Let's Talk About Machine Guns

[DCypherThis13]

It seems to me that at least once a week someone asks for a true machine gun.

 

Gorgon, Soma and Supra are not machine guns in their function. They fit better into the chain-gun or mini-gun mold. A true machine gun does not have to spool up to achieve it's maximum fire rate.

 

That brings up two questions in my mind.

 

1. Can I have a LMG(Light Machine Gun)? Well, we already have those. Take Boltor/Braton/Dera for example; mod it for magazine size and fire rate. There you go. Though, honestly I would not complain if a dedicated LMG was introduced.

 

2. What about a HMG(Heavy Machine Gun)? We don't have one. You use mods to get close, but it's still not quite there. There is no weapon that can fill that role.

 

This is where my idea comes in. I've been working on it and making little tweaks here and there for months. I have also posted this concept in a few threads along the way.

 

I would like to see a HMG. I want something with punch, accuracy and belt fed.

 

Name:                         *surprise me*

Type:                           Machine Gun

Damage:                      50

Damage Type:             18 Impact/20 Puncture/12 Slash

Projectile Speed:         Hit-Scan

Fire Rate:                    4.0

Accuracy:                    16(I still don't know what these numbers mean, but this weapon needs to be accurate)

Trigger:                        Automatic or Select-Fire?

Magazine:                    Belt-Fed

Reload:                        0(draws from a belt feed system, reloading is not necessary)

Critical Hit Chance:      2.5%

Critical Hit Damage:     150%

Status:                         25%(No, that's not a mistake.)

 

Other notes...

 

There is no spool-up. You cannot aim down the sights and there is no zoom. This one is hip fire only, it's a truly HEAVY weapon. The recoil should be mid-range, manageable, but not insane. The sheer mass of this weapon soaks up a lot of the recoil energy. I'm using recoil in place of a reduced accuracy because a skilled shooter will be able to get the most out of each round. Possible reduction in movement speed when firing? This weapon can overheat under extreme use, which can reduce the fire rate and accuracy greatly or start a cool down of 45 seconds(affected by fire rate mods), during that time the weapon will not fire. If you do run out of ammo, there is a 15+ second reload which requires you to be stationary. This weapon will use Rifle Mods and Ammo Pool.

 

Because there is no zoom, the RMB can be used for another function. Perhaps this is a good opportunity to try out a select-fire system? 3 round burst, 10 round burst and fully automatic...

[DiBBz]

you do realize that the gorgon/supra/soma etc are HMG's right ?

 

any other weapon that does not carry over 75+ rounds (default) is a LMG or AR or HAR or hell maybe we can see Bullpop rifles

[Morgax]

When did LMGs were accurate especcially when you run around with them and parkour?

 

25% status is a bit too much for a rapid firing gun, same with reload,

 

maybe balance it out with something let's say the gun barrel can overheat and needs to cool down if you use it too much?

 

Reload is part of every gun, LMGs usually have slower reloading mechanism, golden chance to use that fast hands mod.

[Archistopheles]

Heaven forbid that DE thinks outside of the terms and regulations of real world weaponry...

 

The stug goo gun is obviously based on the German world war 2 rifle, right?

Edited December 29, 2013 by Archistopheles

[DCypherThis13]

When did LMGs were accurate especcially when you run around with them and parkour?

 

25% status is a bit too much for a rapid firing gun, same with reload,

 

maybe balance it out with something let's say the gun barrel can overheat and needs to cool down if you use it too much?

 

Reload is part of every gun, LMGs usually have slower reloading mechanism, golden chance to use that fast hands mod.

I did... Please read the paragraph beneath the "Other Notes" header.

[DCypherThis13]

Heaven forbid that DE thinks outside of the terms and regulations of real world weaponry...

 

The stug goo gun is obviously based on the German world war 2 rifle, right?

Not a German rifle, but toxic and sticky goo bombs were experimented with by the Germans in WW1 along with Chlorine and Mustard gas...

[DCypherThis13]

you do realize that the gorgon/supra/soma etc are HMG's right ?

 

any other weapon that does not carry over 75+ rounds (default) is a LMG or AR or HAR or hell maybe we can see Bullpop rifles

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you on that one. Gorgon, Supra and Soma are more like recoil or gas operated Gatling guns/rifles. I will agree that Gorgon and Supra do fall into the heavy category, but Soma is just too easy to use to be a heavy weapon.

 

The magazine capacity of a rifle does not define whether or not it is a machine gun. Most modern(real life) ARs have optional 60-150 round magazines available.

[KF5AQX]

 

The magazine capacity of a rifle does not define whether or not it is a machine gun. Most modern(real life) ARs have optional 60-150 round magazines available.

 

 

You forgot the part where those are only used when the rifle is in it's LMG role, usually fitted with a heavier barrel, a bipod, and typically a carrying handle.

 

Face it guys, the Gorgon and Soma ARE LMGs, even if you don't like it.

[DCypherThis13]

You forgot the part where those are only used when the rifle is in it's LMG role, usually fitted with a heavier barrel, a bipod, and typically a carrying handle.

 

Face it guys, the Gorgon and Soma ARE LMGs, even if you don't like it.

Why does a 150 round mag fit in a standard AR/AK? Why don't you have to change the barrel after 75+ rounds?

 

Why do our "so called" machine guns have to spool up to be effective? Real life machine guns don't spool up, they just shoot until the barrel over-heats and explodes.

[Makya]

Why do our "so called" machine guns have to spool up to be effective? Real life machine guns don't spool up, they just shoot until the barrel over-heats and explodes.

Because DE said so. :-|

[Rengakun]

Why does a 150 round mag fit in a standard AR/AK? Why don't you have to change the barrel after 75+ rounds?

