframe is pretty much a decade old project. While it has been put in the backburner many times, DE has always kept it around as their goal. It's been in a beta for more than a year and has been released in 2 platforms. The community always provides feedback, telling what DE got right, what is wrong and how DE can fix it.

 

And if I was involved in a 10 year old game, that has been in a beta for 1 year and some extra, with a passionate community that wants the game to be successful and my game was still in this sorry &#! state, I'd just be ashamed of myself,