 

Why do our "so called" machine guns have to spool up to be effective? Real life machine guns don't spool up, they just shoot until the barrel over-heats and explodes.

Because it's a Video Game.

 

Also, you do know that Gatlings are considered MGs, right? The M134 can't fire without spooling up. Though you said "True" MG, and that's kinda ambiguous, so I won't argue with that.

 

 

Now, on to your concept, this is the wrong subforum for that (Concepts go into Fan Concepts), but 'tis a great idea.

 

Perhaps the HMG would take up the Primary and Melee weapon slots and the RMB would fire a 50-shot burst in under half a second with a huge spread? And that firerate of 4 round/s is sad. Even a M2 Browning does 8-10 round/s.

[Kyphe]

Whats this about the soma being an LMG?

 

Its the teno version of the grakata, a crit build sub machine gun.

 

GPMGs (medium MGs) fire rifle rounds or bigger while modern HMGs fire rounds tipically comparable to high caliber sniper rifles, sub machine guns generally fire pistol rounds and there is not a pistol in the game which does less base damage per shot than the soma.

 

I think the supra is GPMG doing aproximatly the latrons rifle caliber damage per shot and is as heavy as things are going to get, that is a gun that really needs to on a tripod to hit anything by more than random luck.

 

The gorgon is the only LMG in game right now.

 

The most to hope for would be a more accurate medium MG like a fully auto latron but it would need balance so no more than 40 damage with a low ROF of 4 but no spool, allowing an accuracy of 12 which is better than both aklex and akvasto.

 

maybe 70 round belt as the low ROF would make it last a long time anyway and less total ammo than the gorgon as the rounds are bigger.

 

I mean yeah you could have a HMG but it would need to use sniper ammo and have huge recoil and slow you to a walk when firing.

 

If you want to fire an accurate 43 points of damage at 3.3 fire rate constantly with almost no reload you nead kunai

[WhiskeyGolf]

The whole thing about the Soma being an LMG is because it fires rifle rounds, has a 100 round mag, and looks like the old Cauchat machine gun, which is what today we would class as an LMG (despite only having a 30 round mag IRL).

[Kyphe]

The Grakata fires the same rifle rounds and so does the flux which does not even fire bullets lol to name but a few. Grak also has a 60 rnd mag but everyone knows its an SMG and the soma is the teno version of that.

 

This is the Chauchat-Ribeyrolles Sub Machine Gun btw.

All it needs is a wireframe buttstock

 

The chauchat auto rifle (LMG) was much longer than the soma, longer even than the Gorgon IRL

 

The Chauchat Automatic Rifle is generally considerd a royal turd it was that bad

Edited December 30, 2013 by Kyphe

[Zedera]

I don't foresee this being implemented, to be honest. A heavy spray-and-pray autocannon with no zoom, movement speed reduction, and hip-fire only, but compensated for with high accuracy, damage numbers, and overheat instead of reload is a whole other beast in terms of balance in comparison to the usual guns in the game. Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to see a rifle-type weapon with a slow automatic RoF with the sexy sound effects and healthy kick to make you feel that you're holding a true mother of all weapons in your hands.

 

Firstly, I don't see no zoom as a correct way to compensate for the sheer strength of not having to worry about reload due to belt-fed mechanism. In a game about space ninjas, I believe zoom to be one way for players to differentiate between each other in terms of playstyle and skill, especially regarding hit-scan weapons. Taking that away reduces the depth and complexity involved in using on of these weapons and, when coupled with a belt-fed mechanism, turns it into a spray-and-pray sort of weapon with immense power that could go unchecked in the hands of even the least skilled player. I strongly believe that reload speed and clip size should be used as limiting factors for such a beast, and that zoom should be kept for players who want to abuse the high damage per round to nail some headshots, while retaining the automatic capability of this weapon for other situations.

 

The overheat mechanism might be a decent alternative way to compensate for being belt-fed, but in all honesty, I think the current clip size and reload system is adequate to the purposes of a machine gun, heavy or not, and designing a whole new way to limit endless firing that rather clumsily attempts to achieve the same end result seems rather too much effort for so little reward. 45 seconds of not using a primary weapon during overheat? Reduced by fire rate? The mod system is strained as it is without making some mods utterly useless for a potentially nice gun. Another reason why I say stick to the current reloading system. And the situations in which you might overheat tend to be the ones that you don't have 45 seconds to twiddle around with a secondary and a melee. I don't know about you, but if I wanted to bring a gun like this to a fight, my sidearm would probably be a Magnus or some long-range gun to complement the up-close power of this gun, and that's not what I want to switch to in a crowded room just because I held the fire button a little too long. And 15 seconds immobile to reload a gun after picking up more ammo? Heavens forbid. Do you like standing still in Warframe for 15 seconds, particularly if you're not invisible, particularly if you're alone, and not invisible?

 

In fact, I find your own limitations on your gun's use to be rather silly. Reduced movement speed when firing? I am altogether against this. In a game that's supposed to reward mobility and parkour, a gun that slows your movement kills the pacing of the action by turning you from a space ninja into a turret. And depending on your frame, an extremely squishy turret at that. The sum of all these flaws you have imposed on your gun to balance out its sheer power have turned it into at once an overpowered gun in some situations and an extremely cumbersome and potentially very unpopular gun to use in others. I'm not saying you ought to make your gun comform to other guns in every possible way. But rather make a gun that is able to bring out what makes it fun to use without such fun-killing restrictions.

 

Basically, I see your concept in the way you outlined it as having no place in Warframe, but that aspects of your gun which are sorely lacking from the game would be nice to see. Just because this game is missing a certain weapon type, doesn't mean that weapon type must invariably find its way into the game in its original form. Here's still hoping to a heavy automatic weapon. Something more like the Sobek of rifles, perhaps.